working in a mess

Esk247 · Mar 11, 2009

does anyone else find that its impossible to design a website/complete an order for a customer when they don't have a clear idea of what they want?

i'm not the most organised of people in every day life but im getting a headache with trying to explain to customers that they need to have a definitive tree diagram for their websites...showing how the pages link and how they interact..rather than just 'bung it up their for a bit and we'll worry about it later'

FluxServices · Mar 11, 2009

Esk247 said:
does anyone else find that its impossible to design a website/complete an order for a customer when they don't have a clear idea of what they want?

i'm not the most organised of people in every day life but im getting a headache with trying to explain to customers that they need to have a definitive tree diagram for their websites...showing how the pages link and how they interact..rather than just 'bung it up their for a bit and we'll worry about it later'

I no how you feel, I sometimes have this problem with customers but very small problems.

Cheers

Phill

Matt1959 · Mar 11, 2009

Esk247 said:
does anyone else find that its impossible to design a website/complete an order for a customer when they don't have a clear idea of what they want?

i'm not the most organised of people in every day life but im getting a headache with trying to explain to customers that they need to have a definitive tree diagram for their websites...showing how the pages link and how they interact..rather than just 'bung it up their for a bit and we'll worry about it later'

is it not encumbent on you the designer to tease out from the client what they want? Perhaps safe always to assume that the client never knows what they want and develope an approach that lets you get the info you need to get going on a project? is this not part of a designers skill? not a skill I've noticed much myself mind

sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick re. your post...

FluxServices · Mar 11, 2009

Matt1959 said:
is it not encumbent on you the designer to tease out from the client what they want? Perhaps safe always to assume that the client never knows what they want and develope an approach that lets you get the info you need to get going on a project? is this not part of a designers skill? not a skill I've noticed much myself mind sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick re. your post...

No we could find out what the customer wants but we could be sitting their for days/weeks creating designs and still not get anywhere, Its best for a customer to have a little bit of a clue that us designers can go on.

And also clients must know some of the content that they want on their website as its another job/price finding a person who can write the content for the client.

Cheers

Phill

Esk247 · Mar 11, 2009

Phill@Flux-Graphics said:
No we could find out what the customer wants but we could be sitting their for days/weeks creating designs and still not get anywhere, Its best for a customer to have a little bit of a clue that us designers can go on.

And also clients must know some of the content that they want on their website as its another job/price finding a person who can write the content for the client.

Cheers

Phill

this is my point...some customers i get have no idea what they WANT but have a very clear idea of what they DONT want and so it comes to throwing sketches back and forth but yet they still dont have a clear idea of what they are trying to achieve. I try to come up with a way through and they turn round and say 'yer but..no i prefer my idea' even if they are totally wrong and are missing their market and it involves me going right back to the drawing board and starting fresh everytime because they want to micro-manage what i'm doing even though i have no idea what i'm actually doing and end up bashing my head against a wall because they wont let me do what i've got experience in doing ... rant over.

FluxServices · Mar 11, 2009

Esk247 said:
this is my point...some customers i get have no idea what they WANT but have a very clear idea of what they DONT want and so it comes to throwing sketches back and forth but yet they still dont have a clear idea of what they are trying to achieve. I try to come up with a way through and they turn round and say 'yer but..no i prefer my idea' even if they are totally wrong and are missing their market and it involves me going right back to the drawing board and starting fresh everytime because they want to micro-manage what i'm doing even though i have no idea what i'm actually doing and end up bashing my head against a wall because they wont let me do what i've got experience in doing ... rant over.

I see your point..

Matt1959 · Mar 11, 2009

I asked a stationary designer to give me something over a year ago and gave them "a clue" well several actually as to what I wanted or didnt want. I said I liked "subtle" and that I liked "less is more" and first draft came back with a letterhead with a kind of shadowed inch high font along the footer

. If I was a designer, the first thing I'd do is telephone the client and have a 20 minute chat with them. During this chat I would be able to ascertain quite a bit about the client, their background, their experience in their field, their age, their attitude, demeanour and general approach all of which would give me lots of clues as to how to proceed with that client and tell me things like their attention to detail, their knowledge or past experiences of design etc etc. It would also allow me and the client to interact whilst perhaps jointly looking at sites on the Web whilst on the phone and discussing what looks good and what doesnt. You cant do this via email:| I'll bet money that lots of pro's in many fields don't do anything without physically speaking with the client first.

tony84 · Mar 11, 2009

Personally i used to make sites in an unorganised mannor i now realise lthough im full of enthusiasm i need to think about what i want first.

1 way to get your clients on your wavelength is to say it will be cheaper, the less time you spend on it the less it costs. They will soon start thinking and the fact it will be ready quicker so they can start earning sooner.

complete · Mar 11, 2009

I get people coming to me asking for amobile phone.

I then have to weed out of them an idea of thier future usage, coverage requirements, handset features needed and anything they may have forgotten or didn't know existed. I have to then arrange a package suitable for thier needs. This whole process from enquiry to completion takes about 45 mins.

I have a churn rate of 1% on a base of 3000 customers so must be doing g something right.

In designing a site you just need to ask the right questions and build the Tree in a meeting with the customer.

Make up or find some other sample designs to show them at that meeting.

It is your job to get the customer to divuldge what is wanted.

Pete Crane · Mar 11, 2009

Tony has a good point there. Tell them it will cost if they don't take it seriously.

I used to see some real fun debates between designers, coders and usability people. (Talking of which the first person to mention that Jakob muppet will be sleeping with the fishes!) But at least the customer had agreed to the basics by then.

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