Needed: A SEO company review site

SillyJokes · Apr 26, 2013

You know what's missing in this world?

A website where you can list an SEO company you've worked with and make a review of whether they did you any good.

A bit like Tripadvisor, but called something like SEOadvisor.

I can't think of another industry where you basically hand them £1000s and they do stuff and they won't tell you anything but "Be patient, these things take months," and at the end of the year when nothing has happened, you don't get your money back.

Actually I can think of another industry. It reminds me of homeopathic medicine.

wdog5555 · Apr 26, 2013

SillyJokes said:
You know what's missing in this world?

A website where you can list an SEO company you've worked with and make a review of whether they did you any good.

A bit like Tripadvisor, but called something like SEOadvisor.

I can't think of another industry where you basically hand them £1000s and they do stuff and they won't tell you anything but "Be patient, these things take months," and at the end of the year when nothing has happened, you don't get your money back.

Actually I can think of another industry. It reminds me of homeopathic medicine.

And just like 'Tripadvisor' it will be open to blackmail and corruption.......

So I'm in for starting it...Anyone else?

SillyJokes · Apr 26, 2013

Gawd, it would be brilliant. Those companies would really have to make a special effort to make a difference if they thought that future clients would be able to get access to their actual results.

They've had it their own way long enough.

NicholasTaylor · Apr 26, 2013

I agree - we've had nothing but bad experiences with out-of-house SEO agencies.

My friend asked me to look at the performance of his chosen out of house agency over a year.
Ranking decreased, no change to on-page factors, I discovered just 2 new backlinks from less than credible websites and the chosen keyword they wanted to target had <10 traffic potential.

All of this charged at £2,000 per month, with an additional £1,000 report summary per month.

Wonderful.

Annoying Donkey · Apr 26, 2013

Perhaps what is really needed is a customer review site...

jonny123 · Apr 26, 2013

There are so many cowboys out there.

People Per Hour have reviews of work done - search for SEO and pick UK flags and read the reviews. Maybe that is a better option?

Apr 26, 2013

In the world of SEO word of mouth is probably the most reliable.

jonny123 · Apr 26, 2013

I can recommend a couple of good firms, although they will not be cheap. Both in the UK.

wdog5555 · Apr 26, 2013

Not sure it would work anyway, see if anyone can spot any genuine good reviews on the Review Center section below (bit like 'Where's Wally' but alot harder!):

http://www.reviewcentre.com/products3098.html

jonny123 · Apr 26, 2013

I have never really looked at reviewcentre before.

This is a funny example: http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews187146.html#Reviews

polar opposites.

NicholasTaylor · Apr 26, 2013

jonny123 said:
I have never really looked at reviewcentre before.

This is a funny example: http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews187146.html#Reviews

polar opposites.

Some of these comments are brilliant.

I put the phone down to any SEO-Seller who says: "And in {amount of time} you'll be number ONE in GOOGLE!"

MASSEY · Apr 26, 2013

To keep it all credible whom ever runs the site would have to see evidence that the person leaving the review has actually had dealings with the company in question. This could be rather time consuming, which is why most review sites fail to offer credibility to potential customers.

I like the idea of it, though.

All those negative reviews would make for entertaining reading

I think UKBF, whom already offer services such as recommendations by members should go ahead and allow a section for people to post reviews of services good and bad. There are apparently quite a few people who float around ukbf trying to ram their shocking seo and web design services down the throats of unsuspecting victims.

JonathanSEO · Apr 26, 2013

And once whoever runs it decided to monetise the site they can sculpt it so the ones who pay the most get the most / best reviews a la other SEO review sites.

You been burned before OP? It's very hard to find a good SEO first time around.

Suzuki · Apr 26, 2013

It would just be immediately plagued by fake reviews - both positive for themselves, and negative for everyone else, rendering the thing instantly worthless.

There was even an seo company caught on UKBF earlier in the week posting fake reviews for himself...

Metalfrogboss · Apr 28, 2013

Caroline, sounds like a good idea but there are already sites out there like TopSeos but you have to pay to be on there! Something we will never do. Simply, it is actually not good enough to be on page 1 Google, that's vanity. Sanity is page 1 with conversion. Chasing numbers does not work in the main. I have written several articles in this over the last 12 years. You should work with a company with a proven track record, legal contracts and, above all, one which is on page 1 for returnable search keywords and phrases. We do not employ a sales force because we have no need. We don't network either. Simply, our page 1 status, coupled with our online presence brings us business day after day. SEO heaven you might say!

jonny123 · Apr 29, 2013

One way to manage fake reviews is to "out" them. I did that on a restaurant write-up. I knew that the same people kept leaving positive and negative reviews (the owners and their main local competitors) so rather than delete them I just added a comment to show which ones were fake. This stopped all fake reviews from the companies immediately. In fact, stopped all but 1 new review appearing since October last year - so many more were fake than I realised!

fisicx · Apr 29, 2013

I know someone who posted a negative review on reviewcentre. Their review was blocked until they could provide evidence of the poor service.

In other words the SEO company could veto the review.

Then there is this: http://www.topseos.co.uk/rankings-of-best-seo-companies

Apr 29, 2013

fisicx said:
In other words the SEO company could veto the review.

Then there is this: http://www.topseos.co.uk/rankings-of-best-seo-companies

Just looking at the No 1 sites client list.

I would be very unhappy with the results if I was a client.

SillyJokes · Apr 29, 2013

Oh, I know it's fraught with problems, it's just a pipedream.

But when I was looking for an SEO I did all the right things, all the stuff you guys suggest and still it wasn't enough to find someone who could really help.

So the next time to get a 'free review' from 5 or 6 of 'em. No two come back with the same issues. They disagree with each other, they don't move with the times, they even boast of their success in spamming the engines.

I've tried word of mouth and had a long chat with a bloke who was so full of BS I can't even begin to tell you.

What works for one rubbish site which was hopeless to begin with doesn't work for a site that has a more complex issue and requires more than adding a bit of text and slinging up a few links.

There has to be a better way to find someone who can genuinely help.

stefanss · Apr 29, 2013

SillyJokes said:
You know what's missing in this world?

A website where you can list an SEO company you've worked with and make a review of whether they did you any good.

A bit like Tripadvisor, but called something like SEOadvisor.

I can't think of another industry where you basically hand them £1000s and they do stuff and they won't tell you anything but "Be patient, these things take months," and at the end of the year when nothing has happened, you don't get your money back.

Actually I can think of another industry. It reminds me of homeopathic medicine.

That would be really helpful. Especially, because that was a case with my company.. After a months I didn't see the results, and I never got my money back.

Andy Harris · Apr 29, 2013

Perhaps the ultimate answer (and this could apply to various business sectors, not just SEO) is some sort of escrow system of payment.

Taking SEO as the example ...

Client agrees to pay £XXX into an account.
SEO works on the project, having defined realistic expectations of results (within the payment taking system).
If all is good, the SEO gets paid after a period of time, or perhaps in tranches.
If all is not good there becomes a mediation process (perhaps funded by a % of the payment).

Something like that anyway.

ChoosyReviews · Apr 30, 2013

We have a few reviews for SEO companies - and I'd welcome more.

I think we've had about 5 solicitors letters so far - all from one SEO company challenging nearly any negative review!

So it is quite a hassle and we're still a very small site at the moment.

directmarketingadvice · Apr 30, 2013

SillyJokes said:
A website where you can list an SEO company you've worked with and make a review of whether they did you any good.

They could call it

HeyGoogleIveBeenGamingTheResultsPenaliseMe.com

Someone once said: if you know the difference between good advice and bad advice, you don't need the advice. If you don't know the difference between good advice and bad advice, you're screwed.

If you can't know the difference between a good SEO and a bad SEO, you're taking a big risk.

Relying on word of mouth - an endorsement from someone you can truly trust - is the only way to reduce that risk.

Steve

Apr 30, 2013

directmarketingadvice said:
They could call it

HeyGoogleIveBeenGamingTheResultsPenaliseMe.com

Someone once said: if you know the difference between good advice and bad advice, you don't need the advice. If you don't know the difference between good advice and bad advice, you're screwed.

If you can't know the difference between a good SEO and a bad SEO, you're taking a big risk.

Relying on word of mouth - an endorsement from someone you can truly trust - is the only way to reduce that risk.

Steve

I would nearly agree with that,but would the person you trust know whats good.

A company may have served them well ,but not be capable of doing the same for another industry.

Its one hell of a minefied.

My personal experience is that all the SEO I have done has come from recommendations,with the deal usually being sealed when someone has seen the results I have achieved.

fisicx · May 1, 2013

ChoosyReviews said:
I think we've had about 5 solicitors letters so far - all from one SEO company challenging nearly any negative review!

I know that feeling!

They are more concerned with reputation management than they are about providing a decvent service.

MASSEY · May 1, 2013

ChoosyReviews said:
We have a few reviews for SEO companies - and I'd welcome more.

I think we've had about 5 solicitors letters so far - all from one SEO company challenging nearly any negative review!

So it is quite a hassle and we're still a very small site at the moment.

But looking at your site it is not fit for purpose.

You had a negative review for smart traffic posted in january which was followed by 4 positive reviews in ferbruary, two of which were posted on the same day, so it would seem your review system is being manipulated with lies..

There needs to be a review site where the reviews are evidence based.

ukbf0001 · May 1, 2013

There is no absolute way of guaranteeing results. There is no absolute way to protect your website against Google Algo changes.

Therefor you have 2 options (presuming the 3rd option is answer an email from an Indian SEO company).

Option 1 :-
Use someone you know - and have realistic results in mind. I would start by even saying use PPC first to see if your product / service actually converts well. If it does - then work on your SEO and in the long run, if you do it right - organic results will overtake PPC.
Option 2 :-
Do it yourself - if you can put the hours in - and use software to help you.
For SEO rank tracking, website auditing, link research - use powersuite and / or for social media use BuzzBundle . Other tools to consider maybe Market Samurai or Raven

SEO and Social can be done yourself - as long as you have the time and knowledge to learn. Or get someone to set it up for you / explain it - and then do it yourself

As for SEOAdvisor.com - I'd have my doubts

SillyJokes · May 1, 2013

directmarketingadvice said:
They could call it

HeyGoogleIveBeenGamingTheResultsPenaliseMe.com

Someone once said: if you know the difference between good advice and bad advice, you don't need the advice. If you don't know the difference between good advice and bad advice, you're screwed.

If you can't know the difference between a good SEO and a bad SEO, you're taking a big risk.

Relying on word of mouth - an endorsement from someone you can truly trust - is the only way to reduce that risk.

Steve

Steve, I've been trading online for 13 and a half years during that time I've learnt quite a bit about SEO and I can sniff out the goodies from the baddies.

But as Earl says, what works for others, even a trusted friend, won't automatically work for you.

What's most shocking is that you can spend a huge amount on these services and have absolutely nothing to show for it and no recourse to get your money back.

One theory is that they take your money and do absolutely nothing. Some sites will go up, some will go down. Some are happy and enter another years contract, the others quit to be replaced by new ones. Either way the SEO wins because they won't give you your money back.

ukbf0001 · May 1, 2013

Add on top of that - Google will throw in results based on IP location, Google also changes it's algorithm every month - which will probably effect your search engine position. You can have 2 people at opposites ends of the country and they will get different results. Plus Google remembers sites you have visited previously and will be inclined to show those sites rather than new ones. As a business - all you are interested in - is whether my product / service converts to sale online.

So even if you have had good SEO work done - if Google changes it's algo - and the results are affected - whose fault is it ? - you could argue that it is Google.

No one knows the Google Algo - if we did - our sites would be #1. All Matt Cutts will ever say is follow our guidelines, and keep the content fresh and relevant - and offer great service - it gets repeat business.

With the help of software you can (if you have the time and know how) do SEO / Social yourself.
1. Keyword Research (not Google Adword keywords tool) and plenty of it
2. Onsite SEO using a website audit tool
3. Offsite SEO
4. Use Social to engage your customers - one click to post to FB, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube etc

fisicx · May 1, 2013

bluenun said:
Google also changes it's algorithm every month - which will probably effect your search engine position.

Not if you have done things properly.

Sites drop because they were trying to manipulate the search engine results. I don't have a problem with that but the price you pay is potential loss of ranking.

On the other hand there are still plenty of money making niches you can rank well for with only the minimal of SEO. I've got pages that have been at #1 for years - many on sites I haven't touched for years.

directmarketingadvice · May 1, 2013

bluenun said:
There is no absolute way of guaranteeing results.

Except, of course, by offering a money-back guarantee.

Ultimately, it comes down to how is at risk if the outcome isn't achieved. Is it the client? Or the SEO?

It seems most SEO's sales pitch is, "I know how to get your site on to page 1. And, if I'm wrong, I'll keep your money."

Steve

May 1, 2013

SillyJokes said:
What's most shocking is that you can spend a huge amount on these services and have absolutely nothing to show for it and no recourse to get your money back.

Yup nearly as bad as lawyers.

Annoying Donkey · May 1, 2013

sirearl said:
Yup nearly as bad as lawyers.

Nooo! Nobody is that bad!

Rashmy · May 1, 2013

directmarketingadvice said:
They could call it

HeyGoogleIveBeenGamingTheResultsPenaliseMe.com

Someone once said: if you know the difference between good advice and bad advice, you don't need the advice. If you don't know the difference between good advice and bad advice, you're screwed.

If you can't know the difference between a good SEO and a bad SEO, you're taking a big risk.

Relying on word of mouth - an endorsement from someone you can truly trust - is the only way to reduce that risk.

Steve

well said, I totally agree with you, best to do in house seo than go for an agency

ukbf0001 · May 1, 2013

"Except, of course, by offering a money-back guarantee."

Some SEO's are extremely dodgy we all know that - and anyone who guarantees it - is usually talking BS. So why should customers ask for it ?

When Google rolled out Panda and Penguin lots of sites (good and bad) got badly affected. That's not the SEO fault as they have no control over the Algo changes.

If I bought an exhaust that passed the emissions test 6 months ago - and then the Govt changed the emissions criteria, which meant I then failed it - I dont think the exhaust company would give me my money back somehow.

Which is why my advice is - with a bit of software help to do the work for you - you can manage it - especially the software that's available for social media management

ukbf0001 · May 1, 2013

fisicx said:
Not if you have done things properly.

Sites drop because they were trying to manipulate the search engine results. I don't have a problem with that but the price you pay is potential loss of ranking.

On the other hand there are still plenty of money making niches you can rank well for with only the minimal of SEO. I've got pages that have been at #1 for years - many on sites I haven't touched for years.

(Some) "Sites drop because they were trying to manipulate the search engine results. " Others go down naturally when Google changes the algo.

Also - as said Google will give you different results for the same search criteria (source David Naylor I believe) , So if you have a site that ranks #1 years after you have added any content (or had any offsite SEO) then the chances are that A. No one else is competing or searching on that keyword /phrase and B. Google is showing you results based on what you have previously searched on.

PM me the keywords and I'll be happy to get the list of monthly searches plus the competing websites etc (my guess - and it's only a hunch) is that the KEI will be very very low

ukbf0001 · May 1, 2013

On these forums far too much today

directmarketingadvice · May 1, 2013

bluenun said:
"Except, of course, by offering a money-back guarantee."

Some SEO's are extremely dodgy we all know that - and anyone who guarantees it - is usually talking BS. So why should customers ask for it ?

Because the alternative is that they, the customers, are the ones betting on your promise you can do the job.

When Google rolled out Panda and Penguin lots of sites (good and bad) got badly affected. That's not the SEO fault as they have no control over the Algo changes.

Isn't it?

Let's be honest, not all SEOs were equally affected by these updates. The spammier the SEO, the more likely their clients were to suffer.

So, if we are to look at the statement that it's "not the SEO's fault", whose fault is it?

The writing has been on the wall for years. I know because I've had conversations during that time with an SEO friend where we both predicted google would do this.

If SEOs were, during this time, basing their work on the very links google were certain to discredit, what does that tell us?

Did they tell their clients that there methods were only one step ahead of google?

But this isn't particularly relevant. If the guarantee is rankings achieved, and held for a certain length of time (say, a few months) - rather than rankings held forever - these updates only impact the SEO if they happen before that time is up.

But it seems SEOs don't want to bear the risk they'll get busted by google. They want the client to take that risk instead.

Seems wrong, IMO.

Steve

ukbf0001 · May 1, 2013

Human nature - people want #1 and will pay for it - it cant be guaranteed - especially for high competing keywords - not without spending lot of 1000's £'s (which customers dont want to spend) - so dodgy SEO says I'll do it, by not sticking to Google guidelines - and when the customer gets stung - they are surprised

- there were some allegedly bonafide websites caught up in it as well.

SEO's cannot guarantee #1 unless they know there is hardly any keyword competition for it. Even then it can take months.

When I get the 'SEO email' I always ask what happens if my rankings go down or my reputation damaged - will they pay me compensation - there is never an answer. In my humble opinion Social Media marketing / management / monitoring etc done well will get a better conversion as the level of trust is greater.

JonathanSEO · May 1, 2013

bluenun said:
In my humble opinion Social Media marketing / management / monitoring etc done well will get a better conversion as the level of trust is greater.

What do you mean by conversion rate?

Cookie Consent

Essential

Analytics

Marketing

Needed: A SEO company review site

NicholasTaylor

NicholasTaylor

MASSEY

Suzuki

Metalfrogboss

ChoosyReviews

MASSEY

ukbf0001

ukbf0001

ukbf0001

ukbf0001

ukbf0001

ukbf0001