How do i market something without it sounding a bit like a con!??

c4l · May 3, 2009

Hi everyone,

I've got a query and im hoping some folks on here can help.

Basically, with the credit crunch, the whole construction industry has shifted, none more so that the area that i work in. So, i've had to make a few changes to the way i operate and the people i work for.

I've kept my existing clients, but have to attract new - and to do so, need a new way of working.

So i've come up with a system, and have trialled it a few times, mainly FREE OF CHARGE, to people who can see that it works, and have the proof so.

The system is one whereby i work with domestic home-owners and selfbuilders, rather than large commercial companies.

My selling point is that by paying me a few hundred pounds, i can literally save thousands!

But that's the problem. Read the above. If you saw that on an advert - would you buy it? I didn't think so.

I've considered working a system whereby the customer pays a couple of hundred up front, and then the rest IF the system works.

But i don't know what to do!

I recently worked on a project for a guy in North Yorkshire, and saved him £32k on a project he was having carried out at his place. Now, i did the work here, and trusted him, and he did pay, with a nice bonus too! But, what's to say i do the work, and my work won't necessarily save them money. At the end of the day, i've put my professional skills to their full use, and have expended my time but external forces are stopping them from working fully. How do i market this system to people and basically tell them that pretty much that my system MIGHT cost save them money, but they HAVE to pay me??

any help as ever, greatly appreciated.

davidshaw89 · May 3, 2009

Hi Simon,

Are you a Quantity Surveyor/Cost consultant?

I am in my second year of studying QS at uni - and just about to go on placement (for the second summer in a row) with a rather large and reputable cost consultancy partnership.

There is not enough cost management services available to individuals for domestic work as it is generally too expensive! So I find this quite exciting that you have thought to offer cost management services to small private construction projects.

Having insight into the sort of time taken from project to project, and the costs involved (labour) how can you justify serving the private sector?

I would be very interested to hear from you about your plans

As for marketing ideas:

get some testimonials from the people you have successfully worked for. Then offer your services on a "percentage of savings" basis, with some sort of refundable security deposit so they don't run away with your ideas.

The Dreaded Lurgy · May 4, 2009

I would say dont try and sell a system that sounds scammy but sell yourself, you as a person with great expertise, contacts and lots of experience have already been saving people thousands of pounds by making sure that things run as smoothly as possible and know where to source the cheapest materials and which companies are reliable to buy from.

And stick real life people who have liked your service on your website with smily photos and a little testimonial.

MH1 · May 4, 2009

Why not offer to work at a low fixed price to cover your basic costs, plus a percentage of the savings as a commission?

I used to sell telephone calls years ago, and found I had more success charging a fee plus receiving the monthly call commission I got from the telephone companies, than doing it for free as most did, since many people in business expect to pay for a service.

Either way, you will struggle to sell anything you do not feel comfortable with, so find a way to sell it that you feel good about.

adam · May 4, 2009

All good ideas and you are right, while some marketeers bang on about shouting from the roof tops with free this and free that, all I can think of it Cilit Bang and that window company (might be local to the "Eastern Region") with that silly guy dressed up shouting "you buy one you get one free".

Now I may remember these slogans but I stay well clear of them! Although I do buy that particualr brand of cleaner, I am scared to admit it to people in case they say "Bang, and the dirt is gone".

LowcostPR · May 4, 2009

Firstly, get as many testimonials as you can to show that people are indeed happy with what you're doing.

Secondly, I'd seriously consider editorial. As you rightly say, the problem is people won't believe you when you say you will save them money. When it is written in a newspaper/trade publication/magazine, then it has a "third party endorsement" that will give far more reassurance to your clientele than you could on your own.

Keep up the advertising, but without getting any press coverage to reinforce your message then you will not find your marketing as effective as you would like in this area.

directmarketingadvice · May 4, 2009

c4l said:
I've considered working a system whereby the customer pays a couple of hundred up front, and then the rest IF the system works.

So, you get paid £200 for doing something that hasn't helped them?

But, what's to say i do the work, and my work won't necessarily save them money. At the end of the day, i've put my professional skills to their full use, and have expended my time but external forces are stopping them from working fully.

What external forces?

And, why would "external forces" affect those clients and not others?

How do i market this system to people and basically tell them that pretty much that my system MIGHT cost save them money, but they HAVE to pay me??

Isn't that what most service businesses do?

The answer is "with a lot of proof".

However, you should ask yourself why you're not offering a 100% guarantee for this. It seems a logical fit for the offer.

Steve

c4l · May 4, 2009

SteveGibson said:
So, you get paid £200 for doing something that hasn't helped them?

What external forces?

And, why would "external forces" affect those clients and not others?

Isn't that what most service businesses do?

The answer is "with a lot of proof".

However, you should ask yourself why you're not offering a 100% guarantee for this. It seems a logical fit for the offer.

Steve

Thanks for all the responses. Plenty of positives there to keep me thinking.

SteveGibson - yes, i'd be looking to get paid for work that hasn't helped them. That's the key issue here. All relates to the external forces too.

Basically, i take their house plans, draw up a list of quantities, and then consult with builders to get prices. I find that with the quantities, i often get back a better price than a builder simply working to a rough price per sq ft.

For example - the external force may be that a builder has quoted the client direct £40k for an extension, and i've spent time and effort working out the quantities and have spoken to reputable builder businesses in the area and may have prices of say £42k and £45k. So, all my effort hasn't saved the customer money after all. It may be that the first builder has underpriced and will look for more as 'extras'.

I've not encountered this really yet but have been very close. I just don't want to put a days work into it without the guarantee of money or good business.

One option i suppose may be a fixed price of say £150 - which is a good amount less than say an architect would charge for their service typically, and is a small cost in the grand scheme of things, particularly in the 'fees' area of the project - and then say 10% of anything saved. So, say a £5k saving on a £50k project may earn me £150+£500 - a good fee for the work done.

eventdomain · May 4, 2009

However, you should ask yourself why you're not offering a 100% guarantee for this. It seems a logical fit for the offer.

Bcos this guy actually does physical work/effort, not some cheap sales page with a dodgy money-back promise if the tips dont work.

If c4l's acting as a sort of broker for clients, then he's entitled to payment for his services.

c4l · May 4, 2009

davidshaw89 said:
Hi Simon,

Are you a Quantity Surveyor/Cost consultant?

I am in my second year of studying QS at uni - and just about to go on placement (for the second summer in a row) with a rather large and reputable cost consultancy partnership.

There is not enough cost management services available to individuals for domestic work as it is generally too expensive! So I find this quite exciting that you have thought to offer cost management services to small private construction projects.

Having insight into the sort of time taken from project to project, and the costs involved (labour) how can you justify serving the private sector?

I would be very interested to hear from you about your plans

As for marketing ideas:

get some testimonials from the people you have successfully worked for. Then offer your services on a "percentage of savings" basis, with some sort of refundable security deposit so they don't run away with your ideas.

Hi David,

Yes, im a QS.

With respect, not sure what you mean about 'how can you justify it'? As you say, there's very little in that area of the market. Why should a council pay a PQS company a good fee to manage say a £50k road alterations scheme, or a big corporate firm pay a PQS £3-4k fees for a £100k shopfit project, and then a domestic customer do a £50k extension without any advice.

It's an untouced area, not entirely, it's just the costs charged are prohibative for a lot of customer at proper PQS rates. So, to be able to undercut these PQS's with very little in terms of overhead is the way forward. Also, i don't need to draw up preambles, clauses etc as a PQS would as i specify that it's a 'basic' service that does what it says on the tin without much extra unless required!

directmarketingadvice · May 4, 2009

eventdomain said:
Bcos this guy actually does physical work/effort

What's that got to do with it?

The clients are paying in the hope that they'll get a result.

If he were to say "if I don't get you the result, I don't deserve to get paid", they'd have more confidence in his offer.

If c4l's acting as a sort of broker for clients, then he's entitled to payment for his services.

If that's the deal.

However, the prospects are entitled to refuse to do a deal on those terms and walk away.

And, isn't that the concern the OP has?

Steve

Chris Kaday · May 4, 2009

I cant see why cost saving should be viewed as a con Steve if you can justify why you are cheaper and have case study to prove it. I have a couple of clients who major on cost saving one has been saving cost for 12 years and has never had a client where they havent so on my advice we now offer a guarantee or fee returned. Another has saved costs (40% on lat contract) and says could result in a cost saving. Neither looks spivvy and both like you have been in business for some time. Happy to critique your proposition if it helps Sorry if I am missing the point
Chris Kaday

c4l · May 4, 2009

Again all, thanks for the good responses.

I think what i need to consider is - 9.5 times out of 10, i do save people money. That small occurence where i don't, could be the one where i give any fees back - unless i work as described, to some form of sliding scale with a % of money saved as payment, not payable if nothing saved (yet, certainly not payable the other way!). I'd have to make things transparent, so as to ensure that im not doing work and customers are conning me out of my time and energies, to get a job done for nothing, by stating that they have cheaper quotes elsewhere.

eventdomain · May 4, 2009

What's that got to do with it?

You're on some sort of wind up hehe

The clients are paying in the hope that they'll get a result.

No way do I buy/pay out, on 'the hope' that a result might happen, and I don't believe anyone else does either. Websites can be checked for credibility, former clients can be contacted before agreeing the service. So..... in other words, if one expects to be paid, they better deliver something good or clients won't trust ever again.

If he were to say "if I don't get you the result, I don't deserve to get paid", they'd have more confidence in his offer.

If a business has a strong reputation, then it wouldn't have to use cheap sales tactics to capture the customer. but I take it you mean that a guarantee will clinch a payment. For example: You cannot force me to pay you, if I see you as a scam - then you are a scammer.

1. Nobody gives something so great for free
2. Everything costs

However, the prospects are entitled to refuse to do a deal on those terms and walk away.

Such as life. But trust is the problem here and many can't be trusted. But then its upto the paying customer isnt it and no amount of guarantees will change anything. It's the 'too good to be true' thing - and if something sounds too good, then its not true and likely a scam (in the buyers mind).

directmarketingadvice · May 4, 2009

eventdomain said:
But then its upto the paying customer isnt it and no amount of guarantees will change anything.

I have no idea what you're basing that on, but I know it's not based on proper testing.

Risk-reversal guarantees increase conversion/response/closing rates.

Steve

c4l · May 4, 2009

SteveGibson said:
Risk-reversal guarantees increase conversion/response/closing rates.

Steve

Definately an option - i.e. throw the risk back to me. In that if the client's gone out there and found a super-cheap builder (be it a poor job or not!), well that'll be my services FOC. The majority of the time, through experience i can save money for the customer - one in say ten perhaps i can't. So, for every 10 jobs i'd do, i'd get paid a decent fee on 9 of them, and the other would be on the house. I might trial this and see how it goes.

directmarketingadvice · May 5, 2009

c4l said:
So, for every 10 jobs i'd do, i'd get paid a decent fee on 9 of them, and the other would be on the house.

Exactly. Factor in a refund rate.

And, with the risk reversal, you'll probably be saving money on marketing - a higher response rate means you don't need to do as much advertising + you'll get more referrals.

Steve

eventdomain · May 5, 2009

I have no idea what you're basing that on, but I know it's not based on proper testing.

Okay, this is wind up right, a joke - bcos I cant explain it in a simpler way.

Ok, I'm talking about coercing, to force against someone's will. No guarantee on this earth can make any website visitor opt for something they don't want to.

Testing has nothing to do with it bcos its about personal choice and trust, knowledge of the seller, before it even gets to a testing stage. Buyers go through a decision making process, and no guarantee can come before that process in the customer's mind - its impossible. People just do not see the word 'Guarantee' and then consider it a done deal.

By the way, to test something, usually means it has to be purchased first. So you expect people to just whip out the credit card, without a clue, to see if these services work or not. Good luck.

I spent 10 years in sales, doing recruitment, retail and telesales - and not once did I ever see a product or service with some crappy guarantee stamped all over it, nor told I had to offer it when cold calling.

Its only dodgy, pointless services that resort to this kind of selling. I had a sales call the other day, the sales guy/company couldn't even target properly, never mind conduct the call professionally. So I laugh at this Arthur Daley sales style - its crap.

Jeremy King · May 5, 2009

The point of a risk reversal is that most 'decent' businesses will give you the money back anyway if they don't provide the desired result. If the dry cleaner doesn't remove the stain then you don't pay. If the food was cold or inedible then you don't pay... etc etc

As for cheap stunts - which guarantee would you consider cheap - Domino's Pizza 30 minute delivery or your money back? Kwik Fit tyres 100% customer delight guarantee also ran quite well!

Take anything back to Tesco's, M&S, ASDA etc and it is replaced or refunded almost without question. In a large brand this guarantee is part of the trust element created over years of great communications. If you are just building your business / brand then you need to state the guarantee overtly rather than just imply it.

You have to assume most people are reasonable and if you have done a good job they won't ask for their money back. If you are reasonable and you have a client for whom it just doesn't work out (you know the ones we all have them!) then you either refund their money or you conduct a free audit before deciding whether or not you can help them - if you can't help then you don't take the money.

The 'clever' bit is just stating what is implied in most other contracts. OK clever may not be the right word but Steve's right - it works.

directmarketingadvice · May 5, 2009

eventdomain said:
Okay, this is wind up right, a joke - bcos I cant explain it in a simpler way.

Spare me the "I cant explain it in a simpler way" stuff.

I understand what you're saying. I also understand that you've not tested this.

If you had, you'd know you're wrong.

No guarantee on this earth can make any website visitor opt for something they don't want to.

No-one said it would.

A risk-reversal guarantee deals with the questions "will this work for me?" and "will I buy this and end up regretting it?".

It says:

"We're able to save money for 90% of people, but not for everyone.

We don't believe you should pay for a service that hasn't benefitted you so, if you turn out to be in the 10% of people we can't help, we won't charge you a penny."

What's dodgy about that?

Why is it less honorable than saying:

"We're able to save money for 90% of people, but not for everyone.

If you turn out to be in the 10% of people we can't help, then you still have to pay us."

Testing has nothing to do with it bcos its about personal choice and trust

No, testing has everything to do with it.

Because you've not tested this, you think it doesn't work.

Because I have, I know it does.

That's why testing is important. It shows what works.

Steve

directmarketingadvice · May 5, 2009

Jeremy King said:
Take anything back to Tesco's, M&S, ASDA etc and it is replaced or refunded almost without question.

M&S are a classic example.

If you buy an Xmas present there, it can be returned if the person doesn't like it.

Would people buy presents there if that guarantee didn't exist?

No way.

But, no-one (except maybe eventdomain) is saying Marks are a dodgy company because they have that guarantee.

Most of us just think they're being fair by removing the risk.

Steve

eventdomain · May 5, 2009

@ Jeremy King

If the dry cleaner doesn't remove the stain then you don't pay.

Well that isn't actually a guarantee, more like failure due to either incompetence or beyond expertise/control. Refunds/Exchanges are the final solution for keeping the customer happy and hopefully retaining their custom. But its also failure by the company to not fulfil product/service quality, rather than guarantee of a result. See with a refund, customer is back to where they started at eg: No Product/Service, and company lose that sale. So in the case of a refund, there was no guarantee, bcos product/service already failed, hence the refund. So guarantees aren't necessary as the law comes into effect under the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

No such things as Guarantees in Retail I'm afraid. I wouldn't class Pizza delivery as Retail, bcos its delivery of food, so a service - but not retail as its not sold in branches/department stores - it gets delivered, so a different process - but still covered under the Sale of Goods Act eg: Fit for consumpton, but the delivery of pizza is different to say selling in a store, so a goodwill gesture is offered. But I dont think the guarantee sells the pizzas here - more like the quality of them is the key!

Point is many services just dont need guarantees, as UK law protects the consumer just fine.

If the food was cold or inedible then you don't pay... etc etc

goes without saying if you serve crap or kill someone with food poisoning, then expect a bad reputation. Again, having a guarantee like "We faithfully promise not to poison you with our food - if we do, you are entitled to a full refund"

Kind of stupid yes.... Again no point of stupid guarantees.

eventdomain · May 5, 2009

M&S are a classic example.

If you buy an Xmas present there, it can be returned if the person doesn't like it.

Would people buy presents there if that guarantee didn't exist?

No way.

Partly agree with you, as Argos offer a similar thing with their '16 Day return policy'

But as their goods are so good, then the faith is already present without the need for any guarantee. Also as Retail goods are covered by the Sale of Goods Act, any guarantee placed is just 'salad dressing' - might taste nice - but doesn't actually add very much to the experience/product. But do people really buy because of 'Guarantees', I say No, and that the buying decision is made bcos of something else and way before any mention of guarantees.

But I will say this - as Argos is a established major brand, and the trust is already present, so I automatically trust them over some idiot selling say PPC or Copywriting on the web, and my decision has nothing to do with guarantees....

Argos wont rip you off, they have too much at stake, reputation, can't afford to be bad mouthed etc. But the sole trader web guy, hiding behind some pixels, can just make a load of cash and shut down next week, never to be seen again. And thats why guarantees mean nothing on the web and are unnecessary. It's like me saying "I sell pencils, and I guarantee to sharpen them for you before you buy" - yeah, but if you're selling them, shouldn't they be sharp already?

Trying to fool people into thinking their getting something great, when little is provided, just insults rather than impresses.

MH1 · May 5, 2009

Trying to fool people into thinking their getting something great, when little is provided, just insults rather than impresses.

Yet all the major brands do offer such guarantees, so they see the benefit, otherwise they would not bother.

I understand the point you are trying to make, badly, but put simply, these guarantees offer the clients a modicum of peace of mind, the fact that they are worthless many times is neither here or there, it does help people justify their purchasing decision at times.

Some people will not be swayed, I for instance hate the word "free" in adverts, since we all appreciate there is no such thing in the real world, but as a marketing tool, it works very well for most clients.

directmarketingadvice · May 5, 2009

eventdomain said:
Trying to fool people into thinking their getting something great, when little is provided, just insults rather than impresses.

What on earth does that have to do with offering guarantees?

If anything, it's the people that don't have the guarantee that are more likely to disappoint. Those that offer the guarantee can't afford to.

I've written copy which had guarantees like:

"If we can't save you at least £x, we'll give you £50 cash and an apology"

and

"If you can find the same item cheaper elsewhere, we'll pay you the difference plus 10%"

i.e. "put our money where our mouths are, better than 100%" guarantees.

And these were real guarantees, they weren't bull****.

And they worked because they took away risk and gave confidence to prospects.

Steve

Jeremy King · May 6, 2009

Eventdomain - Many retailers would argue it is all about the 'salad dressing', you can buy the same products in Argos as you can in John Lewis - not always but you get my point (I hope). Guarantees are a point of difference, a sales tool, which if used well can generate substantial returns. Are they sufficient on their own, generally not thats where testimonials and PR come in - more tools. Are there unscrupulous people offering guarantees, absolutely but unscrupulous people also have websites - should we not use those either?

MH1 - I agree on the Free point, like cheap it is a poor word and as I understand will generally be frowned upon by spam filters - and even human recipients! There are better words and better propositions but right now the importance of highlighting value cannot be overstated.

Jeremy King · May 6, 2009

This months edition of The Marketer - the official publication of the CIM has a feature on Match.com and their "unique to their sector - Love Guarantee"

I had to laugh ...

directmarketingadvice · May 6, 2009

Jeremy King said:
This months edition of The Marketer - the official publication of the CIM has a feature on Match.com and their "unique to their sector - Love Guarantee"

When I see their ad, I always think the guarantee is really poor:

"If you waste 6 months on our site and get nowhere, we'll let you waste another 6 months for free...."

'Triffic.

But, maybe that's just me. Maybe it's persuasive to a lot of people.

Steve

Mark Pocock · May 6, 2009

Agree with Steve. They've written
their guarantee very poorly.

"If you waste 6 months on our site and get nowhere, we'll let you waste another 6 months for free...."

Mark Pocock · May 6, 2009

The original poster's biggest problem is
this:

Their client still stands to lose £200. So why should
they risk doing business with you? They could be
out of pocket.

You need to make your proposition a
no-brainer.

So somebody has to be brain dead to
not do business with you.

ie

"I'm so confident I can save you £X I'll pay
you £X from my own pocket if I don't save you
£000's.

Why would I do this?

Good question.

That's because...."

And then go into the reasons why....

cheers

Mark

c4l · May 8, 2009

Thanks for the answers.

Good points there Mark.

I'd be happy to do the work for free but i wouldn't look to give money back if i don't save money. I'm confident, really i am, but i believe there are folks out there with friends in the trade who would happily take advantage of a situation like this. Maybe im getting cynical with age!

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How do i market something without it sounding a bit like a con!??

c4l

davidshaw89

The Dreaded Lurgy

MH1

adam

LowcostPR

directmarketingadvice

c4l

eventdomain

c4l

directmarketingadvice

Chris Kaday

c4l

eventdomain

directmarketingadvice

c4l

directmarketingadvice

eventdomain

Jeremy King

directmarketingadvice

directmarketingadvice

eventdomain

eventdomain

MH1

directmarketingadvice

Jeremy King

Jeremy King

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Mark Pocock

Mark Pocock

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