computer set up... advice for office at home 6 stations?

maxine · May 16, 2009

Situation:

Office with 2 pc's and one laptop. All xp. 2 sets of broadband (separate suppliers and routers each) and mobile broadband on its way with vodafone dongle (when I get it hopefully soon)

Another 3 laptops also being used (wireless)

Should I set up a small business network? Should I buy a server?

What's the best way to organise ourselves ie; sharing printer (have a wireless facility on printer that I have never used) can share files online so dont have to be linked

Oh and 4 Voip handsets and backup to think of.

I have to muddle through from residential property until I can get into premises in about 10 months time.

Am open to advice for me to do it myself (if easy) or remote service to talk me though doing it myself or local company to come on site and do it for me

Thank you

Subbynet · May 16, 2009

What do you want to achieve? That's the question... You seem to be looking for a solution to an unknown problem...

maxine · May 16, 2009

well, maybe, but at the moment they just all need to share internet and printer connection but I am not too bothered about sharing files but I dont want to impact on VOIP call quality.

Then trying to think of longer term in terms of volume of calls and data and if I should be thinking of anything else?

KM-Tiger · May 16, 2009

There are a lot of possibilities, but whether there is a business case to pay for them is another matter.

Let's start simple: do you have the VOIP phones on one broadband connection and PC's on the other?

Printer sharing: is the printer attached to a PC or directly to the network?

Backup: what do you need to backup? One advantage of storing all business data on a server (including email) is that it makes backup straightforward, indeed it can easily be automated and monitored for success.

maxine · May 16, 2009

Thanks KM. At the moment everything is on one broadband and the other was unplugged in a bit of a temper as it's not very good. Still active, still working but a bit tempermental.

The VOIP is currently only for small volume of inbound calls but this will increase over the next few months and if I could get away with using it for outbound then I would like to do that.

I dont know whether to put the 2 pc's and 2 voip on the best broadband and then put the laptops and the other voip onto the weaker broadband.

The laptops will be used for working with an online CRM system if that helps understand things a bit more.

Appreciate advice

KM-Tiger · May 16, 2009

My instinct would be to put the VOIP phones on the 'good' broadband as they will be less tolerant of glitches. (Technically the voice data is transmitted by a different method to web browsing or email that has no error checking) It'll drive you mad if parts of conversations just disappear! How many phones will you have? You should be OK with say 4 simultaneous calls on an ordinary ADSL connection, but it's something to be aware of that you might need to upgrade that connection if you get problems.

If your online CRM is where most of your business data is then that lessens the need for a server as presumably the CRM provider is doing backup, and if you are using IMAP for email that covers that also.

Is there a way of troubleshooting your 'bad' broadband connection? I had trouble last year and metaphorically threw a few things through the window. Turned out it was the router power supply failing! Is there a router? Was it provider supplied? If so they should give support for it.

cjd · May 17, 2009

Is the good and bad broadband provided by the same service provider?

maxine · May 17, 2009

Thanks KM. My thinking behind not putting the VOIP onto one provider was that if that internet connection goes down then at least the other should work.

One is BT business (good) and the other is Talk Talk (not so good)

Both of them have said that I cannot get an upgrade because of how far I am from the exchange.

I guess it will be trial and error but to minimise the faffing about setting it up I would like to have a think about it first.

Even if it is OK for inbound and data I might not get away with having outbound voip calls and will then have to use mobiles.

KM-Tiger · May 17, 2009

maxine said:
.... to minimise the faffing about setting it up I would like to have a think about it first.

Wise.

Just to throw another idea into the mix: you can now get routers which use a USB 3G dongle as a backup internet access device. You can set them either to share the load or fail over to the 3G if the normal broadband goes off. They can do that seamlessly.

If you are dependent on your internet access to the online CRM to do business, this might be worth considering. Things can happen and my normally excellent ADSL was off for 4 days not so long ago when that cable was cut through in East London. If I had not had access via 3G I would have been in some difficulty.

cjd · May 17, 2009

maxine said:
I guess it will be trial and error but to minimise the faffing about setting it up I would like to have a think about it first.

If you want to have a chat through the options call us on 020 7043 5555 - they're all geeks, not sales people so they won't be trying to sell you anything.

(Well one of them might because he fancies himself as a sales guy but it's strictly amateur hour; you won't have a problem brushing him off.)

djwellis · May 17, 2009

An immediate thought occurs.

You can get routers that not only load-balance (2 internet lines for your network), but provide a service known as QoS.

Therefore.... VoIP packets are prioritised over regular ones and therefore, if you are on the telephone, you won't experience lower call quality when on the internet.

Give me a prod if you need any words of wisdom - my main area of expertise is networking.

Additionally, just read a comment above by FM-Tiger... The 3G dongle backup also works with the load balancing router I mentioned above. Made by a company called Draytek

KM-Tiger · May 17, 2009

djwellis said:
... The 3G dongle backup also works with the load balancing router I mentioned above. Made by a company called Draytek

It was the Draytek I was thinking of, though I believe there are others. Billion?

This is going OT a bit, but what you point out is important. I see a pattern of business becoming more and more reliant on their internet connections to function - eg SaaS and other online services - but with no SLA on any broadband connections then the only defence is redundancy.

Wiser businesses are starting to twig this and planning accordingly.

cjd · May 17, 2009

KM-Tiger said:
It was the Draytek I was thinking of, though I believe there are others.

We haven't liked the Drayteks, they did funny things with SIP, but we're trialling their new 28xx (I need to check the model number with the engineers tomorrow). It load balances and has QoS and deals with SIP properly too. Well so far at least.

As far as redundancy goes; you get more with VoIP than is possible with POTS - if a JCB rips out your cable in the street, send your people home with their phones. When they plug them into their home network they continue as though they were in the office.

But generally I agree, DSL needs to get better. I can't see that happening until they stop selling it cheap or calling it free.

estwig · May 17, 2009

cjd said:
If you want to have a chat through the options call us on 020 7043 5555 - they're all geeks, not sales people so they won't be trying to sell you anything.

(Well one of them might because he fancies himself as a sales guy but it's strictly amateur hour; you won't have a problem brushing him off.)

Talk to Sean @ voipfone, top fella, never mind Colin he's just a front man, Sean really is a top fella.

Me is on a mission to get Sean a bonus!!!

KM-Tiger · May 18, 2009

cjd said:
We haven't liked the Drayteks, they did funny things with SIP, but we're trialling their new 28xx (I need to check the model number with the engineers tomorrow). It load balances and has QoS and deals with SIP properly too. Well so far at least.

I'd be interested to hear the results of any tests. I've got 4 voipfone extensions through a 2820, but I've not yet had to put QOS in place.

It was the 26xxV Drayteks that were problematical. They wanted to capture SIP traffic for themselves even when you didn't want them to. Can't remember the workaround but I did find one in the end.

CrispyUK · May 18, 2009

I've generally heard pretty good things about the DrayTek routers - they seem to be quite well regarded - would be interested to hear the results of your testing with the 28xx models Colin as might be looking to install one of these for a client as part of a VoIP solution in the summer.

Also wanted to point out a couple of observations from when I last looked at them...I think they can only load-balance/failover between 2x ADSL connections OR an ADSL connection & 3G dongle - not all three.

Also they only contain a single ADSL modem, the second WAN connection is just an Ethernet connection so an external modem would be required to support 2x ADSL links.

KM-Tiger · May 18, 2009

CrispyUK said:
Also wanted to point out a couple of observations from when I last looked at them...I think they can only load-balance/failover between 2x ADSL connections OR an ADSL connection & 3G dongle - not all three.

Also they only contain a single ADSL modem, the second WAN connection is just an Ethernet connection so an external modem would be required to support 2x ADSL links.

Correct.

(padding)

cjd · May 18, 2009

The Draytek being tested at the moment is 2820n - it's working well. QoS not tested yet.

djwellis · May 18, 2009

CrispyUK said:
Also wanted to point out a couple of observations from when I last looked at them...I think they can only load-balance/failover between 2x ADSL connections OR an ADSL connection & 3G dongle - not all three.

Also they only contain a single ADSL modem, the second WAN connection is just an Ethernet connection so an external modem would be required to support 2x ADSL links.

What we do is have a pair of 2820n routers.

Both have ADSL ports connected to the internet. Router#1 has the 3G Dongle and the Router#2 has Router#1 plugged into it's WAN2 port.

Both lines are AnnexM (ADSL2+) lines, which means that for about £100ish a month, we get not only a stupidly-resilient connection, but upload of about 3-4Mb.

I just wish that Draytek had some form of reseller programme, because our supplier doesn't offer us any thanks no matter how many we buy... whereas last Christmas, AVG Anti-virus sent us choccies!

maxine · May 18, 2009

estwig said:
Talk to Sean @ voipfone, top fella, never mind Colin he's just a front man, Sean really is a top fella.

Me is on a mission to get Sean a bonus!!!

I s/w Sean the other day - lovely chappy

Helped me a bit kind of but I had to refer to the manufacturers but still he helped point me in the right direction.

... I shall ask him if he can translate this thread for me

The load balancing thingies sound pretty cool

KM-Tiger · May 18, 2009

djwellis said:
What we do is have a pair of 2820n routers.

Both have ADSL ports connected to the internet. Router#1 has the 3G Dongle and the Router#2 has Router#1 plugged into it's WAN2 port.

Both lines are AnnexM (ADSL2+) lines, which means that for about £100ish a month, we get not only a stupidly-resilient connection, but upload of about 3-4Mb.

Never thought of doing that, it's a clever idea, so thanks for the pointer.

To allude to another thread: perhaps my idea of running a web hosting company from my garage is not such a crazy idea!

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computer set up... advice for office at home 6 stations?