Recruitment

scaredofgirls · Sep 12, 2008

Hello,

We used a recruitment agency to recruit a sales person.
For this pleasure we have to pay 3k to the recruitment agency
It's now over the discount period if we sack him, yet he still hasnt performed as per the job description given to the recruitment agency to source this person.

He has had training etc, and support, but has developed this back problem (apparently from an earlier health issue) that means he keeps missing days off.. i.e 6 days off in 6 weeks.

He hasnt performed to his sales targets either.

Any advice? is there any case where we can get out of the recruitment fee?.. if we all agree?

any help /ideas etc would be appreciated.

Richie N · Sep 12, 2008

Hi

Did you pay the agency fee within the agencies payment terms?

officeangel · Sep 12, 2008

Well, it could be the case that you're stuck, but you could negotiate with the agency given the fact that the person really hasn't worked out. It really does depend on a few things.

Did you sign and therefore agree to the agency's terms?
How long did their rebate period last and how far outside of it are you?
What do their terms say about rebates/free replacements if things go wrong?
Have you at any stage given the agency a call to say ... erm things aren't going well here?
Are they an agency that you know well, or have a good relationship with?
Have you already paid the fee?
And if you have already paid, did you pay on time and within the period that would qualify you for a rebate?

If you can answer all of those I would be happy to give you some ideas on how to go back to the agency, but I wouldn't like to say with any great enthusiasm that you will get your fee back.

officeangel · Sep 12, 2008

And whilst I think about it ... what do their terms of business say they will actually do for their money?? Do they agreed to take up references or is that your domain??

yorkshirejames · Sep 12, 2008

I imagine in reality that they will agree to find you a replacement person gratis - if they want to keep a good reputation with you that is.

sjbeale · Sep 12, 2008

If the employee is no good despite all the support and training you have given him then you need to dismiss asap and long before 12 months service.

scaredofgirls · Sep 12, 2008

Hello, Thank you for your all your replies

The referencing was down to us - as they said it was a data protection issue?! (its rullion recruitment btw)
Anyway, our references came back ok, particularly the days off sick questions in the form. 0 Days.

We have not yet paid the recruitment fee, its due next week for payment.
We havent yet said to the agency that we are unhappy.. as Im lookin for advice from these forums first.

Thanks.

officeangel · Sep 12, 2008

As you haven't paid the fee, you're actually in a strong position to negotiate.

Most agencies will listen to what clients have to say, especially if they're unhappy and things haven't worked out. My guess is their first offer will be to replace free of charge, and the second will be for you to pay a reduced fee.

What's happened here isn't actually the agency's fault, nor your own. Sometimes hires just don't work. And to get the best chance of negotiating your way out of the fee that's the stance I would advise you to take.

I would still like to have lots more information to be able to properly advise you on how to negotiate, particularly whether or not you signed their terms of business. And it would be ideal to get a look at the terms of business, whether you signed it or not.

I'm hopeful they will negotiate, but do please bear in mind that they will probably feel they have done what they said they would and they could go for the fee come hell or high water.

I am sorry to say that my own profession isn't always the most ethical or forward thinking.

One of the real legal eagles will be along shortly I'm sure to tell you where you stand from a purely legal point of view. And also to help you negotiate.

Richie N · Sep 12, 2008

scaredofgirls said:
Hello, Thank you for your all your replies

The referencing was down to us - as they said it was a data protection issue?! (its rullion recruitment btw)
Anyway, our references came back ok, particularly the days off sick questions in the form. 0 Days.

We have not yet paid the recruitment fee, its due next week for payment.
We havent yet said to the agency that we are unhappy.. as Im lookin for advice from these forums first.

Thanks.

What are the actual payment terms on the terms of business?

I would contact the agency immediately and notify them of your concerns.

Richie N · Sep 12, 2008

officeangel said:
As you haven't paid the fee, you're actually in a strong position to negotiate.

Most agencies will listen to what clients have to say, especially if they're unhappy and things haven't worked out. My guess is their first offer will be to replace free of charge, and the second will be for you to pay a reduced fee.

What's happened here isn't actually the agency's fault, nor your own. Sometimes hires just don't work. And to get the best chance of negotiating your way out of the fee that's the stance I would advise you to take.

I would still like to have lots more information to be able to properly advise you on how to negotiate, particularly whether or not you signed their terms of business. And it would be ideal to get a look at the terms of business, whether you signed it or not.

I'm hopeful they will negotiate, but do please bear in mind that they will probably feel they have done what they said they would and they could go for the fee come hell or high water.

I am sorry to say that my own profession isn't always the most ethical or forward thinking.

One of the real legal eagles will be along shortly I'm sure to tell you where you stand from a purely legal point of view. And also to help you negotiate.

Officeangel are you in recruitment?

I would actually say they are not in a good position to negotiate if the invoice has not been paid within the payment terms, unless there is a good business relationship.

If you used other sources to recruit, such as a newspaper, would you ask the newspaper company for money back if the staff recruited via this source did not work out?

yorkshirejames · Sep 15, 2008

scaredofgirls said:
Hello, Thank you for your all your replies

The referencing was down to us - as they said it was a data protection issue?! (its rullion recruitment btw)

This agency are lax on their referencing procedures. I know of a (foreign - think Australian) worker who worked through them for a time, and they called up six months later asking for a copy of the workers' passport for their records.

How on earth is it a DP issue - agencies (certainly for temp work) are required to reference the worker - as virtually all agencies do employment business & employment agency work (i.e. temp and perm) they should in reality reference all workers.

Or are they saying that they have an adverse reference, but refuse to share _that_ with you due to data protection.

Don't pay their invoice, and keep well away in the future. Let them take you to court if they want - they will have to prove the quality of their merchandise.

yorkshirejames · Sep 15, 2008

Richie01 said:
If you used other sources to recruit, such as a newspaper, would you ask the newspaper company for money back if the staff recruited via this source did not work out?

You're not comparing apples with apples. The newspaper provide an advert. The recruitment agent are supposed to provide screened, vetted, qualified candidates - to save TIME in wading through speculative CVs.

Richie N · Sep 15, 2008

yorkshirejames said:
You're not comparing apples with apples. The newspaper provide an advert. The recruitment agent are supposed to provide screened, vetted, qualified candidates - to save TIME in wading through speculative CVs.

The agency has provided the right candidate, the end decision is with the employer and it is also the duty for the employer to obtain references as well.
Without paying the invoice within the agency payment terms, they really do not have a leg to stand on, as its a binding contract.

officeangel · Sep 15, 2008

Yes I'm in recruitment and have been for more years than I care to think about.

You're right Richie, legally and technically if there is is no come back on the terms of business then the invoice should be paid.

But if I had an unhappy client I wouldn't simply say pay up I've done my bit. Even though I could do so according to my terms. Negotiating could be a way of both parties continuing a working relationship or at least walking away from each other without the need for either paying lawyers a fee.

Fortunately I have only ever been in that position once in the last five years, and I did negotiate. I also retained the client and the candidate. And more importantly my reputation.

Richie N · Sep 15, 2008

officeangel said:
Yes I'm in recruitment and have been for more years than I care to think about.

You're right Richie, legally and technically if there is is no come back on the terms of business then the invoice should be paid.

But if I had an unhappy client I wouldn't simply say pay up I've done my bit. Even though I could do so according to my terms. Negotiating could be a way of both parties continuing a working relationship or at least walking away from each other without the need for either paying lawyers a fee.

Fortunately I have only ever been in that position once in the last five years, and I did negotiate. I also retained the client and the candidate. And more importantly my reputation.

I agree but each situation is different. Personally I do think if the invoice is paid then they have a better situation of resolving this with perhaps a free replacement, but until they have honoured their part, the agency could enforce payment.
At the end of the day, they have placed someone and as you're a recruiter, you will know what time and costs go into making a placement.

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