website point of view and how to get page 1

h14ate · Apr 26, 2009

i started a business in november 08 and i was advertising uing adwords but they just took me for all my profit
so what i have done is build 22 web sites to cover all areas and different subjects all to do with plumbing but please bearing in mind i am self taught and build my first site 2 months ago so i dont expect them to be very proffesional compaired to most sites
if someone can have a look at my site and advise me how to get page 1 as i havent got a stack of cash to give to seo companies at the present time as work is very slow and i am on tescos branded food at the min lol
most of my sites are listed on the links page if anyone would like to take a look and dont be to critical please lol
should i find a cheap link builder and work on one site at a time

24 hour pro . com one word i cant put the url in for some reason

david64 · Apr 26, 2009

I am not sure what your site is. If you added a link to your site it looks like it has been removed. I believe you need to pay for full membership heere before you can ask for reviews.

Personally, I don't like the sound of 22 sites. I would look at doing one site, get it to rank and then look at more sites.

What sort of terms do you want to rank for? Just "plumbing" or "plumber in my town"? If you want to rank for geographic terms ad your self to the Google Local Search as this should get you some traffic without having to do any link building.

driansmith · Apr 26, 2009

david64 said:
Personally, I don't like the sound of 22 sites. I would look at doing one site, get it to rank and then look at more sites.

What sort of terms do you want to rank for? Just "plumbing" or "plumber in my town"? If you want to rank for geographic terms ad your self to the Google Local Search as this should get you some traffic without having to do any link building.

I agree David. Your business only needs a single website I would suggest. If the effort was put into marketing this one rather than developing 21 other websites you would probably be on the front page soon!

I agree with David again - Google Local.

Apr 26, 2009

driansmith said:
I agree David. Your business only needs a single website I would suggest. If the effort was put into marketing this one rather than developing 21 other websites you would probably be on the front page soon!

I agree with David again - Google Local.

You cannot be serious ,if the guy is geo targeting ,or specific product orientated,this would be a standard procedure.

Earl

driansmith · Apr 26, 2009

Sorry earl - I am not sure I understand your reply.

He is a plumber which means his business is almost certainly very 'local' in nature.

I would recommend any small business to adhere to a single site. Cheaper and more likely to generate better rankings.

Apr 26, 2009

driansmith said:
Sorry earl - I am not sure I understand your reply.

He is a plumber which means his business is almost certainly very 'local' in nature.

I would recommend any small business to adhere to a single site. Cheaper and more likely to generate better rankings.

Well if you want to get a good ranking for various geo locations or specific areas of your business,having several sites with keyword rich domains is a sure fire way to get your foot in the door,since google has decided that domain names are so very important.
Which by the way makes a total joke of there beloved page rank algo.

Earl

driansmith · Apr 26, 2009

sirearl said:
Well if you want to get a good ranking for various geo locations or specific areas of your business,having several sites with keyword rich domains is a sure fire way to get your foot in the door,since google has decided that domain names are so very important.

Earl

I am sorry Earl but I would not agree. Given that there are over 200 factors that are taken into account to produce a ranking, this is but one (and small) factor. It is estimated that maybe over 50% of the factors are in fact 'linking' factors. Trying to acquire links to a single site is not easy - but attempting to do it for a multitude of sites is almost impossible for the average small business owner.
So, 'stick to one good quality, content-rich site and go get them links' would be my advice.

Apr 26, 2009

driansmith said:
I am sorry Earl but I would not agree. Given that there are over 200 factors that are taken into account to produce a ranking, this is but one (and small) factor. It is estimated that maybe over 50% of the factors are in fact 'linking' factors. Trying to acquire links to a single site is not easy - but attempting to do it for a multitude of sites is almost impossible for the average small business owner.
So, 'stick to one good quality, content-rich site and go get them links' would be my advice.

look at the domains on our top 4 results ,domain names have become a very important factor in the lesser competitive arena.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=se...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Earl

driansmith · Apr 26, 2009

Many websites do very well when the domain name (and company name!!) use their important keywords - agreed.

But my view is that it is because of the HUGELY beneficial linking that then happens as a consequence. Because the link backs also contain the very same keywords.
A link to your site is great, a link to your site using an important keyword is 3 times greater.

Apr 26, 2009

driansmith said:
Many websites do very well when the domain name (and company name!!) use their important keywords - agreed.

But my view is that it is because of the HUGELY beneficial linking that then happens as a consequence. Because the link backs also contain the very same keywords.
A link to your site is great, a link to your site using an important keyword is 3 times greater.

I think if you look at a couple of our sites links you will find that is not necessarily True.

As I said google is giving far to much importance to domain names.

If you look at your own site you can see that it ranks No1 for your domain name but nowhere for your targeted keywords,

Earl

david64 · Apr 26, 2009

I'd agree with you both. Having the exact keywords in the domain is a big help, but as Drian points out, if you have the exact keywords, chances are you will be linked to with those keywords. Exact keywords in domain is pretty spammy though. I would more likely trust searchlogic.com than cheapseolondon.com

h14ate · Apr 26, 2009

i cover a large area and i intend my business to grow and my aim is to take on staff to cover all the work

one site will not cover enough area so i have broken advertising into areas

for instance

area morden i have plumbermorden.com
area carshalton i have plumbercarshalton.com
and so on

and each site has assigned keywords specific to that area
on top of that i have boiler sites and powerflushing sites

some areas are in more demand than others hence i need links to help them

Apr 26, 2009

h14ate said:
i cover a large area and i intend my business to grow and my aim is to take on staff to cover all the work

one site will not cover enough area so i have broken advertising into areas

for instance

area morden i have plumbermorden.com
area carshalton i have plumbercarshalton.com
and so on

and each site has assigned keywords specific to that area
on top of that i have boiler sites and powerflushing sites

some areas are in more demand than others hence i need links to help them

Looks like a good strategy to me.

Not sure anyone looks for "power flushing " though.

Earl

david64 · Apr 26, 2009

You might want to check if these terms are likely to bring more than one hit a year. You can check using this tool:

https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal

Seems to me theses are not trafficed terms.

If, I were you I would just have the one site and come up with really high quality content for each of the areas you cover, e.g. some pluming stats for each town and create a page for each town. Then you can just create one site.

h14ate · Apr 26, 2009

each site has keywords checked by google keyword tool for max exposure and i have one main site as well which will have around 50 pages when finished and is a page rank 1 and i hope to get it to rank 3

Apr 26, 2009

h14ate said:
each site has keywords checked by google keyword tool for max exposure and i have one main site as well which will have around 50 pages when finished and is a page rank 1 and i hope to get it to rank 3

I would not worry about page rank.More important to get links from relevant sites.

My experience of googles adwords keyword tool is that it is not a very accurate indicator of the true state of play.

Earl

h14ate · Apr 26, 2009

i have tried linking myself but it drives me mad i would rather be out plumbing instead
and when you have all those sites to do its soul destroying i just need to find someone for a one of fee get me 100 links on each one
i have someone building my main site he will do linking for £200 per site and that is per 100 links

Apr 26, 2009

h14ate said:
i have tried linking myself but it drives me mad i would rather be out plumbing instead
and when you have all those sites to do its soul destroying i just need to find someone for a one of fee get me 100 links on each one
i have someone building my main site he will do linking for £200 per site and that is per 100 links

Its the quality of the links thats important not the quantity.

One Gov link is worth 1,000's of more ordinary links.

Earl

h14ate · Apr 26, 2009

my mate works for the foreign office maybe i can get one from there but i thought it had to be related to your trade

david64 · Apr 26, 2009

Yeah the Google AdWords tool is never going to give you the right figure, but you have to remember a lot of people have software/scripts to check their rankings, then people are manually checking their rankings. Also, the figure also includes things other than Google search. It also includes things like Google Custom Search, which are often used to search specific sites.

The tool is meant to be for AdWords and AdWords has a wider scope than just Google search.

@[FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,arial]h14ate[/FONT] with the sort of terms you are going after, you should be able to get some results with those 100 links. There doesn't seem to be anyone realy going after the terms with avangage.

What are you doing for the content of the sites? Are you aware that using the same or very similar content will probably cause you serrious trouble in rankings?

Plus, if all the site look the same, people might report you to Google for attempting to monopolise the SERPs. Google probably won't take action, but you never know.

DotNetWebs · Apr 26, 2009

h14ate said:
...i thought it had to be related to your trade

How would Google know that the link is 'relevant' to your trade? ANY .gov link is a good link.

Regards

Dotty

h14ate · Apr 26, 2009

all my sites are different and maybe only two are the same but have different areas and keywords

h14ate · Apr 26, 2009

i think google checks to see if the site is relavant and i think it has to spot the keyword say plumbing within a certain number of words

Apr 26, 2009

david64 said:
Plus, if all the site look the same, people might report you to Google for attempting to monopolise the SERPs..

Thats exactly the name of the game.

Earl

h14ate · Apr 26, 2009

if my sites cover all different areas how is that spamming unless of course i pointed four sites at one area lol

fisicx · Apr 27, 2009

sirearl said:
As I said google is giving far to much importance to domain names.

Do you have any empirical evidence of this?

I'm not suggesteing that the domain name isn't a ranking factor but I'm yet to be convinced that it is important. It's far more likley that a generic domain with the location in the page title will rank higher than a location specifc domain without the location in the page title.

Apr 27, 2009

fisicx said:
Do you have any empirical evidence of this?

I'm not suggesteing that the domain name isn't a ranking factor but I'm yet to be convinced that it is important. It's far more likley that a generic domain with the location in the page title will rank higher than a location specifc domain without the location in the page title.

Many thousands of examples on google.

just look how flimsey our No1 and No3 sites are in this example.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=se...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

even in high competition areas its rare to not find the product keyword in the domain.

Earl

fisicx · Apr 27, 2009

sirearl said:
Many thousands of examples on google.

...even in high competition areas its rare to not find the product keyword in the domain.

But in the example you gave the keywords are in the page title, it doesn't provide any evidence that google gives the domain name any precedence over other ranking elements. And the fact that the #2 result doesn't even have 'seedoo parts' in the domain name sorts of backs this up.

Note: just because Google highlights the keywords in the domain name doesn't mean they are important. It does the same in the meta description and we all know that's NOT a ranking signal.

Apr 27, 2009

fisicx said:
But in the example you gave the keywords are in the page title, it doesn't provide any evidence that google gives the domain name any precedence over other ranking elements. And the fact that the #2 result doesn't even have 'seedoo parts' in the domain name sorts of backs this up.

Note: just because Google highlights the keywords in the domain name doesn't mean they are important. It does the same in the meta description and we all know that's NOT a ranking signal.

Our No2 site has age , authority and the busiest jet ski site in the UK and yet can't beat the flimsey offering above it.

"and we all know that's NOT a ranking signal."

Who's WE.?

Earl

fisicx · Apr 27, 2009

sirearl said:
"and we all know that's NOT a ranking signal."

Who's WE.?

Anyone who has done any testing and read the umpteen other sources on the meta description. There is not one single piece of evidence that the meta description is a ranking signal but loads of evidence that it isn't.

thejetworks.co.uk has 'jet ski parts' as the first three words in the page title.

seadooparts.co.uk has 'sea doo parts' as the first three words in the page title.

That's going to have more effect than the domain name.

Apr 27, 2009

fisicx said:
Anyone who has done any testing and read the umpteen other sources on the meta description. There is not one single piece of evidence that the meta description is a ranking signal but loads of evidence that it isn't.

thejetworks.co.uk has 'jet ski parts' as the first three words in the page title.

seadooparts.co.uk has 'sea doo parts' as the first three words in the page title.

That's going to have more effect than the domain name.

well what about these few site that are much more able than our slight offering.?:|

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q="s...g.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=SOi&start=10&sa=N

P.S I was here before the We's

Earl

fisicx · Apr 27, 2009

Dunno Earl. Sometimes google just finds something on the page it likes and leapfrogs you up the results. I just don't think having the keywords in the domain name is going to be the trigger. Apart from one very isolated incidence that someone on the forum demonstated I've never yet seen any report that the domain name is an important ranking signal. not saying it isn't a ranking signal but it's more likey to be closer to the bottom than the top of the list.

Apr 27, 2009

fisicx said:
not saying it isn't a ranking signal but it's more likey to be closer to the bottom than the top of the list.

You would be surprised and not just google.

Earl

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