Builder's advice please...

[LisaHoughton]

Our extension build has hit the proverbial fan today whilst digging for the foundations ... any builders/structural engineers out there to give me some advice? ... as tomorrow morning seems a lifetime away ... and at the moment ... just want to weep!
Thanks,
Lisa.

[crossdaz]

Our extension build has hit the proverbial fan today whilst digging for the foundations ... any builders/structural engineers out there to give me some advice? ... as tomorrow morning seems a lifetime away ... and at the moment ... just want to weep!
Thanks,
Lisa.

what's the problem ?

[scribe]

Bust a drain, gone through the gas /electric, water supply ?

[LisaHoughton]

Basically ... the builder dug down and down and couldn't find compacted sand to build on ... so the structural engineer is coming tomorrow to look at solutions ... maybe ?piles?. Sorry to be so vague ... but was so upset today at the amount of money I may have to find ... when at top of budget anyway. Thanks for your help. L

[crossdaz]

Bust a drain, gone through the gas /electric, water supply ?

......found an unexploded bomb?

[crossdaz]

Basically ... the builder dug down and down and couldn't find compacted sand to build on ... so the structural engineer is coming tomorrow to look at solutions ... maybe ?piles?. Sorry to be so vague ... but was so upset today at the amount of money I may have to find ... when at top of budget anyway. Thanks for your help. L

Wait and see what the engineer says.

[LisaHoughton]

I know you're right and I also know it's thousands rather than hundreds .....sob ... going to get some wine. Thanks. L

[ThePrintBarn]

eek! we had to pile one of our sites a while back, luckily it was sitting pretty all by itself with not much around it, so we called in sum vibro compaction pilers, beasty looking things.

Alot of old houses were built without proper foundation (or none at all as we've so often found :() it's certainly cheaper to pile before you build then having to underpin a building once it starts subsiding :|

good luck with the quotes and suggestions tomorrow, do let us know how you get on

[LisaHoughton]

eek! we had to pile one of our sites a while back, luckily it was sitting pretty all by itself with not much around it, so we called in sum vibro compaction pilers, beasty looking things.

Alot of old houses were built without proper foundation (or none at all as we've so often found :() it's certainly cheaper to pile before you build then having to underpin a building once it starts subsiding :|

good luck with the quotes and suggestions tomorrow, do let us know how you get on
Thank you , Lx

[estwig]

By structural engineer do you mean Building Control??

Who has said you need to spend thousands?? the builder, the architect, building control, a structural engineer???

My one overwhelming piece of advice is step back from the pressure to get on with the build, please just step back and stop all work for 2 weeks while this is resolved. Problems like this take time to find the best solution, with at times too many different 'professionals' having an opinion.

[estwig]

Alot of old houses were built without proper foundation (or none at all as we've so often found :() it's certainly cheaper to pile before you build then having to underpin a building once it starts subsiding :|



That's because a lot of older houses, being older, were constructed completely differently from today's modern cavity construction houses and therefore didn't need much in the way of foundations. But a surveyor or builder might have a different story for you, for their own reasons.

[LisaHoughton]

Structural engineer coming in the morning. My husband agrees with you ... but in the meantime I'm left working on a sink and a microwave and lying awake about the budget.... (maybe even divorce costs too ;))
Thanks again,
L

[estwig]

Talk to building control, it is their call not the builders or structural muppet (sorry professional). BC are very friendly, approachable and helpful, give them a call and ask them to come out and inspect.

Above all, don't be pressured, stop the work until you and your husband feel comfortable you have found the best solution to the problem.

Good luck and shout if I can help.

:)

[scribe]

Your builder should be sorting this out for you, that's what your paying him for.

[LisaHoughton]

Your builder should be sorting this out for you, that's what your paying him for.
He is ... I just need answers tonight ... impatient (worried) woman!

[estwig]

Your builder should be sorting this out for you, that's what your paying him for.


No, your builder should be working to a fixed quote, that doesn't include doing whatever you think he should.

[LisaHoughton]

Talk to building control, it is their call not the builders or structural muppet (sorry professional). BC are very friendly, approachable and helpful, give them a call and ask them to come out and inspect.

Above all, don't be pressured, stop the work until you and your husband feel comfortable you have found the best solution to the problem.

Good luck and shout if I can help.

:)
Thank you so much for your replies ... we've talked with the BC guy today and he seems friendly ... on and up ... you and a couple of gin & tonics have helped me move forward ... there's always the credit card. If it's ok ... can I keep you updated?

Thanks,
Lisa

[estwig]

Please do, been here many times.

[LisaHoughton]

No, your builder should be working to a fixed quote, that doesn't include doing whatever you think he should.
He's working to a fixed price and I think his margins are tiny .... he's given us breakdowns and he was way under any other local quotes. When he discovered the problems today ... he was fabulous.... very lovely and even offered to try to shave a bit more off to help.

[ThePrintBarn]

sounds lke a nice guy maybe we should give him a call too! *wonders why he's still spending his eveings and spare time tinkering away in dust filled attics and lofts*

[ThePrintBarn]

oh and good luck with it all, did i say that already? hmm well it still stands, keep us posted :)

[estwig]

Whay a good builder, a decent fella, normal, like most builders, best not tell the media about it........Not news worthy!!!

:)

[LisaHoughton]

Please do, been here many times.
Thank you x

[LisaHoughton]

sounds lke a nice guy maybe we should give him a call too! *wonders why he's still spending his eveings and spare time tinkering away in dust filled attics and lofts*
I know what you're saying ... but there is an implicit cost in treating the house and it's 'lady' right:):):):)

[crossdaz]

Talk to building control, it is their call not the builders or structural muppet (sorry professional). BC are very friendly, approachable and helpful, give them a call and ask them to come out and inspect.


Building Control only check that the work meets building regulations. Although they may offer advice this isn't going to be much use if anything goes wrong.
The point of having a report from a professional engineer is that there is a liability upon him if anything does go wrong.

[crossdaz]

Alot of old houses were built without proper foundation (or none at all as we've so often found :() it's certainly cheaper to pile before you build then having to underpin a building once it starts subsiding :|


This is true and a problem often not uncovered until you make a major alteration.
There are quite a few innovative solutions nowadays with mini-piling that don't necessarily involve as much expense as you think.
Also there is the possibility of just digging deeper and constructing reinforced concrete pads.
Sometimes the solution is not always as bad as you imagine?

[movietub]

I hate the heart dropping moment of realisation when these things happen! - Why can't the project just go to plan? Why!?

But take some comfort in knowing that as we all do you will find a solution and ultimately a way to pay - within time you will be fully recovered and still have the new extension.

If its a huge bill but the extension will increase the value of your home to a reasonable degree a small remortgage should be possible to cover costs. Or as you say, a roomy credit card.

[LisaHoughton]

Thanks for all of you support and advice. The structural engineer came this morning and we only need 4 piles and the supporting 'bits' that go with it.... so not as bad as I thought. The pain now is that we have to give 4 weeks notice to both sides of our neighbours which will hold the work up! The engineer has suggested that we cover ourselves by having the condition of their properties surveyed before any work. Will keep you posted. Thanks once again.
Lisa x

[estwig]

Building Control only check that the work meets building regulations. Although they may offer advice this isn't going to be much use if anything goes wrong.
The point of having a report from a professional engineer is that there is a liability upon him if anything does go wrong.

No it doesn't work like that, not with the footings it doesn't, the depth and final design of the footings is at the discretion of BC and subject to site conditions. It is always best to double check whatever BC want, as they will always want overkill to cover themselves, there not the ones paying for the extra work.


Lisa if you have to give the neighbours 4 weeks notice, you will need to familiarise yourself with, The Party Wall etc. Act 1996 (http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/133214.pdf), or the surveyors will scr*w you. Any problems talk to The Pyramus & Thistle Club, their number is at the back of the booklet, they offer good free advice on the party wall act and help to stop the surveyors scr*wing you.

Good luck.

[scribe]

No, your builder should be working to a fixed quote, that doesn't include doing whatever you think he should.

I'm a builder, if theres a problem on a job i sort it out, advice and info comes free from me. It's in my interest to take away any stress from my client's there not builders after all .

[joby]

Unfortunately, being a small family construction firm, we always have to stress to the client that unless an extensive survey has been carried out no matter what depth of foundation is stated on the drawing it is always the decision of the building control office as to the minimum depth. When foundations go below approx 3m on small residential contracts it is normally safer and best practice to construct mini piles and reinforce concrete ground beams. You will also have to change the floor construction to concrete beam and block if you go below 2.5m.

Althouth the cost of piling can be approx 20-30% more than standard strip footings unfortunately when you are 'in the ground' sometimes there is no choice. Before you spend money on a structural engineer be at the meeting with the building control office whose fees you have alreay paid in obtain building regs or a building notice and get his advise/recommendations.

[estwig]

Top stuff joby, thanks.

[LisaHoughton]

Well Notices served to both neighbours .... watch this space.