Awkward customers & delivery charges

gibby · Jan 9, 2008

usually our customers are great & we have no problems but a new customer ordered back in November and the couriers rang us several times as this customer wouldnt contact the depot to arrange a re delivery.

I spent alot of time ringing & emailing this customer to contact the depot which has not happened and now the goods have been returned back to us.

Are we legally allowed to charge the customer for the price of the delivery back to us?

ta

G

business123 · Jan 9, 2008

Depends on what your terms and conditions state.

sysops · Jan 9, 2008

gibby said:
Are we legally allowed to charge the customer for the price of the delivery back to us?

Regardless of the legality, I think it would be totally unacceptable. Awkward customers are part of the deal, learn to live with it and factor it into your pricing.

quikshop · Jan 9, 2008

I would be tempted to either offer to resend the goods if they pay the delivery charge again or offer a refund minus the delivery charge you have incurred, however, the onus is on you to deliver the goods.

Your customer could have a genuine reason for not being able to rearrange a delivery date, or get in touch with your courier so if its a rare occurance then you might be better off taking the hit on this one.

sysops said:
Regardless of the legality, I think it would be totally unacceptable. Awkward customers are part of the deal, learn to live with it and factor it into your pricing.

There are a small but well versed group of mail order and online shoppers who 'play the system' either to use goods for a day and then return, not arrange collection because they've changed their minds or even worse, claim the goods arrived damaged in the hope of getting a freebie and some sort of refund.

To bend over backwards for all awkward customers is not a good approach, each occurance should be weighed up on its merits.

sysops · Jan 9, 2008

quikshop said:
There are a small but well versed group of mail order and online shoppers who 'play the system' either to use goods for a day and then return, not arrange collection because they've changed their minds or even worse, claim the goods arrived damaged in the hope of getting a freebie and some sort of refund.

To bend over backwards for all awkward customers is not a good approach, each occurance should be weighed up on its merits.

This argument gets used far too often as an excuse for poor customer service. Of course each case has to be assessed separately, but on the whole the vast majority of people are honest and have good intentions, and as such the initial stance should be based on the assumption that the customer is right.

In the case of a customer refusing to collect, for whatever reason, the only sensible thing to do is try to resolve it in a friendly way. If that fails, simply issue a full refund and cancel the order. Yes you've lost money, but that's just part of retail.

Jan 9, 2008

sysops said:
Regardless of the legality, I think it would be totally unacceptable. Awkward customers are part of the deal, learn to live with it and factor it into your pricing.

This is the attitude we normally take - it hits a little from time to time, but pays for itself as they usually come back.

gibby · Jan 9, 2008

the problem is that the customer complained repeatedly to us that she hadn't got the goods despite the couriers visiting 5 times & leaving cards
& the couriers rang us to say she wasnt responding
I think they even rang & spoke to her on 4 occassions and arranged a new delivery

I really don't want this person as a customer in the future and from experience with previous ventures - its easier to drop the difficult customers rather than try to keep em happy

we havnt stated anything in the terms & conditions & never had this problem before

Im really tempted to send her a refund minus any charges for the redelivery back to us

we do work really hard on customer service & give the customers the benefit of the doubt on almost everything - which always pays off

G

PayVector · Jan 9, 2008

gibby said:
Are we legally allowed to charge the customer for the price of the delivery back to us?

ta

G

I would just leave it. If you charge them on their card for example they may do a chargeback which will cost you even more money.

sysops · Jan 9, 2008

gibby said:
the problem is that the customer complained repeatedly to us that she hadn't got the goods despite the couriers visiting 5 times & leaving cards
& the couriers rang us to say she wasnt responding
I think they even rang & spoke to her on 4 occassions and arranged a new delivery

Are you sure you have the facts 100% correct? Sometimes a courier will repeatedly try to deliver to the wrong address. Sometime a courier will have a semi-braindead agency driver doing the round.

What does the customer say? Does she want the goods? Has she given any explanation?

quikshop · Jan 9, 2008

sysops said:
This argument gets used far too often as an excuse for poor customer service.

It has nothing to do with excuses for poor customer services but has everything to do with protecting your business from those who might abuse the system to gain more.

As a retail business you run it as a business not a charity, and although in nearly every case the best choice will be to give the customer the benefit of the doubt in these types of situations, there will be times when you have to stand your ground over your terms and conditions.

sysops · Jan 9, 2008

quikshop said:
It has nothing to do with excuses for poor customer services but has everything to do with protecting your business from those who might abuse the system to gain more.

As a retail business you run it as a business not a charity, and although in nearly every case the best choice will be to give the customer the benefit of the doubt in these types of situations, there will be times when you have to stand your ground over your terms and conditions.

Thank you for the lesson in retail, much appreciated.

Jan 9, 2008

I have experienced this previously the customer was unfortunately trying to get round a change of mind on non returnable made-to-order goods, the courier returned the items to me and I simply sent them to the customer directly by Royal Mail instead with a letter explaining the terms and conditions.

Another recent one was advised that they would incur a further postage charge if the goods were returned to me by courier and had to be resent. They immediately contacted the courier and arranged delivery.

However boot on other foot I also had a courier firm take it into their bright head to try to deliver to the wrong address and not cooperate with the customer at all. Customer had inadvertently given the wrong postcode, but instead of the courier advising me that they had a mismatch on the address and postcode, they altered the address to a completely different road in Lincolnshire, when the customer was in Dorset!! It took a rather heated discussion between the courier and myself before it was resolved - and they had claimed to have left cards and phone call etc...but in fact they were in the wrong.

Personally I would contact the courier, check that all the details they have on the delivery are correct, then contact the customer and advise them of the tracking reference number and the telephone number of the courier and advise them that they need to arrange a redelivery - or to advise you of a suitable redelivery date. Politely advise that the courier only reattempts delivery up until a maximum mumber of attempts (mine is 3) and so that if the goods are returned to you they will incur an additional postage cost for these to be sent back out as you have tried to complete the order in good faith.

If you are met with an unreasonable response then the answer is to refund the goods minus the delivery charge, but advise the customer that this will be the course of action.

gibby · Jan 9, 2008

Thanks for that
the couriers have been great - calling me & the customer to try to deliver the goods.
Ive never had a problem with these couriers for this sort of thing and they do call us if having trouble delivering to customers

thanks

G

Cathy · Jan 9, 2008

Has the customer said what she wants now?

I've certainly had instances with our couriers when they claim to have carded several days in a row. With one customer, who was incredibly polite about it and had paid us extra for express delivery, I spent the whole of one Friday afternoon alternately ringing her and the Courier.

The Courier kept saying it was 'out for delivery' and would be there soon. Lo and behold at 5pm the system showed a cliam to have carded the customer around 2:30pm. I *knew* this customer was at home - I'd phoned her often enough on her home phone number that afternoon.

The courier admitted to me that at the end of the day if they didn't have a time for the carding they made it up!!

Needless to say, we're changing our courier company!

However, it sounds as though yours have done the job they were expected to.

I'd be interested in whether the customer wants a re-delivery or a refund, which would probably tell you quite a lot about her motives...

TackleShop · Jan 9, 2008

This may be a customer or a courier problem but we would give a full refund. In terms of time, effort and cost a refund is the best option.

gibby · Jan 9, 2008

I have to get back to the customer tomorow

she has emailed us a few times asking when the goods would be deliverd
then again asking if the couriers could deliver to another address & we told her to contact the couriers direct
she never rang them but I know even our local depot called her twice to arrange delivery

ive made up my mind to refund her to refund her deduting any extra charhes the couriers charge us

I know some firms are terrible - as before this we had another firm that was very iffy and constanly kept returning ordes to us without attempting to deliver - costing us £12 a time +vat ontop of the delivery

thats why we changed

ta

G

Cartel · Jan 9, 2008

Out of interest and as you seem fairly pleased with your courier company, who do you use, if you don't mind me asking?

gibby · Jan 10, 2008

Interlink Express were the firm for this job
the service is excellent - far better than the firms we used in the past

We also use parcelforce as they have managed to get the prices down for us in both the UK and Europe
not had any problems so far except they insist we use theor rip off 0870 system for calling em & we get cut off most of the time or sent round in silly circles

G

SillyJokes · Jan 10, 2008

This is a problem we often have too with customers. Delivery is such a pain in the neck.

We try and learn from each occurrence and have reduced the problems as far as possible, whittling away at each possible source of error.

However someone told me once that there exists such a thing as an "Unlucky Customer" for whom nothing you do can ever put the problem right. It's not their fault or yours, it's just sod's law. If you don't believe in the unlucky customer, customer service can sometimes be a very depressing role.

If you do make a mistake, or have delivery problems, putting it right and improving your systems as a result is the only way forward. You may gain a customer but you could gain in insight too.

Having a scatty customer who hasn't thought through just how they will take delivery is just another project to resolve and reduce instances of in the future.

Sue F · Jan 10, 2008

SillyJokes said:
Having a scatty customer who hasn't thought through just how they will take delivery is just another project to resolve

We've had some corkers.

One lady threw a right wobbler because she ordered a bedding bale (which quite obviously won't go through a letter box) and put the delivery address as her home address even though the house was empty from 7.30am to 6.30pm Monday to Saturday. She refused to have it delivered to an alternative address because she didn't have any relatives, friends or neighbours that could take it for her and she couldn't have it delivered to her work or her husbands work. She then refused to go to the depot to pick up the parcel because she'd paid £4.95 for delivery and didn't see why she had to collect it herself.

We try and cover everything and state on our T&Cs and P&P pages that when you are charged £4.95 for P&P the item will need a signature and that you can have your parcel delivered any where you like as long as you state the correct billing address for your credit card. Some people will just never read the information no matter how careful you are.

I've noticed that the more successful the business has become and therefore the more parcels I dispatch the greater the percentage of numpties I have to deal with ... such is life.

Here's a great example ... I've just been looking on Ebay as I've decided I need a large diary. I came across a powerseller with a vast amount of feedback but two negatives in the last month so I thought I'd have a look and see what they were. In the process of working through the feedback I came across two neutral entries from two different customers ...

"The item was great. Always replied to me quickly. Would deal with again"

And

"Excellent service did more than expected will use this seller again"

Why not give a nice green positive then?

Who knows how some people's minds work

The best thing to do is take SillyJokes advice ... try to learn from each occurence .

gibby · Jan 10, 2008

"Unlucky customers" do exist
I have a few that whatever they order - its out of stock & takes weeks to come back - every single time
they have much higher fault problems than other customers and they arnt awkward
I actually found some competitors in one area were supplying the same customers and found exactly the same thing.

funny world

G

rjharrison · Jan 11, 2008

Just thought I'd chip in with a bitch about courier drivers.

I recently had a delivery due to me, stayed in all day waiting for it for 2 days (somehow they failed to deliver first time...) and it never arrived. They claimed to have carded me but no one ever came to my door.

Could you perhaps try an alternative courier for this particular order?

Chippie · Jan 11, 2008

Just get over it and move on with life. You're in business, sh** happens.

Incidentally, if you were to charge them, how were you going to actally get them to pay you?

gibby · Jan 11, 2008

deduct it from the refund

G

jonnynight · Jan 12, 2008

As mentioned elsewhere, I would not bother about charging, rather make his life much easier and try to find out, if you might be re-delivering to an other address where he is around all day?

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Blush · Jan 12, 2008

I would cut my losses and cancel the order and refund minus the original postage cost you charged them.
From the other end though I waited for a delivery form a company a while back.Luckily I have a good rapport with them.They rang me to day their courier had made 2 attempts to deliver and left a card.Well I wasn't too happy as I had been in both times and there were no cards left at all!
She gave me their number and I rang them instead of her, guess what it was delivered free the very next day as they had originally rang her to charge her again! They hadn't attempted to deliver it at all as they had to ask for directions!
Another incident was my new mobile phone.Courier lost two handsets that were supposed to be delivered to my house, they just said 'we have misplaced it!' so 2nd was to be sent to local carphone warehouse, and guess what, they lost that one too!
i have very little faith in any courier to be honest

APC Nexday Overnite Ltd · Nov 17, 2008

get with a carriers that doesn't charge for returns. Sounds too good to be true but im in the industry and our depot doesn't charge the customers for returns.

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