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Do I have to return bootleg product

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kulture

kulture

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    • Aug 11, 2007
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    www.kultureshock.co.uk
    I recently purchased Windows 7 and received the discs (box etc). Unfortunately on inspection I, and two local dealers, have confirmed that the disc are counterfeit and thus are pirate copies.

    I have contacted the seller and he has refunded me immediately. However he has asked me to return the discs. On one e-mail he said it was so that he can get his money back from his supplier, but on another e-mail he requested that I did not use the product key, because he wanted to use it himself.

    No I know that for counterfeit money, I should NOT return it but hand it over to the Police. What should I do with the discs? Should I return them, so he could possibly re-sell or use illegally? Or should I destroy them? Or is there some body that I should send them to?
     
    Yes, if you KNOW that they are counterfeit then you don't want to be assisting in criminal activities because that is criminal!
     
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    I think you will find they do belong to the seller and that you have no right to keep them. Just because they may/may not be counterfiet, doesn't give you the right to hang onto them. had he not refunded then fine, but he has, so the goods belong to him.

    His reasons for wanting them back are not your concern, and you should either pass them on to the relevant authority, or return them. Keeping them is not an option.
     
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    I would send them to your local Trading Standards. It is their responsibility to keep counterfeit goods away from the public. I would then write to both MS and the seller telling them where the evidence/disks can be collected.
     
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    OldWelshGuy said:
    His reasons for wanting them back are not your concern,
    Click to expand...

    But if I have good reason to believe that he will commit a crime if I return the goods, am I not aiding and abbeting?

    Who would be the correct authority to send the goods to? MS just have a form to report, and so do FAST. Neither say what to do with the actual goods.
     
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    I think I should also point out that I have NOT used the discs, nor will I ever use them. I also have no intention of selling them or passing them on to anyone other than a relevant authority, unless I have to return them to the seller.
     
    Last edited:
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    kulture said:
    But if I have good reason to believe that he will commit a crime if I return the goods, am I not aiding and abbeting?

    Who would be the correct authority to send the goods to? MS just have a form to report, and so do FAST. Neither say what to do with the actual goods.
    Click to expand...

    How about Trading standards?
     
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    I spoke to FAST and they said I should send the software off to Microsoft and they will send a letter confirming (or not) that it is pirated. If it is genuine (which it is not) they will return it.


    They said I could then send a copy of this letter to the seller and if he is genuine, and was likewise conned, then he can use the letter to claim from HIS supplier. And so forth up the chain.
     
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    They do not have any legal powers. Their advice made sense. Both morally and reasonably. Only Microsoft can be the final judge whether the discs are fake or not. And it they are fake then the party injured directly is Microsoft (and then us through increased prices).

    Microsoft also offer to give a free licence if they receive this software and say that this is a high quality fake (which it is). I bet they don't give the free licence though.
     
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    It's an offense to send something you know is counterfeit through the mail system. The best thing for you to do is to hand them over to trading standards and they will destroy them or send them off to microsoft.

    Trading standards would give you a formal letter which can be passed onto your supplier to let them know reasons for destroying item and this would be able to be used for them to report to their supplier.
     
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    You got the money back, move on. If you want to return them to him, then do so - after all, there is a small chance he did buy them genuinely, and he's been ripped off - so why deny him the chance to get his money back, in the same way he refunded you.

    If you don't want to send them back - fine. Shred them if it worries you. Why spend your cash and phone bills on something that just doesn't matter. If you have firm beliefs on these things, then go with them. However - buying software from anywhere other than a real dealer especially if it's cheap does rather suggest it's dodgy. If you want a genuine copy, buy from a dealer you know.

    It's more annoying when you buy a real brand new copy of windows for a new machine and after a week or so, it suddenly announces it's a non-genuine copy until you re-enter all the details again.
     
    Upvote 0
    I returned it to MS. MS will validate the copy and send a letter confirming its a fake. The letter is then all the original seller needs to get his money back if he bought it in good faith.

    That way the fake goods are out of the system, the original seller, if innocent, gets a chance to reclaim his loss too.

    That said, I note that the seller is continuing to sell.....
     
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    I would be curious to know why this seller thought he had the right to resell them, given the rather unlikely assumption that he didn't know they were fakes? As far as I know, software doesn't come under the same kind of legislation as most other goods, as it is not sold to the purchaser, but licensed, and therefore only someone agreed to by MS would be able to agree to license it to the purchaser (ie you). Clearly this guy wouldn't be, so he'd have just bought a batch off a white van or something similar, and would have reasonable doubt that the software was legitimate. There'd be no real defence against accusations of counterfeiting or selling counterfeit products.
     
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    When software is sealed (shrunk wrapped) and in a case where there is a Microsoft seal which looks unbroken, it is impossible to know for a fact that the software is fake. Only when you break the seal and look at the discs can you verify this.

    Unfortunately when you break the seal, you can no longer sell the software. It is possible that a company can buy up a batch from a bankrupt company. Without breaking the seal how can you tell.
     
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    From memory MS provide a telephone number on the packaging that you can call if you are unsure if it's genuine. As usual it's buyer beware - if they're selling it for a fiver, it's not likely to be legit!
     
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    MS provide forms for reporting fake software. They also provide an address for retuning said software.

    I take issue regarding your statement "buyer beware". Amazon is a respectable selling platform and is expected to sell legitimate software. The price was below RRP, but this is not unusual. Amazon itself is selling one version at a 40% discount. I presume you are not saying that Amazon are also selling fakes, just because they are cheap?

    Any buyer has the right to expect to purchase items fit for purpose, and as described. Any seller has the right to sell sealed, genuine software for whatever price they want.
     
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    On a side issue, the seller is still demanding that I return the software so that "they can tell Microsoft". An interesting new excuse to get the software back. They were a bit upset when I told them that I had already sent the software on to Microsoft, and are now demanding my Microsoft incident number and proof that I sent it etc.

    When I get the reply from Microsoft (if ever!) I will forward it on. In the meantime I look forward to the idiot trying to sue me...
     
    Upvote 0
    kulture said:
    MS provide forms for reporting fake software. They also provide an address for retuning said software.

    I take issue regarding your statement "buyer beware". Amazon is a respectable selling platform and is expected to sell legitimate software. The price was below RRP, but this is not unusual. Amazon itself is selling one version at a 40% discount. I presume you are not saying that Amazon are also selling fakes, just because they are cheap?

    Any buyer has the right to expect to purchase items fit for purpose, and as described. Any seller has the right to sell sealed, genuine software for whatever price they want.
    Click to expand...

    I'm sure they provide all of the above.

    That's the whole point of 'buyer beware' - the onus is on you when buying something to have some 'common sense' (admittedly not so common anymore!) ... if someone came up to you trying to sell you a brand new Mercedes for £1000 you'd surely think something was fishy right? If you buy it and it turns out to be stolen, you don't get let off and get to keep the car, it gets seized and you get told 'you should have known better than to buy it at that price'. I don't know how much these items were bought for so I'm not saying that's the case in this instance, especially if you couldn't see them before buying.

    Fingers crossed a new copy of the software (legitimate this time!) is winging its way through the post right now as a 'thank you' from MS right? :)
     
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