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rachh925

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Jan 14, 2010
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Hello,

I own 2 bulls that I collect & sell semen from.

I am doing my first Tax Return for this business and I'm not sure what to do - do I just put the bulls down as an expense or do I need to do something more complex?

I have recovered the cost of the bulls now but as of 5th April 2009 I hadn't, which meant the business will look like it has made a loss during that period, but I am now running at profit.

All TR's I've ever done have been very straightforward so now I'm stuck!!

Many thanks for your help!
 
You will have to include the value of the bulls at the end of the period as stock on hand.

There are some special rules for farming related accounts, so you'd be best advised to get advice from somebody who deals with farm accounts. I haven't for a long time!
 
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Accounting for animals/livestock is not my area of expertise but I’d have thought that the bulls would have to be recorded as fixed assets. How you’d depreciate them though I’ve no idea. Expected lifespan or possible how long they continue producing semen?

Despite the late hour I’d suggest finding an accountant who specialises in this area and this issue is fundamental to your records.

Who says accounting is dull...

Regards

Joy
 
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I seem to recall that you have the option of treating them as either capital or revenue (herd basis) but that's about it.

Agree - find an accountant who specialises in farm accounts (I don't, sorry!).
 
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rachh925 said:
Hello,

I own 2 bulls that I collect & sell semen from.

I am doing my first Tax Return for this business and I'm not sure what to do - do I just put the bulls down as an expense or do I need to do something more complex?

I have recovered the cost of the bulls now but as of 5th April 2009 I hadn't, which meant the business will look like it has made a loss during that period, but I am now running at profit.

All TR's I've ever done have been very straightforward so now I'm stuck!!

Many thanks for your help!
Click to expand...

Hello

As a farmers daughter and one who spent 13 years working in a agricultural practice I have a bit of experience in agricultural taxation and if you want to contact me direct I'd be very happy to help.

Alternatively if you want to have a read up on the herd basis here's a link to HM Revenue & Customs website regarding the herd basis -

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/MANUALS/bimmanual/BIM55501.htm
 
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Nicola HJ said:
Hello

As a farmers daughter and one who spent 13 years working in a agricultural practice I have a bit of experience in agricultural taxation and if you want to contact me direct I'd be very happy to help.

Alternatively if you want to have a read up on the herd basis here's a link to HM Revenue & Customs website regarding the herd basis -

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/MANUALS/bimmanual/BIM55501.htm
Click to expand...
Thanks Nicola
Nice to know I remembered it right :D
Still happy to leave farming to specialists tho! :cool:
 
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I see a schoolboy question here...

Not a subject matter expert (nearest I got was dating a girl who owned a horse, and whose mother looked like one), however agree on the face of it that they are assets. I can however see a rationale for expensing them fully in the first year and hence making a loss and paying no tax (but not sure whether farming rules would override this).
 
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yorkshirejames said:
I see a schoolboy question here...

Not a subject matter expert (nearest I got was dating a girl who owned a horse, and whose mother looked like one), however agree on the face of it that they are assets. I can however see a rationale for expensing them fully in the first year and hence making a loss and paying no tax (but not sure whether farming rules would override this).
Click to expand...

Have you read Nicola's link? It explains the Herd Basis, which is what you're talking about :)
 
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Hmmm yours truly has extensive experience of farmers' daughters, but knows nothing of bull.

I've seen a racehose capitalised - the Revenue didn't much like it - but it was a race-winner and had little energy left for stud duty. My fav farmer's daughter informs me a prize bull can be worth ten K and live longer than your cat, so on that basis alone it would surely be inequitable if one were not permitted to capitalise it. Maybe that raises the question of whether breeding cows should also be capitalised.

This question is a wind-up, isn't it?
 
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Oops, I must stay off the port, Tej. That and tax return season put me in a spin and writing garbage posts last night (19 returns to go, and four sets of accounts, and it's the 16th already! So that's 23 runs needed off 16 balls; or 9 an over! eek!).

Allow me to give you a few tips so that next time you are out in the sticks your stroll across the fields will not be spoilt:

First off, bulls always wait until you are halfway across a field - in no-mans' land - before seein' red. Don't be lulled into thinkin' it won't charge as it's just waitin' for you to hit the zone!

Second, cows with or without horns can easily trample a man to death. Normally they don't bother with you, but that changes if they have young around. If the field has calves in it, better watch out.

Lastly, if you are confronted by such a cow then walk, don't run. If it starts trotting towards you, you must confuse it by taking a step or two towards it. That'll stop it in its tracks long enough for you to walk clear.

I've never tried that last one with a bull, btw, although it worked a treat on a twenty stone adversary who tried leapin' out from behind a car to mug me. ;)
 
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Wild Goose said:
Oops, I must stay off the port, Tej. That and tax return season put me in a spin and writing garbage posts last night (19 returns to go, and four sets of accounts, and it's the 16th already! So that's 23 runs needed off 16 balls; or 9 an over! eek!).
Click to expand...

This assumes you work every day until the end of January, should you take Sundays off, it is then 23 off 13 balls or 11 an over!

I have 13 left to file, of which 3 are finished and awaiting signature, 2 I have been unable to contact, so have assumed dead, gone elsewhere or DIY...leaving 8, of which 6 are waiting on queries, 1 is a straightforward salary/dividend return and 1 last one is a transfer from an extremely obstructive accountant who has not sent the client's records over despite the original request being sent in November!
 
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Williams lester said:
This assumes you work every day until the end of January, should you take Sundays off, it is then 23 off 13 balls or 11 an over!
Click to expand...

Well I was plannin' on bowlin' a maiden-over this Sunday, so that leaves me needin' 23 off 15 balls. I need to hit a six!

Williams lester said:
I have 13 left to file, of which 3 are finished and awaiting signature, 2 I have been unable to contact, so have assumed dead, gone elsewhere or DIY...leaving 8, of which 6 are waiting on queries, 1 is a straightforward salary/dividend return and 1 last one is a transfer from an extremely obstructive accountant who has not sent the client's records over despite the original request being sent in November!
Click to expand...
Oops, that might be me :redface:
 
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I've got more to do than both of you put together!

At the start of this month I was still waiting for people to bring in the basic information for more than 10% of the returns that we do. Some of them won't appear but the rest, who have been chased several times, just seem to think that we can drop everything and do their little return.

Add to that three sets of company accounts due for filing by 31 Jan who also didn't turn up until after Christmas and one still to come.
 
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David Griffiths said:
I've got more to do than both of you put together! .
Click to expand...
Ha ha! That sounds like Monty Python's "Four Yorkshiremen" sketch David: "Well you've got it easy.... we have to prepare our returns in paper bag in middle of 'street!"

David Griffiths said:
At the start of this month I was still waiting for people to bring in the basic information for more than 10% of the returns that we do. Some of them won't appear but the rest, who have been chased several times, just seem to think that we can drop everything and do their little return.

Add to that three sets of company accounts due for filing by 31 Jan who also didn't turn up until after Christmas and one still to come.
Click to expand...
"..and you tell that to young folk today, an' they just won't believe you!" :)

I have an annual-staring down contest with two or three who just won't clear their old fees until the eleventh hour. Every year they bacs in the grand or two that they each owe just before the deadline, and every year I have to cobble together last minute returns for them, often on the last day or two. I think there's something in some people's make-up that won't let them face-up until they absolutely bloody well have to.
 
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Interesting thread this, starts as a cock and bull story about tax, and metamorphoses into a "Who has the latest client?" contest.

Is this the accountant's version of Godwin's Law?
 
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Anna Chandley said:
Wild goose

Would it be possible to remove the swastika from your last post. I'm sure it was intended to be humerous but I believe it's use in this forum is inappropriate and offensive.

Anna
__________________
Anna Chandley ACA CTA
Begbies Chettle Agar
Chartered Accountants
Click to expand...

REMOVAL
It is indeed possible Anna, and I see you have already gone route 1 on that by getting the mods to remove the swastika image within 8 minutes of your post.

INAPPROPRIATE
Its use in this particular thread's context was appropriate because it related to the earlier poster's "Godwin's Law". Plain and simple. It's a theory about Nazism - look it up for yourself, and don't be gettin' yourself all offended by a mere piece of imagery - it's allowed when it's in context. That's why we still run history channel programmes such as "The Nazis, A Warning From History" with all its indulgent imagery, rather than suppress it all as for instance we did to our detriment in recent history by "gagging" and "muting" Sinn Fein policitians.

OFFENSIVE
Sorry if my post inadvertently offended your delicate sensibilities - I would maintain it's only offensive if you want to see it that way.

HUMEROUS
It was indeed intended to be humourous. Evidently, you do not have a funny-bone.
 
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Wild Goose said:
REMOVAL
It is indeed possible Anna, and I see you have already gone route 1 on that by getting the mods to remove the swastika image within 8 minutes of your post.

INAPPROPRIATE
Its use in this particular thread's context was appropriate because it related to the earlier poster's "Godwin's Law". Plain and simple. It's a theory about Nazism - look it up for yourself, and don't be gettin' yourself all offended by a mere piece of imagery - it's allowed when it's in context. That's why we still run history channel programmes such as "The Nazis, A Warning From History" with all its indulgent imagery, rather than suppress it all as for instance we did to our detriment in recent history by "gagging" and "muting" Sinn Fein policitians.

OFFENSIVE
Sorry if my post inadvertently offended your delicate sensibilities - I would maintain it's only offensive if you want to see it that way.

HUMEROUS
It was indeed intended to be humourous. Evidently, you do not have a funny-bone.
Click to expand...


The Goose 1 - Bestbuy Agar Kettles 0

p.s. I'm totally with WG on this, but then we are probably of the same era ;)
 
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DickM said:
The Goose 1 - Bestbuy Agar Kettles 0

p.s. I'm totally with WG on this, but then we are probably of the same era
Click to expand...

Ha! That'd be the era when accountants punctuated their questions with question marks, and knew to avoid an erroneous apostrophe on the possessive pronoun its by not confusing it with the contraction it's.

That'd be the pre-calculator era when every housewife could mentally add, multiply, and subtract in units of a dozen, twenty, twenty-one, fourteen, and sixteen, lest they get short-changed by barrow-boys and the like.

That'd be the good old days before scary political correctness had taken its hold, and when the offended minority was called Mary Whitehouse.

Now that I think of it, I'd better check whether swastika is a proper noun that should have a capital S - after all, I wouldn't want to offend any over-sensitive neo-Nazis who happen in on this thread.;)
 
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You are close, but I can't remember whether it was the facit machine (both electronic and hand crank), or the calculator I used first in the mid-sixties @ monolithic Ford Motor Company's Time Keeping Office, Essex (payroll now outsourced).
Anyway, must go as the Missus has donned her Gestapo uniform (as modelled in 'Allo, 'Allo) - dated BBC prog ;)
We have zee Geeerman helmut under zee bed, in case I can't make the Auntie Sweet (or is it en suite?) during the night :)
 
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Tom Egerton said:
Can't really comment on the tax question, but would the receptacle used by the OP be like an Irish submarine - i.e. full of thick seamen?
Click to expand...

Tom Egerton,

Would it be possible to remove the shamrock from your last post? I'm sure it was intended to be humourous, but I believe its use in this forum is inappropriate and offensive.

Wild Goose
__________________
Bestbuy Agar Kettles,
Chartered Aeroplanes
 
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Wild Goose said:
Fill her with semen. And don't mention the war.:rolleyes:
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You have and you didn't get away with it. Sorry I missed the swastika spat - it was actually used by both the The Euphrates Defences and the 6th (Indian) Cavalry Brigade as signs during the Great War. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good fight.
 
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I wasn't knocking it or putting it down. I was just saying it as a fact and it's true more for England than here. I'm not saying that we're better or greater, or comparing us with Adolf Hitler as a person or the swastika as a thing or whatever it is. I just said what I said and it was wrong. Or it was taken wrong. And now it's all this!
 
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You shouldn't have to worry about the PC brigade when posting. As we've now got an alleged anti-semitic post and a racist post (mine), perhaps someone could construct a homophobic post and we'll have a full set.
 
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Tom Egerton said:
You shouldn't have to worry about the PC brigade when posting. As we've now got an alleged anti-semitic post and a racist post (mine), perhaps someone could construct a homophobic post and we'll have a full set.
Click to expand...

Yons awful fancy words you are using. Are you good with colours too?
 
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Tom Egerton said:
As we've now got an alleged anti-semitic post and a racist post (mine)....
Click to expand...

Ahha that's the point - my post simply isn't anti-semetic. You might, if for instance you were difficult or just happened to be in a hormonal rage, argue that it's (unintentially, of couse) pro-German, but that's an entirely different thing.

Just as if I happen to disagree with using tanks and artillery to blow the limbs off defenceless Palestinian women and children - that doesn't make me anti-semetic.
 
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Let's get the ex-England & Arsenal Goalkeeper on here to give his 2 penny worth ........ he spread his name around the ladies, so old press reports have it :p
Alright on a playing field with a ball in his hands, but may not be too clever with a bull charging towards him - not realising he'd made a bad choice by wearing a red goalie jersey ............. :eek: !!
 
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