A rival to Ebay?

Asteeleleith · Oct 9, 2005

Hi all

What would ppl think to a second by even better ebay type of thing. One that allows only Trade to sell, but most ppl can register to buy?

We have established that ebay without doubt has cornered the market here, but it is still flawed and there are a number of disgruntled customers as we have seen, including me.
if a new concept along similar lines could be thought of then could it could be possible to provide a better service to rival Ebay.

i know there are already online shops etc, but what if people could use it to sell goods they want to shift quickly, it would do no harm to advertise in more than one place then?
Last minute hols even. These are just ideas, but i would invite everyones opinion
Does anyone know of anything similar on the interent already?

Al

stagetec · Oct 9, 2005

Check out http://www.qsell.co.uk/

Andy

Asteeleleith · Oct 10, 2005

Hi andy

Thanks for that, yes this is kind of the type of thing i guess we were thinking of

Seems a good one to keep an eye on, notice it also says Beta, wonder if this means it is for testing.

Al

stagetec · Oct 10, 2005

It was something a friend of mine set up a while back as a rival to eBay, but ran into the same problem as detailed elsewhere on this forum, how do you market it when you are competiting with the power of eBay, anyone got any suggestions?

Andy

Asteeleleith · Oct 10, 2005

Yes, start of lower key, don;t try to sprint before you can walk.

Start off small dealing locally to start with and with a smaller range of popular items. Esp now we are coming close to xmas, now is a time to try to market it.

The press too might be interested, if it gets local interest, local business would be interested to back it. Esp if they have last minute local offer to add. Like a local branch may have excess stock to shift quickly.

Especially if business know that joe bloggs would not be able to sell in ti as well more would be keen to use it.

The key is to test the concept first, see if it can work, keep investment down to limit downside. This way you limit the risk. Set an incentive for business to use it, no sale no fee kind of idea. But do not allow them to re list things that are obviously not going.

Just a few thoughts i have

Al

Asteeleleith · Oct 10, 2005

ps, you could consider relaunching it i see where the name comes from, but could there e a more catchy name, i thought of etrader but this has gone. Any other ideas, i could be too pinickety here, what does the rest of the forum think?
i have bookmarked the site, will take a closer lookin the morning once i have had some beauty sleep

Speak later

Al

stagetec · Oct 10, 2005

FYI Qsell is short for QuickSell, but I agree it doesn't have the same ring as eBay, but then if someone had told you they were setting up an on line auction site called eBay 10 years ago, would you have thought the name was catchy??

Andy

Asteeleleith · Oct 10, 2005

sorry about that, hence i have just edited the thread

i see where you are coing from with it

Lets see what we can come up with to help.

Al

ps, i like the telescope thats going for sale on it. I wonder if i couuld interest some of my stargazer friends to take a look.

Eagle · Oct 10, 2005

I'd say you don't stand a chance...

http://www.auctionlotwatch.co.uk/auctions.html

clairemackaness · Oct 10, 2005

Good luck, I'd be happy to be a guinea pig, but you have a huge battle on your hands.

How about Abay (alternative) or Obay (online)?

Top Hat · Oct 10, 2005

I think Google and Microsoft are the only 2 companies that could seriously take on ebay.

Unless ebay muck up

Asteeleleith · Oct 10, 2005

To be honest,

The more i hear views saying we stand no chance, the more keen i would be to give it a go, i love proving people wrong you see

As far as i can make out from my experiences plus those of other people in here, ebay are already failing, so many digruntled customers out there

We have people sellling crap and information (dud at that) on ebay. i went through the feedback on some of the items. One person was selling a get rich scheme for over a tenner, just for leaving your computer on. Turns out you might make 50p, which does not even cover the cost of running it!
It is schemers like this that give ebay a bad name, and invites competition to pick up where ebay simply fail.
It is true they dominate the market, but do they have the god gven right to simply monopolise it indefinetly? are we saying there is simply no room for competition?

Has anyone been on there lately and seen how difficult it is to sell anything there, as there are so many other similar items going for the same that urs does not even get a look in?
I would not say a rival stands no chance, if pitched correctly at the right audience, then with word of mouth to carry it anything is possible. I mean look at Loot, this is a similar thing isn;t it? Exhange and mart. They are both doing ok, and they charge a hell of a lot more for listing.

I know on the other hand other organisations like Qsell are already attempting to rival ebay. So the question to ask is where are they going wrong?

One could poach unsatisified customers from ebay by sending them a private messge. Failed to sell your item? Got to pay the listing fee anyway? We are sorry about that, why not come and list it with us for free. Of course we would only do this for trade not for someone selling brickabrack from the loft. Or ok, we could extend it to domestic as well, after careful consideration. only on invitation perhaps.

I think it would be an insterestng challenge one, if the downside could be limited then it has to be worth giving it a go. At the end of the day no one is saying the organisation would be as big as ebay, but it could still make enough business to survive! and give people a choice of who to use.

Then this is me, a natural born optimist, i never ask "Can it be done" i always ask "how can it be done"

Al

clairemackaness · Oct 10, 2005

Go for it Al, I'll be your first customer if you can get it to work

Asteeleleith · Oct 10, 2005

Thank you for that claire.

It wouldn;t happened imediately as i have other things i need to sort out first like getting my present venture up and running.

But if it does go ahead, you will be the first i would invite

Al

clairemackaness · Oct 10, 2005

Bless you, I need something to sell my stuff. I'm desperate to clear out current stocks so I can roll out my new Autumn/Winter collection.

I think I might do a 30 day clear out sale on my website.

Asteeleleith · Oct 10, 2005

I have sent you a pm claire

webit · Oct 10, 2005

Top Hat said:
I think Google and Microsoft are the only 2 companies that could seriously take on ebay.

Unless ebay muck up

I have to disagree. There is always an angle. Id start off with a SWOT of eBay in your view. And start thinking about how I could spin those strengths into a weakness.

Top of my head Id start looking at targeting (locality or sector) and working that idea.

PR would be achievable (local/UK company to target eBay rip off/disgruntled customers etc, big play of UK charities.)

No company is 100% impenetrable and its size might be a weakness that can be leveraged.

With webit.net we are in a tough marketplace. However I know that with 100% customer service and the ability to react quickly to requests (as eBay was in the early days) we are gaining ground (currently 30% growth per month). Too many large companies lose that advantage through scale or having to answer to too many people. Think about your advantage and use that, always give people what they want.

I have this book and it's worth reading:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...320/sr=1-11/ref=sr_1_2_11/026-9952139-9627640

as is this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...8375/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_11_1/026-9952139-9627640

Eagle · Oct 10, 2005

By all means go for it!

I wasn't trying to stifle your ambition - just that you need to be realistic.

bidonalot · Jan 30, 2007

since i mentioned my site BIDONLAOT.COM ebay have reduced their listing fees i wonder if thats because i was offering my sellers and buyers a better deal, so this is what i have now done, FREE listings which includes motor vehicles and caravans etc, and a 1% commission fee accross the board for everything sold and with just £1 to register which serves to verify the registration,once registered and verified the £1 is refunded and the seller is given a £5 credit.can ebay better that maybe im a rival but im going to offer a service better than theirs

Scott-Copywriter · Jan 30, 2007

bidonalot said:
since i mentioned my site BIDONLAOT.COM ebay have reduced their listing fees i wonder if thats because i was offering my sellers and buyers a better deal

It isn't. I can pretty much 100% guarentee that they have never even heard of your project since there are thousands exactly like yours, most will be a lot better.

bidonalot said:
, so this is what i have now done, FREE listings which includes motor vehicles and caravans etc, and a 1% commission fee accross the board for everything sold and with just £1 to register which serves to verify the registration,once registered and verified the £1 is refunded and the seller is given a £5 credit.can ebay better that maybe im a rival but im going to offer a service better than theirs

The £1 is a bad idea in my opinion. I would not give a website I've never heard of one pound (or my bank details) as soon as I sign-up just to get a free account I might not even use. I don't know about a 'better service' but so far Ebay is hundreds of times better in pretty much every possible way after having a look at your site.

Jon123 · Jan 30, 2007

I think its proberably more to do with them registering there main office in luxembourg and only paying 15% Vat!!

Jon

garyk · Jan 30, 2007

Asteeleleith said:
To be honest,

The more i hear views saying we stand no chance, the more keen i would be to give it a go, i love proving people wrong you see

A great attitide but the question has been asked many many times, could a rival succeed and there are many rivals and none of them successful (yet).

Asteeleleith said:
As far as i can make out from my experiences plus those of other people in here, ebay are already failing, so many digruntled customers out there

You are talking about a few hundred or even if you said a few thousand over many millions of items (last stats I saw said something like 16M+ items listed on ebay US at any one time) its a very small proportion of people.

Asteeleleith said:
We have people sellling crap and information (dud at that) on ebay. i went through the feedback on some of the items. One person was selling a get rich scheme for over a tenner, just for leaving your computer on. Turns out you might make 50p, which does not even cover the cost of running it!
It is schemers like this that give ebay a bad name, and invites competition to pick up where ebay simply fail.

But if you are selling so many items are you actually going to monitor the details of each and every one? Of course not, if junk is being sold then thats down to the user base not ebay, everyone is trying to earn extra cash from it in any way they can.

Asteeleleith said:
It is true they dominate the market, but do they have the god gven right to simply monopolise it indefinetly? are we saying there is simply no room for competition?

They dont have a god given right to, fact is they are the biggest player by far in their market space and no-one has challenged it.

Asteeleleith said:
Has anyone been on there lately and seen how difficult it is to sell anything there, as there are so many other similar items going for the same that urs does not even get a look in?

Thought it was easier to be honest as they have changed the selling screens and condensed it into one. I sold my 2 year old 40GB 4th gen ipod on there a couple of days for £110, was well chuffed since my 5th gen 80gb I have just ordered was only £100 more.

Asteeleleith said:
I would not say a rival stands no chance, if pitched correctly at the right audience, then with word of mouth to carry it anything is possible. I mean look at Loot, this is a similar thing isn;t it? Exhange and mart. They are both doing ok, and they charge a hell of a lot more for listing.

E&M has been around 100 years or so hasnt it? And Loot is an established name as well, they do well from print media and the online sales is incidental to their main business. They are doing OK but they dont have market capitalisations in the billions like ebay have.

Asteeleleith said:
I know on the other hand other organisations like Qsell are already attempting to rival ebay. So the question to ask is where are they going wrong?

Well I would say its becuase they arent offering anything unique or different from ebay. Sure you can say trade only but you are still running an online auction.

Asteeleleith said:
One could poach unsatisified customers from ebay by sending them a private messge. Failed to sell your item? Got to pay the listing fee anyway? We are sorry about that, why not come and list it with us for free. Of course we would only do this for trade not for someone selling brickabrack from the loft. Or ok, we could extend it to domestic as well, after careful consideration. only on invitation perhaps.

That *could* work, you would need automate the process so you could target thousands of people as its basically spam and you would probably get a tiny response and/or hassle from ebay if the number of messages was large.

Asteeleleith said:
I think it would be an insterestng challenge one, if the downside could be limited then it has to be worth giving it a go. At the end of the day no one is saying the organisation would be as big as ebay, but it could still make enough business to survive! and give people a choice of who to use.

It could but you are going to have to throw alot of marketing money at it just to create awareness and would have to be patient before you saw any return on investment.

Asteeleleith said:
Then this is me, a natural born optimist, i never ask "Can it be done" i always ask "how can it be done"

Well I have often kicked this one around as well. My only thinking is that you create something like ebay but you 'regionalise' it. That way you only charge people to list, and buyer and seller actually conduct the transaction face to face with cash so you get rid of paypal issues and fees and minimise fraud. Would it work? I dont know!, Would I spend money setting up an online auction site? Nope, theres 1001 other avenues you could take to generate income from a business where the other players are not so dominant.

Good luck with it all the same!

Gary

mconridge · Jan 30, 2007

If you read through the price changes you will see that the fees have increased not decreased. Although the insertation fees have come down by a few pence, the final valuation fees have increased by 9%

.

The only good point is that these changes only affect a few types of products.

bidonalot · Jan 30, 2007

Nobody asked about bank details and besides paypal and ebay store your credit card details, thats why i dont ask for any information like this, secondly ebay have over the years updated the site giving more choices but at the end of the day its only an auction site, size does not make a difference, maybe the vigorous advertising like getting ebay in you mail so thats a little too much, anyway my site will improve as i find people to join me who will better the site, at least my site souns like an auction site, bid on a lot is what you do at an auction, you dont ebay it do you, if i bid at an auction for something then im bidding on the lot i want, whats an ebay??. ive been ripped off too many times on ebay anyway and want to share what i have with others and will make sure that sellers too are not there just to make money out of postal charges, in fact some make more money out of the postal charge than they actually make selling the goods, i mean you buy a belly stud for 50p and they charge £3.95 post, the actual postal charge is about 45p,so on my site this will be monitored to prevent that, now thats something new.it will take time to get known but then once they know youre there they will all come, the £1 fee is only to verify, at least you get your money back and you say you dont know me, do you know ebay and paypal then?.or is it because you know of them, if you check around the internet you will see how many people have lost money on ebay and paypal, i should know i was one of them. time will tell but im going to give it a good go and because someone has a big site does not make any difference, do not two supermarkets sell goods next door to each other selling similar goods?. likewise the same here, i have a lot to do but will try anyway. bidonalot not a bay? a bay is where boats are kept that sometime sink when a smaller boat comes along and causes a few ripples that turn into waves that sinks the big ship!

Gavin Harris · Jan 30, 2007

Just to add... www.kellel.com have been advertising very heavily on the local radio station in Slough, so they've spent thousands on advertising, yet there still doesn't seem to be any interest in the site.

So if that's an eBay alternative that has spent lots of money on advertising, I can't see how you can improve on that...

bidonalot · Jan 30, 2007

OK but remember this ebay had a site like that once where it was empty and over time it grew, it did not grow overnight, in my opinion ebay are too aggressive in the advertising they do, i mean you cant open you mail without seeing the name ebay, ebay, ebay, why dont you ever see yahoo,qxl, ebid etc, i mean even when you search for something the search engines say ebay and nobody else, thats all advertising. the name kellel does that sound like bid or auction or lot, its as bad as a bay or harbour..what about if someone starts an auction siter called harbour.com does it sound like an auction site or a seaside resort. no ebay only think they are the best and only site but thats not true, its what they want you all to think that ebay is the only site that lets people sell and buy, ITS NOT. and if i can do anything about it will give people a better option, it will take time but at least im going to hang around a while and upgrade my site, for one thing i will be offering MORE selling catagories than ebay does, at present i have things on my site ebay does not have. what about the scrolling pages, my fees for selling cars is FREE, thats better isnt it.

An Oasis · Jan 30, 2007

The only way anyone could possibly succeed against ebay would by stealth tactics. E.g. You would need to start with a niche and build, build, build. I doubt wether anyone would get any V.C. funding for the project Ebay spend unbelievably stupid amounts on ghost bidding (thats my term it means ad sense or equivalent even when they have no product in). They are in things for the long haul; it would be a very committed company and backers who take them on. The project would take huge balls or ebay to stuff up on a monumental basis. I guess put the process in place and wait for ebay to get to the point where its loyal base start to fall away You would need some serious business brains & funding in place, I give up.

bidonalot · Jan 30, 2007

you dont have to have millions of pounds to take on ebay you just do it and thats exactly what im doing, after all its only a name isnt it and an online auction site with lots of members, if people want to try and see on my site thats fine, maybe i will ask microsoft or google to back me up but at the end of the day size has nothing to do with it, its only that everyone is being told there is only one auction place, ebay, again thats not true, I AM A RIVAL TO EBAY and proud of it, i know i used to sell on yahoo uk auctions and that was a lot better but since selling on ebay have lost lots of money due to the amout of stuff these which decreases the price you should get although buyers get a better deal. anyway i challenge ebay im not afraid im only a competitor like the others but who knows who the challanging winner will be, time will tell

Scott-Copywriter · Jan 30, 2007

bidonalot said:
you dont have to have millions of pounds to take on ebay

Yes you do.

bidonalot said:
you just do it and thats exactly what im doing, after all its only a name isnt it and an online auction site with lots of members, if people want to try and see on my site thats fine,

Theres a difference between how you're using words. Yes you're taking on Ebay and becoming a 'rival' like the thousands of other auction websites. However you will never compete.

bidonalot said:
maybe i will ask microsoft or google to back me up

This just made me laugh.

bidonalot said:
but at the end of the day size has nothing to do with it

Size has everything to do with it.

I'm normally not this blunt but you're looking at this so unrealistically and ignoring what everyone says. I'm sure you can see yourself that your auction website has no members. Say in a situation where you did some marketing and managed to get a person to visit the website. What do you think they are going to do when they see your website without ANY members with nothing to buy and no one to sell their stuff to? Then to top it off the website looks unprofessional and you're asking for a refunded pound and their back details to sign-up?

You don't seem to be making a decent point so at least try and answer me this.

bidonalot · Jan 30, 2007

Thats correct no memebers YET but again size has nothing to do with it a mini can go faster than a rolls royce im sure, is size anything to do with it, ebay are afraid of the competition thats why they advertise so much as they say the bigger they are the harder they fall and the small ones take over, lets just see how it goes,there are lots on ebay ive spoken too who are unhappy so im directing them to my site to show them there is life outside of the bay

Jan 30, 2007

Remember... size isn't everything

Jan 30, 2007

Although I always think it is those with small ones who say that

Kind of like the old 'Money doesn't make you happy' argument - invented by the rich man to keep the poor man feeling satisfied and in his place.

If you think it is worthwhile mate, you go for it. If nothing else, you will learn some stuff along the way which will be useful for you in the longer term. At worst, you will be out a few quid and some time-based effort.
At best, you are the next ebay.

Good luck
Mark.

Scott-Copywriter · Jan 30, 2007

bidonalot said:
Thats correct no memebers YET but again size has nothing to do with it a mini can go faster than a rolls royce im sure, is size anything to do with it, ebay are afraid of the competition thats why they advertise so much as they say the bigger they are the harder they fall and the small ones take over, lets just see how it goes,there are lots on ebay ive spoken too who are unhappy so im directing them to my site to show them there is life outside of the bay

You just didn't answer my question whatsoever.

Size has everything to do with it, auction websites are not cars. EVERY business is afraid of competition and every business advertises to win, thats how business works in every sector across the globe. However in this case I don't think Ebay has anything to worry about with their current regular userbase, they just want to make more money.

You don't seem to realise the size involved. You may have spoke to a few people who are unhappy out of a few thousand unhappy people worldwide. However theres MILLIONS of perfectly happy customers (like me) who do not care about the fee's much (sure we would all prefer them cheaper) and who get a good service.

Jan 30, 2007

Another point I thought of & i dunno how it fits in - I repair a heck of a lot of Pc's in peoples homes. They do not understand that 'ebay' is an autcion site and there are others - they think 'ebay' is THE auction site.
Kind of like people calling vacuum cleaners 'hoovers'.

I just dunno how you ever get this changed.

bidonalot · Jan 30, 2007

the only reason youre on ebay is because you are under the impression its the only place and because its where everyone else has followed the crowd and love paying fees to be on ebay, its like paying a high price to be seen in a particular club because its the thing to do so when they say online auction they say ebay because they dont think there are others, see they are under the impression thats the only place and dont mind paying the high fees associated with the bay club, size is not everything and an auction site can be as good or bad as a car, you carry on paying the fees thats fine.....

bidonalot · Jan 30, 2007

Welcome to Bidonalot
Its free to join with no listing fees for any item including cars and caravans we charge just a 1% interest fee for all end of auction fees and thats all,
There is no registration fee that is payable
£5 free credit when you register the only fees to pay are
of just 1% on everything sold
We want all who buy and sell on here to treat each other with respect and if problems arise we will do our best to help resolve them.
Thanks from the Bidonalot Team

garyk · Jan 30, 2007

Just checked out your site, its got the following for sale-

Collectables(-2)
Computing(-1)
DVD Video(1)

So you actually -2 items for sale in total on your site???? Think you need to get the basics right before you even have the tiniest chance in the world of even getting anywhere.

The reason everyone is on ebay is simple;
If I'm a seller I want maximum exposure to give me the best chance of getting the highest price
If I'm a buyer I wanted the widest choice and be able to compare prices of the same item to get the best price.

This is the icing on the cake on your About us page

This online auction was started by me to after too many times ive been abused and conned on a certain auction site so to avoid this stress have decided to do my own site
NO MORE STRESS AND NO MORE BEING CONNED AND ABUSED

Really inspires people doesn't it? Even with the basic grammatical errors, you my friend are in dreamland!

bidonalot · Jan 30, 2007

WE WILL SEE
as i said im not high and mighty and make errors that shows im not proud, do you make mistakes, bet you dont
ebay does not get maximum response at all its what you have been told, you stay on ebay and carry on paying, remember my site has a long way to go, or maybe a short time before they start leaving ebay, time will tell

Scott-Copywriter · Jan 30, 2007

bidonalot said:
the only reason youre on ebay is because you are under the impression its the only place and because its where everyone else has followed the crowd and love paying fees to be on ebay, its like paying a high price to be seen in a particular club because its the thing to do so when they say online auction they say ebay because they dont think there are others, see they are under the impression thats the only place and dont mind paying the high fees associated with the bay club, size is not everything and an auction site can be as good or bad as a car, you carry on paying the fees thats fine.....

Thats a complete load of crap, sorry.

Like I've said about 5 or 6 times already, if there was a better auction site with all (or most of) the following:

-A better service
-Cheaper fee's
-Lots of buyers and auctioneers (millions)
-Better security
-Better website

Then I'd most definately switch to them. However there is no one out there which even comes close to Ebay in that respect and thats why me and millions of others would not leave Ebay when we find nothing wrong with it.

I'm not sure if you can grasp that not many people are that bothered about the fee's (enough to find another auction website). I would not switch to an empty, unsecure and pretty unprofessional looking website just to save a couple of quid on fee's because I wouldn't be able to sell or buy anything. Also if anyone is bothered enough to switch then they are going to most probably go to the next most successful auction websites, above the many other thousands like yours.

Bidonalot do you mind saying how old you are? I'm just very curious.

abiz · Jan 30, 2007

How about www.abid.tv (currently available), and joint-venture with a someone like bid-up TV, as you would (perhaps) compliment each other's services, and hence advertise for each other.

Just an idea...

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