PR Company Recommendations
- Thread starter KidsBeeHappy
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eventdomain
Be careful when dealing with 'agencies', and get a reasonable rate for the campaign. If the fee is too much, just make an excuse, walk out of the meeting and get someone else.
If this is a first-ever PR campaign, then you'll almost certainly need a second campaign, as the first will be a 'build you up' one, and you won't get much press until you are written about in quite a few publications/media.
Public relations isn't cheap - but the exposure decimates all!
If this is a first-ever PR campaign, then you'll almost certainly need a second campaign, as the first will be a 'build you up' one, and you won't get much press until you are written about in quite a few publications/media.
Public relations isn't cheap - but the exposure decimates all!
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eventdomain
Hearing good things about PR agencies is one thing, how it turns out for you is something else entirely.
These 'good things' - oh it all sounds great etc, but viewing the press page/results for one company cannot give any indication of how a campaign will turn out for you.
This will cost you hundreds and hundreds to do a first press thing, personally, if you're idea isn't brilliant, unique, I'd forget the media entirely, bcos the return won't be there, infact the media won't touch it - see they like uniqueness and they have the power, not you.
It takes too long to achieve results and if you think it's like coming out of the BB house, then your in for the shock of your lives. If you don't believe me, then fine, but I've done this and you'll be sitting there and waiting for over 12 months easily, while the agency will use your cash up, keeping you hooked, then without warning, you'll hear nothing from them, which signals the end of your contract hehe.
BTW, the agency we used was a top london international agency, which appeared to have a solid track record, but you won't know until you hire an agency and they start working for you. Too easy to get it wrong, so easy to make a mistake and:
PR agencies will typically ask for money upfront eg: 3 months worth, this ain't cheap folks
, and you got to keep on top of these guys, don't just trust them or leave them to it, keep checking on them. Trouble is, once you paid, you paid and you've done your cash, so you are really in the lap of the gods where the press is concerned.
This is NOT an instant results kind of thing!!
These 'good things' - oh it all sounds great etc, but viewing the press page/results for one company cannot give any indication of how a campaign will turn out for you.
This will cost you hundreds and hundreds to do a first press thing, personally, if you're idea isn't brilliant, unique, I'd forget the media entirely, bcos the return won't be there, infact the media won't touch it - see they like uniqueness and they have the power, not you.
It takes too long to achieve results and if you think it's like coming out of the BB house, then your in for the shock of your lives. If you don't believe me, then fine, but I've done this and you'll be sitting there and waiting for over 12 months easily, while the agency will use your cash up, keeping you hooked, then without warning, you'll hear nothing from them, which signals the end of your contract hehe.
BTW, the agency we used was a top london international agency, which appeared to have a solid track record, but you won't know until you hire an agency and they start working for you. Too easy to get it wrong, so easy to make a mistake and:
- either pay too much
- hire the wrong people.
PR agencies will typically ask for money upfront eg: 3 months worth, this ain't cheap folks
, and you got to keep on top of these guys, don't just trust them or leave them to it, keep checking on them. Trouble is, once you paid, you paid and you've done your cash, so you are really in the lap of the gods where the press is concerned. This is NOT an instant results kind of thing!!
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GRDCredit
No direct experience but this guy certainly writes a good book on the subject!
http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=121147
http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=121147
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They identify which press to target, write newsy press releases and sell in your story to journalists. PR is not hard its just time consuming and you do have to have a good command of english as well as sound communication skills. The main benefit a PR agency will offer is having the contacts in place, the writing skills and the time to execute a workable campaign, that's why you would pay someone else to do it.
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Yeah that's what i thought, but for a local buisiness, a local pr company would be better, because of contacts etc.
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I know what you mean.
Try asking them how they are going to effect your bottom line and watch them squirm.
In my experience they are very expensive, perhaps try thinking about where you need to be seen, hire a freelance writer and build your own PR plan.
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but if i rang up my local paper's promotions department (which i have done) and spoke to the right guy and then emailed him a reader offer which he then put in the paper for free (which i have done). I now have that contact. I even fitted him a new boiler the other week.
Im not rubbishing the work a pr agency does, just trying to work out whether a local small business could justify spending any decent amount of money on one, and would they get a return.
I know people spend millions on them so they obviously do a grand job, but like i say im not sure how it would work for me !!
.Im not rubbishing the work a pr agency does, just trying to work out whether a local small business could justify spending any decent amount of money on one, and would they get a return.
I know people spend millions on them so they obviously do a grand job, but like i say im not sure how it would work for me !!
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- Original Poster
- #15
Problem is for us, that we want to get some presence not in our local area, in the nationals, and offline. Locally, yes, I agree that your own contacts, and therefore relationships, are always going to be best.
Personally, locally I am great believer in the "small town mafia", that hard core of trusted worthy people in the town, whose recommendation is equal to gold-dust.
Personally, locally I am great believer in the "small town mafia", that hard core of trusted worthy people in the town, whose recommendation is equal to gold-dust.
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eventdomain
PR is about putting across that message effectively. The Chartered Institute of Public Relations say that PR is:
although my English skills aren't awful and being a professional salesman I could probably hold a conversation with Journalists, I'm too close to my business and frankly, I'm not an expert in the ins and outs of PR, so it made sense to bring in an agency. Also its the contacts, expert writing of releases, the constant contacting involved, checking, rechecking with Journalists etc, and most businesses/people won't have all the necessary contacts.
Some businesses need only a local PR presence, while others must have a National campaign. Writing an effective press release is not easy, despite what many claim, and if it's badly written, journalists won't use it and you won't get any press from it.
I doubt anyone will recommend agencies to use, I know of a pretty good one, it works, I got press from it, but why should I sell them, they aren't paying me, and as I said before, what worked for me, probably won't work for other businesses and if it fails, I don't want to be blamed for any failures.....
although my English skills aren't awful and being a professional salesman I could probably hold a conversation with Journalists, I'm too close to my business and frankly, I'm not an expert in the ins and outs of PR, so it made sense to bring in an agency. Also its the contacts, expert writing of releases, the constant contacting involved, checking, rechecking with Journalists etc, and most businesses/people won't have all the necessary contacts.
Some businesses need only a local PR presence, while others must have a National campaign. Writing an effective press release is not easy, despite what many claim, and if it's badly written, journalists won't use it and you won't get any press from it.
I doubt anyone will recommend agencies to use, I know of a pretty good one, it works, I got press from it, but why should I sell them, they aren't paying me, and as I said before, what worked for me, probably won't work for other businesses and if it fails, I don't want to be blamed for any failures.....
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If the costs don't make you think twice and the results they talk about seem worth the investment then go for it.
IMHO The best way to decide on anything in terms of marketing is think of the desired end result and work out the best way of achieving that result.
If your talking about hitting the nationals the idea has to be wiz bang to have a chance no matter how good your PR people.
It all depends on what your trying to achieve.
IMHO The best way to decide on anything in terms of marketing is think of the desired end result and work out the best way of achieving that result.
If your talking about hitting the nationals the idea has to be wiz bang to have a chance no matter how good your PR people.
It all depends on what your trying to achieve.
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I'd recommend doing the job yourself for some time and then hiring an agency. That way you'll be able to understand how they operate and control them better ;-)
Also, make sure they've got contacts with outlets you're interested in. Don't accept "70.000 journalists", ask them to show you who they know, why they think your business would fit such outlet etc.
It's all about relationships. As you can see, my English isn't superb and I'm not a native so theoretically I shouldn't be in the PR biz (at lest not in the UK/US). However, somehow I managed to establish working relationships with editors vital to "my" industry and nobody cares that I say something funny or stupid from time to time. They get their work done and so do I.
As a CEO/manager of a company you're much more authentic to journalists than any PR person. You can use it.
Also, make sure they've got contacts with outlets you're interested in. Don't accept "70.000 journalists", ask them to show you who they know, why they think your business would fit such outlet etc.
It's all about relationships. As you can see, my English isn't superb and I'm not a native so theoretically I shouldn't be in the PR biz (at lest not in the UK/US). However, somehow I managed to establish working relationships with editors vital to "my" industry and nobody cares that I say something funny or stupid from time to time. They get their work done and so do I.
As a CEO/manager of a company you're much more authentic to journalists than any PR person. You can use it.
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gemboy
Hearing good things about PR agencies is one thing, how it turns out for you is something else entirely.
These 'good things' - oh it all sounds great etc, but viewing the press page/results for one company cannot give any indication of how a campaign will turn out for you.
This will cost you hundreds and hundreds to do a first press thing, personally, if you're idea isn't brilliant, unique, I'd forget the media entirely, bcos the return won't be there, infact the media won't touch it - see they like uniqueness and they have the power, not you.
It takes too long to achieve results and if you think it's like coming out of the BB house, then your in for the shock of your lives. If you don't believe me, then fine, but I've done this and you'll be sitting there and waiting for over 12 months easily, while the agency will use your cash up, keeping you hooked, then without warning, you'll hear nothing from them, which signals the end of your contract hehe.
BTW, the agency we used was a top london international agency, which appeared to have a solid track record, but you won't know until you hire an agency and they start working for you. Too easy to get it wrong, so easy to make a mistake and:
Just be careful who you hire..... and never, ever hire based on what results they got for another company. You don't know how much the other company paid them for those results/time. I'm not saying we got ripped off, just that we didn't get good value for money.
- either pay too much
- hire the wrong people.
PR agencies will typically ask for money upfront eg: 3 months worth, this ain't cheap folks
This is NOT an instant results kind of thing!!
Methinks someone got their fingers burnt. Your dead right, if you haven't got hard news, then media isn't the answer, so if you're looking to just get your name out there and say how brilliant you are, then take an advert, but don't expect immediate returns there either. If you use a big London agency, then expect big London agency prices. Specialist provincial companies will not only be realistically priced but will give you a much more personal service. It's their expertise in understanding your business and creating newsworthy angles from stories. There are also case studies, feature articles, press opportunities, knowing what the media are looking for and that's what you are paying for. And as for 3 months up front - nice if you can get it, but most reputable PR firms will work with you and set a budget which is acceptable to both sides. Its more about building a good working relationship with your PR company, and not assuming that big is best.
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Colin is dead right. I think there is a tendency to think that PR is just : write a press release, send it, expect your phone to ring off the hook. That is not how it works. There is a lot more to PR that just writing a press release and sending to a big list of journalists. A clever agency or freelancer will work on getting you exposure through a number of tried and tested routes; this is what you will be paying for.
If you think you can do it yourself have a go and if you don't get the right results try using a smaller, regional agency and set a sensible budget with clear objectives. You say you want national coverage but quite often the nationals scour the locals for snippets to use in the daily's. How do you think dog bites postman from hertfordshire gets into the daily mail? Start local and see what success you get and go on from there.
If you think you can do it yourself have a go and if you don't get the right results try using a smaller, regional agency and set a sensible budget with clear objectives. You say you want national coverage but quite often the nationals scour the locals for snippets to use in the daily's. How do you think dog bites postman from hertfordshire gets into the daily mail? Start local and see what success you get and go on from there.
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Watcha, thanks for the positive comments about us from all those who gave us a plug... A Czech is in the post.
Just to pick up on a few points... fully agree with the majority, i.e. probably would not bother using a PR Agency for regional coverage, regional PR is a doddle (as is crucifixion).
With regards to national media exposure I think this is where PR people (notice I don't just say agencies, there are some great freelancers out there who can put you on the map and they cost significantly less than agencies) come into their own.
The good PR people (and us) have ready built relationships and contacts with the big national print, broadcast and online media, and you are hiring this relationship so you can fast track your way to building your brand and getting sales and various other w4nky marketing terms
I really don't agree with the statement that you will not see results for 12 months, in fact... I think the person who said that has either had a very bad experience or has just heard things off people who have (sorry if wrong, and more importantly; sorry if I am causing any offence).
I if look at our three most recent client wins as examples of this 12 month rule being incorrect we have delivered, in month one alone, broadcast coverage across Sky News, BBC News 24, BBC Breakfast, BBC Radio 1, BBC Extra, Metro (most influential paper in the UK), Times, Sun Telegraph, London Lite, Sun, Mail, Mirror... well, you get the point... and that is month one (oh yeah, and the Daily Sport! How could I forget that).
Now, of course, I could have mis read the thing about not seeing results for 12 months - i only skim read the post because I am also trying to eat one of the rather lovely Gu puddings, so my mind has wandered.
Anyway, Sandra & Alistair, my point does not answer your plea for help, but hopefully this will.
Try either Catherine Warilow from Warrilow PR, she is ace, Streve from Pressman PR, Rachael from Kachou, Paul from Publicity Heaven or Richard Glynn from Buzz Factory... all of these people I have spoken to from time to time and really know their onions when it comes to PR.
Hope this helps.
Just to pick up on a few points... fully agree with the majority, i.e. probably would not bother using a PR Agency for regional coverage, regional PR is a doddle (as is crucifixion).
With regards to national media exposure I think this is where PR people (notice I don't just say agencies, there are some great freelancers out there who can put you on the map and they cost significantly less than agencies) come into their own.
The good PR people (and us) have ready built relationships and contacts with the big national print, broadcast and online media, and you are hiring this relationship so you can fast track your way to building your brand and getting sales and various other w4nky marketing terms
I really don't agree with the statement that you will not see results for 12 months, in fact... I think the person who said that has either had a very bad experience or has just heard things off people who have (sorry if wrong, and more importantly; sorry if I am causing any offence).
I if look at our three most recent client wins as examples of this 12 month rule being incorrect we have delivered, in month one alone, broadcast coverage across Sky News, BBC News 24, BBC Breakfast, BBC Radio 1, BBC Extra, Metro (most influential paper in the UK), Times, Sun Telegraph, London Lite, Sun, Mail, Mirror... well, you get the point... and that is month one (oh yeah, and the Daily Sport! How could I forget that).
Now, of course, I could have mis read the thing about not seeing results for 12 months - i only skim read the post because I am also trying to eat one of the rather lovely Gu puddings, so my mind has wandered.
Anyway, Sandra & Alistair, my point does not answer your plea for help, but hopefully this will.
Try either Catherine Warilow from Warrilow PR, she is ace, Streve from Pressman PR, Rachael from Kachou, Paul from Publicity Heaven or Richard Glynn from Buzz Factory... all of these people I have spoken to from time to time and really know their onions when it comes to PR.
Hope this helps.
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for national cover you would be better off spending on SEO.
10 x the ROI ,PR has a habit of working for very short periods where as SEO is for every or untill the next bus comes along.
Even a trip to the Dragons den does not compare with the traffic generated by SEO.
Like newspaper adds PR can not be measured unlike SEO.IMHO.
Earl
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Sandra
I tend to agree with Earl on this. As you know I have had extensive PR over the years all of it free. Many , many full page newspaper articles and several multi page articles both in broadsheets and crap press. Many TV appearances on different programmes and different channels.
I have measured in fair detail the resulting business from the free PR and all I can say is I am very glad I was not paying for it. Yes it did drive business but not at a level of anywhere near the business that is driven from being on the web.
As Earl suggested it is also very spike driven. I think it may work better if you have the budget to drip feed day in day out for a very long period.
One thing in I have noticed is that in this wired up world, many pr efforts do get re-used over the years so you do get more than one shot but again still not enough in my opinion to justify large spend.
The one area where I would spend big on PR is if my product/service was unique and game changing to the industry. For 99.99% of us though we do not have that product or service.
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eventdomain
Except you won't get a ton of links from PR databases nor the web in general. Links in press releases do not suddenly attract or generate 1000's of one-way links, nor do Journalists search for online press stories, unless already dealing with an agency or PR person, and are intending to do 'follow up' stories, and even then they'd just contact the agency in the first place. They are busy people, working on stories for their paper (employer) and just don't have the time to visit vast databases, where your release will be lost amongst thousands of others all with the same idea as you.
You won't stand out doing this.
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A company I am associated with (can't name them as there not loved on here )
Spent 5 years with PR ,expensive advertising ,TV appearences.bloggs galore in fact every type of offline and online advertising promotion possible.
To arrive at x amount of visitors.
SEO doubled those visitors in 4 months with much more targeted traffic.
Earl
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Didn't say that I would, or that I would get 1000's of links from the activity, you don't need 1,000's of links to do SEO well BTW. I was simply implying that it also had it's place as a valid SEO / marketing method.
I didn't say that either.
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I don't agree that money is better spent on SEO than PR. Both can be done - and if you only have the budget for one, then which to go for is dependant on your own unique situation and what your ultimate aims are.
We get shed loads of traffic from SEO. But for one of our products, no one is searching for it - so SEO doesn't make sense. That's where PR comes in. From PR we've had coverage that would have cost a medium-sized fortune if it were paid advertising and it's led to sales we'd have never for from SEO.
I've worked with 10 Yetis and Richard Glyn and Buzz Factory and highly recommend them both.
We get shed loads of traffic from SEO. But for one of our products, no one is searching for it - so SEO doesn't make sense. That's where PR comes in. From PR we've had coverage that would have cost a medium-sized fortune if it were paid advertising and it's led to sales we'd have never for from SEO.
I've worked with 10 Yetis and Richard Glyn and Buzz Factory and highly recommend them both.
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crossdaz
What you described before about the local paper is good example. A pr agency could do that, but like you say, on a local level you did it yourself.
If you were aiming at wider area then it might not be so easy. A local pr agency would have contacts at a higher level that you might find difficult or too time consuming to acquire.
It works the same on a national/international level. If you read the Daily Telegraph there is one scum merchant who regularly gets mentioned as the saviour of the universe. This isn't a coincidence because he's a client of a firm mentioned in this thread. I guess it costs him but it must be worth it - he always gets a nice link to his site too.
Put simply, it's an old fashioned concept in a modern form - not what you know but who you know or what you're giving to who you know
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Your product is not the run of the mill products sold on the internet so you are in a niche market where people are likely to be unaware of it.
Unlike most products that have a mass appeal.
I maintain that in general PR can not hold a candle to SEO for driving long term buyers for the average online retailers.
Earl
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I am in uncharted territory here, I don't want to become one of the many who have fallen foul of upsetting sirearl however I want to put across a few general observations.
Timing could not be better for this thread as we have our second instance of having to pitch for a new client where one of the companies we are pitching against is a SEO company.
At the min I see there are being two types of PR Agency, traditional ones who don't dabble with online media in any way, and then the new breed of agency who understands online media and have their own "specialists" in various fields.
We were really lucky in that early on in our existence we worked with several clients who really opened our eyes to the value of understanding SEO and how PR can work brilliantly alongside campaigns.
As we progressed as an agency we kept coming up against the SEO conversation time and time again, and how we can prove that we can deliver similar value and returns... and so http:www.ps3pricecompare.co.uk was born!
We set up this site and optimised it as best we could and then the only marketing we gave it was EXCLUSIVELY PR.
We chose PS3's because it is a saturated market, meaning it would be tough to rank highly for key terms, and also more importantly because the commission levels for a PS3 sale is quite good.
Oh yeah, revenue is based on traditional affiliate model, i.e sale = commission payment.
So, we launched the site with a Press Release about something scandalous (think it was about blokes wanting to play games more than they want to have sexy-time with their better half) and it immediately got coverage, including valuable in bound links.
Within 2 months the site was mid way up page one of google for the term "Cheap PS3" - a key phrase researched from using Hitwise.
We have continued PR'ing it every 2 months or so and the site is now in the top 6/7 page one of google and more importantly delivering a very health revenue stream that we never really anticipated.
So, nothing other than some on-site SEO from our own knowledge and a good blast of PR to build some valuable authority links.
We now use the site as a good example to show people we know about PR and it has also inspired me to set up a few other sideline sites that are only promoted via PR.
I guess that I am trying to say that I think finding a PR agency that understands and can contribute to your existing SEO activity is what people should be looking for and this does not mean one or the other, SEO's and PR's should be working in tandem.
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Its immpossible to upset me so fear not.
maybe you would like to enlighten us with the cost of this little lot and the ensuing sales generated by it,in order that we can geta fair assessment of the ROI compared with SEO/SEM.?
I will of course reciprocate with actual figures taken from our whoson package .
"I if look at our three most recent client wins as examples of this 12 month rule being incorrect we have delivered, in month one alone, broadcast coverage across Sky News, BBC News 24, BBC Breakfast, BBC Radio 1, BBC Extra, Metro (most influential paper in the UK), Times, Sun Telegraph, London Lite, Sun, Mail, Mirror... well, you get the point... and that is month one (oh yeah, and the Daily Sport! How could I forget that)."
Earl
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