What needs to change at Business Link?

Alex Bellinger · Jun 11, 2007

I'm writing a piece on Business Link. Lots of people sadly say they have had a bad experience and that Business Link's array of retired bankers and accountants (is that true?) offer pretty run-of-the-mill advice.

Have any of your guys used them and what are your experiences of them? How do they need to change?

Cheers

Alex

simonswords · Jun 11, 2007

Hi Alex,

We have worked closely with a number of Business Link advisors and although they have our best interests at heart they are not able to offer much in the way of practical advice as they don't have any experience running a "modern" company. For example if I were to ask somebody at BL how to promote my software development services I would probably be told to take out an advertisement somewhere which to my mind is not the best use of my limited marketing budget. This is not to say that they don't have anything relevant to say but they're hardly going to start providing me with best policy guidance on Google PPC!

I think another valid point is that Business Link is an amazing general resource for small business but could do with having access to "recommended experts" in specific fields, such as marketing, design, print, I.T. etc. They would then refer small businesses on to those experts and due to the high volume of work that I should imagine they would pass through, they should be able to negotiate a discount for us.

The people behind business link ARE retired bank managers and accountants. Many of whom haven't even started their own business, and have merely peered in from the outside. I can't wait for these people to start going in to retirement so we can get some fresh blood in there to provide modern advice from the perspective of somebody who has been there, seen it, and got t-shirts

.

Finally, and this is not something that is likely to change - grants and loans. There was a time not so long ago (I was 18 so let's say about six years ago) when Business Link people could help me obtain a small grant or loan of some sort. Now the money just isn't there, unless of course you happen to tick one of the government's boxes and you happen to be an ethnic minority, disabled or female (ideally all three I suppose!). Only then do you have access to apply for money, which seems crazy to me, almost a reverse discrimination.

Finally, the Business Link corporate identity could do with a revamp.

Hope that helps.

Simon

Gillie · Jun 11, 2007

Careful Simon, not even just being a female gets you a grant with business link!

Main gripe I constantly hear about them is the corporate versus small business angle, ie many of those advising have not experienced the startup feeling.

Calypso · Jun 11, 2007

I've never met anyone from business link for one to one advise, however I have used the site for info when setting up Calypso, and I have to be positive about the amount of info regarding Importing - it was useful.

Hayles · Jun 11, 2007

They need to modernise.... they need young, experienced go getters (but then why would they work there....?).

My limited experience many years ago when I came up with the idea of delivering balloons and teddys - before I knew of anyone else doing it - was basically 'that's a daft idea, think of something else'.

I wouldn't approach them for general business advice as there are many other places (even banks) who offer advice, although I would suggest start-ups who have absolutely no idea what to do to contact them for all the basic advice.

H

Mrs Malapup · Jun 11, 2007

I attened everything that was on offer from Business Link and had a personal advisor assigned to me. I found the courses mildy useful but then I had done most of the research myself anyway. On one of the seminars the tutor divided the room into two groups and jokingly said "Right you lot ...your business will fail in the first 18 months ......" He was demonstrating the percentage of failed businesses but by using actual people to make his point was VERY annoying......he did other negative things too which I found very counter productive. I met with my personal advisor once when I was looking for premises and he was very little help in fact he confused me........my solicitor was advising one thing.....the landlord was demanding another and the Business Link guy didnt aggree with either of them! He never answered my calls or messages and I have not yet set eyes on him despite having been in business nearly 8 months now !!:| In my view they need to offer more specific support and stay with you until you getting going and beyond if needed.

Philip Hoyle · Jun 11, 2007

Business Link will never attract the "right" type of advisers. People with real business knowledge & enthusiasm will be running their own businesses. That is the exact same issue for all business advisers, whether Business Link or otherwise. If they are good and know alot about business, they'll be doing their own thing, making a lot more money than an advisers salary.

The point about ex-bank managers is spot on - they are a breed-apart and generally have no clue whatsoever about starting a business. There are also too many ex-govt-quango types as business link advisers - those who have retired or been made redundant from govt agencies, who again, have no idea of life in private business.

As for them getting discounted deals from other professionals etc., then the exact opposite is true - a consultant recommended via a Business Link scheme is actually likely to be far more expensive than finding one yourself locally, and there is no guarantee of better quality either.

I can't give an answer as to how to improve their services though. Perhaps making it a condition of recruitment that applicants must have run their own business at some stage, however small, and however short timescale would bring a bit of real life experience into them. And also remove/reduce the control exercised over them by DTI and other Govt quangos so they are responding to business need rather than Govt targets.

Christiane · Jun 11, 2007

When I met an advisor at BL 2 years ago at the start of my business, he put me right off! I needed advice and guidance but he basically told me to forget it! He was very dismissive.
I have an online business but saw the opportunity to open a retail shop, he offered no help whatsoever, except maybe how to do a business plan.
He didn't see the shop as viable. He said I hadn't researched, etc. I wanted to know what financial help (grant, etc) I could get to open my retail shop and he said none.
I still want to open a retail shop as my online business is growing and I need premises.

Mrs Malapup · Jun 11, 2007

I couldnt find any financial help either....youre right...they dont offer any!

cjd · Jun 11, 2007

Close every business link center, fire everyone working there. With the money saved:

1. create a small business investment fund run on a commercial but not for profit basis to help micro and small business. Use real but local investment companies to manage the fund and allocate awards. Reward the investment committee for success.

2. Provide an on-line library of resource and information giving access to small business to extensive market reports and analysis by sector.

Chris Kaday · Jun 11, 2007

The trouble with Business Link advisors and indeed most consultants who try to add value to businesses is that although well meaning and possibly well read, they have never actually achieved any significant commercial success themselves. Would you want to go into a tropical jungle with a guide who was also on his first trip? I think not! There really is no substitute for starting a business from scratch and building it up into the millions. You learn the hard facts about finance, hiring, firing, team building, process control, IT, business development, selling and ........I could go on. For me the thrill of passing this on to others and seeing them develop and succeed is beyond words and worth. Unfortunately there are very few who have a similar outlook.
Chris Kaday
Business Mentor

maruby · Jun 11, 2007

Right, I've used Business Link as a startup in the last three months - I'll give you some brief info - if you want more details for a case study, just pm me

I got in touch with my local group because I wanted a one to one session. Not possible - I had to go to one of those half day crash courses in small biz stuff to be granted access to an advisor at a later date.

Went to the session - the advisor used to work for a bank

He sold his former bank throughout the afternoon to the half dozen delegates present.

Course too general to be much use and the delegates were all at different stages. He totally crushed one - a video marketing start up - by telling him that there was already someone in the area

I asked for market research advice - none available.

After attending I managed to get a one to one session - he just didn't understand anything about ecommerce - he recommended I get a free website with ads (!!!!!!!) so not to spend a lot of money on a website - this was after i had explained I was only going to sell online.

The constant name dropping of various local contacts made me assume he was on their payroll.

I asked for a mentor - no can do - so got my own via another business support group.

I won't go on, but to cap it all I have had no less than three letters asking for feedback on their services...

Chris Kaday · Jun 11, 2007

I actually find all this feedback very depressing. There are so many aspiring businesses with such high expectations engaging with Business link and this lackluster crew apparently fail to deliver on any count. It is enough to put many people off business altogether and probably does.

Morgan · Jun 11, 2007

I have used them several times over the past 3 years for one on one advise and attended a couple of their spin off seminars. I have to say that I have found them very helpful as a sounding board and to point you in the right direction. I can understand the gripes that other people have mentioned but I went with no expectations and have always been delighted. I know that's not much help to the op, lol!

Alex Bellinger · Jun 11, 2007

Thanks all for your comments and if anyone else has any thoughts do keep them coming. Morgan, negative experiences always get an airing before positive, so thanks for being brave enough to say some nice things about Business Link!

Having said that, I've heard so much negative about BL both here and everywhere else, that it is as Chris Kaday says, really rather disturbing and depressing.

estwig · Jun 11, 2007

We have had dealings with BL and found them to be very helpful and professional.

The only thing is they wanted us to fill in a GVA, some kinda financial thing to help with their funding, even our Chartered Accountant could not understand it!!!

maruby · Jun 11, 2007

I did however have a positive experience with Business Gateway - given a lot of help with my business plan and lots of free courses, plus access to specialists who would ring me up for a chat - is this typical of the rest of Scotland?

simonr · Jun 11, 2007

I've alwasy found them very helpful.... although no actualy help. I'm absolutely convinced the problem lies in the quality of staff they employ. Let me give you an example from my presentations training background.....

I've just spent 2 hours sitting through presentations organised by my loca FSB, one of which was the head honcho of the local BL. The drive of his presentation was "We're your one stop shop". Did he have a slide with his phone number? His website address? Their physical addresses?

No - he had slides telling us about their internal re-organisation.

Heaven help us... .. and they're giving marketing advice!

S

Malcolm Cooper · Jun 12, 2007

I attended a course with BL a few years ago and I just want to throw in one big positive. I got so much more from the other people on the course than I did from BL. We had fun and learnt a lot from each other and I'm still in contact with some of them now. A huge benefit that the course provided as a by product of its purpose.

As for its purpose!!! Like most have said it's populated by toothless theorists working in suits in air conditioned luxury. They seem to know little of practical business.

I'm 50. I've been in sales and marketing in two totally different fields for 30 years both of which involved me helping and sometimes part financing start ups. I had my own retail warehouse for 5 years and now I run Ampalian on the internet.

As I said I enjoyed learning from the other people on the course and I could spare a day or 2 a week so I offered my services, free of charge to BL. Let's just say that I got the impression that it was something of a closed shop.

Chris Kaday · Jun 12, 2007

So true Malcolm. I don't attend many courses now - maybe I should get out more - but I always got more from the floor than the podium. With your practical experience they probably found you a threat.
Chris Kaday
Business mentor

Olwen Jones · Jun 12, 2007

I'm going to stand up for Business Gateway (as it is in Scotland) - I have had a fantastic experience with them, culminating in a £1000 start-up grant arriving in my bank account last friday.

I just phoned them up and went "uhhh, I think I want to start my own business.." and they immediately booked me on a series of workshops which included all the pre-start preparation and gave me my own advisor (actually the head of the local branch). Jim was so great, very encouraging and always looking out for opportunities and contacts for me.

They still stay in touch and have a number of really useful (free) services available to me.

I'm a fan!

Olwen

PS: perhaps it's very different in Scotland- any other scots on here?

An Oasis · Jun 12, 2007

It was over 10 years ago that I last used BL.

Opinion ranges from excellent to awful - we were looking for pretty specific info/ideas, so the advice offered was based on the experience of the individual concerned.

But then isn't that like life, in general?

Crafty Sara · Jun 12, 2007

I went to Business Link two years ago - I had the idea for a product, and had absolutely no idea where to go with this idea. Business Link were brilliant - they put me in the right directions, and I found my way. This is a much better learning curve than being given information in your lap. Each time I came across a stumbling block, or felt lost, I contacted my BL contact, and he would help me find where I needed to go.

I now use their website regularly for information, although less so since reading this forum!!!

It's been a long journey, but in 10 weeks time 15,000 craft tools will be delivered on my doorstep, and I couldn't have begun that journey without Business Link.

Chris Kaday · Jun 12, 2007

Fantastic Sara

My temporary depression at the early postings on this subject have totally lifted. Yippee! What an achievement!
Chris Kaday

Alex Bellinger · Jul 11, 2007

Thanks everyone for your input. I did end up writing a piece on Business Link.

Do let me know what you think.

Cheers

mhcglobal · Jul 11, 2007

Although most businesses will find Business Links whether central or regional a poor source of information, remember these are reference points and are focus more towards new business start-ups rather than existing businesses.

They have set procedures to follow in order to account for funding.

This being said, they were originally the brainchild of the Tory's and have suffer under Labour rule. Today Business Link London is managed by a outside source Serco, who have manage to drag it even further down.

Hence the arrival of enterprise agencies like Supply London, Gateway for Business plus regional support groups EEDA and SEEDA.

But there too only employed personnel previously with BL.

Makes you wonder?

Fred

welovesleep · Jul 12, 2007

I have been to some helpful talks put on by BL but there actual support is quite poor, people with little knowledge trying to help you. They also seem to provide little support to retail operations they see them as lifestyle businesses, and my local BL seems to either support high growth company's whoose chance of success was quite low, or ideas that seem quite frankly ridiculous but provide good PR.....

wanderer1825 · Jul 12, 2007

I went to BL a couple of years ago. Total waste of time. The guy said send me your flyers etc and I'll advise, but if you don't hear from me send me an email as I always forget everything!!!
After several unanswered emails I gave up.
He is still there,why is he being paid?
Tony

WebServerHost · Jul 13, 2007

I would like to see the money go towards real help, like grants for advertising, book keeping, first years accounts and more seed centers with the only pre-requisite being that you want help with your business, not about where it is or who runs it.
We have BL, a local chamber, an enterprise centre and Business College all offering very similar concepts.

I had a meeting with BL who basically put me in touch with a load of graphic designers who were all after money I hadn't made yet, but the Networking dinners were useful.

Short Time Stationery · Jul 13, 2007

BL have many offices, some good some bad and even that is reletive....

That said, they really do need to work closer with groups such as Chamber of Commerce etc, and not to double up on services that they provide.

franco_24 · Jul 13, 2007

I was employed on an 18 month contract to help shake up a particular Business Link that was under performing. The resistance to change was entrenched. It is very institutionalised. There are large numbers of ex bank managers and the organisation does certainly need a good kick up the rear end. The problem you have is that many of the new intakes are just much of the old.

I targeted 100 of the companies that the unit was supposed to have advised and the report back was abysmal. The team would sit and wait for people to ring in and on a busy week they would be luck to visit 2 companies each. A terrible waste of tax payers money. Eventually I managed to get their visits up to more than acceptable levels and they did start providing a real benefit to the local community particularly where funding was concerned, but it was so hard just trying to get them to do anything constructive and they begrudged the fact I was making them work for a living. Most wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in the commercial world. I would rather have worked with lemon sellers!

The other point worth mentioning is the variety and quality of advice given. The advisors wander around giving their own thoughts and views on how to run a particular business. They will not have had any proper business training. The fact they have never really achieved anything on their own, and certainly never operated their own business, just contributes to the general apathy and lack of respect from the business community.

Don't get me wrong there are some good ones out there that are very concientious and hard working but its just a case of pot luck. Most havn't a clue about IT or any commercial business acumen. They can tell you about processes, procedures and benchmarking but they cannot really be of much use to most entrepreuners.

On the upside, use them for networking and any funding that might be available. They can be useful for export. Avoid most of the workshops which are generally badly presented, boring and very basic.

Videoguy · Jul 13, 2007

Like a lot of the other people who have posted to this thread, Ive never found Business Link to be much help.

Their ideas are very old fashioned. If you want to start a shop on your local high street, or a small manufacturing business on an industrial estate that only serves a local customer base you might get some information that might be of value, but anything else - forget it. Mention the word "export"

and their advisors break out in a cold sweat!

Ninety percent of the customers in my online business come from outside the UK, but when I was planning my business, Business Link told me I should concentrate on getting a local customer base first. They also told me that my business plan was "a bit too ambitious". Im glad I didnt listen!

Retired bank managers and accountants are not the best sort of people to dispense business advice. These professions attract very conservative people who dont like taking risks - yet if youre starting a business from scratch, or trying to expand one, youre taking massive (but necessary) risks all the time.

What needs to change at Business Link? Just about everything, really!

Goodegging · Jul 27, 2007

atlascs said:
Now the money just isn't there, unless of course you happen to tick one of the government's boxes and you happen to be an ethnic minority, disabled or female (ideally all three I suppose!). Only then do you have access to apply for money, which seems crazy to me, almost a reverse discrimination.

Simon

does their 'boxes' cover ex-convicts and peope on long term state benefits?

if it does i am their man!!!

neild · Jul 28, 2007

Oh my god! I cannot believe how many people have had bad experiences with BL. The branch in Leeds is fantastic, as the guy I had an interview with actually runs his own business and was called in to help give me advice.

Even the "Is starting a business for me" seminar (I think it's that title

) was conducted by a female who runs her own business.

BL is supposed to give good advice and it's heart breaking to hear they don't or at least lack of it. Like some of you have said, they need fresh business blood working for them.

lewey · Jul 29, 2007

Business Link (for London anyway) is a classic example of everything that is wrong with British bureaucracy. Way too much is wasted on meaningless, rediculous administration, and not enough is left at the sharp end to give useful help. They might be a good starting reference point for people who don't have any intial knowledge at all. And they have helped some businesses. But they should be able to help a lot more. Once you start asking for any kind of specific help, they are out of their league.
And there is too many layers of different organisations inlolved in how they split out and administer things.

I contacted Business Link for London, but got told they can't help, they are just the administration overseers for London area, but to contact OneLondon, one of their subcontractors. who in turn gave me the same line. 4 steps down like this until get to a small local office in my area of London, who then told me they couldn't help because I was asking for help to grow my business, and they only deal with complete start ups!

toystoyou · Jul 29, 2007

I've had 3 contacts with 3 different Business Links. The first time was way back in 1992/3 when I wanted to start a Wedding Planner business (they didn't exist in the UK then) and I was told there was no market for it and to go away and think about something else. This was in Scotland. That put me off starting the business as I was young and desperately needed their help and advice.

The next time was again in Scotland in the run up to starting www.toys-to-you.co.uk about 5 years ago. They were helpful but couldn't advise as much as I needed as they had little experience of online selling and the ethical market.

Then I moved south 4 years ago and went to Business Link Hastings 1066. And they were fantastic. My mentor, Sean Dennis, couldn't have been more helpful. He pointed me in all the right directions, got someone to help me set up my site and advise on software so I could do it myself as I was on a limited budget, helped me a find a sympathetic to e-commerce bank manager and got me on some excellent courses run by Business Link and presented by the same man, Merv, who taught me all sorts about PR, Marketing and Dealing with Difficult People. I also learned about bookkeeping and accounting and the ins and outs of running a small business. Sean also advised on sole trader and ltd co as did the bank manager he helped me find. I have nothing but praise for Business Link Hastings and would recommend anyone in this area to go see them. Sean has experience of running his own consultancy business and he still works there (for anyone in the area looking for a good BL advisor!).

The only course I did that I wasn't happy about was "Trading from a Website" which was done by a much older woman who had run a mail order company and moved into e-commerce. She gave us a huge handout and basically read from it. She didn't want to answer questions and was not aware of a lot of the new ecommerce laws. She also had no idea of Paypal, WorldPay, Nochex, etc. Even with my limited knowledge at the time I could've done the course better!!

But overall, I had a great Business Link experience in Hastings and would recommend them no problem. The one's I saw in Scotland I would be more hesitant in recommending them.

I guess it's your luck of the draw which area you're in whether you get a good one or not. So perhaps that's something that needs to change, make it more consistent UK wide with more advisors who have run their own businesses and who have great genuine contacts within the business world.

I also now see an EBiz advisor, which was recommended by BL to me, again he's in hastings and he's fab!! If it wasn't for him my business wouldn't be growing day on day. His advice and help has been invaluable.

Julie

Dawg · Jul 29, 2007

I also now see an EBiz advisor, which was recommended by BL to me, again he's in hastings and he's fab!!

If it's Ed...seconded!

toystoyou · Jul 30, 2007

Yes it's Ed and he is fab!
Julie

Page · Jul 30, 2007

Back after 24 hours. I thought I had best leave my reply until I had had a break. I get wound up about Business Link.

Business link are a total disgrace. Rather than supporting small businesses they to often waste their time and provide nothing. But….

After a long break from dealings with them (as I found them to far removed from the real world to be any real world use) I recently went to a one day course on marketing. What a waste of time. I should have been paid to attend. They had 11 people there only 3 of whom were actual facilitators and one whom made a 5 minute presentation at the very end of the day about how to log into a web site. Was this for real? Sadly yes.
A frightening amount of the time was spent drinking coffee and eating biscuits or lunch.
They seemed to think that I had reassigned work and stayed late on earlier days because I wanted a bit of a day out from the office. I did not. I wanted a days training and to come away having learnt more than I would from having spent the same amount of time reading a book.

That said as a result of the day and a letter sent to me by accident (business link efficiency) I ended up on 2 business networking type evenings where a facilitator guided the group and had a background agenda. For the first time ever in my dealings with business link I was able to get and hear real world answers to real world questions. I learnt more in a single evening than all day on a supposed training course. The guy was fantastic.

So as always it just depends on whom you get. But too many people get dross from Business Link and time after time I hear the same complaints or comments.

Why do I think this happens?

The problem that I see is that Business Link operates in an "Alice In Wonderland World" where they are not accountable to us their (real but) quasi customers and so have little real interest in what we the end users think. Instead the aim is to ensure that the right boxes are ticked and the right forms filled in to satisfy those above them that provide the funding who in a way are their real customers. Most people that have had contact with them will understand what I mean.

So is their a solution? I think there is.

Base funding and the continuing of contracts on feedback from end users. But not based on forms which they hand in at the end of the day to the people that have controlled the days training (and I have no doubt that they bin some of the negative feedback forms) but which are sent elsewhere to a separate body by post.
The forms should be worded to encourage genuine feedback.
Negative feedback should be followed up.
Results of feedback should then be feed back to the local business link and by them to the trainers so that they can improve things.

Then when contracts come up for review time be it at the training level or at the business link level they will get taken away, just as they are now, but more strongly based on feedback over a long period of time that providers have had a chance to address - along with other factors.

These are big contracts for the business link providing companies worth 10 million plus. They will not want to lose them. So they will want to ensure that the trainers and courses and employees they have are good but they need feedback (genuine feedback) and they need to know that they are being watched and monitored as a result of end user experiences. Then they can make adjustments. So the trainers with poor feedback will have already been moved on or learnt to spend some time improving their courses and methods and literature etc.

Until then they will continue to waste money and businesses time and continue to be an embarrassment to those employees that want to see them pushing forward and achieving more and to those businesses like mine that think they should so easily be able to give so much more.

Alice3537 · Jul 30, 2007

Sadly, much of the experience is (IMO) to be expected in this sector. After all, this is why there are consultants for small business who get paid to do the job - just as solicitors get work from people who have had a pretty crumby experience with CAB.

As far as I am concerned, Business Link should not be used if you expect an in depth hand holding approach - BUT it should at the very least be able to provide some pointers.

Ex-bank staff are probably the worst people to man the centers as they are, by nature, risk averse - as are ex-accountants (no disrespect intended).

What needs to change at Business Link?

Calypso

Hayles

Christiane

Chris Kaday

maruby

Chris Kaday

Morgan

maruby

simonr

Chris Kaday

Olwen Jones

Crafty Sara

Chris Kaday

mhcglobal

welovesleep

WebServerHost

Short Time Stationery

neild

lewey

Dawg

Page

Alice3537

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