Link Building

[GridmodelsUK]

Does anyone have any proven link building tips? I feel that most of these directory sites are a bit of a con. Also, do links from social media sites count?

[fisicx]

Think about it logically. Google is looking for a reason to rank your website. After it has finished indexing the site it will look elsewhere for endoresments in the form of inbound links.

If it finds a link in a directory that is mixed in with 100 other similar links with nothing more than a bare bones description this is hardly an endorsement. On the other hand if it finds a link extolling the quality of your service then google is going to give that link the thumbs up.

Socilas media sites can be very good for traffic but the links are pretty much worthless. One reason is for this is the explosion in social networking, there are hundreds of thousands of sites and a good number of the memebers only reason for existance is to promote their own website. If you do the same then you will just get lost in the plethora of spammy links that abound in social media sites.

BTW, you do realise that while your site is down for development you are going to lose all of your ranking - google will drop all your pages from the index.

[ElliotClark]

Think about it logically. Google is looking for a reason to rank your website. After it has finished indexing the site it will look elsewhere for endoresments in the form of inbound links.

If it finds a link in a directory that is mixed in with 100 other similar links with nothing more than a bare bones description this is hardly an endorsement. On the other hand if it finds a link extolling the quality of your service then google is going to give that link the thumbs up.

Socilas media sites can be very good for traffic but the links are pretty much worthless. One reason is for this is the explosion in social networking, there are hundreds of thousands of sites and a good number of the memebers only reason for existance is to promote their own website. If you do the same then you will just get lost in the plethora of spammy links that abound in social media sites.

BTW, you do realise that while your site is down for development you are going to lose all of your ranking - google will drop all your pages from the index.
Do you claim that blog catalog links are useless, moreover harmful?

[edmondscommerce]

i dont think harmful links exist

the worse is that you will just waste a load of time, effort and possibly cash on worthless links

[JustOneUK]

Does anyone have any proven link building tips?
Yep, Start with a fantastic website.

I feel that most of these directory sites are a bit of a con.
Why's that? I have exactly the same feeling about social media sites

Also, do links from social media sites count?
See above :p

A link is a link, you can take it or leave it... you decide. After all, it's your business that you're trying to promote :)

[tb1234]

Most blogs and social media sites use nofollow for links, so they pass on no link juice but may provide good traffic.

Links from related websites/pages are the most valuable especially if the site is an authority in its niche with few outbound links.

Tony

[PrettyPaws]

Have a look who's linking to other sites on a similar theme to your own and get in contact with them.

We're about to launch a cat's only site in the near future and at the moment I'm looking at other sites and examining thier links, I'll approach the linking sites when the time is right. The list is about 100 so far and I've ony been on it about half an hour. It'll be a good start for a new site but you need to do more than just this.

[holidays2crete]

social media is an important way of generating traffic, I get an absoloute tonne of traffic from groups and the like. Also I see from stat****er my links are coming from other peoples shared sites and social media inboxes.

Once you get the right content social media sites do the work for you.

The link value I dont really know, but the genuine traffic is excellent.

[fisicx]

Once you get the right content social media sites do the work for you.

The link value I dont really know, but the genuine traffic is excellent.

But how many actually convert? It would be muich better to get 50 conversions from 100 highly targetted visitors a day than 10 conversions from 1000 social media visitors.

[holidays2crete]

But how many actually convert? It would be muich better to get 50 conversions from 100 highly targetted visitors a day than 10 conversions from 1000 social media visitors.

i see where your coming from, but I know some are converting. And to be honest it took me about 3 hours to work through facebook groups for relevent groups and post a simple link, with relevant text. 3 hours of work which will stay there forever.

plus im not even posting anything on facebook at the moment and I get new "shares" and inbox referals coming to my site everyday. One of my pages works very well with facebooks younger market and so much so I need to redesign page as its becming the 5th highest entry point into my site

[GridmodelsUK]

thanks for your input - My site is ready to go but I just want to make sure I have a rough plan in place before pushing it live. I guess I'll just aim to get as many links as possible from anywhere I can!

[omnivore]

are link selling agencies any good?

[fisicx]

thanks for your input - My site is ready to go but I just want to make sure I have a rough plan in place before pushing it live. I guess I'll just aim to get as many links as possible from anywhere I can!

This is a completely pointless exercise. Google is not going to give you any credit for building any old links. You need quality not quantity: http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2008/10/good-times-with-inbound-links.html

[GridmodelsUK]

I know I have to get them from relevant sites with relevant content etc. I just meant I'll get as many as I can of those

[fisicx]

I know I have to get them from relevant sites with relevant content etc. I just meant I'll get as many as I can of those

Still pointless. It's not the links YOU get, it's the links other people give to you. What you want is for someone to endorse your services in blog post or article. These sort of links have to be earned and the way to do this is to build a site that is interesting, informative and adds value to the visitor. Just doing this can often be enough to put a niche site on page one. And if the site meets the needs of your visitors then the inbound links will come. If you try and rush things and go get hundreds of inbound links in a short period you may well trigger the alarms at Google as it will appear to be an attempt to boost your ranking through link building.

[Coderea]

thanks for your input - My site is ready to go but I just want to make sure I have a rough plan in place before pushing it live. I guess I'll just aim to get as many links as possible from anywhere I can!

This is actually a wrong thinking about getting as many links you can...Try to build a link development strategy if you are concerned about your site..List down few related keywords and search for some sites who might want to exchange links with you..Getting quality backlinks would help in search engine rankings..Msg me if you would like me to pass you a link building manual we have developed..for our employees..

are link selling agencies any good?

Not really..! but yes..there are few companies who do link building for sites..!

[IainW]

I see from stat****er

Really, can i see one...hmmmm

[PrettyPaws]

Still pointless. It's not the links YOU get, it's the links other people give to you. What you want is for someone to endorse your services in blog post or article. These sort of links have to be earned and the way to do this is to build a site that is interesting, informative and adds value to the visitor. Just doing this can often be enough to put a niche site on page one. And if the site meets the needs of your visitors then the inbound links will come. If you try and rush things and go get hundreds of inbound links in a short period you may well trigger the alarms at Google as it will appear to be an attempt to boost your ranking through link building.

Rubbish. So you're saying that link building is pointless? You can't do anything to aid the number of inbound links to your site? Now come on!

[thebookiesoffers]

Rubbish. So you're saying that link building is pointless? You can't do anything to aid the number of inbound links to your site? Now come on!

I agree with Paws on this one. I ask a site to add my link and they do, how are google to know that the link isn't a natural endorsment

[fisicx]

Rubbish. So you're saying that link building is pointless? You can't do anything to aid the number of inbound links to your site? Now come on!

I've never done any link building. I prefer to ensure the site is full of good quality content and let the SE do it's job. The site in my sig doesn't have any useful inbounds links but still ranks well. I'm on page 1 for 'effective web design' and 'web design advice' and whole range of other similar searches.

[fisicx]

I agree with Paws on this one. I ask a site to add my link and they do, how are google to know that the link isn't a natural endorsment

Because Google has got a very sophisitcated PageRank technology system. If you ask for a link and it ends up on a links page then the value of that link is virtually zero.

This page for example: http://www.uk-jumping.com/links.htm sticks out like a sore thumb as nothing more than a link building page.

[PrettyPaws]

I'm on page 1 for 'effective web design' and 'web design advice' and whole range of other similar searches.

Similar in terms of low competitiveness? We're page one for "Dog Collars", "ID Tags", "Dog Accessories" etc etc. We wouldn't be if it wasn't for our link building.

If you ask for a link and it ends up on a links page then the value of that link is virtually zero.


Only if you don't know what you're doing! :D

[thebookiesoffers]

Because Google has got a very sophisitcated PageRank technology system. If you ask for a link and it ends up on a links page then the value of that link is virtually zero.

This page for example: http://www.uk-jumping.com/links.htm sticks out like a sore thumb as nothing more than a link building page.

there is no way in the world that google can determine whether a link was asked for or was an organic link. If you can get a page in the top 10 for 'free bets' with no links then maybe i'll believe some of your claims. Infact do it before march 22nd and i'll donate £50 to a charity of your choice, and thats a sincere offer

[PrettyPaws]

£50! is that all?...how long have you been trying to do it?

there is no way in the world that google can determine whether a link was asked for or was an organic link. If you can get a page in the top 10 for 'free bets' with no links then maybe i'll believe some of your claims. Infact do it before march 22nd and i'll donate £50 to a charity of your choice, and thats a sincere offer

[thebookiesoffers]

yes, problem?
nice edit btw, my point is if the poster claims links are not important they will be able to place a site in the top ten for this term. I've dangled a generous and genuine carrot to allow them to put their points into evidence
£50! is that all?...how long have you been trying to do it?

[fisicx]

Similar in terms of low competitiveness? We're page one for "Dog Collars", "ID Tags", "Dog Accessories" etc etc. We wouldn't be if it wasn't for our link building.

Ok, ok, I admit defeat! I've never said link building wasn't a good thing to do, it's just that too many consider quantity over quality. That's all I'm trying to point out.

there is no way in the world that google can determine whether a link was asked for or was an organic link.

Really?

Of course you can ask for a link but it needs to be integrated into the main part of the site as an endorsement to have value. If the link is on a links page then Google won't give that link much credibility. The google blog even advises that this not a good strategy.

[fisicx]

yes, problem?
nice edit btw, my point is if the poster claims links are not important they will be able to place a site in the top ten for this term. I've dangled a generous and genuine carrot to allow them to put their points into evidence

It is quite possible to do this without asking for links. If the site is of sufficient quality, is popular and is well targeted then the inbound links will accumulate by people endorsing the site.

I doubt I'd be able to get a single page to rank well for 'free bets' unless it was part of a whole site dedicated to betting. I will have a go though....see you in 6 months!

[PrettyPaws]

Ok, ok, I admit defeat! I've never said link building wasn't a good thing to do, it's just that too many consider quantity over quality. That's all I'm trying to point out.


I agree ;)

[thebookiesoffers]

like i say mate, my offer is there. some of the major sites in my field have resource or links pages so what you are saying is if i was on the links page of some of the major hitters in my field then that link would be worthless? i beg to differ

Ok, ok, I admit defeat! I've never said link building wasn't a good thing to do, it's just that too many consider quantity over quality. That's all I'm trying to point out.



Really?

Of course you can ask for a link but it needs to be integrated into the main part of the site as an endorsement to have value. If the link is on a links page then Google won't give that link much credibility. The google blog even advises that this not a good strategy.

[fisicx]

like i say mate, my offer is there. some of the major sites in my field have resource or links pages so what you are saying is if i was on the links page of some of the major hitters in my field then that link would be worthless? i beg to differ

Do a test. Ask for you link to be removed and see if you ranking changes. If it does then the link had value. If it doesn't then the link didn't matter.

Google tells us that you shouldn't participate in link schemes in order to manipulate PageRank: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66356.

Your link on the links page is only there to help you ranking. It serves no other purpose and Google is clever enough to spot this. Ok so Google might not penalise you but it certainly isn't going to give you lots of brownie points for a link on a page with hundreds of other links like this one: http://www.ukhorseracing.co.uk/links/default.asp

[LBtrading]

Link Building is crucial,

Fisicx a couple of things first of all to rank for any competitive term you need links as well as good onpage.

2nd point I always hear build quality content and attract links naturally which is half true but people miss-understand

we all know that when building links that the anchor text is very important because its a big factor in the google alg. now if you go down your theory then you may get customers endorsing your site by linking back but I can say that most links will be the web address itself or click here or some crap which isnt effective,

now the create quality content refers to writing articles, press releases with your anchor text links in pointing back to your site and then you would contact relevent sites to see if they would be interested in posting/using your article on their site. They get quality content and you get a quality relevent anchr text link back to your site.

I do understand and agree that people focus on quantity rather than quality but either way link building is very important.

also when people say they have done article marketing and various other techniques but it doesnt work 9 times out of 10 then its because they will write 1 or 2 and build links for a week or a month and then stop,

link building is definately an ongoing process the key is being consistent

[tb1234]

I agree LBtrading, article marketing and press release marketing are a great way of build links. Here are some resources:

www.ezinearticles.com (http://www.ezinearticles.com)
www.responsesource.com (http://www.responsesource.com)
www.prnewswire.com (http://www.prnewswire.com)

There are many more, the good thing about press releases is the possibility of the story being picked up by an authority site such as a national paper and getting a link from them.

I have used all of the above and they all allow linking with modified anchor text.

Reciprocal links are of lower value, as are signature links, and profile links, but they are still of value.

[fisicx]

I don't say that link building isn't important, it's just not as important as it was.

If you write a press release and include the link back to the site and then syndicate the release then the value of those links will be much lower than an article which cites you as a resource. What really makes the difference is the relevancy of the target page. Google even tells us that an endorsement is the best type of link to get but also warns against activities designed to manipulate PageRank.

And quality content on your own site will help your ranking more than that same content on another site. I can't find the source but one of the Google engineers even showed how the link juice reduces for inbound links, you lose 15% for every link in the chain.

[tb1234]

If you write a press release and include the link back to the site and then syndicate the release then the value of those links will be much lower than an article which cites you as a resource.

I am not talking about using spammy press release services here, I am talking about quality sites. If these are picked up by the press you may be lucky enough to get a link - bingo. Some local papers might just reuse the content with no modification, or they might top and tail it. These are of less value, the diligent jouranlists will completely rewrite creating a unique article hopefully with a mention of your business and ideally with a link.

Google even tells us that an endorsement is the best type of link to get but also warns against activities designed to manipulate PageRank.

I think they are talking about buying text links, posts etc it is not a warning about the PR and marketing industries.

[fisicx]

Totally agree tb,

But too many people will use this advice as an excuse to shove any old thing anywhere they can. And it's also important to note that not every link/article needs to have an SEO purpose, many of them are good SEM, bringing targeted visitors who convert which ultimately is the goal of any site rather than just aiming to improve ranking.

[LBtrading]

I don't say that link building isn't important, it's just not as important as it was.

If you write a press release and include the link back to the site and then syndicate the release then the value of those links will be much lower than an article which cites you as a resource. What really makes the difference is the relevancy of the target page. Google even tells us that an endorsement is the best type of link to get but also warns against activities designed to manipulate PageRank.

And quality content on your own site will help your ranking more than that same content on another site. I can't find the source but one of the Google engineers even showed how the link juice reduces for inbound links, you lose 15% for every link in the chain.

Link building is more important now than ever, why? because more people are aware of the benfeits of seo thus more websites are optimised.

I understand what you mean about the same article or press release distributed will have less value but simply put it has alot more value than 0 links.

and the chain of linking with the 15% value thing I think you are talking about pr value and not the links pointing to your site like this :

three sites are linking together A,B and C site C links to site B and Site B links to Site A then the 15% devalue will be from site C to A which is just one link and doesnt really matter as many more sites may be will be linking to site B anyway,

Building relevent quality 1 way links is the most important part of seo along with onpage optimisation.

to say link building isnt as important is incorrect the search engines have just changed how they value certian links and devalued things like directory and reciprocal links and I say devalued not quite 100% worthless.

in an ideal world you wuld only build quality links but it is good to have a mixture of links to avoid fluctuations when algos update because as long as you have a mixture of links then no matter what type of links the search engines deem important you should have some.

[tb1234]

Building relevent quality 1 way links is the most important part of seo along with onpage optimisation.

to say link building isnt as important is incorrect the search engines have just changed how they value certian links and devalued things like directory and reciprocal links and I say devalued not quite 100% worthless.



I agree with this, despite what Google want us to believe. It is also worth pointing out that some links might be nearly worthless to Google, but links of low value from Google's perspective will still benefit Yahoo rankings.