Why SEO Is A Complete Waste Of Time For Your Small Business

Terry Kyle

Free Member
Jul 22, 2008
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Finchley, London
Small Business Online Marketing WITHOUT SEO? Absolutely.

EDITED FOR CLARIFICATION:

OK, put the guns down and hear me out BEFORE the public execution begins over such an outrageous statement.
So here's why SEO could be a total waste of time for a small business or home business entrepreneur, namely, you:

Unless you have invented a time machine, time is finite.

Limited.

Valuable.

All of us entrepreneurs have many demands on our time (and money) and in this time-poor lifestyle, why should we allocate vast time (and financial) resources to SEO and boosting our rank on Google?

Right about now, the SEO guys here are turning red with rage and phoning up hit men.

And by SEO, I mean consultants and firms who work on aspects of your landing page/s and site/s to make them rank higher in Google et al. Obviously there can be other threads to SEO (like the testing of conversions etc on your landing pages, more on that below) but Search Engine Placement is the MAIN, not only, but MAIN point of SEO not SEM which IS very valuable.

But let's consider a different approach for a moment.

Most small business entrepreneurs simply do not have the time or financial resources to compete with bigger business who have full-time consultants or firms working constantly on their SEO to bump up their Google place a notch or two.

What I propose is a marketing model quite different and one that I hope gives you back some time and money.

At heart, I'm a guerrilla marketer driven by cost-effective (including time, not just money) results-driven tactics and strategies and to be blunt, I'm too technically illiterate to appreciate a lot of the nuances of say, H1, H2 and H3 codes or whether your Java is inside or outside your HTML code etc etc.

There's a simple saying in our business: sell what is already selling.

Let's apply this to your SEO-less online marketing.

Rather than spending months or years (time is money) on technically Google-optimising everything about your website/s, devouring every latest SEO trick and building hundreds of quality backlinks, INSTEAD make sure that your fine-tuned marketing messages CONSTANTLY appear on sites that Google ALREADY loves.

When your messages appear on some of these sites, Google will put it on Page 1 in UNDER TWENTY MINUTES.

And you have time to go out and enjoy a movie rather than buying another SEO book.

And yes, I think you MUST use a paused Adwords account to find out exact long search phrases in your niche to use as titles and content in your messages.

But that's VERY different to constant SEO development of YOUR website/s.

If you want to find these Google-loved sites where your messages MUST appear, go to Alexa dot com and check the top 100/500. Work out where you can get your messages seen on these sites and indexed rapidly and high on Google.

For example, I get incredible Page 1 Google results from a site that is in the 300s on Alexa - all WITHOUT a penny spent on SEO.

Google ALREADY loves this site and doesn't care much for mine but I don't care. Because my messages are on that sites and others! And I keep them there.

Those sites are among the biggest traffic drivers to my poorly-SEOd site. And they're free to place messages there.

No PPC.

Now imagine if you have great marketing messages appearing on TEN or TWENTY of these Google-loved sites a day.

This will give you far more IMMEDIATE and FREE traffic than wasting years of your life on SEO-ing YOUR site to death.

Read this next part carefully because this is the part that the SEO-worshippers seem to miss in my argument when they launch their counter-attacks:

Of course, you MUST have YOUR landing pages PROPERLY tested and SORTED in terms of RESPONSE and CONVERSION and different landing pages split-tested THOROUGHLY when the traffic DOES come from these OTHER Google-friendly sites BUT you have optimised it for PEOPLE, targeted prospects, NOT a Google algorithm/robot that changes its mind constantly about Quality Score!

The last time I looked, SEO consultants were not recognised advertising copywriters (which could be a more fruitful use of financial resources but question everything).

Consider, for example, that the bestselling digital product sites on ClickBank attract as much as 75% of their traffic from affiliates (via articles, PPC, opt-in-lists etc). The Google optimisation of the original digital product vendor then is far less important than their landing pages' SALES CONVERSION optimisation.

Far from being misanthropic, I actually have nothing but respect for good SEO people because it seems like a technically complex process and Google seem to keep moving the goalposts - my main consideration here is the time/money cost effectiveness of online marketing for small business entrepreneurs like us.

So there we are.

Let the vengeful fists of SEO fury come now but hopefully this post will facilitate an open-minded, intelligent debate about cost-effective online marketing tactics and strategy.

In so doing, I hope this helps your small business journey because I know how important succeeding in it is to you.

On an unrelated matter, I came across this cool axiom from Jim Rohn yesterday: "Your personal income rarely exceeds your personal development."

Hard to argue there.

You may also want to check my professional credentials on my website and the kind of people publicly championing my book e.g. Duncan Bannatyne, before dismissing me as a "get rich quick" author.

Let's stick to the issues.

Have a great day.
 
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I have to say that you post is so badly done that I had to read it twice to try to understand where you are coming from and then when I finally understood I looked at the message and was totally underwhelmed. Are you sure this type of post will help to sell your book? I can think of many better ways that you should consider going forward...
 
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Isn't this just one of many thousand strands of SEO? It is a way of getting traffic, thus a way of optimizing any searches as done by the bots..
Might be a good one, don't know, yet..
Not being rude or arsey, but your copy could do with a tickle.:)
 
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See what I mean? After all, did you find this article on my website?


Nope, I found it on UKBF, right where you posted it ;) :D

It's interesting to see that you think of SEO as an afterthought. As far as I'm concerned, it starts from the website build - well before that actually, it starts at the website PLAN. Like all marketing, decent planning in advance makes a hellava difference.

Just my opinion :)
 
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I like people who think outside of the box and go against popular belief as they do throw up gems every now and then.
I am also a fan of seo but wont dismiss your theories unless ive tried them first.

So many times people dismiss others thoughts so quickly but why is that ?
As a martial artist i have discovered many things that on paper shouldn't work but in reality do.

The best one was the slow motion punch. Now if i told you to punch someone slowly you would think i was mad but it can work well.And there is good thinking to back it up. If you throw a punch fast people will always flinch or react in some way but if you throw it slowly they see it coming and the brain engages by asking "here comes a punch how should it deal with it ?"This thinking time ends up overriding the reaction of flinching and then they get hit by the punch that has arrived.

Its so easy to dismiss things that may seem crazy, but why, without first trying it ? Its like saying you dont like a certain food without trying it first.

Its nice to see new fresh ideas thrown into the mix,even if its just for the reactions of the masses. :D
 
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Hi

I can't even finish your long winded post ....

There is certainly much you can do yourself without spending a penny on seo - in fact I have a client who we created a website/ecommerce site for who did not want specialist SEO from us - this site has in excess of 260,000 visitors per month and £268k+ of sales in 1st year .... but let me stress they do a LOT of marketing off and some on line.

There are certainly some excellent SEO consultants about (and I do use some) but it's like every kind of business in life ... if you work hard enough and are determined then you should succeed.

Anyway back to your post ... it is really hard to read and understand and looks much like gobbelygook! oops!

Joanne
 
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The opening post is pretty much right in a lot of cases, it is the thinking of the OP that is out of date. SEo has moved on, the machine you are raging against has moved on I am afraid to say Search engine placement no longer exists in professional SEO.

SEO has moved into more serious things like conversions, usability, calls to action, you see on page SEo has very little to do with "h1, h2, h3 codes".

Modern SEO's understand the selling process, will imprtove a site, and will get their client in front of potential customers in so many different ways.

SEO has been dead for a while, it became SEM and no-one outside pro SEM's and their clietns realised it.

In fact, many self focussed marketers completely ignored the development of SEO into SEM.

I remember when I first started selling, bought books, and the books said, 'selling is about knowledge, knowledge of your company, the product etc. Knowledge of your competitors and their products, but also about knowledge of the marketplace in which you operate, and the extended role it plays.

Looks like you might have taken your eye off the ball, because IMO, as long as the web exists, there will be web marketers.
 
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...I am afraid to say Search engine placement no longer exists in professional SEO.

SEO has moved into more serious things like conversions, usability, calls to action, you see on page SEo has very little to do with "h1, h2, h3 codes".

Modern SEO's understand the selling process, will imprtove a site...

Interesting comments. It sounds like have you redefined SEO to have little to do with the search engines themselves and more to do with converting customers.

To me SEO means exactly what it says: optimising for search engines. You are obviously offering something more than that but I personally wouldn't call it 'SEO'.

Regards

Dotty'
 
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Well call me an old stick in the mud.But being No 1 on google brings in 3.5 times the visitors of No 2.

So if your a really super duper SEM and your on page 2 .I suspect I will kick your arse all over the place.

Now I strongly suspect that this new fangled SEM that I am supposed to be part of is a refuge for failed SEO's.?

Cause I know as sure as god made little apples.if one has rubbed the genie the right way and got to No 1 The chances of a site not being set to convert are the same as winning the lottery 3 times in a row.

But then what do I know.?:|

Earl
 
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@dotnetwebs, I haven't refined anything, this is the way myself and the people I know have ALWAYS carried out SEO, this is why people like Danny Sullivan and Jill Whalen have been pulling their hair out at having to be labelled 'SEO's ' :(

@sirearl.
you said "Now I strongly suspect that this new fangled SEM that I am supposed to be part of is a refuge for failed SEO's.?" not sure who you are aiming that at, but if me, then you have totally misunderstood what i am saying. (which is sad)

Do I try and get the client to #1, DAMN RIGHT I DO. Is that ALL i am interested in? Damn right it ISN'T!

A crap site at #1 will convert less well (and therefore earn less for my client), than a well SEO'ed site that has all the correct elements in place like usability, alls to action and damn good copy.

As you know, you can bomb a site to #1 on google without making any changes on page, if the site is crap, money is being thrown down the drain :)

I don't know many really good SEO's that don't cover the on page conversion usability aspect. The motto I have always adhered to is that it is the job of the SEO to make a site as good as it can be.
 
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@dotnetwebs, I haven't refined anything, this is the way myself and the people I know have ALWAYS carried out SEO...

What I meant was that you have redefined the term SEO.

Your own website states "Search Engine Optimisation (SEO) is the term used for ensuring that your website will be optimised for the search engines when they reply to a search."

I think most people would agree with that definition but now you are saying that SEO is something MORE than that. Nothing wrong with that but I think you need a new term / acronym / abbreviation / whatever to define what you do - because it is clearly outside of the literal defianition of SEO.

Regards

Dotty
 
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I agree Dotty, the two people I mentioned (Danny & Jill) are equally as perplexed by having little option other than use the term 'SEO'. people understand it and so we have to use it :(

Almost all the enquiries I and other SEO's get start with 'can you make me number 1 on google for 'a phrase here' :( We then have to try and bring them around to the thinking that web marketing is far more than PURELY ranking for number one.

You are absolutely right though, the text on my site needs to be updated. Thanks for the nudge :)
 
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Got to agree with OWG, if your just focussed on SEO and SEO alone then you may get the rankings but never the conversions if your site is set-up poorly.

The OP has a valuable point in that a great link placement on a site that generates a **** load of traffic can be beneficial.

But then we have to look at the traffic itself, is it within your niche and delivering the targeted users your after.
If not then its a bloomin' waste of your money.

Taken even a step further, remember were talking traffic here not linking, say the traffic is the type your after but your site just sucks, perhaps not in your eyes, but to the common everyday user.

SEO's work with analytics! It's when you start taking that valuable data and using it proactively to help your site that you cross the bridge into online marketing.

Seriously, if your into SEO that's great but tbh there is a huge big discipline in search marketing sitting right behind it that you should be focusing on to either a) get the best out of your clients site or b) to get the best out of your own.
 
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The opening post is pretty much right in a lot of cases, it is the thinking of the OP that is out of date. SEo has moved on, the machine you are raging against has moved on I am afraid to say Search engine placement no longer exists in professional SEO.

SEO has moved into more serious things like conversions, usability, calls to action, you see on page SEo has very little to do with "h1, h2, h3 codes".

Modern SEO's understand the selling process, will imprtove a site, and will get their client in front of potential customers in so many different ways.

SEO has been dead for a while, it became SEM and no-one outside pro SEM's and their clietns realised it.

In fact, many self focussed marketers completely ignored the development of SEO into SEM.

I remember when I first started selling, bought books, and the books said, 'selling is about knowledge, knowledge of your company, the product etc. Knowledge of your competitors and their products, but also about knowledge of the marketplace in which you operate, and the extended role it plays.

Looks like you might have taken your eye off the ball, because IMO, as long as the web exists, there will be web marketers.

Totally agree. SEO as a stand alone element appears to have a limited future, with ever increasing awareness and competition alongside the ongoing development of SE sophistication.

The umbrella of SEM covers so much more and clever marketers understand this. SEO, PPC, social media, PR, email marketing are all part of the mix in bringing qualified traffic to a site that converts.

Bottom line is as important as it always has been and the good search engine marketing firms will immerse themselves in clients' businesses in order to bring them the best ROI
 
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Agree with OWG and PWS1970, there is so much more involved in the SEO process than simply getting a site into the top spots. When employing an SEO company the goals and targets that are set should not be solely what position can I get my website to but how much will the return on my investment be and this involves engaging with the visitor, web usability and understanding their requirements.

There is absolutely no point spending money and more importantly time getting your site up to the top of Google if you can not convert the traffic into sales. This can range for a number of reasons from the wrong sort of traffic in the first place to a site that has usability problems or no calls to action.

Kerry
 
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:(

@sirearl.
you said "Now I strongly suspect that this new fangled SEM that I am supposed to be part of is a refuge for failed SEO's.?" not sure who you are aiming that at, but if me, then you have totally misunderstood what i am saying.

Not aiming at anyone just meanderings of a worn out mind.

for the visually impaired please read again

"Cause I know as sure as god made little apples.if one has rubbed the genie the right way and got to No 1 The chances of a site not being set to convert are the same as winning the lottery 3 times in a row."

and a tad more common sense here

http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/biggest-mistakes-in-web-design-1995-2015.html


Earl
 
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In reply to the original post, he definitely has a point. It doesn't take a PhD to realise that anyone who relies solely on onpage SEO, and solely on the rankracing aspect of SEO to get business is missing the big picture. That big picture having been covered by various other guys on this thread now. SEO is just a means to an end. It's not an end in itself. And some of his tips arn't too far off the mark, in all truth the amazon one I've been using for years :)

On the other hand, his truisms are a little too general. They might work for him because he's clearly in the business of selling books on selling/marketing, as this simple search shows. Now, selling and marketing are cross-sectoral so his stuff is going to appeal to anyone regardless of sector. Everyone wants to sell more, market better and get rich quick, right? Not only that, but it doesn't matter to him whether he markets to Americans or Brits, the same product will work for both.

Compare this with me, I'm in the business of getting leads for phone systems which we install and maintain in the UK. So, first of all my market is just the UK, and secondly my marketing is focused towards where UK people and companies look when they're researching or buying their phone systems. Which absolutely isn't Amazon or some high-traffic irrellevant site. It's Google and various specialist sites.

Bottom line, my company would go out of business if I didn't get the leads I get. Last month I got 750k worth of leads because I'm good at SEO and PPC. And I don't for one second believe that SEO Is A Complete Waste Of Time For our Small Business because I've got the facts and leads to prove otherwise.

As he says, time is finite. Let's analyse this. So as a small business owner I can either do it his way and spend that time getting links etc on high traffic, irrellevant sites catering to US readers, or I can spend that time honing in on where the UK technicians, IT managers and finance directors do their research on this stuff for them and get eyeballs there, and back this up by creating relevant content for them. It's a nobrainer.

Anyhow I'm always suspicious of these get rich quick and achieve amazing Internet success type authors because in my experience whilst such things sound great at first, if you analyse them intelligently there are always flaws.

That's not to say that you can't learn from them though. You should never stop learning or be unprepared to adapt "because you know better" or because you're wedded to SEO being king.
 
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3 fairly random remarks about stuff in this thread:

(1) Not all publicity is good publicity

I see this a lot on the internet: someone writes an article with a "controversial" headline... but the headline is just dumb - it just can't be true.

It might get attention, but most of the attention is negative (people see through the nonsense).

This might make sense if you're trying link bait on digg, but it's pretty silly on a forum where you're trying to develop a reputation for knowing what you're talking about.

(2) The idea that business owners should be writing articles... since when do business owners become writers? I thought they were business owners.

Time is finite and writing interesting (and readable) articles is a skill. So, many of the "don't learn SEO" arguments can be applied to article marketing.

(3) The mix of SEO and conversion optimisation is a good idea, but shouldn't you START by sending targeted traffic to the site, optimising the conversion of that traffic, THEN SEOing it?

Just my 2p,

Steve

PS I agree with a lot of Nass' post that's above mine.
 
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Quite as the previous posts .

Horses for courses how can you make a sweeping statement like the OP,when one site maybe selling 50 pence printed mugs and the next million pound houses.

Every Business on its own unique needs.

Earl
 
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Is it just me or is the OP using a long difficult to read article to say

" Do not use SEO on your own site, just place marketing material on sites that have good SEO" :|

Not exactley cutting edge and a favourite method of those who sell get rich quick schemes etc.

As a small business owner the only thing you really control is your time. How you use that time is totally up to you and will dictate your results.

The nature of business means that your time has to be spread across several functions and you have to learn about each to a level that you decide is okay for you.

Their are hundreds of examples of small companies who have used SEO/SEM to launch and grow their businesses and are doing very well from this investment of time and money.

The OP headline is wrong, but has probably achieved the objectives he had when posting across several sites. Will it sell more books for him is the question:rolleyes:
 
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I invite all respondents to this debate to read ALL of the edited, clarified comments now added to my original post.

Thank You

Hi Terry,

Of course, you're right. I've never been racking my head about SEO and my one-page sales websites generate nice income from Google traffic without me having spend a penny on SEO:redface:

All is NATURAL - keywords etc. Once you write about the topic, it's getting indexed and Google sees everything...:)

SEO is a hype - just like so many other things in our lives!:rolleyes:
 
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Really, for anyone to turn round and dismiss Google, SEO, and to think they know better than everyone else because he's had success selling his book by *drumroll* placing links on the best known and most popular book site in the world where book readers go to buy books because their books are cheap and they have the largest range of books doesn't reaaaaaaaaaaaally strike me as hugely miraculous or visionary :)

The flipside is that SEO is often missold or perceived as some miracle cure, which the old farts amongst us know perfectly well isn't true. It's a means to an end. And there are various routes to that means, most of which any half-decent SEO would do but he's claiming as not being SEO because SEO is unneccessary. Put it this way, if someone offered him #1 spot on google.com for online marketing I wouldn't see him turning it down.

The big danger and trap everyone falls into with the web and/or ideas is that they think "doing it way X will suddenly transform my success". SEO falls prone to that trap, claiming things it can't deliver. And my opinion, based on facts and leads that I produce for my company, is that his large sweeping all-encompassing statements, whilst interesting, are not only self-contradictory (his methods dismiss SEO yet are the same methods used by SEOs) but are also slightly simplistic (ie the country, relevance issue) so don't apply across the board.

I think as a business owner you've got to be careful about anyone who comes in claiming to be the next great thing in sales and/or marketing. I also think there's a certain responsibility that comes with dispensing advice - people are nervous, the economy has taken a downturn, now's not really the time to go around confusing people even more. Or, take advantage of their lack of knowledge. But! that's equally true of SEO too.
 
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i like your post and i do believe what you are saying.

good little read

After reading the other posts, I dont think you are try to dismiss the fact that google is a good place for top end listings .. but i do see the absolute benefit of getting website visitors to your site from other places.. the thing is obvious .. get more visitors to your site and make more good lovely cash .. simple
 
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i like your post and i do believe what you are saying.

good little read

After reading the other posts, I dont think you are try to dismiss the fact that google is a good place for top end listings .. but i do see the absolute benefit of getting website visitors to your site from other places.. the thing is obvious .. get more visitors to your site and make more good lovely cash .. simple

Do you mean get them from other places beside the internet.The home of pretty well all websites,which have 1.3 billion consenting adults searching for various products and services.:rolleyes:

Earl
 
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Do you mean get them from other places beside the internet.The home of pretty well all websites,which have 1.3 billion consenting adults searching for various products and services.:rolleyes:

I don't know why you're rolling your eyes. Offline sales dwarf online.

Using only online marketing means you're ignoring the vast majority of most markets.

Steve
 
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In the Uk, figures released this month state that currently of every £1 spent, 17p goes in online spend. So that is 17% of all retail spend in the uK is online.

Anyone who doesn't have a combined online offline marketing plan is alsow throwing opportunities away.

The internet is a brochure that can be given to your potential clients the instant they request it. It needs to be an integral part of your overall marketing plan, not some sort of bolt on 'other world' :(
 
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I thought the OP made some good points but couldnt help but feel the over-riding message is placing links to your own site from high traffic/ranking sites and that in itself is fairly common knowledge? I would agree though that spending vasts amount of time on optimising your site isnt the best use of your time. Something I have done, one of my sites www.sageline500.net is actually 3rd for the term 'sage line 500' (ok niche and bit long-tail) and is only behind sage uk in the natural search. What did I do with that site? Set it up a year ago, ran some ppc for 2 months last year, added a little bit of content and boom, funny enough forgot all about it until I started getting enquiries, not many but then its high value consultancy days I generate on the back of it and the amount of time spent on the site could be measured in days not weeks.

Gary

P.S. Why arent you all out enjoying the sun????? :)
 
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I don't know why you're rolling your eyes. Offline sales dwarf online.

Using only online marketing means you're ignoring the vast majority of most markets.

Steve


Well as an online retailer with a potential market of 1.3 billion,maybe you could tell me any other cost effective way in which I could reach that many offline.?

So for most online retailers the world wide online market dwarfs any reachable offline market.

Allied to the fact that it has been projected that UK online sales will reach between 30 and 50% within 5 years.

So I think my rolled eyes was very appropiate.:p

A little more on the webs expansion.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7193714.stm

Earl
 
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currently it is 1:6 ratio, hardly 'dwarfing'


Well as I said reachable cost effective dwarfs offline means.

Some of our sites sell 50% outside the UK.

Now tell me how I reach Mr chow win choo who lives in a suburb of Bejing offline.?

Especially as I don't speak Manderin and would have a tad dificulty in drafting an add to go in his local rag.

we sell world wide not the tiddly little UK market.

Answers on a postcard as to how we can reach a world wide audience offline.?

Earl
 
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I invite all respondents to this debate to read ALL of the edited, clarified comments now added to my original post.
You're editing your post as you go along?... that amounts to saying your original post was crap, doesn't it?

Why SEO Is A Complete Waste Of Time For Your Small Business

is a totally wrong assumption to make. You should use all aspects of promoting your business as you see fit, especially proven ones.

James.
 
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If you were 6 foot tall and someone was 30 foot tall, that person would dwarf you.

(like an average sized person dwarfs someone that's 1 foot tall)

So, I'm happy to stick with the verb "dwarfs".

(because it's accurate)

Steve

are you sure.

A dwarf is a creature from Germanic mythologies, fairy tales, fantasy fiction.

and what if he was up a 30 foot ladder.?

Earl
 
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