eBay will never be the same

redrob · May 25, 2009

Many analysts will give similar reasons for ebays deminishing status.

A) eBays sharp rise in fees undermined their members loyalty.

B) Their erratic changes to the feedback system left a lot to be desired.

C) While the introduction of Paypal boosted eBay 10 fold, its "Boss banker" attitude is now responsible for the loss of many members.

The above are just some of the analysts findings. eBay shall never be the same again. They literally had the world in their hands. Then they reefed them!

eBays main opposition presently is hard to pinpoint!
The reasons are rather obvious to everyone.

1) None of those in operation are 100% user friendly.(OR anywhere near it!)

2) Where costs are concerned, None can be considered "A good deal"

3) A direct buyer or seller feedback to sites administration does not exist.

4) None offer similar or a better payment system than Paypal.

If you seriously consider the 4 items listed above, and can possibly implement them, YOU can fill that spot!
Because, those are what 99.9% of potential members want.(The other 0.01% work for either ebay or paypal!)

Both ebay and paypal have allowed gluttony to rule them overwhelmingly!
Hence the ever popular websites......

http://ebaysucks.com

http://paypalsucks.com

plus the ever popular avatar appearing frequently

I as a past seller and buyer on eBay have experienced a lot of the above and MORE! While eBay shall continue to hold on to its reputation, I believe its demise bagan some time ago.

fedup with eBay try http://www.electronicenterprise.co.uk it's free to list so give it a go.

KidsBeeHappy · May 25, 2009

I think the ebay demise can be pinpointed to a very bad interview on watchdog. Customer is king, all sellers are rip-off merchants, seems to be the Watchdog ethos, and well implemented by ebay.

I too used to be an ebay powerseller, sold near on 5000 things over a few years, and 100% feedback rating. Sold the first few things in a few years last week, 5 items, and 2 disputes, including a customer who was lodging complaints because I refused to refund them until they returned the item in question. What can you do? Walk away.

gogojonny · May 25, 2009

Boxby said:
I think the ebay demise can be pinpointed to a very bad interview on watchdog. Customer is king, all sellers are rip-off merchants, seems to be the Watchdog ethos, and well implemented by ebay.

I too used to be an ebay powerseller, sold near on 5000 things over a few years, and 100% feedback rating. Sold the first few things in a few years last week, 5 items, and 2 disputes, including a customer who was lodging complaints because I refused to refund them until they returned the item in question. What can you do? Walk away.

Ebay pulled my listing a few weeks ago as another seller had complained I breached their design right.

Ebay told me to get in contact with the seller. I've been in contact, yet the seller has told Ebay that I haven't. Still waiting for a response.

This obviously has nothing to do with the fact as I was a new seller and the seller making the complaint sells the same products as me.

The seller had been in contact with me before and told me their design rights numbers. The products do not look like mine. The seller actually thought that the trademark they had (the name of their shop) gave them a divine right to sell that type of product on Ebay.

Ebay will not do anything. They will not check the design rights and say it is up to me to sort it out. I have explained what the seller is up to but to no avail.

Oh and the seller in question is not a registered business seller and offers no refunds.

Bye Bye Ebay! I agree we have to walk away. It is a breeding ground for crooks and cheats and in my opinion should not be allowed to operate in this country.

Dawg · May 25, 2009

eBays results for Q1 2009 are very respectable. (Forbes)
As Mark Twain said:"The reports of (it's) death are greatly exaggerated"

It is changing it's business models, and people are getting squeezed out as a result, but as Boxby said: "Walk away".

(Q. for you Sandra: how much does the haulage industry earn from eBay? I live in a non affluent part of the UK, an 'eBay town', and my couriers say some days all traffic is eBay, and the industrial estates are dead.)

KidsBeeHappy · May 25, 2009

Ebay has created a new market for the couriers. It's one that doesn't sit too well with the same day couriers because they price based on £ per mile, and that doesn't work for £40 sofas going from london to leeds.

So a new breed of courier business has developed based on running permanently on backload and groupage rates without the added advantage of a full paying outgoing trip. Which is a risky strategy. As the economy has slowed down more and more businesses are targeting the ebay business. Parcel2go today launched an ebay application.

The thing is, this only works well if ebay does its stuff well. If ebay can't make buyers and sellers feel that their being treated fairly all that ebay will do is sell low value tat, because sellers will be too scared of the paypal dispute route if selling anything valuable, and buyers are too scared of the fakes to buy anything valuable.

It only works, if ebay works.

MH1 · May 25, 2009

Plenty of life left in ebay for some, as with the rest of the retail world or online sales it has it's challenges, but for many it is still a good selling platform.

As for the haulage industry earnings from ebay, very high IMO. I used to run two vans permanently on ebay courier work, all obtained through simple ebay adverts, worth approx £1000 a week in profit, but that was two years ago. Most the companies are working for half my rate of two years ago and all their overheads have increased a fair bit.

KidsBeeHappy · May 25, 2009

Reading the economist, they're anticipating long term oil prices to make last summer seem like a walk in the park

atmcouk · May 25, 2009

Don't get me started on eBay...I've just lost my Power Seller Status with them.There's no way I'm accepting Pay Pal if I'm selling 25 Playstaion 3's as a wholesale lot....the fees kill what little profit is left.Ebay states that you have to offer Pay Pal on your listings.There's no way I would ship to a unconfirmed Pay Pal address....Bottom line is eBay are loosing sellers Big Time & I'm one of them.Ebay is great for the buyer...not so great for the seller.Who ever came up with the idea sellers can no longer leave negative feedback must be on Crack...Many buyers use this to their advantage by bidding on items they have no intention on paying for ( non paying bidders ).Very frustrating for the seller and more work ie form filling etc....

Rant over...

keepitsecret · May 25, 2009

I agree.. give it a couple of years and eBay will be dead..

Customer maybe king in the retail industry, but as a commerical company sitting on the fence between sellers and buyers, I believe eBay should try and give a little bit more credit to legit sellers who are being scammed, lied to, cheated and treated unfairly by some buyers. They will end up pushing the sellers somewhere else, and then no one will want to place there items on ebay for crazy fee's, building up a good feedback status only to have it revoked becasue of a bad buyer is just some of the nightmare stories you here...

Fair enough eBay standing up for the little guy (buyers) but where's the protection for sellers?

I personally think/hope ebay cannot/will not get any bigger than it already is.. it will just fizzle out when then next big thing comes along.

redrob · May 26, 2009

I agree eBay will probably end up disappearing if they keep up their high fees and poor customer service I hope I'm the one to take its place

I don't even think that ebid will take its place as they are in the same boat most of the items on their are fake.

Rich Leigh · May 26, 2009

I think eBay are moving away from what make them popular in the first place whilst I was still at school; the ability to find a great bargain, whether second-hand or not.

As I haven't really looked into it, I'm not sure as to the reasons, but it's definitely helping sites like www.preloved.co.uk, who are all about the second hand and gaining a loyal following well into 7 figures I'm told.

Beachcomber · May 26, 2009

Personally I believe one of the strongest contenders to the ebay crown is www.specialistauctions.com

The site is not as user friendly or as easy to navigate but it has one major benifit - it's moderated by proper people who you can contact and who will email you BEFORE ending any listings asking you to amend / remove yourself etc.

Makes the world of difference.

NBDealer · May 26, 2009

I sold an Xbox 360 game for £20. I had receipt of payment from the buyer from paypal so I then packed the game and sent it.

4 days later I received another email from paypal saying the payment had been returned to the buyer because my email address had not been verified - I had recently added a new one. Perhaps they should not have accepted payment in the first place then and sent me an email accordingly. At least I would not have posted the item until I had sorted the verification out.

I then had to chase the buyer for the payment back as he had the goods already, but heard nothing. He got a free game, and I couldn't leave negative feedback. Ebay's response was that I go through their dispute system which I did, and found no recourse for what had happened. In the end I had to close the dispute and put it down to a bad transaction.

This is why I'm not using it again, imagine if it had been for a large amount of money?

gogojonny · May 27, 2009

E-mail today from a buyer - not received their order. Funny as I have the certificate of posting.

Too many people think 'lets blame Royal Mail' - yes they do lose stuff but not as regular as people make it to be.

Oh and I am still waiting for payment for an order. Not sent it yet off course but it's annoying chasing it up.

I find Ebay to be a horrible place now and I am pulling out. But what really saddens me is the low life people who lie and cheat to screw the system, in order to gain a few quid. Ebay is a breeding ground for them.

thekitchendesigner · May 27, 2009

Its a shame they dont adopt the freecycle model - lots of regional/local mods watching over those locally - therefore you can get a response quickly and theres a bit more of a 'local' feel about it

I sold a fair amount on ebay once, but was put right off for various reasons. As someone says above, its no longer about getting bargain, but more about which seller can outdo you or play games.

keepitsecret · May 27, 2009

Ebay = Scum. I do hope it rots and decays becasue it doesnt help sellers at all.

MH1 · May 27, 2009

E-mail today from a buyer - not received their order. Funny as I have the certificate of posting.

So if things were the other way round, and you had not received an order you would be happy if your supplier simply stated they had posted the goods?

Some people make you laugh, no offence but the sooner such sellers call it a day on any selling channel the better for all concerned. Whether you like it or not, the least someone should expect is the goods to arrive, not excuses that they were definetely posted, items do get lost occassionaly.

vvaannmmaann · May 27, 2009

Quote "E-mail today from a buyer - not received their order. Funny as I have the certificate of posting."Your proof of postage is not proof of receipt.Have you considered using the Recorded Delivery system?

KidsBeeHappy · May 27, 2009

MH1 said:
So if things were the other way round, and you had not received an order you would be happy if your supplier simply stated they had posted the goods?

Some people make you laugh, no offence but the sooner such sellers call it a day on any selling channel the better for all concerned. Whether you like it or not, the least someone should expect is the goods to arrive, not excuses that they were definetely posted, items do get lost occassionaly.

I think this sums up the ebay situation perfectly.

Sellers no longer have the trust that the customer is just an ordinary normal nice person who genuinely hasn't received the goods.

Buyers no longer have the trust that the seller is just an honest hardworking business, and that the royal mail have just messed up a little.

This is what ebay needs to fix - the trust thing

websnail · May 27, 2009

Boxby said:
This is what ebay needs to fix - the trust thing

I don't think they can...

The only way to do that would be to put all transactions through eBay post with eBay payments and eBay delivery services taking the signatures. Not to mention, opening of all items sent through their services, verification that goods were as described... verifying ownership, and more besides.

Basically eBay is and will remain a niche for internet based boot sales whilst also providing a starting point for business and product ideas that don't have the initial starting capital to go it alone.

In a word it will never work, especially when they patently recognise the limitations of what they're providing and just acting on an almost random basis to enforce rules and regulations in ways that make little sense other than to look good. In a lot of ways I'd equate eBay to politicians... it's all about spin and making money.

mubin · May 27, 2009

I'm sorry but I have to disagree here.

is ebay going away, not a snowballs chance in hell is that going to happen.

Ebay is a global marketplace connecting millions of consumers with millions of sellers on a daily basis. The only other entitiy that comes close in that regards is Amazon and they only do fixed price.

KidsBeeHappy · May 27, 2009

I think the problem is that it DID work, and work very well. Many of the people who have traded on ebay long term, have seen that it can work beautifully. However, at present it isn't.

We used to sell antiques, furniture, china etc worth thousands of pounds on ebay, selling to buyers all over the world, delivering ourselves, with couriers & carriers, International antique shippers and the parcel companies. And we probably got around 2 issues a month, and these were normall sorted quickly and easily. More importantly, in the 2000 transactions that we did, I think only 3 of them were customers trying to pull a fast one. It genuinely did used to work very well.

lesliedocherty · May 27, 2009

I have an ebay shop and last week bought a Dymo machine and a box of 3rd gen labels.

Dymo arrived next day, feedback was left, all good.

3 days later i get a dispatch note from the powerseller selling the labels, telling me he has automated software that will only leave feedback on receipt of my positive feedback.
AND, the package in transit, if it goes missing, he will assist me in claiming for it, BUT if i leave negative feedback he will offer absolutely no help (the package arrived a week after i ordered).

Its the ars*holes likethis that give ebay a bad name, i am, after 7 days have passed leaving negative feedback,.

mubin · May 27, 2009

Boxby said:
I think the problem is that it DID work, and work very well. Many of the people who have traded on ebay long term, have seen that it can work beautifully. However, at present it isn't.

We used to sell antiques, furniture, china etc worth thousands of pounds on ebay, selling to buyers all over the world, delivering ourselves, with couriers & carriers, International antique shippers and the parcel companies. And we probably got around 2 issues a month, and these were normall sorted quickly and easily. More importantly, in the 2000 transactions that we did, I think only 3 of them were customers trying to pull a fast one. It genuinely did used to work very well.

The supply of sellers will always be there though. You may have left but there will be 3 waiting to take your place.

It's the circle of life - Mufasa, Lion King (1996)

websnail · May 27, 2009

Thinking about it, you're probably right Boxby, the old feedback system worked well... removing the ability for sellers to give negative feedback just killed it dead.

As for the hydra analogy... too true... I'm just kicking myself for sending out a package by mistake when the eCheque hadn't cleared and of course, this one time it bounced. Another £9 lesson to reinforce the others I guess.

ukbiz · May 27, 2009

Ebay has become a joke. Sellers are held ransom by dishonest buyers and there is nothing we can do about it. I have 96 items awaiting payment, before the change in the feedback system this would never be the case.

MH1 · May 27, 2009

I'm just kicking myself for sending out a package by mistake when the eCheque hadn't cleared and of course, this one time it bounced. Another £9 lesson to reinforce the others I guess.

This is the main reason I work only off the paypal site, since the clients name and address are not even visible until the payment has cleared. Until you actually have payment you haven't made a sale.

As for non payers, the recession has as much to do with this as any recent ebay changes, normally I get around two non payers a month, even after the changes several months ago.

In the last 35-45 days this has shot up to over twelve, with four payments not clearing at the bank on top of that figure. So with no major changes in the last month or so problematic clients have increased eight fold.

I would prefer a fair feedback system on ebay, but I can also understand that ebay had too do something about tit for tat negatives that were given out by the vast majority of sellers.

The world keeps changing, ebay included. People simply have to adjust or find another sales channel.

KidsBeeHappy · May 27, 2009

MH1 said:
I would prefer a fair feedback system on ebay, but I can also understand that ebay had too do something about tit for tat negatives that were given out by the vast majority of sellers.

The world keeps changing, ebay included. People simply have to adjust or find another sales channel.

This carrys on the assumption that all buyers are perfect and all sellers are rubbish. And this really really isn't the case. There are thousands of proper genuine sellers on there.

There are buyers that make impulse purchases and then either don't pay, or invent reasons why the sellers is in the wrong just so that they can return it for a refund.

That's just life, and that's just people. In the real world someone buys a jumper, takes it home, trys it on, doesn't like it, and takes it back to the shop.

Ebay doesn't do this well. It doesn't encourage buyers to be honest and upfront and just say "I don't like it" or "it doesn't fit" or "i've changed my mind". The serious sellers will anticipate this and build it into their sales strategy, anticipating returns, but even with that ebay seems to encourage buyers to adopt a culture of blame.

Buyers branding around 100% feedback, "It can't be my fault because i'm perfect, look it says so". But what does that mean, nothing, because sellers can't leave negative feedback.

Shouldn't sellers be able to see if a customer has a history of non-payment? Shouldn't sellers be able to see if a customer has repeated returns for no reason? At the moment sellers have no protection at all from dodgy buyers. None.

When we used to sell, anything that went over a certain value we would review the feedback of the bidder to ensure that it was probable that the item would sell, be paid for, and not be sent back. And when you were selling antique furniture the risks are higher, you would be amazed how many people expect a victorian dining table to be in perfect condition. (Yes, it will have some marks and scratches on it, it's 150 years old and has been used as a dining table

). Now, those steps that we took to protect ourselves from the problem buyers are all gone.

MH1 comments are a perfect example of how everything bad about ebay has been left at the sellers feet. And it's really not the case.

Maybe ebay would be a heck of lot better if the dodgy buyers, the scammers and the people that think they can get something for nothing found an alternative buying channel.

redrob · May 27, 2009

I have noticed form the beginning of this thread that 80% is Negative and 20% is Positive and that is the same for this thread http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=111162 so that go's and shows you that eBay is not that good any more if you want to use a new auction site that you want to be able to trust then try http://www.electronicenterprise.co.uk I will give you the best customer service that you can possibly get from eBay I am not competing with them I am here to help people like you to make a living and make a success out of their business gave it a go it's free if you have any questions then please e-mail me at [email protected] or PM me.

garyk · May 27, 2009

mubin said:
I'm sorry but I have to disagree here.

is ebay going away, not a snowballs chance in hell is that going to happen.

Ebay is a global marketplace connecting millions of consumers with millions of sellers on a daily basis. The only other entitiy that comes close in that regards is Amazon and they only do fixed price.

I'm with you Mubin, sorry folks you are talking about individual or group issues that in comparison to the *worldwide* market of buyers, sellers and live auctions is just a drop in the ocean. They wont be going away anytime soon they are a billion dollar business and no-one is anyway near them.

MH1 · May 27, 2009

This carrys on the assumption that all buyers are perfect and all sellers are rubbish. And this really really isn't the case.

It does nothing of the sort. I am a powerseller under several ID's on ebay, each one currently at 100% feedback, but I appreciate anytime someone can change this percentage unjustly, but, so what? It's hardly the end of the world, like most sellers I get regular email feedback extortion attempts for discounts etc, I politely call their bluff and stick to the deal.

Obviously there are good buyers and sellers on ebay, but the simple fact remains, one major issue putting buyers off using ebay in the past was the fear of receiving negative feedback in response to any they had left themselves.

As I mentioned, I would like to see a fairer feedback policy, I was hugely critical when ebay changed theirs since this was the cornerstone USP that built the community in the early days in particular.

Unfortunately things have swung too far the other way, so something needs changing, quite what I'm not sure. A much bigger problem to feedback is the search system not working well and the forced introduction of free postage on many catagories, this is what will change ebay a lot more in the near future.

Alison Jones · May 28, 2009

HI

I would say that ebay fees are inline with the likes of Amazon fees.

I have recently started both an ebay shop and Amazon selling.

I have more sales on ebay, so I even moved some rarer items from my amazon selling account to ebay auction because of this. There are even some nice ebayers, I had a message from an ebayer thanking me for putting some rare items on ebay that they have been struggling to find for years which I thought was nice.

I think ebay will survive because many sellers prefer selling on ebay then anywhere else. Especially with rare items that may have no way of pricing correctly as there is no information out there, auctions are great for that, put a reasonable start price on and if that item is rare people will bid what they are willing to pay (rather then if that item was on a fixed price site like amazon, underprice the item you lose out on profit, overprice the item and it just won't sell.

Alison

retroedgewebdesign · May 28, 2009

I'm not a massive ebay user, only ever sold about 100 items on there but I've noticed a number of changes over the last few years. I used to be able to get real bargains on there, but nowadays if I look for books/dvds/xbox 360 games etc etc there are always hundreds of listings, all buy it now and normally when you add postage they are more expensive than the rrp, can't get my head around that, does anyone actually make any money doing this! And yes, the fees that are now charged mean I quickly gave up on selling stuff, minimal profit and too much effort.

IsaBella123 · May 28, 2009

I agree with rip-off eBay. I've had -ive feedback from buyers who are just plain dishonest. What can you do? Nothing.

redrob · May 30, 2009

I agree with rip-off eBay. I've had -ive feedback from buyers who are just plain dishonest. What can you do? Nothing.

(Nothing) no if you are fed up with eBay then look for another company you can provide you with the same service try and sell your items on http://www.electronicenterprise.co.uk we have a good amount of traffic coming to our site and plenty of buyers but not many sellers give it a go its free to list your items you can win great prizes just by selling on our site this is the offer

you can get more information just by e-mail us on this [email protected]

movietub · Jul 17, 2011

I think the original idea of ebay is still a very good one and they have little real competition. I'm talking about them as an auction site of course. This is how they started, and this is still their core purpose (supposedly).

The fact they are shrinking has nothing to do with failure in their core business I don't think. It's just that as they grew as an auction site they almost accidently became one of the best ways to buy or sell online full stop. The earlier online shops were pretty ropey. Payment integration was awkward, security concerns were rife, most CMS's couldn't offer anything like ebay style navigation, intelligent search, product filtering and a 100 other features ebay had from day one that were considered 'advanced'. Merging with paypal also made the 'in-house' payment system the easiest to setup and use.

Now, anyone with patience and the desire to learn a little can have their own web-shop with the same feature set. Shoppers also know how to judge an ecommerce site and how to check it's genuine and properly secured.

So I say ebay started as a great auction site. It still is a great auction site, it's still the biggest and best at what it is designed to do. I also say that for a good few years they were for many the best way to buy or sell new products on a routine basis online. That is increasingly no longer the case.

So they arn't failing. They simply borrowed a market sector temporarily as they were in a position to do it best. If they lose all their ebay shops, power sellers and retail shoppers - they are still the leading auction site.

Anyway - people with ebay shops should switch to their own online shop as it has more potential and they should want too step up a gear. Not just because they want to dodge fees on ebay.

stukie99 · Jul 18, 2011

For some reason my partner created an eBay and paypal account, fully verified it, then decided to sell her faulty blackberry as spares or repairs. The buyer won the phone, sent payment, however both the eBay and Paypal account was then suspended "requesting further information". She provided this information by sending a copy of her passport, confirming her location identity by telephone and then had to send off a bank statement. The account limitation was then lifted, to be put in place again when she tried to withdraw the funds. This time however, the account wasn't limited. It has instead been closed, and the decision can't be appealed against. She asked so I won't be able to have an eBay or Paypal account, the contact centre agent simply replied no, you can't use our services. When she asked Why? They said they couldn't disclose the information with her.

What the hell???

KateCB · Jul 18, 2011

I woud be quoting freedom of Information act I think! What a very odd scenario - so how does she get her money for the goods the buyer paid her for?

stukie99 · Jul 18, 2011

KateCB said:
I woud be quoting freedom of Information act I think! What a very odd scenario - so how does she get her money for the goods the buyer paid her for?

Well as she couldn't even log in after submitting the documents they asked for, customer services issued the buyer a refund, and reversed all transactions, listing fees, and final value added fees. It's disgusting really, especially the effort she went to all to ensure a smooth transaction took place, she co-operated, to be 'banned' anyway.

They say they won't disclose information as to why for security reasons. Very frustrating and disgusting!!

reinstenanoventures · Jul 18, 2011

Yup! ebay was totally different and interesting few days back but now times lots of other competitors are giving to kick to ebay.

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