Suppose you came up with the next Google?

old newbie · Feb 7, 2010

With little internet savvy, how would you progress it?

(First post, and joined the forum specifically to ask for some advice.)

OK it wont be as big as Google, but it will be a household internet name.
Take that as a given.

Im mid 50s, run my own business (and have done for 30 years) and would say I was reasonably savvy to the ways of the world; business or otherwise.

My internet tech savvy on the other hand. Well, not so hot. I can work my way round the majority of Office packages quite competently, and Photoshop but Im woefully inadequate in knowledge in just about every area of the internet and ecommerce. One word. Grandpa.

So, the light-bulb moment happens, and there it is, the next ebay / amazon / youtube Global, of course.

You can see the site in action, many millions of hits globally per day, extremely healthy revenue stream think PPC revenue raising as an idea of how income is generated

On the basis that the idea is as described (and you dont think Im a complete nutter!) what would you suggest I do?

ON

cjd · Feb 7, 2010

Do what they all did - build it.

DavidGiant · Feb 8, 2010

I am a web developer.

So what you have is an idea, you think it is the bees knees. It might be, alternatively it might be really flawed. You could float it by me if you want and I can let you know what I think.

You have 2 options. Pay a company to build the website for you. This is a fairly bad idea, it involves a lot of money and you will have to invest a lot in the business before it has a chance to make any money. You would then have to pay people to maintain the website etc. Its not great. The plus side is that you keep 100% of the profits.

Option 2 is to partner with one or many people. It doesn't sound like you currently have much to bring to the table apart from an idea. If someone is going to invest hundreds of hours, you would probably need to bankroll the project, pay for hosting, project resources, trademarking etc. This second option makes it a financially less risky project and easier to maintain in the long run as profits are split between founding members. You also gain access to lots of free advice. The downside is that you would split profits.

With sharing your idea. You will have to tell someone. Your idea sounds like it needs a team to make it. By all means do not broadcast what you plan to do but definitely get in touch with a professional to advise you. They can tell you if your idea has legs and give you advice on how to get it started.

edmondscommerce · Feb 8, 2010

The first thing I would do is some market research to find out if your idea is truly original and also if it will actually fly.

It is incredibly hard to think up something totally new on the internet at the moment

old newbie · Feb 8, 2010

cjd said:
Do what they all did - build it.

Agree.

However that's impossible for me to do on my own.

...which brings me to DavidGiant's excellent and kind reply-

I am a web developer.

So what you have is an idea, you think it is the bees knees. It might be, alternatively it might be really flawed. You could float it by me if you want and I can let you know what I think.

You have 2 options. Pay a company to build the website for you. This is a fairly bad idea, it involves a lot of money and you will have to invest a lot in the business before it has a chance to make any money. You would then have to pay people to maintain the website etc. Its not great. The plus side is that you keep 100% of the profits.

Option 2 is to partner with one or many people. It doesn't sound like you currently have much to bring to the table apart from an idea. If someone is going to invest hundreds of hours, you would probably need to bankroll the project, pay for hosting, project resources, trademarking etc. This second option makes it a financially less risky project and easier to maintain in the long run as profits are split between founding members. You also gain access to lots of free advice. The downside is that you would split profits.

With sharing your idea. You will have to tell someone. Your idea sounds like it needs a team to make it. By all means do not broadcast what you plan to do but definitely get in touch with a professional to advise you. They can tell you if your idea has legs and give you advice on how to get it started.

I realise that I don't have the wherewithal to put this thing together myself; and Im not sure that Id want to in any case one extremely focused individual might well miss opportunities at the outer peripheries of his vision or knowledge, whereas a properly joined-up team reduces these kinds of risks. Of course, the team should have direction

One point Id maybe take issue with you on DG, is your comment It doesn't sound like you currently have much to bring to the table apart from an idea.

Every person currently employed in the IT sector (and every other sector, and every person who ever has had any form of employment, ever) is, or has been employed because of one persons idea.

Thats where it ALL starts. Without the idea, theres a lot of people sitting round the table wondering where the next (idea) wage packet is coming from.

But I digress. Thanks for what seems like good advice. Ill take a few days to bounce things around in my head and see if I cant find some clarity.

I think thats part of the problem; so many possible directions / potential pitfalls / unknowns In the past, when trying to solve a problem, Id focus on the perfect solution and work a way backwards to the problem. The problem in this instance (for me) is that while I can absolutely envisage the end result, I can almost guarantee that therell be lots of missed opportunities and, unfortunately, landmines stepped upon etc - just through my lack of knowledge.

In the meantime, any other advice gratefully accepted!

ON

Naughty Vend · Feb 8, 2010

No the first thing you should do is write the idea all down and post it to yourself in a recorded delivery envelope and / or if possible get a lawyer to notarise it, to prove it was your idea.

If you discuss anything with a third party get a non-disclosure agreement with confidentiality clauses, no usage clauses from development of the project and a clear outline of the project.

If it's a good idea you'll probably find the guts of the software you'll need out there for $300, without knowing the basis hard to guide but perhaps look at systems like Boonex etc.

cjd · Feb 8, 2010

old newbie said:
One point Id maybe take issue with you on DG, is your comment It doesn't sound like you currently have much to bring to the table apart from an idea.

You're very wrong about that. Everybody has ideas; ideas are worse than useless. You will never get a professional investor to give you money for an idea alone because they know they're worthless.

To be of any use at all, an idea must be capable of being implemented, developed and marketed - that takes a huge amount of knowledge, resource, determination and luck.

It's simply a truism that you must have the idea to start with but that alone gets you no points with anyone that understands the game - the hard part is what comes after it.

(btw, I'm not saying this just to be difficult, at one point in my life I was responsible for new product development in a large technology company. If anyone said - which they often did - that they had the next ebay, google, whatever; they were laughed out of the room because the probability of that being true is billions to one against and just shows naivety.)

Raw Rob · Feb 8, 2010

DWi said:
No the first thing you should do is write the idea all down and post it to yourself in a recorded delivery envelope...

As far as I am aware, that is a myth. From http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/services/alternatives

Any system where you retain the evidence yourself is very weak as it provides no independent evidence, and means that a court or tribunal would only have your word that you actually placed the work in the envelope at the time of posting.
If you use the postal service (sometimes called poor mans copyright), or any commercial system which requires you to store the work yourself, there is no evidence to say that the contents have not been swapped, or that you did not seal the envelope years later. It is so easy to cast doubt on such evidence, we believe it is next to worthless.

Rob

old newbie · Feb 8, 2010

DWi said:
No the first thing you should do is write the idea all down and post it to yourself in a recorded delivery envelope and / or if possible get a lawyer to notarise it, to prove it was your idea.

If you discuss anything with a third party get a non-disclosure agreement with confidentiality clauses, no usage clauses from development of the project and a clear outline of the project.

If it's a good idea you'll probably find the guts of the software you'll need out there for $300, without knowing the basis hard to guide but perhaps look at systems like Boonex etc.

Thanks DWi; sound advice. I'll take it and have the concept notarised.

Getting the concept on paper might also help with clarity as well.

ON

awebapart.com · Feb 8, 2010

old newbie said:
Suppose you came up with the next Google?
...
So, the light-bulb moment happens, and there it is, the next ebay / amazon / youtube Global, of course.
...
what would you suggest I do?

1. Take a look at the teams who created those kind of websites/companies and see what their backgrounds are...

google - 2 computer scientists, Larry Page and Sergey Brin
ebay - computer scientist Pierre Omidyar
amazon - computer scientist Jeff Bezos
facebook - computer scientist Mark Zuckerberg
twitter - computer scientist Jack Dorsey
youtube - Chad Hurley (BA in Fine Art), Steve Chen (computer scientist) and Jawed Karim (computer scientist)
yahoo - electrical engineer Jerry Yang and computer engineer David Filo

There is a common pattern emerging here (one that I commented on in a web designer thread a few months ago). How similar is your team's background to this common pattern?

2. Take a look at where those teams started up, and I am sorry to say it is not the UK. That is nothing to do with UK talent, it is more to do with the spirit of pioneering and the availability of investment in the US. So if you want to be the next global google, ebay, amazon, youtube perhaps you might have more chance moving out to the US and putting together a US team.

3. Bear in mind that you will never become the next google, ebay, amazon, youtube, as they stand now. Not even google, ebay, amazon or youtube when they were starting out could have done that. What we have today with each company/website is a result of years of improvement, today we have google version 100 (100 is an arbitrary number I made up to give you an idea), ebay version 100, amazon version 100 etc not google version 1, ebay version 1, amazon version 1. Any new startup needs to consider this carefully. If a version 1 is the only thing that is practical to have from day 1, then that might be OK if it is in a completely new niche, but not so OK if it is competing with an existing version 100 system.

old newbie · Feb 8, 2010

cjd said:
You're very wrong about that. Everybody has ideas; ideas are worse than useless. You will never get a professional investor to give you money for an idea alone because they know they're worthless.

To be of any use at all, an idea must be capable of being implemented, developed and marketed - that takes a huge amount of knowledge, resource, determination and luck.

It's simply a truism that you must have the idea to start with but that alone gets you no points with anyone that understands the game - the hard part is what comes after it.

(btw, I'm not saying this just to be difficult, at one point in my life I was responsible for new product development in a large technology company. If anyone said - which they often did - that they had the next ebay, google, whatever; they were laughed out of the room because the probability of that being true is billions to one against and just shows naivety.)

cjd I appreciate your input as sincere and I take your point re the next ebay, google, whatever and associated credibility

However, at this stage Im asking that the concept, as outlined in the OP, be considered as one that genuinely has this potential. How would you proceed?

ON

cjd · Feb 8, 2010

old newbie said:
However, at this stage Im asking that the concept, as outlined in the OP, be considered as one that genuinely has this potential. How would you proceed?

You need a partner(s) with real technical ability and you need to build a prototype. You also need to put some 'skin' into it. ie you must be prepared to take a big risk personally and prove that you have something more than just an idea.

Your idea will be quickly copied if it's any good and if there are low barriers to entry. Copyright is highly unlikely to protect it and patents in the software world also offer limited protection - so you need something more.

'Something more' is normally investment and skill - both managerially and technical.

PrismTechWales · Feb 8, 2010

Just a thought but if you can enter into a partnership with a tech company with suitable skills on some sort of revenue share basis you could be onto a better solution than paying someone to do the work.

You get their expertise and their commitment to the success of the project. We have recently tied up a couple of such deals with people looking for custom software (we provided the development skills, technical advise, hosting and online marketing strategy - they provide the business idea, contacts and industry knowledge)

All in all it has worked out well for us and we often suggest this approach on projects where we feel the idea has potential but the client doesn't have the cashflow to pay for development.

old newbie · Feb 8, 2010

awebapart.com said:
1. Take a look at the teams who created those kind of websites/companies and see what their backgrounds are...

google - 2 computer scientists, Larry Page and Sergey Brin
ebay - computer scientist Pierre Omidyar
amazon - computer scientist Jeff Bezos
facebook - computer scientist Mark Zuckerberg
twitter - computer scientist Jack Dorsey
youtube - Chad Hurley (BA in Fine Art), Steve Chen (computer scientist) and Jawed Karim (computer scientist)
yahoo - electrical engineer Jerry Yang and computer engineer David Filo

There is a common pattern emerging here (one that I commented on in a web designer thread a few months ago). How similar is your team's background to this common pattern?

2. Take a look at where those teams started up, and I am sorry to say it is not the UK. That is nothing to do with UK talent, it is more to do with the spirit of pioneering and the availability of investment in the US. So if you want to be the next global google, ebay, amazon, youtube perhaps you might have more chance moving out to the US and putting together a US team.

3. Bear in mind that you will never become the next google, ebay, amazon, youtube, as they stand now. Not even google, ebay, amazon or youtube when they were starting out could have done that. What we have today with each company/website is a result of years of improvement, today we have google version 100 (100 is an arbitrary number I made up to give you an idea), ebay version 100, amazon version 100 etc not google version 1, ebay version 1, amazon version 1. Any new startup needs to consider this carefully. If a version 1 is the only thing that is practical to have from day 1, then that might be OK if it is in a completely new niche, but not so OK if it is competing with an existing version 100 system.

Thanks for your comments awebapart; much appreciated.

1.I had considered that question myself, though hadnt found the answer was on my To-Do list. Team?? Eh, no. Not yet. More thinking required before deciding on a team.

2.Good point. Though I would have thought that remote teaming might be a possibility??

The concept is an ideal bolt-on to almost any of the biggies as simply the overhead required to run it alongside their existing structure would make minimal difference to their costs but give a massive return by way of a new and different revenue stream.
Put it another way: if it existed today, wed ALL be using it.

3.My point exactly about the cock-ups Id almost certainly make were I to try and go this alone. Using your analogy, and being a new niche, then version1 would suffice for launch. Though I know that as the launch button was being pressed, version 2 and probably 3 would require to be worked on to keep at the top of the (by then) newly created niche.
ON

PrismTechWales · Feb 8, 2010

Personally I would find a partner, as I mentioned in my previous post, making sure this partner is under a Non Disclosure Agreement, you can then get a proper techie's view of the idea and the associated development costs/ timescales.

If you need a sample NDA agreement you can use let me know

old newbie · Feb 8, 2010

PrismTechWales said:
Personally I would find a partner, as I mentioned in my previous post, making sure this partner is under a Non Disclosure Agreement, you can then get a proper techie's view of the idea and the associated development costs/ timescales.

If you need a sample NDA agreement you can use let me know

Thanks PTW, I wouldn't mind a look at your NDA...

ON

PrismTechWales · Feb 8, 2010

I have sent you a pm with a link to download it

sysops · Feb 8, 2010

DWi said:
No the first thing you should do is write the idea all down and post it to yourself in a recorded delivery envelope and / or if possible get a lawyer to notarise it, to prove it was your idea.

Complete waste of time. Sure, it provides some (not watertight) proof that you had such and such idea on such and such date. But if someone develops this idea independently, your letter is meaningless.

fisicx · Feb 8, 2010

old newbie said:
The concept is an ideal bolt-on to almost any of the biggies as simply the overhead required to run it alongside their existing structure would make minimal difference to their costs but give a massive return by way of a new and different revenue stream.

Oops. The fundamental flaw in your business plan has been revealed. Anything you develop can be replicated in half the time by the in house engineers and developers emplyed by 'the biggies'. Unless you can patent it (unlikely) within days of you going public there will be copies available.

Consider as well that none of 'the biggies' will even consider bolting third party software onto their platforms unless they get exclusivity.

old newbie · Feb 8, 2010

fisicx said:
Oops. The fundamental flaw in your business plan has been revealed. Anything you develop can be replicated in half the time by the in house engineers and developers emplyed by 'the biggies'. Unless you can patent it (unlikely) within days of you going public there will be copies available.

Consider as well that none of 'the biggies' will even consider bolting third party software onto their platforms unless they get exclusivity.

Sorry, I dont see a fundamental flaw here.

I do see every one of the biggies looking to increase profitability from within their existing infrastructure though. Just as every one of us would like to do with our own businesses.

Of course its open to being copied its the internet were talking about!

But, by applying similar principles to those that have kept Google, Amazon, YouTube, Ebay at the top of the tables over their respective lifetimes
and it always helps if youre the first to start with.

Look, I cant do this on my own, therefore I either walk away from it, safe in the knowledge that itll appear at some time in the future or try and make progress through any one of a number of possibilities.

As I see things, firstly The Concept requires some protection (Itll never get a patent at least not one that you couldnt spit peas through) and to that end Ill at least have it notarised by a lawyer and take further advice on any other useful protection available.

Then I have to make some decisions as to how I acquire the necessary expertise to evaluate and fully explore the potential (upsides and downsides) of it.

That would appear to leave me with 3 options:

1.Go out and buy the required knowledge. Build the site. Possibly (probably) have it swamped by copycats in no time.

2.Acquire a partner with this knowledge. Possibly (though less probably) still have it swamped by copycats in no time.

3.Offer it to one of the biggies for them to develop any one of which would take it on-board, if not for the additional revenue, certainly to stop competitors from benefitting through it.

ON

sysops · Feb 8, 2010

old newbie said:
As I see things, firstly The Concept requires some protection (Itll never get a patent at least not one that you couldnt spit peas through) and to that end Ill at least have it notarised by a lawyer and take further advice on any other useful protection available.

However 'savvy' you think you are, your understanding of the online world is lacking. You cannot protect 'concepts'. Google could not protect the 'concept' of a search engine, or a PPC platform. YouTube could not protect the 'concept' of a video sharing site. Ebay could not protect the 'concept' of an online auction.

PrismTechWales · Feb 8, 2010

everything in the tech/ internet world is copyable. Being first to market and with a polished product/ offering can make all the difference. You invest time and effort in the idea, polish it until its gleaming and then release it to the world in a flurry of activity. It is a model that works and there will always be imitators.

old newbie · Feb 8, 2010

sysops said:
However 'savvy' you think you are, your understanding of the online world is lacking. You cannot protect 'concepts'. Google could not protect the 'concept' of a search engine, or a PPC platform. YouTube could not protect the 'concept' of a video sharing site. Ebay could not protect the 'concept' of an online auction.

Absolutely agree that my understanding of the online world is lacking - 's why I'm here!

I should have been more explicit when I said 'protection' - The best I think I could realistically hope for is to be identified as the originator of the concept (for what thats worth).

So, are you saying I should save myself some grief, and just walk away?

ON

cjd · Feb 8, 2010

PrismTechWales said:
everything in the tech/ internet world is copyable. Being first to market and with a polished product/ offering can make all the difference. You invest time and effort in the idea, polish it until its gleaming and then release it to the world in a flurry of activity. It is a model that works and there will always be imitators.

It never, ever works that way. Every important internet product you can think of (including the internet itself) started very small and grew over time. None of them were fully formed ideas.

If all our OP has got is an idea that can be copied instantly ie not a product or a service that can afford a measure of protection by being unique or difficult to emulate, then he has nothing but a good idea.

sysops · Feb 8, 2010

old newbie said:
So, are you saying I should save myself some grief, and just walk away?

Not at all. If you really think you have something (but I don't see how someone without in-depth knowledge of the online marketplace could), then get some capital together and go for it.

PrismTechWales · Feb 8, 2010

cjd said:
It never, ever works that way. Every important internet product you can think of (including the internet itself) started very small and grew over time. None of them were fully formed ideas.

If all out OP has got is an idea that can be copied instantly ie not a product or a service that can afford a measure of protection by being unique or difficult to emulate, then he has nothing but a good idea.

So you think that every good idea that can be copied should be left in the conceptual stage? If that was the case Youtube would have never approached the VC guys and got the money needed to develop the idea and subsequently sell the business to Google.

The issue here isn't having a fully formed idea, it is having something sufficiently different and attention grabbing to garner interest. Everything gets copied from websites to ipods. There is always a knock off. You can copy anything is my point but there is merit to being first and best. Plus if the system/ solution is sufficiently complex then there is no copying instantly so you will always have some advantage.

zigojacko · Feb 8, 2010

I've got tons of amazing ideas, some of which I know would definitely be a huge success. I just haven't got the capital to invest and put the idea(s) into development. Heh

PrismTechWales · Feb 8, 2010

then get a business plan together, prove your concept and get some venture capitalist to invest. There is always someone with money willing to invest in someone with ideas and the ability to turn an idea into a coherent business approach

cjd · Feb 8, 2010

PrismTechWales said:
then get a business plan together, prove your concept and get some venture capitalist to invest. There is always someone with money willing to invest in someone with ideas and the ability to turn an idea into a coherent business approach

I'm afraid you're very wrong. No-one invests on a business plan except family friends and fools. However, a chap may dream.

PrismTechWales · Feb 8, 2010

cjd said:
I'm afraid you're very wrong. No-one invests on a business plan except family friends and fools. However, a chap may dream.

I never said anyone would invest in a business plan. You missed a key phrase in my reply which was "prove your concept"

sysops · Feb 8, 2010

PrismTechWales said:
I never said anyone would invest in a business plan. You missed a key phrase in my reply which was "prove your concept"

This is the problem though, isn't it. You need the capital to prove the concept, because proving that something can technically work is not the same as proving that it can make money.

If you are in a position to be able to prove the concept, you don't need additional capital.

PrismTechWales · Feb 8, 2010

sysops said:
This is the problem though, isn't it. You need the capital to prove the concept, because proving that something can technically work is not the same as proving that it can make money.

If you are in a position to be able to prove the concept, you don't need additional capital.

A proof of concept can be a demonstration that the system is technically possible. This is then backed up by market research and a business plan demonstrating that there will be return on investment. So whilst you need capital it is much more limited than the requirements to launch a product or service to a global audience. Besides what investor would take a pitch seriously if no money had been spent on investigating the idea and proving (on paper at least) that the concept has potential.

A serious investor will have an understanding of the target market and make their judgment on the balance of risk, capital requirement and return involved.

zigojacko · Feb 8, 2010

PrismTechWales said:
then get a business plan together, prove your concept and get some venture capitalist to invest. There is always someone with money willing to invest in someone with ideas and the ability to turn an idea into a coherent business approach

Do you know who I can approach, I would imagine there are various organisations that can help with this or at least advise? Thanks

PrismTechWales · Feb 8, 2010

zigojacko said:
Do you know who I can approach, I would imagine there are various organisations that can help with this or at least advise? Thanks

A quick google for terms such as "venture capital uk", "uk venture capital funds", "angel finance uk" should turn up plenty of results. Then its a case of researching each one to see which has a portfolio of investments that closely matches your idea and getting in touch.

Its worth researching the world of vc and a book well worth reading (in my opinion anyway) is http://www.amazon.co.uk/Raising-Venture-Capital-Rupert-Pearce/dp/0470027576

zigojacko · Feb 8, 2010

PrismTechWales said:
A quick google for terms such as "venture capital uk", "uk venture capital funds", "angel finance uk" should turn up plenty of results. Then its a case of researching each one to see which has a portfolio of investments that closely matches your idea and getting in touch.

Its worth researching the world of vc and a book well worth reading (in my opinion anyway) is http://www.amazon.co.uk/Raising-Venture-Capital-Rupert-Pearce/dp/0470027576

I shall do just that, completely new to me this area so appreciate the feedback, thanks

cjd · Feb 8, 2010

PrismTechWales said:
A serious investor will have an understanding of the target market and make their judgment on the balance of risk, capital requirement and return involved.

Have you ever received funding from a UK VC?

Naughty Vend · Feb 10, 2010

To the OP...

Send me your NDA (which you downloaded) and I'll sign it, then take a look at your idea and comment without obligation else you'll end up in circles on this forum. I have a history of making the implausable happen on a budget and have never written a business plan in my life.

I have resources in this field available to me at a creative level.

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Suppose you came up with the next Google ?

Suppose you came up with the next Google?