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oldeagleeye

oldeagleeye

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Jul 16, 2008
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Essex
Can anyone suggest a better alternative to the Dell Poweredge small business server. What attracted me besides price is that Dell offer same day on-site support from as little as £10 a month.

I am looking for a package deal with the following rough spec which is typical of a modern doctors surgery with about 6 parners and 4 support staff.

Small busines server running ms 2008 + mailbox preferably with an on-site support package.

10 workstations all hopefully on a wireless network which leads me to a question.

When I say workstation I mean a flatscreen 19inch moniter + keyborad & mouse or is there more to it than that.

Appreciate any help and advices. We are looking at a 100 packages.

Cheers

Rob
 
oldeagleeye said:
Can anyone suggest a better alternative to the Dell Poweredge small business server. What attracted me besides price is that Dell offer same day on-site support from as little as £10 a month.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't consider using anyone but the big boys for a system like this. Dell or HP.

oldeagleeye said:
When I say workstation I mean a flatscreen 19inch moniter + keyborad & mouse or is there more to it than that.
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Not sure what you mean here. You're still going to need a basic PC workstation, even if its diskless. Are you looking at a 'thin-client' system like Citrix?

If you're thinking of equiping 100 such offices, you might like to investigate a 'cloud' solution - big data centre and everyone on a thin-client workstation. On-site support becomes less of a headache.
 
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Thanks Alan but do not believe in Cloud Computing where confidential and critical data is concerned. I take a look at HP.

Pentangle. I would have a lot more confidence in a company with a web site and one which specialised in hardware solutions and didn't wander off into areas like web design & seo etc.

Thanks for your PM anyway Mike but your obviously an Internet man and I don't believe in the Internet where my clients security is concerned. I want it kept srictly in-house apart from a very special off-site data protection service that is part of our package.

Rob
 
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Hi Rob,

How am I very obviously an internet man?

We have many customers and with none of them do we transmit ANY personal information across the internet. They also keep their data in their own datacentres, with secure backup and fully controlled access in all cases. Indeed, we have SC clearance for some sites.

Our company is split down the middle, and provides IT support from one side, and web design from another. Ne'er the twain shall meet (which is why I don't write websites!)

Cheers,
Mike.
 
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We generally recommend to our customers that they look at both the HP Proliant ML110 G6 (Xeon edition) and ML350 G6 as we have found both to be excellent machines for use by SMEs. They seem particularly good value when coupled with Small Business Server 2008 and are very, very reliable in our experience.

On the flip side, we also recommend avoiding the HP Proliant ML115 which has a dodgy RAID disk controller built into the motherboard.
 
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Ole' EagleEye, I can appreciate your concerns with Cloud Computing, however please understand that provided you go with a firm you can trust, data will always be safer in a Datacentre than lying in a local office somewhere. The chances of the servers getting stolen are much greater when you don't have 24/7 on-site security etc..

Saying that, we of course still cater to customers who want to keep everything in house. Is there any reason why you don't want to choose Dell? I have had bad experienced with multiple HP servers in the past and would never buy from them again.

Our company provides hosted (cloud), non-hosted and hybrid services.

We have our own in-house-built database software which can be tailored towards your business needs, and would be perfect for a doctor's sugery. We can also offer a "Hosted Microsoft Exchange" service that can be accessed from anywhere. All our hosted solutions could connect to your local office via an encrypted Virtual Private Network (VPN) so no-one else could intercept the contents. But maybe this isn't what you are looking for... :)

HTH
 
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Sorry Mike that was not meant as a criticsm.

HTH.

The problem I have with the Cloud coincept is that the client always has to rely on an Internet connection as indeed with these remote monitering/repair services. In my experience however when a computer crashes and won't even boot up what use is the modem. Off site data back up then is fine but to put everyting in the same basket welll frankly I don't think too much of that idea.

There is however another important factor for wanting to keep everyday data on site. We will be running a regular on-site IT maintenance program as part of our Business Continuity package as I want to establish a face to face relationship with our clients who care nothing about the Internet other than it is a tool. In short while the rest of the IT world are offering Remote assistance we will be offering that old fashioned concept called Personal service. An old concept it may be but when you translate it into today's highly streesed world it means 'hassle free' and that is an almost pricres USP.

And finally. I note HTH that you are a dell partner and I am impressed with their own support package which we could use as emergency cover. I am probably going to go for that.

I'll let you all know precisely what we are looking for and it you can supply at the same price as dell direct I'll consider it.

Thanks all for your imput.
 
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oldeagleeye said:
There is however another important factor for wanting to keep everyday data on site. We will be running a regular on-site IT maintenance program as part of our Business Continuity package as I want to establish a face to face relationship with our clients who care nothing about the Internet other than it is a tool. In short while the rest of the IT world are offering Remote assistance we will be offering that old fashioned concept called Personal service. An old concept it may be but when you translate it into today's highly streesed world it means 'hassle free' and that is an almost pricres USP.
Click to expand...

But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Remote support is used for a number of reasons:

  • It's cost effective
  • In most cases it is rapid. Quicker than a person going there.

Personal service is a red herring, that's to do with how a company deals with its clients, not how they go about doing the tasks in hand. Customer satisfaction is gained mostly from a rapid and cost effective solution to a problem.

And a note of caution about Dell's service. The SLA is impressive, but note that it refers to a response time, not a fix time. Not much good if the technician turns up bang on time, diagnoses a faulty power supply and then says "Sorry we are out of stock of those until next week". (True story)
 
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KM tto say that perosnal service a red herring is abdolute crap.To say that cloud computing is cost-effective is absolute crap. If the system goes down and you couldn't get access to medical records .far fromit.

Imagine the huge cost of litigation problem because the Doc cant get access to medical records and prescribes the wrong drugs.

You guys that promote the Cloud are living cloud cockoo land when it comes to access to critcal data and you know it.

Rob
 
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KM tto say that perosnal service a red herring is abdolute crap.To say that cloud computing is cost-effevtive is absolute crap.If the system goes down and you couldn't get access to medical records - far from it.

Imagine the huge cost of litigation because the Doc cant get access to medical records and prescribes the wrong drugs
You guys that promote the Cloud are living cloud cockoo land when it comes to access to critcal data and you know it.

Rob
 
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oldeagleeye said:
KM tto say that perosnal service a red herring is abdolute crap.To say that cloud computing is cost-effective is absolute crap. If the system goes down and you couldn't get access to medical records .far fromit.

Imagine the huge cost of litigation problem because the Doc cant get access to medical records and prescribes the wrong drugs.

You guys that promote the Cloud are living cloud cockoo land when it comes to access to critcal data and you know it.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you would like to read more carefully and keep your insults to yourself - I'm trying to help you here.

Let's try some bullet points:

  • Remote support and cloud computing are not the same thing.
  • Remote support will give your clients a better, faster service.
  • Personal service has nothing to do with the decision to use remote support or not. Both are possible.

If you are really talking about systems where non-availability is life threatening, then you are going to need both high-availability and redundancy built in to both the system design and hardware.
 
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Rob,

Having read this thread several times, PM'd you and written about our services here, I feel you would get the best idea by at least meeting one of us on this thread that can offer the services you require. That way we could spend more than the 30 seconds it takes to read responses here and cast aside some pre-conceptions on both sides about the technology, services, support and such-like.

I don't specifically mean it should be me who meets you (although i'm more than happy to), but SOMEONE should, as you should benefit from more time to be able to discuss things and understand fully such terms as "remote support", "the cloud", etc.

There are several guys on here talking quite a bit of sense, and whilst there are a myriad of ways to skin a cat and you should always keep your eyes open when purchasing IT, it's also quite obvious to most of us here that a lot of these terms need to have their concepts explained in full so that the full business benefits of these can be explained.

As an example, take "cloud computing" - Now, whilst i'm not specifically trumpeting it on this thread, you have made a sweeping statement about it not being cost-effective. However, there are many reasons why it *CAN* be cost-effective. For instance, if you know what you're doing as an IT company and have a sizeable enough userbase and a sensible budget, you can make cloud computing WAY more reliable and effective than computing locally, and many companies are using cloud computing to these ends.

For what it's worth, I would support KM-Tiger's comments on this thread, despite him potentially being a business competitor.

Incidentally, despite my current website being "in between sites", I can confirm that we are also Dell premium partners and can offer the sort of deal you talked about. :)

Best regards,
Mike.
 
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Tiger. I honestly didn't mean to be insulting. All I meant is that to me at least the guys that are promoting cloud computing and remote support have an obvious self interest and yes I do know that there is a difference between those two services. I am not a computer tecky however my ability is in spotting niche markets so perhaps you can explain to me.

As regards of Remote Support. (1) What use if the computer crashes (2) Doesn't this service mean that whoever supplies the service has access to the customers desktop. If so to me that poses a serious security risk.

As far as security goes. While I have had other businesses running alongside I have been involved in the security business for over 30 years and I am not talking high street burglar alarms or security guards. I am talking about the sort of kit used by security services. Most of which will be classified as secret for the next 2-3 years until it becomes commercialy available and that insider knowledge that has formed my opinion on cloud computing.

I also quote the Director of the FBI (Internet Division) " The Internet is not safe. It is not a safe medium for banking or shopping and anyone that believes it is only has to read the newspapers or watch TV. 12 year old children hacking into banks and transferring millions of dollars" etc. etc.

I don't care what the general public opinion is the Internet is not safe and it never will be for one simple reason. IT is an enigma that started life as a communications medium and information provider and the fact that it can be accessed by hundreds of million people is completely at odds with security.

In fact where the body corporate is concerned security is a joke. I was invited to an 'Internet Security' seminar a while ago and spent 2 hrs listening to all the talk of firewall's and password protection. The huge costs of 'incidents' and how important all round security was and then what happens. The delegates take their lunch break most shunning the disgusting curry on offer on a trolley in favour of the pub opposite. Luckily I had beaten them all to it and I stood there with a pint in hand in utter amazement as I listened to them chat amongst themselves.

"We have 3 levels of security" pipes up one guy. "Trouble is that we have to keep the passwords simple in case people forget them so it's just company name - telephone number and day of the week". Then another guys pipes up laughing. "That is almost exactly what we do only the 3rd level is my name" and thus it went on and on. All of them giving out their access codes - and here is the punch line guy's. They were all still wearing their Delegate tags on their lapels with both their own and company name on it. What a lot of plonkers.

As for Cloud Computing. How can you put a padlock on a ball of fluffy white cumulus. I'll stick to a metal box instead thanks. Not that the industry will miss my few quid.:eek:

Thanks for the PM's guys. I'll get back to you shortly.
 
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OEE

I have used HP server for last year from a company called Hardsoft computing and have good backup service, on other posts HP servers seemed to come out better than Dell (who also have just delayed payment to their suppliers by quite a long term)

Why wireless it slowes down the system quite considerably and has potential security issues
 
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Thanks Chris. Particuarly about the wireles bit. I have my own didcated modem but I can still pick uo wireless signals nearby. Some of which are not protected.

Rob
 
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Rob,

I promote cloud services. I have no self interest.

For the last two months, I've been using Google's App system (Email, Calendar, Contacts, Documents) all stored in the cloud. And you know what? It's f*king marvellous!

Having said that... when dealing with large files, or regularly making changes to files, the speed of your Internet connection is a barrier.

You mention that the cloud is unreliable (using the medical profession as an example). When was the last time your Internet was unavailable?

My personal preference for speed is to have a system in house as well by the way. I'm not convinced the cloud is the b-all and end all. But it's certainly an eye opener for the way one can operate a business.

In terms of support, I know that Chris (DWebs) rates the Dell support very highly. In fact, I don't think he buys from any other provider purely on the basis that they're **** hot when it comes to hardware issues.

Me, I'm not that bothered to be honest. It's usually myself that's sorting the issues on-site with clients, and I'm happy to lead the client by the hand to the equipment that's a good deal at the time, and appropriate to their requirements.

My last word on the issue is that when you do eventually decide what you want to do, don't make the mistake many IT companies in Edinburgh are doing at the moment. They quote a server, buy the server, plonk it in and leave it.

Get that server, and stress test it as much as possible, run diagnostics on the brand new memory, check the hard disks, etc. and make sure that the hardware works properly before you put ANY business data on it at all.


Touching on remote support issues you raised about security, there are a number of different solutions for different clients. We use LogMeIn for the clients that have an established relationship and trust us. It gives us instant access to the desktops whenever we need it, or whenever they want.

Our RealVNC single click solution on the other hand can only be established by the person sitting at the desktop, so from that sense, it's more appropriate for ad-hoc work with new clients or the home punters we deal with.


I have a strong feeling the stuff you spout is pure ignorance. I don't mean that in an offensive way, I mean that you don't actually understand the technical stuff behind the security layers you can apply. Perhaps if you read up on these techniques, and apply them in your own business, you wont be so against certain emerging technologies.

With the right procedures, policies and securities applied, the Internet CAN be safe. The issues though, is how far do you go before the security you apply starts to interfere with the work your employees are trying to do.

There has to be a balance, and sometimes people get the balance bl*ody wrong - in both directions.
 
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oldeagleeye said:
Can anyone suggest a better alternative to the Dell Poweredge small business server. What attracted me besides price is that Dell offer same day on-site support from as little as £10 a month.

Rob
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree with the other posters here. I really don't think you want to be maintaining 100 exchange servers for 1000 employees - and I'd be rather sceptical of anything Dell offer for £10 a month.

Exchange prefers to work with SMTP, so if they're all using the domain, they'll be issues as to how email is routed - and you certainly don't want to be maintaining 1000 pop email boxes if time or security is a concern.

Assuming these are all part of the same company, my approach to something like this would be establishing a head office, with a clustered exchange server for fault tolerance, and a web proxy with AV, protocol control & web filtering.

This head office would want a nice fat expensive leased line -min of 10mbps with ADSL failover at a minimum.

I'd then connect the satellite offices with a fatpipe or similar to use dual aggregated ADSL lines for fault tolerance (or 1 SDSL/ 1 ADSL if you can stomach the cost). Stick in a coupe of porky Cisco ASA's configured for failover at head office end, link the whole lot up in a VPN and route *ALL* traffic from satelite offices out through head office where it can be inspected and have policy applied.

Next step would be to lock down the workstations as tighly as possible, wort out your AV join the domain up & maintain pretty much everything through group policy.

Having said that, if the offices are completely standalone, it's a different kettle of fish & will require far more support/maintenance.

I'd be Happy to chat if you're inviting tenders.

Cheers

Richard
0845 3889308
rscc hitchin (I don't seem to be able to post a link yet- so please do google us)
 
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Thanks for your imput Richard. The situation not as complicated as you thought. We are looking at building up a client base of 100 seperate SME's over the next year.

While IT maintenance is only one element of a package it does mean that to include it we are restricted by logistices to 2 high density georaphic areas and that is causing me a headache.

Our main advertising will be national ( Not going to explain why ) and threfore we are bound to get enquiries beyond the bouderies that we have set. I should say I am not too concerned about any revenue earned in those cases. It's is purely PR so that we can claim to be market leader in our niche market.

What attracted me about Dell was that if we could incporate the cost and a new IT set-up for a small business which would include the Dell 4 hr service plan then we could in fact go nationwide. It is either that or sub the service plan out to a local IT firm.

Then of course we have the prob of a small It firm nicking our clients and we see it on here almost every day. A new post about someone planning to set up on their own and asking how they can get around any exclusion clauses in the present employment.

Anyway. Thanks again guys for your imput.

Rob
 
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Thanks Chris.

Do we know if either/both the Dell and HP call out plans can be bought seperately and cover 3rd party kit.

Rob
 
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Hi Rob,

The HP/ Dell warranty/ carepack agreements generally only cover their own new equipment and can be extended to around 7 years.
I have dealt with the HP service devision in the past who took on the support for 3rd party products but that was when we were outsourcing all the hardware support for 35 overseas offices.
If your requirement is small then I would suggest speaking to one of the key service providers who would be able to offer a support contract that took into account the warranty of the equipment and as such kept the costs down.
 
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This thread is quite worrying, setting up doctors surgerys with wireless networks, hoping to set up 100 sites and yet not knowing what kit you need or how to do it????

The NHS have many guidelines for data security as do the Information comission etc. and im pretty certain that wireless isnt on their list of acceptable solutions.

Also NHS contracts are usually sorted in big contract bundles because of the Trusts and Deanerys that the NHS is split into, this applies to hospitals and doctors as its where the funding comes from.
 
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smo said:
This thread is quite worrying, setting up doctors surgerys with wireless networks, hoping to set up 100 sites and yet not knowing what kit you need or how to do it????

The NHS have many guidelines for data security as do the Information comission etc. and im pretty certain that wireless isnt on their list of acceptable solutions.

Also NHS contracts are usually sorted in big contract bundles because of the Trusts and Deanerys that the NHS is split into, this applies to hospitals and doctors as its where the funding comes from.
Click to expand...

Have you read the newspapers today? :)

Incidentally, wireless networks are perfectly adequate for security if implemented correctly.
 
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oldeagleeye said:
Thanks for your imput Richard. The situation not as complicated as you thought. We are looking at building up a client base of 100 seperate SME's over the next year.

While IT maintenance is only one element of a package it does mean that to include it we are restricted by logistices to 2 high density georaphic areas and that is causing me a headache.

Our main advertising will be national ( Not going to explain why ) and threfore we are bound to get enquiries beyond the bouderies that we have set. I should say I am not too concerned about any revenue earned in those cases. It's is purely PR so that we can claim to be market leader in our niche market.

What attracted me about Dell was that if we could incporate the cost and a new IT set-up for a small business which would include the Dell 4 hr service plan then we could in fact go nationwide. It is either that or sub the service plan out to a local IT firm.

Then of course we have the prob of a small It firm nicking our clients and we see it on here almost every day. A new post about someone planning to set up on their own and asking how they can get around any exclusion clauses in the present employment.

Anyway. Thanks again guys for your imput.

Rob
Click to expand...


No worries, I obviously got a bit carried away on that one.

I haven't used Dells service plans, I've had to call them on a few occasions (we always spec HP, but have a few Dell servers to support) and have been less than impressed with being bounced between various departments etc.

With a small company you'll generally get far better flow of support - someone that knows your networks, builds a relationship with your customers (ie they don't dread having to phone them), and most importantly, a small team will have far better visibility over your regular issues so can solve them more quickly.

Anyway, be interested to here how you fare with them if proceeding. Keep us informed :)

Re small companies pinching your customers - can't you write it into your contracts that IT provision must be through yourselves?
 
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SMO. I gave the example of a doctors surgery to give some idea of the type of IT set-up. I didn't want to give away my real market.

I also have a professional IT man coming on board shortly but I wanted to prepare a list of the relevant questions too ask. I have that now. Thanks guys.

Mike - Richard. I am just putting together the SLA for a monthly maintenance/service contract and would welcome your quotes. I will PM you both around 9 am this morning with details.

Thanks again all

Rob
 
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