Commision Share SEO

GreatSEO · Nov 2, 2009

Looking to build on my portfolio (please PM if your interested)

Looking to know what people think really is commision share better than being paid for the service?

What do the other SEO's on here do fee or commision?

Dave

mattsaw · Nov 2, 2009

The only time I've been involved in a commission share agreement (via the company I was working for) it ended with the client being upset that he was paying far more than he thought he should be.

People are very happy to take on an SEO at the start on a commission, but as soon as they see their sales increase and realise they're paying far more than they would have been on a flat rate they are suddenly not so keen anymore.

My only advice is to tie things into a long watertight contract.

Mystro · Nov 3, 2009

Many people on here have talked about this and i have not yet seen 1 example of the relationship lasting, especially with Seo due to the above reason.

I have just been offered the same kind of deal to have my site mailed to a few hundred thousand E-mail addresses for a % of the profits, but marketing and Seo are too different services, as soon as the marketing finishes so will the sales, as for Seo once that finishes it would not be too hard to keep the work topped up so the poor seo could get a bum deal..

Ali-v-8 · Nov 3, 2009

Im with matt on this one. Once you exceed the expectations the tears start to roll.
An SEO gives a price for his time. If he see's potential and you think your exploiting him you will lose out.
An seo's confidence will become evident and he wont be bothered about how much your not paying him. He will be happy with what you will have to pay.
But like Matt said "thats when the problems start"

GreatSEO · Nov 3, 2009

Thanks guys any more opinions?

Dave

directmarketingadvice · Nov 3, 2009

mattsaw said:
The only time I've been involved in a commission share agreement (via the company I was working for) it ended with the client being upset that he was paying far more than he thought he should be.

People are very happy to take on an SEO at the start on a commission, but as soon as they see their sales increase and realise they're paying far more than they would have been on a flat rate they are suddenly not so keen anymore.

My only advice is to tie things into a long watertight contract.

Jay Abraham did (maybe still does) lots of "if I make you a dollar, a dollar you would never have otherwise made, can I keep a quarter?" deals.

I remember him saying he got screwed on almost all of them. They either shortchanged him by lying about sales or they just stopped paying.

However, the reason he kept doing those deals was that he still made far more money than if he worked for a fee.

I'd have thought SEO was something where you could protect yourself.

However, you'd have to take over the hosting of the site before doing the SEO work. That way, if the client tries to cheat you, you just pull the site down.

Steve

Nov 3, 2009

SteveGibson said:
Jay Abraham did (maybe still does) lots of "if I make you a dollar, a dollar you would never have otherwise made, can I keep a quarter?" deals.

I remember him saying he got screwed on almost all of them. They either shortchanged him by lying about sales or they just stopped paying.

However, the reason he kept doing those deals was that he still made far more money than if he worked for a fee.

I'd have thought SEO was something where you could protect yourself.

However, you'd have to take over the hosting of the site before doing the SEO work. That way, if the client tries to cheat you, you just pull the site down.

Steve

Sounds like Jay was not a very good judge of character no matter what other great skills he had.

Been doing profit share for many years,never had a problem and I don't think its because I could rip the business's to shreds if someone tried to turn me over.

I suspect its far more to do with making sure any partners understood what the deal was ,and picking grown ups.

Had many projects offered where the person was not right,which I turn down even if the site had viability.

Earl

I, Brian · Nov 3, 2009

SteveGibson said:
However, the reason he kept doing those deals was that he still made far more money than if he worked for a fee.

Alternatively, maybe he was just used to working with "the devil you know"?

Commission share immediately means payment problems - anyone not serious about paying for a service from the start is a problem client.

Anything worth investing in is worth paying for.

Mystro · Nov 3, 2009

I said:
Alternatively, maybe he was just used to working with "the devil you know"?

Commission share immediately means payment problems - anyone not serious about paying for a service from the start is a problem client.

Anything worth investing in is worth paying for.

I would disagree with that Brian,

If when i started some one offered me a % for the work they were going to do i would have snapped their hand off, it would have left me with a better than average cash flow to help promote my business in other ways.

I do agree that it would be hard to police and trust would have to come into play for this kind of relationship to work, as i said in a earlier post, if you have your site Seo'd for a % of the profit's that will be really difficult as the process is not a quick one, however if you get some one to market your site, the results can be overnight as to speak so that kind of relationship will work well and can stop as quick as it started.

Paul

I, Brian · Nov 4, 2009

Mystro said:
If when i started some one offered me a % for the work they were going to do i would have snapped their hand off, it would have left me with a better than average cash flow to help promote my business in other ways.

Many of us have tried it, usually early on because it allowed us to demonstrate a larger portfolio, and overwhelmingly led to us getting burned.

Sometimes it does work - but the underlying point is that it shows someone does not wish to pay money for a service in the first place, and once someone is in that mindset, it can be very difficult for them to break out of it.

2c.

SEO Positive · Nov 4, 2009

I always get asked if I would like to commission share with companies, buti always, always turn them down, no matter how good the offer is.

The reason I turn them down is, none of them are good enough for me to give my business up for. Why would I need to give my business up? Well, if I was to do a commission share with a company, and it went really well, then any normal person would then be tempted to spend more time and resources optimising that website, therefore you are no longer running an ethical business (in my eyes)

So, to keep everything on an even playing field, and to ensure all my clients are a priority to me, I will always say no to a commission share.

Nov 4, 2009

SEO Positive said:
I always get asked if I would like to commission share with companies, buti always, always turn them down, no matter how good the offer is.

The reason I turn them down is, none of them are good enough for me to give my business up for. Why would I need to give my business up? Well, if I was to do a commission share with a company, and it went really well, then any normal person would then be tempted to spend more time and resources optimising that website, therefore you are no longer running an ethical business (in my eyes)

So, to keep everything on an even playing field, and to ensure all my clients are a priority to me, I will always say no to a commission share.

As someone who runs several high profile sites .I don't find it a problem as the work is ,as and when needed on each site.Also once a site has obtained a high ranking that particular site becomes low maintenance leaving plenty of time to work on the sites that need a bit of a push.

I also do not take on to many projects for the time I have.

Earl

estwig · Nov 4, 2009

I said:
Sometimes it does work - but the underlying point is that it shows someone does not wish to pay money for a service in the first place, and once someone is in that mindset, it can be very difficult for them to break out of it.

No it is not about always about someone not wishing to pay, it is about them not understanding what they are gonna get for their money, for a fixed fee.

I understand the problem, if you are gonna offer SEO as a % of profit/turnover/whatever, then you are gonna get people pulling your arm off for it. The majority will be, the don't wanna pay type.

People offering SEO services are very difficult to quantify, it seems that way to me anyway, you can't promise anything much, but you require a fee for doing it. The companies that attempt to overcome this by guaranteeing No1 on Google, etc, are spammers.

So where does that leave, Joe Bloggs??? Who has a good product, with a good mark-up and who can deliver the goods???

This isn't aimed at you Brian, just my thoughts.

Nov 4, 2009

I said:
Sometimes it does work - but the underlying point is that it shows someone does not wish to pay money for a service in the first place, and once someone is in that mindset, it can be very difficult for them to break out of it.

2c.

I never approach SEO/SEM as a service.

I think of it as a business building project.

If someone approaches me with a site that has 100 visitors a day and virtually no sales.I will attemp to build that online business into a successful profitable site.

I never oversell myself in fact the best that someone can expect from me is that I think it may have potential and I will give it a go.

There are of course somethings that one can recognise as being a potential goldmine.

As I have said before explaining what the deal is clearly,paying particular attention to the bit where you get paid by results for ever and ever and also the judgement of character being a crucial factor.

Earl

GreatSEO · Nov 5, 2009

Surely if it is a profit share there would be no risk for you Keith

If the site picks up and it is discussed at length at the front end and the deal is done based on good understanding there should be no problem?

Look forward to your views

Dave

estwig · Nov 5, 2009

UKSMF said:
Surely if it is a profit share there would be no risk for you Keith

If the site picks up and it is discussed at length at the front end and the deal is done based on good understanding there should be no problem?

Look forward to your views

Dave

Yes your right, but the good seo's understandably, don't seem too keen on this as a business arrangement. In general in business, it is difficult, almost impossible to find anyone to share the risks with you, far too many unknown factors. Especially for a small business like me, for instance if I'm ill, or someone doesn't pay me, profits are effected, is that the seo's fault, of course not, does it mean he won't get paid, yes it does.

So then we left with the proposition, what Mr seo God like person, are you gonna achieve for me, to jusitfy your fee??

How is all this quantified?? What promises can a good seo make??

Nov 5, 2009

estwig said:
Yes your right, but the good seo's understandably, don't seem too keen on this as a business arrangement. In general in business, it is difficult, almost impossible to find anyone to share the risks with you, far too many unknown factors. Especially for a small business like me, for instance if I'm ill, or someone doesn't pay me, profits are effected, is that the seo's fault, of course not, does it mean he won't get paid, yes it does.

So then we left with the proposition, what Mr seo God like person, are you gonna achieve for me, to jusitfy your fee??

How is all this quantified?? What promises can a good seo make??

I promise to show you how to make a good cup of tea.:|

Earl

GreatSEO · Nov 5, 2009

If that is all set out at the beginning properly then surely you would not be coming across these probles as you would have ironed out the creases before you start.

It must work our resident sirearl has been doing it a while I believe. Any comments?

Dave

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