Millions of Adults struggle with basic maths

wilfredw · Mar 9, 2009

Almost seven million adults struggle to answer maths and English questions that are meant for 11-year-olds, the Government said today, as it announced free training to improve the basic skills of adults [From the Times]

Have you noticed that people may be ashamed to admit weaknesses in literacy but find it perferctly normal to say "I'm bad at Maths" ?

An Oasis · Mar 9, 2009

I assume the figures are accurate, how embarrassing is that for NuSlags? Anyone got a spare brewery for them to try to run(intotheground)?

Rhyl Lightworks · Mar 9, 2009

wilfredw said:
Have you noticed that people may be ashamed to admit weaknesses in literacy but find it perferctly normal to say "I'm bad at Maths" ?

Yes, but what they often mean is that they are 'bad at mental arithmetic' which is not the same thing as Maths. Calculators mean there is no need to be good at this, although I suppose you have to know what you're doing to use one. Which does the Government really mean?

Barrie

Cornish Steve · Mar 10, 2009

In our small Cornish school, we all had to know our tables to 12 by the age of 6. I still remember how the entire class spent an afternoon (three hours) with our hands on our head because someone said "three fours is twelve" instead of "three fours are twelve". But let me tell you: It was worth it because, even today, I can give an instant response when asked to multiply numbers.

stugster · Mar 10, 2009

What's more.... There are only 10 types of people who understand basic binary! Those that do, and those that don't.

stockdam · Mar 10, 2009

stugster said:
What's more.... There are only 10 types of people who understand basic binary! Those that do, and those that don't.

What about the other 8?

A couple of years ago I was with the kids in a queue to get into a science museum. The guy in front was trying to work out how much it would cost for him, his wife and the two kids. All of them were coming up with different answers so he asked if they had a calculator. My ten year old son did it in his head. Not a difficult thing to do but it was amazing that two adults couldn't do it and wanted to resort to using a calculator.

Basic mental arithmetic like this should be common. Either the schooling let these people down or they just weren't bothered learning.

FireFleur · Mar 10, 2009

English Million or US Million?

Yes, it is disgraceful, I think Labour should be handing out this little number to all of them:

16k of problems, packed into this beast.

Mattonella Tile Studio · Mar 10, 2009

FireFleur said:
English Million or US Million?

Yes, it is disgraceful, I think Labour should be handing out this little number to all of them:

16k of problems, packed into this beast.

Awww, Little Professor. What a blast from the past. Fantastic.

JustOneUK · Mar 10, 2009

stugster said:
What's more.... There are only 10 types of people who understand basic binary! Those that do, and those that don't.

... liked that!

crazyshady · Mar 10, 2009

2 men and 3 women enter a room. After 4 days and 2 weeks one thing leads to another and they reproduce 9 months down the line 3 children are born. Only 2 men can be the father so one guy leaves. 18 years later one of the fathers dies and they all go to his funeral, but by that point one of the children has already had one child.

After the funeral how many adults and how many children are there left?

CKG · Mar 10, 2009

A few months ago I had to do the basic Royal Navy psychometric recruitment test.

I flew through the mechanical comprehension and literacy sections of the test.

I hit the mental aritmatic section and nearly came a cropper.

I've not had to multiply a fraction or do long division or multiplication for more than 13 years so had forgotton how to do it quickly - I really struggled.

Yet the people who do the test straight out of school fly through it no sweat.

So I'ts just skills fade. I used to be a whizz at trig whan I was 15. Now I can't remember the first thing about it.

If you don't use it you loose it.

wilfredw · Mar 10, 2009

Barrie, this is for you or anybody who wants to try!

A school boy has 98p in his wallet and wonders if he can buy three bags of sweets at 27p each. Show without using a calculator if he can.

stugster · Mar 10, 2009

I don't know if the working's right here, but I'd two 3 x 7 (units), and then the 3 x 2 (tens).

3 x 7 = 21p 3 x 2 = 60p

21 + 60p = 81p

Or: Round the 27p up to 30p, multiply by 3, and then subtract the 9p.

Kazzy · Mar 10, 2009

CKG said:
A few months ago I had to do the basic Royal Navy psychometric recruitment test.

I flew through the mechanical comprehension and literacy sections of the test.

I hit the mental aritmatic section and nearly came a cropper.

I've not had to multiply a fraction or do long division or multiplication for more than 13 years so had forgotton how to do it quickly - I really struggled.

Yet the people who do the test straight out of school fly through it no sweat.

So I'ts just skills fade. I used to be a whizz at trig whan I was 15. Now I can't remember the first thing about it.

If you don't use it you loose it.

I agree. While I was never brilliant at Maths at school, I could do fraction multiplying and long division etc - now though, I would have a really hard time remembering how it all works.

crazyshady · Mar 10, 2009

I was never good at long devision and fractions. But to be honest in this day and age you dont need to know how to do it all.

wilfredw · Mar 10, 2009

stugster said:
Or: Round the 27p up to 30p, multiply by 3, and then subtract the 9p.

You probaly meant 90 p (Do'n forget the 0 at the end of 30!) Well done. That's what I was looking for. You have applied

1) Rounding to the nearest 10
2) Done your 3 times table (3 x 3 = 9)
3) Finally, remembered to put the 0 at the end when multiplying where there are zeros at the end

stugster · Mar 10, 2009

Can you tell my g/f is a primary school teacher?

crazyshady · Mar 10, 2009

You didnt fool me, i already knew!

asonda · Mar 10, 2009

stugster said:
Can you tell my g/f is a primary school teacher?

Only when you play Teachers before your saturday night romp?, eh? Dirty Boy.

I thought she had that look about her.

Back on Subject, talk about Adults, I know people who left School and College dependant on a Calculator. Sad sad state really.

crazyshady · Mar 10, 2009

asonda said:
Only when you play Teachers before your saturday night romp?, eh? Dirty Boy.

I thought she had that look about her.

Back on Subject, talk about Adults, I know people who left School and College dependant on a Calculator. Sad sad state really.

Dont you think thats a bit harsh?

asonda · Mar 10, 2009

crazyshady said:
Dont you think thats a bit harsh?

What's Harsh?

If you mean the comment about Stuarts Missus, me and him are mates, all good fun.

If you mean the "Sad Sad State" Why?

When at School and College we were never expected to use our minds to work out any mathematical problems.

In Business studies, out of a class of around 16 people, I was one of two people who never used a calculator to work out cash flow forecasts, break even charts and the likes.

I personally think it is sad, that people have been taught mental arithmatic at primary school, then throughout secondary school and into college, it becomes less important, upto a stage where those that now leave, need a calculator to work out the simplest things...

Dawg · Mar 10, 2009

Or: Round the 27p up to 30p, multiply by 3, and then subtract the 9p.

Or: Round the 27p up to 30p, multiply by 3, realize that you have a result and stop computing as it's a waste of time and effort.

(This non-wastage of time and effort, multiplied by the many millions of people doing calculations about sweets, translated into calorific inputs needed for the calculation could probably save half the annual carbon footprint of a Prince of Wales every 3 days. How many bags of sweets to get him to be a real King and just not care?)

stugster · Mar 10, 2009

I was preparing for question two: what change will Billy get?

asonda · Mar 10, 2009

If the bus sets out at one hour intervals and starts the day off at 7:52am and takes 24 minutes to get to it's destination.

Jenni needs the catch the bus to get to work for 9am, however she takes 43 minutes to get ready, will she make the bus if she gets up at 7:15?

MikeD08 · Mar 10, 2009

asonda said:
If the bus sets out at one hour intervals and starts the day off at 7:52am and takes 24 minutes to get to it's destination.

Jenni needs the catch the bus to get to work for 9am, however she takes 43 minutes to get ready, will she make the bus if she gets up at 7:15?

Nope, she's going to miss the 7.52 bus and the 8.52 won't get her there in time. I suggest that Jenni get on the phone and gets a taxi sorted ASAP.

FireFleur · Mar 10, 2009

3 blokes go into an all you can eat Thai joint. They select the meal for three deal at 25 quid. At the end they all crack open their wallets and each pull out a tenner, they hand the 30 sterling to the waiter, and he goes off to get 5 quid in change.

On the way back to the table the waiter notices the blokes are already getting up and it look likes a tip is not forthcoming, so as quick as Thai Green Curry goes through the system, he hatches a cunning and devious plan. He tells them the deal was actually 9 pounds each (27 pounds total) so he gives each 1 pound ( 10 - 9 = 1 ) and pockets 2 quid ( 5 - ( 3 * 1 ) = 2 ).

So each has paid 9 pounds, and the waiter has 2 pounds in his engineered tip, that's ( 9 * 3 ) + 2 = ( 27 ) + 2 = 29, but they handed over 30 nicker, what happened to the missing pound?

JustOneUK · Mar 10, 2009

oops......... messed up my reply

Each man has £1 = 3
The waiter has £2 = 2
And £25 had been paid between the 3 men. Total £30

I did see a twist on this but can't remember it propely...
I just tried to write it out but think I got it wrong.

It was along the lines of..

They've now been charged £9 each and got £1 change as well (making £30) but if only £30 was handed over where did the EXTRA £2 come from that the waiter took.

Apologies if I've not written that right

Cornish Steve · Mar 10, 2009

stugster said:
I don't know if the working's right here, but I'd two 3 x 7 (units), and then the 3 x 2 (tens).

3 x 7 = 21p 3 x 2 = 60p

21 + 60p = 81p

Or: Round the 27p up to 30p, multiply by 3, and then subtract the 9p.

See - I don't think like that. I simply multiply 27 by 3 and get 81. If we're talking about multiplying much bigger numbers, then I use various short-cuts and tricks not dissimilar to your workings here.

One useful trick I learned as a child has helped me quite a lot. This one and others are based on simple algebra. In particular,

(10x+5)^2 = 100x^2 + 100x + 25 = 100x(x+1) + 25.

In other words, to find the square of any number ending in 5, take the number before the 5, multiply it by one plus that number, and stick 25 on the end.

85^2: 8x9=72, hence 7225
95^2: 9x10=90, hence 9025
995^2: 99x100=9900, hence 990025
3005^2: 300x301=90300, hence 9030025

These calculations can be done in a split second, and it looks quite impressive when you can calculate 3005^2 = 9030025 in about 2 seconds.

asonda · Mar 10, 2009

So each has paid 9 pounds, and the waiter has 2 pounds in his engineered tip, that's ( 9 * 3 ) + 2 = ( 27 ) + 2 = 29, but they handed over 30 nicker, what happened to the missing pound?

I may be wrong here, but if the waiter added his own £2 on then gave the men a pound each back.

2 + 3 = 5...which means the meal was £25, he faked the £27 Bill and got his engineered/made up £2 tip!

Cornish Steve · Mar 10, 2009

asonda said:
If the bus sets out at one hour intervals and starts the day off at 7:52am and takes 24 minutes to get to it's destination.

Jenni needs the catch the bus to get to work for 9am, however she takes 43 minutes to get ready, will she make the bus if she gets up at 7:15?

You're driving a bus from Penzance to Plymouth. 18 passengers climb aboard at the Penzance depot.
You stop at Hayle. 5 passengers get off and 9 passengers get on.
You stop at Truro. 12 passengers get off and 7 get on.
You stop at St. Austell. No passengers get off (who'd want to?) and 4 get on.
You stop at Bodmin. 8 passengers get off, but no one gets on because it was pouring with rain.
You stop at Liskeard. 12 passengers get off, and only 5 get on.
You stop at Saltash. 2 passengers get off, and 10 get on (mostly emmets).
Then you arrive at the Plymouth depot.

What colour are the driver's eyes?

Cornish Steve · Mar 10, 2009

asonda said:
she takes 43 minutes to get ready

I'm not going to consider this one because it has to be fictional. Only 43 minutes for a woman to get ready? Get real!

asonda · Mar 10, 2009

Cornish Steve said:
What colour are the driver's eyes?

LOL, Hazel. As according to the question/statement. It was Me driving the bus

Mar 10, 2009

wilfredw said:
You probaly meant 90 p (Do'n forget the 0 at the end of 30!) Well done. That's what I was looking for. You have applied

1) Rounding to the nearest 10
2) Done your 3 times table (3 x 3 = 9)
3) Finally, remembered to put the 0 at the end when multiplying where there are zeros at the end

Nah he couldn't buy none, cause he's a fat little pig and his mum wouldn't let him.

Earl

stockdam · Mar 10, 2009

FireFleur said:
3 blokes go into an all you can eat Thai joint. They select the meal for three deal at 25 quid. At the end they all crack open their wallets and each pull out a tenner, they hand the 30 sterling to the waiter, and he goes off to get 5 quid in change.

On the way back to the table the waiter notices the blokes are already getting up and it look likes a tip is not forthcoming, so as quick as Thai Green Curry goes through the system, he hatches a cunning and devious plan. He tells them the deal was actually 9 pounds each (27 pounds total) so he gives each 1 pound ( 10 - 9 = 1 ) and pockets 2 quid ( 5 - ( 3 * 1 ) = 2 ).

So each has paid 9 pounds, and the waiter has 2 pounds in his engineered tip, that's ( 9 * 3 ) + 2 = ( 27 ) + 2 = 29, but they handed over 30 nicker, what happened to the missing pound?

There's no missing pound.

They originally gave £30 but it could have been £50 and in that case where did the missing £21 go to?

The bill was £25, they paid £27 and the difference is what the waiter got....£2.

You are mixing up two equations (well the story is).

The guys owed £25, they paid £30 and got back £5 so this balances. Out of this £5 they paid £2 to the waiter and kept £3 so this balances.

FireFleur · Mar 10, 2009

Well you are all mainly there

It is the final statement it relates to the 25 not the 30 and the 2 is to be subtracted not added.

Doing the 50 it becomes more obvious:

50 - 27 = 23 = 7.66 * 3 our crafty waiter gets an extra 2 penny.

So, 27 + 2 + 0.02 + 23 = 52.02 where did the 2.02 come from

27 - 2 = 25

asonda · Mar 10, 2009

FireFleur said:
Well you are all mainly there

It is the final statement it relates to the 25 not the 30 and the 2 is to be subtracted not added.

Doing the 50 it becomes more obvious:

50 - 27 = 23 = 7.66 * 3 our crafty waiter gets an extra 2 penny.

So, 27 + 2 + 0.02 + 23 = 52.02 where did the 2.02 come from

27 - 2 = 25

How does this relate to the original question?

The waiter faked the £27 bill as the real bill was only £25, so he had £5 to play with...no extra pound.

FireFleur · Mar 10, 2009

So each has paid 9 pounds, and the waiter has 2 pounds in his engineered tip, that's ( 9 * 3 ) + 2 = ( 27 ) + 2 = 29, but they handed over 30 nicker, what happened to the missing pound?

It is a very old conundrum, the answer is there is no missing pound, the comparison is not with 30 it is with 25.

http://www.google.com/search?q=missing+dollar+puzzle

30 and 25, 3 and 2 are chosen for the closeness, to allow the addition to seem ok.

stugster · Mar 10, 2009

asonda said:
LOL, Hazel. As according to the question/statement. It was Me driving the bus

No it wasn't, it was me.

asonda · Mar 10, 2009

FireFleur said:
So each has paid 9 pounds, and the waiter has 2 pounds in his engineered tip, that's ( 9 * 3 ) + 2 = ( 27 ) + 2 = 29, but they handed over 30 nicker, what happened to the missing pound?

It is a very old conundrum, the answer is there is no missing pound, the comparison is not with 30 it is with 25.

http://www.google.com/search?q=missing+dollar+puzzle

30 and 25, 3 and 2 are chosen for the closeness, to allow the addition to seem ok.

Erm, Answer = No Missing Pound = Exactly what I said!!!

FireFleur · Mar 10, 2009

Yes, that's why I said you were all mainly there

Millions of Adults struggle with basic maths

Rhyl Lightworks

Mattonella Tile Studio

JustOneUK

CKG

Kazzy

Dawg

MikeD08

JustOneUK

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