How much should I be paying my accountant?

shaunatsf · May 28, 2010

Hi,

I am hoping you can help. My question is how much should I be paying my accountant? We have a turnover of approx £500,000 a year and we use sage software and we do our payroll in house. All invoices, purchase receipts, bank statements, etc are given in folders to the account divided by month (invoices) and by company for purchases.

I was hoping the accountants on UKBF or members who have a similar turnover to us could give me an indication of what I should be paying for my end of year filing.

Thanks
Shauna

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

Shauna

That really is like how long is a piece of string.

My suggestion would be to go to tender - see the sticky on how to select an accountant.

Select say 6 to get a quote from.

Write down what you want them to do, what you will provide, the time scales you expect etc etc

Send it out

Set up your selection matrix - price, quality, skills, member of professional body, other services available etc (make this to suit you)

Mark the response to the matrix

Job done

Hope this helps

(would love to be on your list

)

MyAccountantOnline · May 28, 2010

shaunatsf said:
Hi,

I am hoping you can help. My question is how much should I be paying my accountant?
Shauna

Hi Shauna

It really is an impossible question to answer.

You will see an absolutely huge variation in accountants charges just as with any other service provider and thats even if we knew your exact requirements and had much more information about your set up and business.

People often query fees when they feel they are no longer getting value for money so perhaps its time to look around.

Again as with any other service provider you will always find someone who is cheaper.

maxine · May 28, 2010

Hi Shauna

You could use me to do some groundwork for you

www.find-me-an-accountant.com or you can go straight to the questionnaire and I will start working on your requirments

Sorry to plug.. this is the first time I have done this on here but it is beneficial if people want to seek out quotes based on a combination of factors and anonymously too... its free to the Op and anyone else who wants to use to help find an accountant.

Philip Hoyle · May 28, 2010

How long is a piece of string?

As an example, I have two almost identical clients, doing very similar work. One is charged over twice as much as the other. One does their own book-keeping to a high standard, respects the tax laws, gives all information to me on time and in an organised manner, and we have regular communication - the other just inputs numbers in Sage and hopes for the best, always trying on some tax fiddle, always late bringing info to me often screwed up in a carrier bag, and only phones or emails at the last possible time (often outside work hours) in some form of panic. Guess which one pays less?

Besides the practicalities, there's also the aspect of "added value". Just this week, it's turned out that I've saved a client over £10k in tax because of something as simple as drafting an A4 sheet of paper for him to sign several years ago that he wouldn't have known about at the time if I hadn't put it in front of him, and he'd long forgotten about anyway - this week, circumstances transpired that I could get the file, dust it down and produce that piece of paper which has just removed a potential £10k tax bill. Client couldn't believe it, not least because I didn't even charge extra for drafting it all those years ago. Only now does he know what a good accountant he has!!!

If you're happy in other aspects with the way they communicate, the way they offer advice, the speed of service, accessibility, etc., then it could really be false economy to move elsewhere for short-termism of cheaper fees if they turn out not to be so good!

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

Philip Hoyle said:
it could really be false economy to move elsewhere for short-termism of cheaper fees if they turn out not to be so good!

of course cheaper fees can always be much better as well

Depends on the accountant

Zeno · May 28, 2010

elainec100 said:
of course cheaper fees can always be much better as well

Depends on the accountant

And she wonders why she has no pals on Aweb.

dp0848 · May 28, 2010

I love you Elaine!

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

Zeno said:
And she wonders why she has no pals on Aweb.

Well if a simple statement like that means it is the case then good.

The last time I looked it is the 21st century.

It is an age of price comparison web sites for anything from your pet insurance to mortgages. I am sure that this will increase in coverage.

It was only announced last week that supermarkets will be offering legal services - so accounting could be next! That will be an even bigger shock for some.

We have just gone through a huge recession - the country is still in a mess financial and we are facing pretty huge cuts that are likely to touch every household in the country and most if not all businesses

If there are people out there who are not examining all of their costs, reviewing value for money, negotiating better deals then good for them that they can afford to not have to do this.

We could have been called 'value for money accountants' but it hardly rolls off the tongue and doesn't quite have the same marketing message!

Jenni384 · May 28, 2010

elainec100 said:
of course cheaper fees can always be much better as well

Depends on the accountant

Zeno said:
And she wonders why she has no pals on Aweb.

... And David and Jenni laughed out loud

Agree with the other comments - it really is impossible to answer. Philip hit the nail on the head by illustrating the potential differences.

In my experience, clients often think they are better or worse than they are. Some less simple clients to deal with think they present everything just fine (they don't) and just won't change. Others who are a pleasure to deal (both in personality and quality of their records) apologise for not having their things in perfect order and for being a pain - when I wish more clients were like them!

Zeno · May 28, 2010

elainec100 said:
Well if a simple statement like that means it is the case then good.

Don't go getting your knickers in a twist, you know I was kidding. Anyway, you have lots of pals on here which is what matters.

I am actually very impressed with your business model but can't quite figure out how you do it so have not tried to rip it off myself.

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

dp0848 said:
I love you Elaine!

group hug (excluding Zeno of course)

dp0848 · May 28, 2010

elainec100 said:
group hug (excluding Zeno of course)

Yeah, who'd want to hug Zeno???

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

Zeno said:
Don't go getting your knickers in a twist, you know I was kidding. Anyway, you have lots of pals on here which is what matters.

I am actually very impressed with your business model but can't quite figure out how you do it so have not tried to rip it off myself.

I am not really I just like to have a rant. It is a women thing.

Zeno · May 28, 2010

dp0848 said:
Yeah, who'd want to hug Zeno???

I do alright thank you.

dp0848 · May 28, 2010

Zeno said:
I do alright thank you.

Yes, we've all heard about you down at the Post Office pulling the old dears collecting their pensions!

Zeno · May 28, 2010

dp0848 said:
Yes, we've all heard about you down at the Post Office pulling the old dears collecting their pensions!

Each to his own. Old chicks are the best anyway. They know "things" and so long as they remember to pop their teeth out before you get down to business the jobs a good 'un.

Wild Goose · May 28, 2010

Zeno said:
And she wonders why she has no pals on Aweb.

Except for yours truly. Elaine's an old friend

Everyone's so coy about prices, which doesn't much help the OP. I'll set the ball rolling. Our prices are up-front, so I guess we operate a little differently to most: £500k t/o costs £1,447 +VAT for reasonably well presented Sage, or similar double entry, books and £90 for the corporation tax return. Single entry records (eg Excel, manual books) take much more work so they'd be £2,083 +VAT.

Simples!

dp0848 · May 28, 2010

Wild Goose said:
Except for yours truly. Elaine's an old friend

Everyone's so coy about prices, which doesn't much help the OP. I'll set the ball rolling. Our prices are up-front, so I guess we operate a little differently to most: £500k t/o costs £1,447 +VAT for reasonably well presented Sage, or similar double entry, books and £90 for the corporation tax return. Single entry records (eg Excel, manual books) take much more work so they'd be £2,083 +VAT.

Simples!

Up front quoting is best where possible as there can be no arguments at a later date.

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

Wild Goose said:
Elaine's an old friend

less of the old please

Wild Goose · May 28, 2010

elainec100 said:
less of the old please

As if! Zeno tells me you have all your own teeth

GaryMc · May 28, 2010

Zeno said:
Each to his own. Old chicks are the best anyway. They know "things" and so long as they remember to pop their teeth out before you get down to business the jobs a good 'un.

It may be Friday but that is just too much information thank you

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

Zeno said:
Each to his own. Old chicks are the best anyway. They know "things" and so long as they remember to pop their teeth out before you get down to business the jobs a good 'un.

oh dear - just feel on the floor laughing at that one

I had that same conversation with a friend recently. Looking forward to the day I find myself in old folks home.

I said I would sit by the door eyeing up all the fresh blood as they arrived.

I wondered if it was social etiquette to snog with teeth in or out. :|:|

Any advice greatly received as it won't bee too long until they put me in a home.

Zeno · May 28, 2010

Wild Goose said:
Zeno tells me you have all your own teeth

Yes. Not still in her head though...

(Edit: Still bitter about being excluded from the group hug)

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

Wild Goose said:
As if! Zeno tells me you have all your own teeth

yes - all bought and paid for thanks

dp0848 · May 28, 2010

GaryMc said:
It may be Friday but that is just too much information thank you

Well it's Zeno so what do you expect!

Wild Goose · May 28, 2010

dp0848 said:
Up front quoting is best where possible as there can be no arguments at a later date.

Doesn't work with lasagne though. Plenty of tantrums from yours truly when he was ripped off in Leicester Square.

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

I love Fridays on the accounts forum. I don't venture into the other forum much - so they do the same on a Friday?:|

And they say accountants are dull

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

Zeno said:
Yes. Not still in her head though...

(Edit: Still bitter about being excluded from the group hug)

saving special one-to-one hug just for you

when hell freezes over

MyAccountantOnline · May 28, 2010

Zeno said:
Each to his own. Old chicks are the best anyway. They know "things" and so long as they remember to pop their teeth out before you get down to business the jobs a good 'un.

Just reading this and cant stop laughing...you get worse

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

Wild Goose said:
Doesn't work with lasagne though. Plenty of tantrums from yours truly when he was ripped off in Leicester Square.

what - how did you not know the price of lasagne in Leicester Square?

Will I regret asking?

Was it at that little cafe with lots of dishes full of great Italian food but V expensive.

dp0848 · May 28, 2010

elainec100 said:
what - how did you not know the price of lasagne in Leicester Square?

Will I regret asking?

Was it at that little cafe with lots of dishes full of great Italian food but V expensive.

It's a little trap us Londoners set for you northern types.

Zeno · May 28, 2010

You have to wonder what the OP's make of the updates to these threads.

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

dp0848 said:
It's a little trap us Londoners set for you northern types.

I'm a southerner!

From a county where I wear white high heeled shoes

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

Zeno said:
You have to wonder what the OP's make of the updates to these threads.

I know - so unprofessional really but great to let off a bit of steam and be human

Wild Goose · May 28, 2010

elainec100 said:
what - how did you not know the price of lasagne in Leicester Square?

Will I regret asking?

Was it at that little cafe with lots of dishes full of great Italian food but V expensive.

Turn right on the walk between between Eros and Leicester Square

They had a big sign outside saying Lasagne £7.95 but we somehow racked up £90 between us - no alcohol! The chips and rolls were extra and even the alleged salad cost an extra few quid each. Coffee a fiver, service charge 15%.

The lasagne was chewy, so don't go there Elaine. Not with your pearlies.

Wild Goose · May 28, 2010

elainec100 said:
I know - so unprofessional really but great to let off a bit of steam...

Better save that line for the old folks home.

dp0848 · May 28, 2010

Zeno said:
You have to wonder what the OP's make of the updates to these threads.

Probably that we're all nuts!!

elaine@cheapaccounting · May 28, 2010

Wild Goose said:
Turn right on the walk between between Eros and Leicester Square

They had a big sign outside saying Lasagne £7.95 but we somehow racked up £90 between us - no alcohol! The chips and rolls were extra and even the alleged salad cost an extra few quid each. Coffee a fiver, service charge 15%.

The lasagne was chewy, so don't go there Elaine. Not with your pearlies.

why were you having a meal without alcohol :|:|:|

Wild Goose · May 28, 2010

dp0848 said:
Probably that we're all nuts!!

All nuts and no carrot.

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How much should I be paying my accountant?

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