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RIP cold calling

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wecandobiz

Hi all

I have been working with Matthew Brazil, director of 6Consulting and a former sales director at SCI Sales, on a piece he has written for Modernselling.com.

ARE SOCIAL NETWORKS THE LAST NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOR COLD CALLING?

"Cold calling has been served notice, a new era beckons and with it an altogether different way of working. Social networking has arrived and will soon replace cold calling as the predominant method of prospecting in business" - read the rest at http://www.modernselling.com/sales-expert-comment/social-networking-in-sales.aspx (apologies mods for posting to an external site).

A warning - Matthew gives WeCanDo.BIZ a flattering comparison to cold calling. He also gives an interesting insight to picking up useful relationships through social networking, forums, blogging and micro-blogging. Matthew's interest is B2B, but his findings stack up more for B2C if anything, where the spread of TPS and Facebook are likely to seal the fate of cold calling much faster.

Few may know that my other company is a lead generation company which cold calls for software companies to arrange meetings for them - I don't get it all my way in this piece! It also gives me something to think about in terms of the services I recommend to clients in the future.

Matthew's findings are interesting and I'd be really interested to hear others' views on the future of cold calling.

IH
 
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I would have thought networking would be a completely different thing to cold calling. Cold calling implies that you are trying to make contact outside of your existing networks.
 
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People have been forecasting the demise of cold calling since the year dot, it is still the most successful method of gaining new business if correctly done IMO.
 
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MH1 - it continues to be a great source of new business for lots of companies, yes. But Matthew knows telesales inside out, so such an opinion from him is worth listening to. I wonder how many more leads companies could be getting if they dedicated time on online networking too?

Dawg - good point, but online networking SHOULD be about new connections, not just sitting on old ones. Otherwise, what is it providing you couldn't get from your phone or e-mail address book?

IH
 
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MH1 - it continues to be a great source of new business for lots of companies, yes. But Matthew knows telesales inside out, so such an opinion from him is worth listening to. I wonder how many more leads companies could be getting if they dedicated time on online networking too?
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I'm sure networking will grow, personally I prefer true cold calling, face to face, nothing beats that in consumer sales or business to business.
 
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Cold calling will always be an essential method of selling. I suspect that gurus come up with so-called new approaches simply because they know that most people don't like to make cold calls. This is why so many people hide behind email, for example.

When your customers are scattered all around the country, on-site networking is simply not possible. When you work in a specialised field, on-site networking rarely happens. Today is no different from the past; it's usually about who you know and who they know so that, when you pick up the phone and call someone you don't know, you can start out by referring to a mutual friend.

The most productive locale for networking, in my opinion, is at industry conferences. People in your field have driven hundreds (or flown thousands) of miles to be there.
 
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Cornish Steve said:
Cold calling will always be an essential method of selling. I suspect that gurus come up with so-called new approaches simply because they know that most people don't like to make cold calls. This is why so many people hide behind email, for example.

When your customers are scattered all around the country, on-site networking is simply not possible. When you work in a specialised field, on-site networking rarely happens. Today is no different from the past; it's usually about who you know and who they know so that, when you pick up the phone and call someone you don't know, you can start out by referring to a mutual friend.

The most productive locale for networking, in my opinion, is at industry conferences. People in your field have driven hundreds (or flown thousands) of miles to be there.
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All true Steve. The most successful online initiatives tend to reflect the way we work off-line, but do it easier/quicker/cheaper. Online networking fall sinto this category. Networking happens face to face (harder to do rely on if you don't see the people so often) or over the phone (harder to do if the call had some other more important purpose). What online networking sites allow is for the introducions to happen at any time, potentially all the time without ther needing to any other catalyst, like a meeting or phone conversation. You should be able to connect to more people much sooner.

This statement assumes people are on such sites, of course, but 22% of the adult population now have a profile on a social networking site (source: Ofcom April 2008) so it is getting easier and easier to do.

IH
 
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What a revelation - I've been "social networking" for about seven years online... :rolleyes: It's nothing new.
 
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business123 said:
Is it me or is his website layout at 6consulting screwed up?
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Yep, minor issue with site, seems to be corrected now, thanks for the heads up. As to the article, I appreciate that many think cold calling will not end, however I do believe the balance will shift. I have managed large sales teams, run outsource B2B sales businesses and more. On every occasion cold calling is less effective than other methods not to mention more expensive.

With the dawn of social media and sites such as Ian's (WeCanDo.BIZ) all of the cold work can be done online. The great thing is, although people are still being touched cold they are far more receptive when it is online.

I have tested my theory on many different products and services with great success. My clients will also attest to the fact and have built processes to accommodate social media networking.

It's an interesting debate and I am pleased people are engaging with it, that is of course the true power of social media!
 
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(source: Ofcom April 2008)
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Link please? I'd be interested in any breakdown. Having a profile is not the same as being active, or being economically active, let alone in business.
(Whilst being asked to be friends on a social network because I share the same name/birthday/love of Abba, is very flattering, it doesn't do a shed load for the bottom line.)
 
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Dawg said:
Link please?
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/02_04_08_ofcom.pdf

They do this research quite often so it's worth keeping an eye out for it, as the advancement of social networks in the adult population is quite pronounced each time.

As a comparison, business focused socnet LinkedIn hit their 1 million user mark in the UK some time ago. The shame is that it is great at career advancement, but the tools on the site for enabling new business to be done are very much lacking. That's why we started our site.

IH
 
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What I have found with this wonderful thing called social networking, is that you may have a business profile etc, yet you will get some close friends possibly on it too, is that people come along, read your profile and decide to click on all your friends to be their friend too! This happened to me last week on Facebook and I then got half a dozen messages back asking me why the hell some person had asked them to be his friend!

So having a profile doesn't necessarily mean you will use it well or to your advantage etc!

Cold calling to me still has to feature in the equation for certain forms of business.
 
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Gillie said:
What I have found with this wonderful thing called social networking, is that you may have a business profile etc, yet you will get some close friends possibly on it too, is that people come along, read your profile and decide to click on all your friends to be their friend too! This happened to me last week on Facebook and I then got half a dozen messages back asking me why the hell some person had asked them to be his friend!

So having a profile doesn't necessarily mean you will use it well or to your advantage etc!

Cold calling to me still has to feature in the equation for certain forms of business.
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"Friend" poaching is a bigger problem on sites like LinkedIn, as your contacts there are likely to be important professional relationships you have build up over time - it's like handing your Rolodex over.

On WeCanDo.BIZ we hide your contact list. The only context that it is used is when someone you know (i.e. is in your contact list) is searching for businesses on the site -- if you have endorsed that business we let them know as it will help them with their choice of who to use. Other than that, we keep your contact list confidential, so contact poaching by competitors or anyone else isn't a problem.

IH
 
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Poaching is something that pissed me off once they opened the doors to the great unwashed on orkut. It was THAt which killed it :( When it was invite only it was great. Once they opened it up to everyone it went to the dogs. Because of the contacts I have on my friends and fans list I get inundated with requests to be my friend from indian wanabee SEO's :( I probably get on a good day 6 on a bad day 30 requests.
 
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You do have the option on linkedin to hide your connections list, and I believe on others such as facebook, you can also hide them too. The point I was making is that cold calling to some degree, you can target your potential clients, whereas as was proved last week, social networking can be abused and you could end up connecting to a group of people who really couldnt care less!
 
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Gillie said:
You do have the option on linkedin to hide your connections list, and I believe on others such as facebook, you can also hide them too. The point I was making is that cold calling to some degree, you can target your potential clients, whereas as was proved last week, social networking can be abused and you could end up connecting to a group of people who really couldnt care less!
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you ain't seen NOTHING yet. There is a tidal wave swelling out in the mid west, there is a complete industry brewing about to hammer social networks the way of the directory and soon to be Blog!

There is huge money to be made online, and the spammers really don't give a damn that they kill the golden goose. they killed directories, they killed article sites, they are currently kiloing blogs, and soon every social network in the land will be abused as we see a tidal wave of 'reputation management' companies spamming and falsifying social network integrity.
 
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Glad to see that my article has generated a lively debate, the exact purpose of social media!

I would like to stress a few things. Cold calling is diminishing and has been for some years, it is costly and less effective than in days gone by. Services such as CTPS (Corporate Telephone Pref Service) and its consumer version TPS would not exist unless people and companies are saying ENOUGH! no more cold calling.

Cold calling will always exist in some form but the manner in which we go about it is changing. Perhaps more of warm calling!

Social media is not just Facebook and LinkedIn, nor is it all about creating profiles and inviting friends etc. Social media extends to viral videos, blogs, social bookmarking, micro blogs and more. The art is to create engaging content for potential and existing customers.

Barrack Obama used social media tools in his campaign to great success, run a search on the subject to understand the tools his team used.

All of my social media activity generates more inbound communication (leads, prospects etc) than is statistically possible by cold calling. I have run large sales teams with everyone bashing the phone. Yes it brought success, of course it did, we followed very strict processes and were damn good at what we did. However, if I now place social media usage into the process the results are far far greater.
 
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My fears are listed above, do you have any comment on them?

I have to say that it TOTALLY winds me up when i am propositioned ona forum, or other social media website.

Pm's from people saying 'Hi my name is' xxx I notice you provide SEo services, we can help you yada yada yada.....' REALLY get my back up. I HATE being propositioned in the street about accidents etc. I HATE people knocking my door to try and sell me stuff, I HATE with an absolute vengence spam emails, And I am now getting to hate those people who are invading social networks with an agenda of spamming their services to everyone there.

Just because someone happens to be on a social network it doesn't make it acceptable to proposition them with business. It is an ABSOLUTE abuse of the service provided, and people who do it should be banned. Traditionally on the many forums and other WEB2.) sites I moderate on, it is a warning for the first time, and a ban for the second offence of cold propositioning.

Spammers will kill many networks that are not controlled properly. Even on a business network I think there is a protocol that should be observed. I joined a network and within minutes I had received aroun a dozen Pm's ALL trying to sell me stuff. I deleted my acount details and walked.
 
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OldWelshGuy said:
My fears are listed above, do you have any comment on them?

I agree with your comments. Spam, being propositioned the moment you join a forum, friend poaching, people knocking on my door and being approached by someone with a clipboard in the street, they are all forms of cold contact. As is receiving a telephone call at work or home, "hi this Dave from XYZ company, we sell this and that, blah blah blah". Which is my exact point, cold contact is intrusive, annoys people and is less effective than other forms of communication.

Social media is about creating engaging content for people to discuss, provoking lively debate (as we are having here) and allowing the customer/potential customer determine the content. If you get this aspect of a social media strategy correct you invariably get inbound communication, the consumer has driven the sales process and only makes an approach if interested. This is warm contact, not cold, speculative, scatter gun selling.

Social networks should NOT be used for making cold contact.
Click to expand...
 
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OldWelshGuy said:
My fears are listed above, do you have any comment on them?

I have to say that it TOTALLY winds me up when i am propositioned ona forum, or other social media website.

Pm's from people saying 'Hi my name is' xxx I notice you provide SEo services, we can help you yada yada yada.....' REALLY get my back up. I HATE being propositioned in the street about accidents etc. I HATE people knocking my door to try and sell me stuff, I HATE with an absolute vengence spam emails, And I am now getting to hate those people who are invading social networks with an agenda of spamming their services to everyone there.

Just because someone happens to be on a social network it doesn't make it acceptable to proposition them with business. It is an ABSOLUTE abuse of the service provided, and people who do it should be banned. Traditionally on the many forums and other WEB2.) sites I moderate on, it is a warning for the first time, and a ban for the second offence of cold propositioning.

Spammers will kill many networks that are not controlled properly. Even on a business network I think there is a protocol that should be observed. I joined a network and within minutes I had received aroun a dozen Pm's ALL trying to sell me stuff. I deleted my acount details and walked.
Click to expand...

You raise some interesting points here James. Thomas Power of Ecademy frequently tells new joiners to his business focused network that you'll need to spend 2 years on it to see results. Why? Because the mantra there is the same as BNI in many ways: "Givers receive". Or to put it another way, expect to have to establish your reputation first and provide some real value to other people before you start to ask for things in return.

This is all fair of course and I could never argue with it. My issue is that small business owners are often in short supply of the time needed to put in to give before they can start getting in return.

Social networking offers something of everything. The Ecademy approach works well for many. I think the same is an unwritten rule on here too. We designed WeCanDo.BIZ as something different -- somewhere you can tell people what you need up front, and they'll come and tell you they can help you. You don't NEED to spend time establishing a reputation first -- it is needs/solutions matching without the small talk.

This approach won't suit everyone, but we aren't suggesting people bin their membership of UKBF to join our site. If we take that sort of direct approach traffic away from here to a site where people want that, then everyone benefits. The two could work very well alongside each other.

ETA: We'll be keeping a keen eye out for spammers who, to me, are making mass unqualified contact. No evidence that it is going on with our site today but because we control the messaging system ourselves it isn't impossible to stop once started.

IH
 
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Oh god did you have to bring TP's name as well as Ecad into it,? I just threw my breakfast up ;)

EC was one network i joined a few years back (2004) and rapidly left for the reasons above as well as nastiness and general business BS :( i don't do office politics, dont't really do the 'how to win friends and influence people' mantra. I am more of the 'say what you think and sod it if you have no friends, at least there will be less arguments' mantra :D

Ian you know now where I am coming from here, and I think the reason I find business networking distatseful for myself is because i am not chasing new work. Don't get me wrong, I AM accepting clients, but I am in a position where I can chose my clients. Most come from referral, so i know and they know what to expect from me.

I am all for business networking, but and this is the thing, why the hell does it have to be so FORMAL?

Maybe I have been spoiled by the way SEO's network! It is VERY informal, there is a mutual admiration for the others abilities, with many (top quality) SEo's not being afraid to say 'hey have a word with xxx he is better than me on that area'. I think that is what I am struggling with on this and 2 other forums I joined. For some odd reason it always ends up in a pi55ing contest :(

recognising your own weaknesses is the first step in self imporvement. I am the first to admit I code even less well than Stevie Wonder does dot to dot. But I AM good at what I do, and what I say isn't picked up from a forum or a newsletter, it is all through being part of testing of theories. This is why i get het up when people post things as fact, when they should post 'I read on a forum the other day that xxx.....' Stating things as fact when you haven't tested the theory is popping your entire head and shoulders above the parapet.

Not you by the way, 'one' , but if I say 'one' in Wales they will think I am English and tar and feather me :D
 
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6consulting said:
Cold calling is diminishing and has been for some years, it is costly and less effective than in days gone by.
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I don't understand the issue of cost. I have unlimited national calling for 10 pounds/month. With another provider, I could have unlimited international calling for another 5 pounds a month. The cost of phone calls is approaching the cost of emails, and phone calls are much more personable.

For sure, online methods of communication are becoming increasingly important - take these forums, for example. I just don't see how that will diminish the importance of cold calling.

As a data point, the sale of beer in South Africa dropped significantly a few years ago. The reason? People were spending their discretionary money on communication (mostly phone calls) instead of beer. In other words, we're all communicating more these days. It's not a zero-sum game.
 
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Cornish Steve said:
I don't understand the issue of cost. I have unlimited national calling for 10 pounds/month. With another provider, I could have unlimited international calling for another 5 pounds a month. The cost of phone calls is approaching the cost of emails, and phone calls are much more personable.
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The cost of the staff to do it is the big cost. It's probably £200 a day compared to the £10 for the calls, even if you ARE paying a rate per call.

I hate the expression, but telesales/cold calling is a numbers game. I run a business that does it. To get a meeting you need to have had probably 30 conversations in total to find the one where there is a need and they wish to take it forward. To get 30 conversations you need to make probably 100 calls. This all takes time and money.

I appreciate the equations will vary by industry and also based on where you got the data, but cold calling is never easy.

IH
 
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You need to look at the time factor. In every business each employee has a cost attached to his/her time in the office. For example, if you have 10 telesales people, all earning a base of £20k, thats one cost. Factor in overhead (another £150 per day per person for example) add data and so on the cost goes up. Cold calling is a time based activity, you are limited to the amount of calls that can be made per day. The cost of calls is negligible I agree, but the human cost versus results is something different.

If 75% of all my calls are ineffective (answer phone, not interested etc) that's a huge waste. In my consultancy work we look at reducing the ineffective, the sales department always has the most time wasting. If 75% of car production was ineffective what would happen? something would be done.

Social media costs less, is 24hr, is more effective and reaches a far bigger audience.
 
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wecandobiz said:
The cost of the staff to do it is the big cost. It's probably £200 a day compared to the £10 for the calls, even if you ARE paying a rate per call.
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6consulting said:
You need to look at the time factor. In every business each employee has a cost attached to his/her time in the office. For example, if you have 10 telesales people, all earning a base of £20k, thats one cost. Factor in overhead (another £150 per day per person for example) add data and so on the cost goes up. Cold calling is a time based activity, you are limited to the amount of calls that can be made per day. The cost of calls is negligible I agree, but the human cost versus results is something different.
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So networking takes less time? When I attend conferences, for example, which is where I meet the most relevant people, I generally waste several days of my time. While they are valuable because of all the contacts made, they consume a lot of time and money.

Any method of communication is costly in time. Sometimes you can get away with impersonal email (although far too many people hide behind email). Sometimes you can get away with online networking, such as this forum. The easiest way of all, though, to approach the right people is simply to pick up the phone. It's not easy to do, but it's direct, interactive, and immediate - and it takes five minutes.

Different methods of communication may be appropriate for different industries, and maybe there's no one right answer. Still, I think you're being unduly dismissive of cold calling.
 
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Cornish Steve said:
Different methods of communication may be appropriate for different industries, and maybe there's no one right answer. Still, I think you're being unduly dismissive of cold calling.
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I am not being dismissive of cold calling, and have stated several times that picking the phone up will never end. What I am saying is that if you use social media and the tools it provides, prior to picking the phone up, contact will be made WARM not COLD.

Sales is a process, social media is a step in that process.
 
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6consulting said:
I am not being dismissive of cold calling, and have stated several times that picking the phone up will never end. What I am saying is that if you use social media and the tools it provides, prior to picking the phone up, contact will be made WARM not COLD.

Sales is a process, social media is a step in that process.
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You are right of course.
Like a lot of stuff on the intertubes, the OP's chosen headline of "RIP Cold Calling" was liable, (delibrately made?), to be questioned, if not swatted.
 
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Dawg said:
You are right of course.
Like a lot of stuff on the intertubes, the OP's chosen headline of "RIP Cold Calling" was liable, (delibrately made?), to be questioned, if not swatted.
Click to expand...

The point of the piece is to spark a debate and get peoples views and opinions. Yes it is quite controversial to say cold calling is dead, sales people get upset with that notion, but my central point remains that the dependence on cold calling will start to dissipate as more and more tools become available (social media) to make picking the phone up warm.
 
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Cornish Steve said:
"RIP cold calling" is not dismissive? OK - maybe it was a good headline grabber. ;)
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Again I would say that the headline is true. The label 'Cold Calling' and it's core methodology of picking the phone up (or door knocking) someone you have never had any contact with will diminish. More intelligent sales processes will take it's place. Just purchasing data (or collecting from somewhere) and then ringing in a scattergun approach (cold calling) will Rest in Peace!
 
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6consulting said:
Again I would say that the headline is true. The label 'Cold Calling' and it's core methodology of picking the phone up (or door knocking) someone you have never had any contact with will diminish. More intelligent sales processes will take it's place. Just purchasing data (or collecting from somewhere) and then ringing in a scattergun approach (cold calling) will Rest in Peace!
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Cor! Just love it. I agree, I put forward an emollient and what do we get? A NuNetwork gangbanger just won't leave it alone. It's more intelligent. It has more buzz words than before. It's sooo true I tell you, true!

Yawns as thread falls into spam chasm.
 
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6consulting said:
Again I would say that the headline is true. The label 'Cold Calling' and it's core methodology of picking the phone up (or door knocking) someone you have never had any contact with will diminish. More intelligent sales processes will take it's place. Just purchasing data (or collecting from somewhere) and then ringing in a scattergun approach (cold calling) will Rest in Peace!
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Who said anything about scattergun? If you do your research properly, calls can be very productive. I'd say that, on average, 50 percent of the calls I've made turn into follow-up meetings. I have no idea how this compares to an industry average, but I find it an efficient use of my time. The key is preparation.
 
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Cornish Steve said:
Who said anything about scattergun? If you do your research properly, calls can be very productive. I'd say that, on average, 50 percent of the calls I've made turn into follow-up meetings. I have no idea how this compares to an industry average, but I find it an efficient use of my time. The key is preparation.
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Agree on the preparation, and it is here that I would personally use social media. On the industry average, 50% turning into meetings, I would say from my experience (large sales teams) it is high.
 
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Social Networks -people selling products /services to other people selling products/services


Cold-calling if carried out properly can reap rewards

I know ....I spent 10 years doing it

Conversation selling-Spin Selling can all be done over the phone to start the interest

2 types-

1-the person who trys to flog you products services over the phone and has no clue -there are many as you know

2-the professional-takes time and try to establish interest

So Coldcalling is an art...an art that will not die

And most social networks are idle works for idle minds
 
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Allaboard

I second every word that you have said.

It works there is no doubt about that I have secured business over the phone for years.

It is a formula and if you get it right you can get some fairly heavy gains from telemarketing. However I do believe that networking is growing.

I honestly believe that telemarketing will never slow it may very well become the next tool to closing down that business from social networking mediums.

Regards

Dave
 
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Cornish Steve said:
Who said anything about scattergun? If you do your research properly, calls can be very productive. I'd say that, on average, 50 percent of the calls I've made turn into follow-up meetings. I have no idea how this compares to an industry average, but I find it an efficient use of my time. The key is preparation.
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We do a lot of preparation and I can tell you that rate you say is exceptional. Probably less than 1/3 of calls gets us through to the person we want to speak to, on avarage. So factoring in the gatekeepers and voicemail you get, a 50% meeting rate is excellent.

Of course, I am assuming that each of those 50% has a need, otherwise its a pointless meeting.

IH
 
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allaboard said:
Social Networks -people selling products /services to other people selling products/services


Cold-calling if carried out properly can reap rewards

I know ....I spent 10 years doing it

Conversation selling-Spin Selling can all be done over the phone to start the interest

2 types-

1-the person who trys to flog you products services over the phone and has no clue -there are many as you know

2-the professional-takes time and try to establish interest

So Coldcalling is an art...an art that will not die

And most social networks are idle works for idle minds
Click to expand...

Contrary to Dave, I disagree. I have never believed sales is an art. Sure, certain people make good sales people and others don't, but you could argue that of teachers, lawyers or surgeons.

What makes good sales people CONSISTENTLY good is process. Don't have a process and your great results are accidental. Know what you are doing and why, however, and you can pass that to an avarage sales people and also see results.

I don't argue that MOST social networks are a waste of time. But there are some Web 2.0 technologies out there that are making faster/better/cheaper what we practice regularly to generate business in our real, off-line worlds. I think ignoring these is missing an opportunity.

ETA: I do agree with Dave that the phone will probably be used to close deals that may have been started on social networks. Remember, Matthew's assertion was that COLD CALLING (by phone) would die, NOT the use of telephones in business.

IH
 
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wecandobiz said:
Contrary to Dave, I disagree. I have never believed sales is an art. Sure, certain people make good sales people and others don't, but you could argue that of teachers, lawyers or surgeons.

What makes good sales people CONSISTENTLY good is process. Don't have a process and your great results are accidental. Know what you are doing and why, however, and you can pass that to an avarage sales people and also see results.

I don't argue that MOST social networks are a waste of time. But there are some Web 2.0 technologies out there that are making faster/better/cheaper what we practice regularly to generate business in our real, off-line worlds. I think ignoring these is missing an opportunity.

ETA: I do agree with Dave that the phone will probably be used to close deals that may have been started on social networks. Remember, Matthew's assertion was that COLD CALLING (by phone) would die, NOT the use of telephones in business.

IH
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disagree

Sales has and always will be an art form

see glen garry ross next time it`s stage played to ascertain that

Coldcalling by phone will never die, and I do see the demise of social networks which are used for selling ...most certainly amongst the savvy...one whiff of being sold to and they are off

But each to their own
 
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