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Copywriters are magicians

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Seems copywriters think the general public are stupid and gullible and think a few well chosen words will make the population buy a product over another site .

They also seem to have the ability to pull mass web traffic out of a hat.

Beyond a good description and equally good images.

Do you really think there eloquent words makes you buy a product.

I believe that price is what gets the sale in nearly all cases.

Earl
 
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sirearl said:
....Do you really think there eloquent words makes you buy a product.

I believe that price is what gets the sale in nearly all cases...
Click to expand...

For me it's two things:

1. Price

2. A CREDIBLE website

By Credible I mean: Does It have FULL contact details? If it says it's a LTD company does it display the registration details? Does it have full T & C s with a returns policy? Does it use a proper payment gateway? Does it use SSL? etc. etc.

There are many other markers that I probably subtly use to get a 'feel' for the site.

One important factor is my past history with the site. I will often purchase from sites I have successfully used before without further investigating cheaper alternatives.

To be honest the actually 'sales copy' is unimportant to me. All I want is a concise and accurate description (which may just simply be the make and model)

Regards

Dotty
 
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DotNetWebs said:
For me it's two things:

1. Price

2. A CREDIBLE website

By Credible I mean: Does It have FULL contact details? If it says it's a LTD company does it display the registration details? Does it have full T & C s with a returns policy? Does it use a proper payment gateway? Does it use SSL? etc. etc.

There are many other markers that I probably subtly use to get a 'feel' for the site.

One important factor is my past history with the site. I will often purchase from sites I have successfully used before without further investigating cheaper alternatives.

To be honest the actually 'sales copy' is unimportant to me. All I want is a concise and accurate description (which may just simply be the make and model)

Regards

Dotty
Click to expand...

Yeah but bad grammar and spelling would turn me off a site.
 
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Sorry I disagree, research shows that different people use different senses to communicate - there are some people that are visual - when talking to them they say things like "I see what you're saying", then there are those that are natural listeners "I hear what you are saying", those that are touch sensitive "I can feel it in my bones" and so on. Those are very brief and light weight examples, there are plenty more.

I've spent a long time studying different buying habits over the years. There are those that come on and flick very quickly through the site and obvisously buy off pictures - this becomes apparent when when they haven't read the delivery or returns policy. There are others that study each page in depth, over and over again and can quite literally quote your site back to you word perfect.

There are others that do just buy on price - they will buy a kids bracelet for themselves because it is cheaper than the adults bracelets.

I'm visual - I always look at the pictures and I always click on zooms and I would never buy from a website that doesn't visually appeal - especially if it doesn't look professional - I click away before I get past the first page. I would hazard a guess that you wouldn't buy that way, that the window dressings as such wouldn't really register with you as you would just focus on the price? Horses for courses, it just illustrates that different people have different buying habits.

So with our site we have tried to appeal to as many types of purchasers as we can - by being keenly priced, we've invested in design and pictures and we had the descriptions professionally written (although admittedly we haven't for the newer products as I need to find someone to do them).

I really believe that a site should have an equal balance between good pricing, good graphics and good content. I am a terrible writer (why say something in 10 words when you can use 10,000??) and so for me a professional copywriter may well be a magician!
 
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Don't knock great presentation - when it works really well, it does indeed work really well.

Images are always helpful for illustrative purposes or simply to help with readability - but, seriously, never knock the text - taking the right voice in the right context, and focusing on the right information - sells wonderfully.

I also know that much as on-page SEO is dismissed as easy, there are some real nuances in there many overlook.

Frankly, it's silly to denigrate any individual element of marketing - in truth, many different aspects should be given due consideration, careful attention, and brought together in a way greater than the sum of its parts.

Good. Copy. Works.

And integrated marketing works better than over-focus on any specific marketing area.

2c.
 
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I said:
Don't knock great presentation - when it works really well, it does indeed work really well.

Images are always helpful for illustrative purposes or simply to help with readability - but, seriously, never knock the text - taking the right voice in the right context, and focusing on the right information - sells wonderfully.

I also know that much as on-page SEO is dismissed as easy, there are some real nuances in there many overlook.

Frankly, it's silly to denigrate any individual element of marketing - in truth, many different aspects should be given due consideration, careful attention, and brought together in a way greater than the sum of its parts.

Good. Copy. Works.

And integrated marketing works better than over-focus on any specific marketing area.

2c.
Click to expand...

Oh an interesting SEO post, Brian as ever you are a gem amoungst the bottom dwellers.

Do so agree good copy makes a site zing and as for the image bit don't tell the SEO'ers stuff like that (good images well SEO'd bring in shed loads of traffic - yah scary amounts guys scarey amounts, you can double traffic to your clients sites:eek:), they will finally cotton on and start to make a living and that begins to make it hard for us non SOE'ers.
 
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Frankly, it's silly to denigrate any individual element of marketing - in truth, many different aspects should be given due consideration, careful attention, and brought together in a way greater than the sum of its parts.
Click to expand...

I agree, one aspect on it's own will work, but get all the parts working well and you will do much better than most, commonsense when you think about it.
 
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I said:
I also know that much as on-page SEO is dismissed as easy, there are some real nuances in there many overlook.

Frankly, it's silly to denigrate any individual element of marketing -

2c.
Click to expand...

Don't think I was denigrating copy writing ,well maybe a bit of gentle micky taking.

More interested in what makes people buy.

always worked on:

images

Description.

Price

but who knows.?

Earl
 
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If you know your product, then you should write your own ok sales copy.
Cant do that with SEO though.
Seriously a good picture and a few good sentences, the rest of the description is not going to increase your sales (talking about e commerce site here).
And price! Come on what else!?
How could i ask some1 who doesnt know anything about my products to write my sales copy?????????? I just do not get it.
 
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sirearl said:
Seems copywriters think the general public are stupid and gullible and think a few well chosen words will make the population buy a product over another site .
Click to expand...

Well that's a ridiculous thing to say. If you genuinely believe that I think the general public are stupid and gullible then you couldn't be more wrong.

They also seem to have the ability to pull mass web traffic out of a hat.

Beyond a good description and equally good images.

Do you really think there eloquent words makes you buy a product.

I believe that price is what gets the sale in nearly all cases.

Earl
Click to expand...
The simple fact is, it DOES make a huge difference. There's a few cynical people out there who try to look past copy for some odd reason, and believe that copywriting is only for those cheesy direct marketing websites with a load of sales spiel which does draw gullible people in. For the most part though, copy is for professional UK businesses who can't manage to showcase their products/services in the best way on their own.

Copy is on your side. It's there to help you. Do you want to know all of the features, benefits and reasons to buy a product? They are there for you to read. It doesn't involve coaxing someone into buying what they don't want. It doesn't involve some sort of crazy hypnotic spell, or taking advantage of gullible people.

Hundreds of tests and results prove that copy makes a massive difference. As I said in the other thread, I had a recent client and his website converted at 4.7%. I wrote copy for him, he put it in and the conversion rate jumped to 9.78%, and 7.55% overnight. His previous copy was perfect English and explained what the product was, so he did achieve a decent conversion rate already. I've had plenty more similar results and so have many other copywriters I presume.

The new copy grabbed their attention much better, and explained the benefits better. It created the urge within them to buy it, and it provided a solution to a large problem they have.

I sell to Business owners as well. They're intelligent people who understand the importance of the right communication towards their visitors and prospects. People can assume what they like, but my clients are now the ones who are making more money than they ever have before, and that's all I care about.

Also, there's a massive difference between 'ok' copy, and copy from a professional. It's MANY very subtle differences which have personally taken me many years to learn and understand. There's a reason why it takes so long and why copywriting is its own trade.
 
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The problem is that there is two conversation earlier that stemmed in to this.
now we have an issue of value. Copy Vs SEO

Copy writers are a valuable asset to seo.
But to me thats ALL you are. An asset or a tool to be used to generate better position and help (and i only mean help) conversions.
It can help better adscores for PPC (not sure how correct i am on that one (steve))
It can help explain.
It can instruct.

But it alone cannot convince someone to spend £100 on something that is £30 cheaper and at the top of google. (not even a blind duck)
 
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sirearl said:
Seems copywriters think the general public are stupid and gullible and think a few well chosen words will make the population buy a product over another site .
Click to expand...

Translation: you think people are "stupid and gullible" if they are swayed by copy.

They also seem to have the ability to pull mass web traffic out of a hat.
Click to expand...

If you can turn visitors into money better than your competitors, you can buy all the traffic you want.

I believe that price is what gets the sale in nearly all cases.
Click to expand...

Utter nonsense.

If that were the case, everyone would drive the cheapest car on the market.

Steve
 
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seedstotal said:
How could i ask some1 who doesnt know anything about my products to write my sales copy?????????? I just do not get it.
Click to expand...

a relevant point here:| I once asked a pro copywriter to give me a taster of what they could do with some text of my site and the results were laughable because they didnt "get" the type of business I was in nor the expectations or perceptions that potential clients had of it.
 
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Ali-v-8 said:
The problem is that there is two conversation earlier that stemmed in to this.
now we have an issue of value. Copy Vs SEO

Copy writers are a valuable asset to seo.
But to me thats ALL you are. An asset or a tool to be used to generate better position and help (and i only mean help) conversions.
It can help better adscores for PPC (not sure how correct i am on that one (steve))
It can help explain.
It can instruct.

But it alone cannot convince someone to spend £100 on something that is £30 cheaper and at the top of google. (not even a blind duck)
Click to expand...

Why are you talking about SEO again? It has nothing to do with copywriting and we aren't comparing copywriting to SEO at all.

Either way you're very wrong. Copywriters are a valuable asset to every business because copy can convert prospects and visitors into sales. For the 100th time Ali, SEO isn't the only source of traffic on the Internet. There's dozens of different marketing methods online and offline which require properly written copy.

For example, copy on a leaflet can EASILY mean the difference between hundreds of sales and absolutely none. Just because you have text there (even if it makes sense) it doesn't automatically mean that it should work to some degree.
 
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SteveGibson said:
. If that were the case, everyone would drive the cheapest car on the market.

Steve
Click to expand...

Thats really stupid .

people drive the model they want ,but pay the lowest price they can for that model.

Projection Re-translation you think people are stupid and gulible.

As you have no idea what I think.

Earl
 
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I love it when I stumble upon a website where real attention has been paid to the details. The spelling, grammar and punctuation are correct and the words have been crafted to convey meaning.

I grabbed a paragraph off one of the websites that the OP links to in his signature. Editcentral.com suggests that it needs 26 years of education to understand. I wonder how many more people would buy if they understood what it meant.

Great, persuasive copy is worth millions.
 
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QVA - Emma said:
I'll keep this short as I'm too tired!:eek:

Good copy works on those who bother to read it.

A great price works on those looking for it.

A combination of the two and Roberts your Mother's brother.:D

Emma
Click to expand...

To true but 98% are looking for a good price.

and me mothers brother is Alfonso.

Earl
 
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If you read what i said i did say there were advantages for ppc. copy can increase help increase adscore.
Also i stated that copy is a good tool for seo
I will agree that copy can help sway a man into using your service.

And i must say over the last few post i can see the point being made.

But to me your still a tool. :D
And i mean no offence by that comment.


Scott-CopyandDesign said:
Why are you talking about SEO again? It has nothing to do with copywriting and we aren't comparing copywriting to SEO at all.

Either way you're very wrong. Copywriters are a valuable asset to every business because copy can convert prospects and visitors into sales. For the 100th time Ali, SEO isn't the only source of traffic on the Internet. There's dozens of different marketing methods online and offline which require properly written copy.

For example, copy on a leaflet can EASILY mean the difference between hundreds of sales and absolutely none. Just because you have text there (even if it makes sense) it doesn't automatically mean that it should work to some degree.
Click to expand...
 
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sirearl said:
As you have no idea what I think.

Earl
Click to expand...

Seems copywriters think the general public are stupid and gullible
Click to expand...

Bit hypocritical don't you think :rolleyes:.

QVA - Emma said:
I'll keep this short as I'm too tired!:eek:

Good copy works on those who bother to read it.

A great price works on those looking for it.

A combination of the two and Roberts your Mother's brother.:D

Emma
Click to expand...

This is actually true. I wrote a blog about a similar subject a while ago.

sirearl said:
To true but 98% are looking for a good price.

and me mothers brother is Alfonso.

Earl
Click to expand...

It's difficult to take you or your debate seriously when you pick numbers out of thin air. Unless you have really studied sales psychology and buying behaviour, then you don't have a clue what makes people really buy. What you think (and even what your own customers think) is not representative of what millions of others think.

What is your sites sales conversion rate at the moment Earl? Even though you get probably thousands of visitors, you could be missing out on getting even double the number of sales from them because you're so stubborn about this subject :rolleyes:. Believe what you want though; it's your income and business, not mine.
 
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sirearl said:
Oh come on steve the whole of advertising works on the premise.:D
Click to expand...

More projection. (and confiriming my suggestion that you were projecting in your original post)

Do you have any evidence to back this up?

Are you saying that everyone here who has advertised their business has set out to take advantage of the "stupid and gullible"?

It couldn't possibly be that they feel their product or service offers great value and they want to tell people why?

Steve
 
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Scott-CopyandDesign said:
Bit hypocritical don't you think :rolleyes:.
Click to expand...

Not at all no one knows whats in my mind except myself.

Where as the advertising industry publishes millions of articles about copy writing and advertising in general.

some of which I am sure you have probably studied.?;)

Earl
 
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I work for a site (not mine unfortunately, just do the despatch) average turnover 12k a day.
Products are cheap cheap cheap and the site is on the first page for lots of keywords. Those 2 are the key element! Quality hmmm... seen much better, defenetly value for money. Copywrite hmmm wasnt a big deal.
It is just my experience.
You can argue here who is most superior, SEOs, PPC managers, Copywriters
There is a market for all of you, you all know much more about all of these things than I will ever. Just trying to help the argument with my experience here. But Im sure nobody cares!?:redface:
 
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You know what ... I am a copywriter ... BUT ... I am also a direct marketer.

So ... if I found by testing that I could get a greater conversion and ROI by simply putting a low price next to a picture of my product/service rather than writing motivating copy ...

Guess what ... I'd stick a low price next to a picture.

Question Earl ... have you ever properly tested your price theory against copy on your own sites? Honestly?

Colin Parker
 
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sirearl said:
Where as the advertising industry publishes millions of articles about copy writing and advertising in general.

some of which I am sure you have probably studied.?;)
Click to expand...

Some. Obviously, I must have missed the ones that said marketing is about taking advantage of the "stupid" and the "gullible".

I was probably too busy reading this advice instead:

"The consumer isn't a moron; she is your wife. You insult her intelligence if you assume that a mere slogan and a few vapid adjectives will persuade her to buy anything. She wants all the information you can give her."

and

"Never Write an Advertisement Which You Wouldn't Want Your Own Family To Read. You wouldn't tell lies to your own wife. Don't tell them to mine. Do as you would be done by."

Not at all no one knows whats in my mind except myself.
Click to expand...

Really. So the following wasn't in your mind:

Seems copywriters think the general public are stupid and gullible and think a few well chosen words will make the population buy a product over another site .
Click to expand...

Interesting that you won't even stand behind the things you write. Having read them, I can understand why... but it's interesting, nevertheless. :D

Steve
 
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ONEPORTFOLIO said:
Question Earl ... have you ever properly tested your price theory against copy on your own sites? Honestly?

Colin Parker
Click to expand...

Colin I have been involved in price wars on the internet for many years and can assure you that for commonly procured products price is the major factor shown by our customer feedback to be the major factor why they chose us,followed by customer service and speed of delivery.

This is for a very varied range of different popular products ranging in price from a few pounds to many thousands.

In the areas where we have a more niche market ,then price is not always a factor.

Earl
 
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sirearl said:
Not at all no one knows whats in my mind except myself.

Where as the advertising industry publishes millions of articles about copy writing and advertising in general.

some of which I am sure you have probably studied.?;)

Earl
Click to expand...

I've avoided a few US-based and 'direct marketing' type copywriters because I think a lot of is it is a load of trollop to be honest. It focuses on a specific type of copy and a specific type of consumer, and when I write copy for UK businesses, this is not what they're selling to.

There's a very good side and a very bad side to copywriting - it's the same with all industries. There's good design, bad design; good web dev, bad web dev; good accounting, bad accounting; good quad bikes, bad quad bikes - and so on.

I'm not sure why copywriting tends so suffer so much from the brush covered in tar.

seedstotal said:
I work for a site (not mine unfortunately, just do the despatch) average turnover 12k a day.
Products are cheap cheap cheap and the site is on the first page for lots of keywords. Those 2 are the key element! Quality hmmm... seen much better, defenetly value for money. Copywrite hmmm wasnt a big deal.
It is just my experience.
You can argue here who is most superior, SEOs, PPC managers, Copywriters
There is a market for all of you, you all know much more about all of these things than I will ever. Just trying to help the argument with my experience here. But Im sure nobody cares!?:redface:
Click to expand...

It entirely depends on the market. I've turned people away before because I didn't think that any copy could do them any favours; no matter how good it is.

Many situations are based almost entirely on price, and it is a key factor in the 'marketing mix'. Do you think Ladbrokes are after quality when they produce their tiny red pens? They want the cheapest they can get. Many businesses will simply want the cheapest flyers available, whilst some will want quality above all else.

However, you don't need one or the other. If you have a very low price, but you also portray quality and benefits within the product by using copy, then it puts your product/service in a MUCH better position for selling. Why choose cheap when they can have cheap and good quality? Cheap can put across the feeling of low quality, which is why copy is very important to counter-act that and display quality with plenty of features and benefits.

Reminds me of a story I read in a copywriting book (can't remember who's it was; steve will probably know). A market stall in a foreign country was selling Jewellery to tourists at a very low price, but barely making any sales. The man behind the book then advised them to double their price I think it was (or maybe even triple it). So they did this, and the next day they had sold out.
 
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SteveGibson said:
Some. Obviously, I must have missed the ones that said marketing is about taking advantage of the "stupid" and the "gullible".

I was probably too busy reading this advice instead:

"The consumer isn't a moron; she is your wife. You insult her intelligence if you assume that a mere slogan and a few vapid adjectives will persuade her to buy anything. She wants all the information you can give her."

and

"Never Write an Advertisement Which You Wouldn't Want Your Own Family To Read. You wouldn't tell lies to your own wife. Don't tell them to mine. Do as you would be done by."



Really. So the following wasn't in your mind:



Interesting that you won't even stand behind the things you write. Having read them, I can understand why... but it's interesting, nevertheless. :D

Steve
Click to expand...

Steve as advertising revolves around the psychological manipulation of the population.( I.E trying to make people feel inadequate unless they have a certain product e.t.c )

what conclusion would you draw from that.?

Earl
 
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sirearl said:
Steve as advertising revolves around the psychological manipulation of the population.( I.E trying to make people feel inadequate unless they have a certain product e.t.c )

what conclusion would you draw from that.?l
Click to expand...

That you live in fantasy world.

Story #1: I saw a trailer for a film (i.e. a form of advertising). The trailer led me to think the film would be enjoyable, so I went to see it.

Where in that advertising process did they use "psychological manipulation" to make me feel "inadequate"?

Story #2: A few years ago, Michael O'Leary owned the favourite in the Ryanair Chase at the Cheltenham festival.

When interviewed on Ch4 before the race, he said that, if his horse won, Ryanair would give away 100,000* tickets for free (i.e. taxes only).

Watching this, I thought, "I hope it wins. I'll grab some of these tickets."

Was that because I was feeling "inadequate"? Or because it was going to be an outstanding offer?

(BTW, his horse lost, so there was no sale)

I could come up with hundreds of these examples.

Steve

* I can't remember the real number of tickets or the actual details of the offer, but it was a great offer.
 
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