Business Link is dead error riddled Gov.uk site takes over

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

For some bizarre reason the useful Business Link web site has been closed down and replace with ...

https://www.gov.uk/

Now do be careful with this site as it seems to list Registering for Self Assessment under Limited Company and asks you to ....

Before you register

You'll need your:

National Insurance number
personal contact details - eg address
business details - eg business address, date you started self-employment or joined a partnership

Clearly this is incorrect if you have a limited company.

Not a good start.

Do you think this is money well spend?

What do you think of the new site?

Nuno · Oct 19, 2012

Sounds just same old same old. I think the last site got taken down because it was a little expensive to run, about £35million a year or something (might be wrong, could be £35 billion or trillion,

), and so they might have cut corners on this one.
Maybe 50% right information for only £17.5million a year. Bargain.

(Although in fairness I do find the VAT/ Self assessment/Companies House sites easy to use).

KM-Tiger · Oct 19, 2012

elainec100@cheapaccounting said:
Now do be careful with this site as it seems to list Registering for Self Assessment under Limited Company and asks you to ....

That's a bad mistake that muddies where it should clarify.

That said, as a project I think it's moving in the right direction.

David Griffiths · Oct 19, 2012

The HMRC site contains all the information that is necessary. The www.gov.uk should merely signpost links to the relevant section of the HMRC or other relevant sites and shouldn't give advice or information

There will be some areas that need expanding but where the information is held on other government sites duplication is wasteful, and incorrect duplication is inexcusable

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

I wonder if the HMRC web team have now undone all of those links they had to the Business Link site and put the links back to the HMRC site.

Such a lot of IT spend - no one would ever believe we were in recession

Philip Hoyle · Oct 19, 2012

Aargh it's worse than that. Just had a very brief look and found this howler:-

"You want to pay a dividend of £900. Divide £900 by 9, which gives you a dividend tax credit of £100. Pay £900 to the shareholder - but add the £100 tax credit and record a total of £1,000 in your company accounts."

https://www.gov.uk/running-a-limited-company/taking-money-out-of-a-limited-company

Philip Hoyle · Oct 19, 2012

And another

"a profit and loss account, which shows how much money the company has received and spent and how much profit it has made"

I didn't know that companies could produce accounts on the cash basis.

and

"notes about the accounts, if you want to give more information"

So the notes are voluntary now are they?

https://www.gov.uk/prepare-file-annual-accounts-for-limited-company/prepare-annual-accounts

This looks to be another fiasco in the making.

Philip Hoyle · Oct 19, 2012

Oh my!

"gains on assets that youve sold for more than theyre worth"

https://www.gov.uk/prepare-file-annual-accounts-for-limited-company/prepare-a-company-tax-return

So there's no need to declare any asset sales where you sold them for what they're worth!!!

This is crazy!!!!!!

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

OMG - let's see if we can Sift involved to get this DANGEROUS information off line asap

I'll tweet that nice man Dan Martin - he knows some people but I think he is in the Pitch today!

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

I think we need to record all of the errors here. I have tweeted [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]@[/FONT]MTBracken

Been told that he is responsible for it.

fisicx · Oct 19, 2012

It's also got an appalling search engine

And all the old useful stuff about setting up a business/website has gone missing.

And the interface/UI is horrible.

It says that the site replaces direct.gov but if you want a tax disc for your car, guess where it takes you....

Yuk, yuk, yuk.

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

And this is misleading ....

You mustn't make a dividend payment if it means the company won't be able to pay its bills.

https://www.gov.uk/running-a-limited-company/taking-money-out-of-a-limited-company

Anna Chandley · Oct 19, 2012

Another error on aligning the first years accounts and corporation tax returns on https://www.gov.uk/first-company-accounts-and-return

For a company which incorporated on 12/5/11 but did not start business activities until 5/7/11 it suggests the following CT returns are required

"To align your reporting dates, you send 2 tax returns:

1 for the period before the company started business activities (12 May 2011 to July 4 2011)
1 for the period between the company starting business and the companys accounting reference date (5 July 2011 to 31 May 2012)"

Anna

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

My latest tweet ...

@mtbracken @gdsteam with respect Mr Bracken the errors are piling up. I think you should remove it and get a expert team to check it!

@mtbracken is ....

Digital Director. All things open, data and digital in UK and beyond.
London · http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

Keep the errors coming team - we'd make a great combined testing team wouldn't we.

Anna Chandley · Oct 19, 2012

elainec100@cheapaccounting said:
And this is misleading ....

You mustnt make a dividend payment if it means the company wont be able to pay its bills.

https://www.gov.uk/running-a-limited-company/taking-money-out-of-a-limited-company

Even worse on this page is

"You want to pay a dividend of £900. Divide £900 by 9, which gives you a dividend tax credit of £100. Pay £900 to the shareholder - but add the £100 tax credit and record a total of £1,000 in your company accounts"

Who on earth wrote this rubbish!

Anna

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

I've just posted about this on the blog .....

http://www.cheapaccounting.co.uk/blog/index.php/breaking-new-gov-uk-site-riddled-with-errors/

Most importantly for me is ....

what do I do when a client says to me that I am wrong because that it not what it says on the .Gov.uk web site?

David Griffiths · Oct 19, 2012

elainec100@cheapaccounting said:
Most importantly for me is ....

what do I do when a client says to me that I am wrong because that it not what it says on the .Gov.uk web site?

Point them to this thread - and no doubt there will be others!

businessfunding · Oct 19, 2012

Interesting to see that they are favouring Barclays as business finance provider.

A mere shadow of the Business Link site - why waste all that information?

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

Love this one ....

You must keep 2 copies of the voucher - 1 for your personal tax return and 1 for your company records.

https://www.gov.uk/running-a-limited-company/taking-money-out-of-a-limited-company

Oh gawd this is terrible

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

And ...

Directors loans

If you take more money out of a company than youve put in - and it isnt salary or a dividend - its called a directors loan.

Now how about calling it a salary or expenses reimbursed ....

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

I'm loving this game ...

https://www.gov.uk/prepare-file-annual-accounts-for-limited-company
Overview

At the end of its financial year, your limited company must prepare full (statutory) annual accounts.
You then use this information to:

send accounts to Companies House
send a Company Tax Return to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC)
pay Corporation Tax - or tell HMRC that your limited company doesnt owe any

Full accounts DO NOT get filed at Companies House!

Philip Hoyle · Oct 19, 2012

And theres more..

https://www.gov.uk/running-a-limited-company/company-and-accounting-records

"How long to keep company records

You must keep company records for at least 3 years"

But on HMRC webpage is says 6 years!!

Philip Hoyle · Oct 19, 2012

and

"Accounting records you must keep

You must keep accounting records that include:

all money received and spent by the company"

So no need to record unpaid invoices then???

Have they changed to cash basis and not told anyone?

https://www.gov.uk/running-a-limited-company/company-and-accounting-records

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

I do hope that people do not rely on the gov.uk site - it is dangerous!

Philip Hoyle · Oct 19, 2012

https://www.gov.uk/tax-when-your-company-sells-assets

Indexation is worked out in the example on the asset cost only, not on the incidental costs of purchase, i.e. stamp duty etc.

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

I love this one - how about you ...

From here :

https://www.gov.uk/limited-company-formation/register-your-company

bottom of page ...

Where to send your form

The address you need is on the form.

That must be the most useless bit of info on a Govt web site

ROFLMAO

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

This is great comedy value ....

Welcome to GOV.UK

The new place to find government services and information
Simpler, clearer, faster

I would add to their strap line ...

Simpler, clearer, faster and often inaccurate

Philip Hoyle · Oct 19, 2012

More meaningless weasel words

https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/when-not-to-charge-vat

"When not to charge VAT

You cant charge VAT on exempt or out of scope items.
Exempt

Exempt goods or services are supplies that you:

cant charge VAT on"

Brilliant!!

Tom Egerton · Oct 19, 2012

Agree with David Griffiths. Business Link was an expensive quango to run and served very little useful purpose in life. They employed highly paid staff (by my standards) and hired the most expensive hotels to run their seminars. All of the information was a duplication of what you could find using Google or merely using the HMRC website. For tricky questions, people will just have to pay for advice like I do when I want a tap washer changed or electrical equipment repaired.

Haven't bothered to read the new (flawed) website but good riddance to another burden on the public purse.

Walkol · Oct 19, 2012

Philip Hoyle said:
"When not to charge VAT

You cant charge VAT on exempt or out of scope items.
Exempt

Exempt goods or services are supplies that you:

cant charge VAT on"

Brilliant!!

HA! That is an absolute stonker.

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

Why is there a section on Charities and Tax Under Business Tax

https://www.gov.uk/browse/business/business-tax

Charities are not businesses

businessfunding · Oct 19, 2012

Tom Egerton said:
Agree with David Griffiths. Business Link was an expensive quango to run and served very little useful purpose in life. They employed highly paid staff (by my standards) and hired the most expensive hotels to run their seminars. All of the information was a duplication of what you could find using Google or merely using the HMRC website. For tricky questions, people will just have to pay for advice like I do when I want a tap washer changed or electrical equipment repaired.

Haven't bothered to read the new (flawed) website but good riddance to another burden on the public purse.

The external operations of Business Link and its website are 2 different things.

The advisory service was a very mixed bag (basically luck of the draw on how clued in your advisor was); the website was a fantastic static information tool and was, presumably, virtually free to run once assembled. Why change it
?

Jenni384 · Oct 19, 2012

Dear lord!

It's such a shame that they scrapped the old BL site - what a waste of good info.

Those errors would be laughable if people weren't going to rely on that as true. This government gets worse!

David Griffiths · Oct 19, 2012

Tom Egerton said:
Haven't bothered to read the new (flawed) website but good riddance to another burden on the public purse.

I tend to suspect that all of those highly paid staff might just be employed somewhere else in the public sector.

elaine@cheapaccounting · Oct 19, 2012

A tweet from gov.uk ....

@gdsteam: @cheapaccounting We work with HMRC and Companies House to develop our content and look at any issues flagged via our feedback channel

Oh gawd

Philip Hoyle · Oct 19, 2012

What's more annoying is that it took months/year to get the Business Link website corrected after numerous errors were found years ago when it first started. Now all that good content is just chucked aside and we have to start again. What an absolute waste. The people in charge need taking to task for this.

Employment Law Clinic · Oct 19, 2012

I just looked at the about pages, expecting it to say something along the lines of "these pages are a guide only, and you should always check the law or obtain professional advice", but instead: https://www.gov.uk/support/about-govuk#is-govuk-up-to-date

"All government departments work very closely with the Government Digital Service to make sure all information on GOV.UK is accurate and up to date [yeah, right ]. If you have concerns about anything you've read on GOV.UK then please use the link for feedback at the bottom of every page."

As BL & Direct.gov did have some pages that gave bad advice on employment law, I expect to find the same there... just checked, and while most of it is written for the employee (ex-Direct, not BL guidance), it's still wrong: a calculator on holiday pay is based on hours worked, although it appears not to matter if this was worked in the last week or the last decade

Karl Limpert

Tom Egerton · Oct 19, 2012

David Griffiths said:
I tend to suspect that all of those highly paid staff might just be employed somewhere else in the public sector.

Sadly, have to agree.

Philip Hoyle · Oct 19, 2012

https://www.gov.uk/selling-your-business-your-responsibilities/limited-company

In a page about selling a limited company, it's saying that you have to tell the staff and transfer the VAT registration number. Surely that's only if your limited company sells the business? If you personally sell the limited company, then the staff and VAT registration are automatically transferred because the employer and VAT registered trader continues without break.

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