Opening a bar/nightclub and really need advice!

[Basicproduction]

Now, I know alot of people will say theres already alot of trendy bars and clubs in city centres, but I have a very specific idea of what I want to do and have identified a huge gap in the market (in this city at least) where there are zero competitors

finally someone who is going to do something about it? you hit the nail on the head with this as you can see im from sunderland yeah theres no where nice to go and just enjoy.

good luck mate and you also have a PM

Liam

[Sparky331]

Something which might be overlooked is the full costs of fire safety provision. Unless your architect is going to deal with it don't forget to build in the costs of a fire alarm and automatic fire detection system, emergency lighting, firefighting equipment, staff fire training, fire risk assessment, etc. By far the most expensive of these will be the fire alarm system which could cost you many thousands of pounds depending on how big the place is.

I've recently been involved with the opening of a new club in the Midlands. It was touch and go whether the work would be finished in time for opening. The Fire Safety Officer then told the owner if the staff hadn't been trained the club wouldn't open!! We had to arrange something pretty quickly but managed it. Also make sure the commissioning and installation certificates for the life safety systems are in place before you open as well as your fire risk assessment.

These are the sort of last minute things you cannot afford to overlook otherwise the Fire Authority could prevent you from opening.

Hope this helps.

Bob

[Touched]

Great info Bob, cheers! Isn't it the fire authority who determine your maximum capacity? I'd imagine they would have to be involved quite early on in the process.

Do you have any links to further info on fire saftey and systems?

[Sparky331]

Pete
Assuming you will be carrying out some structural alterations, sanitary or drainage alterations or a material alteration to the means of escape in some way the scheme will require Building Regs approval. Part of this is a statutory consultation between Buiding Control and the local Fire Authority. They are also consulted by the Licensing Department of the local authority. They will see the plans and recommend anything they see as needed if it hasn't already been put on the plans. The only time you might not need this is if you take over an existing premises where there is no change of use and you make no alterations.

As for numbers, yes the Fire Authorities have always done this in the past (up until a year or so ago). Nowadays it can be down to your fire risk assessment. I've just done the calculations for the club I was dealing with for 784 people over 3 large rooms. The Fire Safety Officer will want to see the risk assessment and check it over in respect of maximum permitted numbers. If he doesn't agree he/she may well revise them for you. Without getting too technical it all depends on what happens in each area. Occupancy or floor space factors can reduce your numbers considerably (and your ability to generate revenue) if you decide part of the premises will be a lounge for example. One square metre per person will be applied over the floor area. For other parts used for dancing .5 of a square metre can be applied and even up to .3 sq.m. per person around bar areas. After that you've got to ensure you have sufficient exit widths to get those numbers of persons out in an emergency.

Contact me nearer the time. If you can send me a plan with the measurements and floor areas on it I can give you a rough guide as to the maximum numbers you are likely to achieve.

As for the guidance applicable to your type of premises - click on the link. This is the guide for small and medium places of assembly for up to 300 persons. If you anticipate over 300 then use the guide for large places of assembly. These are used by everyone in fire safety.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/public...iresafetyrisk7

Don't forget though, if it's going through Building Regs then you'll need Approved Document B1 and not the above guide.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...314683691.html

Bob

[oldeagleeye]

Pete. I hate to put a damper on this but I have owned both wine bars and pubs and I can tell you this. You are never going to make any more than a living wage from the licensed trade.

Yes I know it is everyone's dream but for most that get there it soon turns into a nightmare. Lets start with how much you make on a pint of beer. The wholesale to retail margin says about a £1 a pint but then you have to clean the pipes twice a week. Even a small bar has 8 and by the time you have drawn up the cleaning fluid you have got through at least 30 pints. That is 60 a week and you can reckon on losing 10p to silage.

Even the best bars in the world lose money through theft and it isn't always seen as that. So the barman gives his mate the odd freebie. 4 bar staff however and you are looking at £10 that hasn't gone through the tills and that is if there is just the one off. Think £100.

The problem is however it ain't just £100. After taking off all the ex's like rent/rates - bar staff etc the end margin in a bar is about 10%. That means that you are going to have to sell over extra 1,000 pints to make that money up. What does that mean in real terms. It means packing the bar out 2 nights running just to cover the losses. You will need 3-4 other busy nights too to pay the rent/rates and operating costsso what left.

You say Pete you into entertainment. My last pub could hold about 100 on a busy Karaoke night. The average spend £15. That is £1500 gross. The book margins say 42% GP. That is £630 potential profit - but wait. You need 2 doormen on every door now and now that they are licensed they will want at least £75 a night probably £100. There is £400 quid gone. The Karaoke £150 quid. By the time you pay for extra staff you will find that you have had a fantastic night but earned nothing. A big fat ZERO.

Making saving ain't no option. I got bands to play free at my pub but letting them practice for a couple of hours on a quiet night trade wise anyway. The bottom line is however you can't make money in the licensed trade. The big boys like Punch make money by investing in property. They earn an extra commission by wholesaling the beers themselves and charging tenants a hefty premium. The tenants don't earn money from booze. It only covers the expenses. Their only real income is from food and a percentage form the machines.

As for entertainment. Even a modest Karaoke doesn't pay. You want Sky so customers can see a football match once a week. £150 quid a week. Around 300 pints should just about cover the cost.

I am not going to leave this on a negative note however. There is one area where you can make money and which you and your partner would seem well qualifies to enter. It is the Private Members Club with Function room. In fact I will be going that route myself in about 18 months but as your not anywhere near me I'll tell you why.

Take weddings for example. The room and catering booked up to a year in advance and very nice profits. The DJ on the night - the customers pays for and then with a lot of women the spirit sales rocket. As for the rest of the week - where can families go these days where there are not rowdy youths. We are talking members only here however. The odd theme night - magic. A ladies night great - and how about this. There are 1000s of wannabe chefs out there. I am not talking about semi-professional but ordinary people that think they are a great cook. Why not let them prove it. Turn them loose in the kitchen. They have to cook a meal based on their own recipe and serve it for £3 quid - you get £15 a head and they will even sell most of the tickets. You of course also get the wine and what do you think is going to happen the next week. Too true there will be dozens of guest that think they can do better and your on to a nice little earner every week. Hope the info helps. Rob

[i234i]

I think the post above is a little wrong depending on how you do it.

Ive worked and ran events in pubs and venues, and ran venue up to 2000 capacity.
if its done right you can certainly make money..

i know a friend who has a 2nd live music venue and has just bought his second house out in france.

[oldeagleeye]

I appreciate what you say 1234 but times have changed and even the big events are struggling but hey don't take my word for it. Your friend may have other souces of money but I guarantee you that if you ask any wine bar owner or publican if you can make money they will tell you know. You can make a living wage and that's it. Bye the way.Sales in the licenced trade are down over 38% this year and that has nothing to do with the recession. Those figures will be even worse next year then.

The anti-smoking ban is having an effect and people are drinking more at home with cheap booze from the superrmarkets. My localpub used to have 50-60 on a Sat night.Last night I took the dog for a walk there were just 2 people sitting at the bar and that about says it all.

[Scott-Copywriter]

This thread is over a year old so I doubt Pete is here to see it anymore...

[oldeagleeye]

NOW he tells us. Seems like Pete was another DJ with a dream. Don't these threads self destruct after a certain time. Seems like a waste of hosting space if not.

[Touched]

oldeagleeye,

In the space of a year things have totally changed in my life, I can honestly say things have never looked better. I'm still running my other business, which earlier this year I decided to expand, I've also gone into property as an investor and thanks to the recession and low housing prices it became very easy and affordable. Lots of money being made and still to be made.

The club is still on the cards as well as many other things, and I now have a partner who is as enthusiastic as myself but also has lots of experience in the pub trade. Having recently worked with various event agencies and club promotions I can honestly say there is still a huge amount of money to be made as 1234i suggests.

So sorry to put a damper on this but it seems your posts were more of a waste of hosting space than mine!