The SEO thread.

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Aspect Investments

  • #1
    I think this forum needs a thread for SEO, so here it is.

    Far too often someone mentions SEO in a thread, and then it is totally taken over by SEOs and SEO bashers, turning the thread into a free for all about the mysterious world of SEO. :D

    So if anyone wants any advice, regarding any aspect of SEO, or anyone wants to debate SEO, or bad mouth SEO, you can do it on this thread.

    Mods please feel free to move this thread to a more appropriate category if you feel it needs to be moved.

    Or if you feel it is not needed, then please feel free to delete it :)
     
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    Paul Turner

    Free Member
    Jun 25, 2007
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  • #2
    As web developers, our experience has been that you get what you pay for. The company that calls out of the blue promising top page listings in Google within 2 weeks for £200 is very unlikely to deliver. If they do, they will often have used tactics which get your site thrown out of the search engines as soon as those methods are detected.

    It really depends what business a company is working in as to whether top listings are possible. Selling mobile phones??? Forget it, companies are spending many thousands of pounds to get top listings with many companies competing for top listings for the same search terms.

    Fortunately, we are not all in such a difficult business as the mobile phone companies and it IS possible to get some very good listings. There are some very reputable companies out there that will deliver good results by working with the people that created your website and suggesting the changes that are required to optimise your site.

    It is amazing how many companies EXPECT their website to be easily found in Google and Yahoo the day it goes live DESPITE warnings that this can take months and is not included in the price of a basic website.

    To get good listings that remain good, it is probably necessary to spend at least £2000. Considering the cost of other forms of advertising and the business that can be attracted from top listings in seach engines, this is not a lot to pay and can usually be recovered, especially by e-commerce sites very quickly.

    There are reputable SEO companies out there that WILL give a money back guarantee that they DO honour in the unlikely event that they don't achieve their promise AND avoid the tactics that will get you thrown out of the search engines. Make sure that any company that you consider using is one of these reputable ones by talking to some of their previous clients.

    We work with one such SEO company but I am not sure if I am allowed to mention who they are on here so I won't :)
     
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  • #3
    EBA Advisor said:
    I think this forum needs a thread for SEO, so here it is.

    Far too often someone mentions SEO in a thread, and then it is totally taken over by SEOs and SEO bashers, turning the thread into a free for all about the mysterious world of SEO. :D

    So if anyone wants any advice, regarding any aspect of SEO, or anyone wants to debate SEO, or bad mouth SEO, you can do it on this thread.
    Click to expand...

    SEO is the copyright Of "Sir Earl Optimization"

    So if you say anything bad about SEO,my legal team will be in touch ;)
     
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    A

    Aspect Investments

  • #5
    Paul Turner said:
    As web developers, our experience has been that you get what you pay for. The company that calls out of the blue promising top page listings in Google within 2 weeks for £200 is very unlikely to deliver. If they do, they will often have used tactics which get your site thrown out of the search engines as soon as those methods are detected.

    It really depends what business a company is working in as to whether top listings are possible. Selling mobile phones??? Forget it, companies are spending many thousands of pounds to get top listings with many companies competing for top listings for the same search terms.

    Fortunately, we are not all in such a difficult business as the mobile phone companies and it IS possible to get some very good listings. There are some very reputable companies out there that will deliver good results by working with the people that created your website and suggesting the changes that are required to optimise your site.

    It is amazing how many companies EXPECT their website to be easily found in Google and Yahoo the day it goes live DESPITE warnings that this can take months and is not included in the price of a basic website.

    To get good listings that remain good, it is probably necessary to spend at least £2000. Considering the cost of other forms of advertising and the business that can be attracted from top listings in seach engines, this is not a lot to pay and can usually be recovered, especially by e-commerce sites very quickly.

    There are reputable SEO companies out there that WILL give a money back guarantee that they DO honour in the unlikely event that they don't achieve their promise AND avoid the tactics that will get you thrown out of the search engines. Make sure that any company that you consider using is one of these reputable ones by talking to some of their previous clients.

    We work with one such SEO company but I am not sure if I am allowed to mention who they are on here so I won't :)
    Click to expand...

    Good sensible post that Paul.
     
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  • #6
    Paul Turner said:
    There are reputable SEO companies out there that WILL give a money back guarantee that they DO honour in the unlikely event that they don't achieve their promise AND avoid the tactics that will get you thrown out of the search engines. Make sure that any company that you consider using is one of these reputable ones by talking to some of their previous clients.
    Click to expand...

    Paul good post ,but for one aspect talking to the companies previous clients does not show there SEO ability.

    It shows there ability to help those clents only,and if they have got them a top ranking for there products,then of course they are going to be delighted with them.

    The mark of a top SEO company is its ability to get top rankings across a broad range of products and across a wide range of industries.

    So looking at the actual results achieved by a company is far more valuable in determining a companies ability.Than a few references from there satified clients,which may be for easy keywords.

    Earl
     
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    L

    little_stork

  • #8
    Great thread
    I did the link check and here are my results
    Google0hereAltavista115hereMSN0hereAll the Web108hereYahoo102here

    I know this is rubbish but its an ongoing process. How come i dont have any for google? Also i have been trying to do some SEO on my site could you please have a look on the welsh t shirts just to see if im on the right track?

    The more i read the more i get confused :-(

    Thanks
    Tracey
     
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  • #9
    little_stork said:
    Great thread
    I did the link check and here are my results
    Google0hereAltavista115hereMSN0hereAll the Web108hereYahoo102here

    I know this is rubbish but its an ongoing process. How come i dont have any for google? Also i have been trying to do some SEO on my site could you please have a look on the welsh t shirts just to see if im on the right track?

    The more i read the more i get confused :-(

    Thanks
    Tracey
    Click to expand...

    Your on the right lines Tracey :)

    I would also put "for sale" and "tea" in your title ,as it is common for this misspelling.

    You probably do have links to google but they may only show with a google sitemap.


    Earl
     
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    L

    little_stork

  • #10
    Earl
    Thanks for the feedback. Thanks the lord im doin somethin right lol.
    I would also put "for sale" and "tea" in your title ,as it is common for this misspelling. is that my browser title or metadescription?

    You probably do have links to google but they may only show with a google sitemap I have pasted google sitemap to my homepage as per google webmaster section do i need to do anything else?

    Sorry for all the questions :)
    Tracey
     
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  • #11
    little_stork said:
    Earl
    Thanks for the feedback. Thanks the lord im doin somethin right lol.
    I would also put "for sale" and "tea" in your title ,as it is common for this misspelling. is that my browser title or metadescription?

    You probably do have links to google but they may only show with a google sitemap I have pasted google sitemap to my homepage as per google webmaster section do i need to do anything else?

    Sorry for all the questions :)
    Tracey
    Click to expand...

    Browser title

    have you verified your xml sitemap?

    Earl
     
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    F

    Fireside

  • #23
    Hi Earl

    Thanks for the info, I'm just new to SEO and this Forum but learning lots. I'm having a website developed, should be ready in the next few week so just wanted to learn a bit about SEO. I'm sure the developers know all there is to know about SEO but a bit of inside information will not go wrong.
    Thanks
    Ann
     
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    A

    Aspect Investments

  • #25
    Fireside said:
    Hi Earl

    Thanks for the info, I'm just new to SEO and this Forum but learning lots. I'm having a website developed, should be ready in the next few week so just wanted to learn a bit about SEO. I'm sure the developers know all there is to know about SEO but a bit of inside information will not go wrong.
    Thanks
    Ann
    Click to expand...

    Hi Ann, it would be worth speaking to your website designer about SEO before your website is finished.

    Lots of designers do not SEO a new site for a customer as part of the package. Mostly because they do not know what to do.

    You can not assume that your designer knows what hes doing regarding SEO, and that your site will be SEOd to an acceptable level.

    SEO is crucial to the success of your site, so speak to your designer today. And dont let them fob you off with. "oh yes thats all part of the package" Ask them what keywords they are optimizing your site for, and have they researched those keywords for suitability.
     
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    Paul Turner

    Free Member
    Jun 25, 2007
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  • #27
    The reason that most web designers don't optimise a website is that the work involved in researching the keywords, setting up external links into the site, optimising the site, reporting on the results of that optimisation and then adapting according to performance would prevent them from being able to come up with a competitive price against the competition.

    With the lack of understanding that most businesses have of the need for SEO, they would not get sufficient work to stay in business.

    It is therefore necessary for web developers to quote for building the website and advise their client that getting top listings is a separate service altogether, one that is likely to cost more than the creation of the website itself.

    Unfortunately most businesses are reluctant to spend money on optimisation because they all seem to have a nephew or such other that is an expert on getting their site to the top of the listings. This is usually followed by an e-mail insisting that the right meta tags will guarantee a number 1 listing in Google by tomorrow!

    No matter how many times you tell a client that top listings in Google are not part of the design service you will face the inevitable 'I can't find our site' a few days after it is completed :)

    My personal view is that SEO is separate to web design and very few companies can do both well from what I have seen. You don't get your printer to do your marketing, why expect your web designer to?
     
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    sandpetra

    Free Member
    Jul 8, 2006
    315
    16
    Greenock, Scotland
  • #28
    Well said Paul. Just because someone knows how to make a website (even a seo-friendly site), doesnt mean they know a thing about some of the most important elements of seo - link building, or link bait, or indeed marketing.

    Web design (& development) is a skill set. SEO is a skill set. Two totally different arts that "cross over" in places.

    Policeman. Fireman. :)
     
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  • #30
    sandpetra said:
    Well said Paul. Just because someone knows how to make a website (even a seo-friendly site), doesnt mean they know a thing about some of the most important elements of seo - link building, or link bait, or indeed marketing.

    Web design (& development) is a skill set. SEO is a skill set. Two totally different arts that "cross over" in places.

    Policeman. Fireman. :)
    Click to expand...

    Not so sure on that one ,a good SEO has to have a pretty good level of knowledge about web design.

    As its better for the SEO to be able to instruct the web designer on various aspects of a site to gain maximum rankngs ;)

    Earl
     
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    Mark-UK

    Mark-UK

    Free Member
    Jan 8, 2007
    378
    8
    West Yorkshire
  • #32
    Good rankings in google are influenced by what other sites say about you, not so much what your site says about itself. I've been doing seo and ppc for 7 years and the amount of web designers who frown upon seo people is amazing, they wack in some metatags and think thats it. Then when I come along requesting all these changes they usually go crying to the site owner.

    SEO is a two phase thing, first phase is the initial onsite optimisation then the offsite optimisation then once the first batch of new rankings appears you can see where you need to work on certain areas.

    I fell into seo by accident and just stayed with it, I'm still amazed that people spend 10k+ on a site then sit back and wonder why nobody visits.

    I once did a proposal for a client, in the meeting he said im going to get someone inhouse to do the links to cut down my fee. They spent ages doing it and did it all wrong, total waste of time, made it all the more funny there a 25 million pound a year store so it's not like they had no money.
     
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    sandpetra

    Free Member
    Jul 8, 2006
    315
    16
    Greenock, Scotland
  • #33
    Earl - I was a web designer for eight years - right into accessibility et all. I've built colleges, universities and NHS sites by hand - this isnt the best use of my time now I am an seo (which i only started calling myself last year after 6 years of doing it).

    But my passion isnt web design any more - ie - I'm not learning something every day about it like I try and do with seo.

    I think professional web designers with a passion are better web designers than a lot of seos.

    Of course to seo I think you need a full skillset.

    The point is - a web designer does not an seo make. An seo does not an expert web designer make.

    There is a couple of seo companies out there I trained up last year in both web design and seo who now claim to be experts - it's a joke.
     
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  • #34
    sandpetra said:
    Earl - I was a web designer for eight years - right into accessibility et all. I've built colleges, universities and NHS sites by hand - this isnt the best use of my time now I am an seo (which i only started calling myself last year after 6 years of doing it).

    But my passion isnt web design any more - ie - I'm not learning something every day about it like I try and do with seo.

    I think professional web designers with a passion are better web designers than a lot of seos.

    Of course to seo I think you need a full skillset.

    The point is - a web designer does not an seo make. An seo does not an expert web designer make.

    There is a couple of seo companies out there I trained up last year in both web design and seo who now claim to be experts - it's a joke.
    Click to expand...

    Now we know why the NHS is so F**ked up and kids come out of university unable to spell ;)

    I was not suggesting that an SEO be a top notch designer,but that he should have a profound knowledge of what design elements are useless to a sites ranking.

    Also knowledge of how and what a SE considers important in the way a page is presented to the bots.

    Earl

    and Mark links are not the most important thing in obtaining a high ranking .

    genius is and thats the preserve of the scottish nation,look at your history of inventions:D
     
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