British jobs for British workers

[thebigIAM]

I would be interested to know what people think about the Total dispute at Killingholme.

Generally, I'm in favour of letting the boss be the boss but all my instincts fall apart on this dispute. I cannot see the economic sense of transporting 100 workers from Italy and Portugal to do a job that can be done by locals. Locals contend they were not given an opportunity to apply for the jobs, effectively amounting to racial discimination against Lincolnshire people. The 100 or so workers don't even bring money into the local economy by staying in B&Bs (There are plenty in Cleethorpes). Instead they are housed effectively in prison ships - barges moored at Grimsby dock.

I note none of the action/protests is being organised by unions at all. They are all wildcat strikes.

Beware the power of spontaneous protest.

[murdoch]

when the economy wasnt doing badly, people were not complaining. We need these foreigners because British people dont want to work for a low wage. Sorry but thats my opinion. The strikes are ridiculous- what is this, the 1970's?

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Lazy bunch of B@@@@@@ds

I dont know much about Italinans but I would much rarther employ Polish workers ect .They are far more committed only on Thursday we had an important job with a big customer .A Lithuanian lad call Inuite did the run. I did not have to worry he did a better job than I could do .

Why any body would want to employ these usless yobs on the picket line I will never know ..

I have never had the luxury of going on strike when a competitor takes a customer .These wasters have enjoyed the charity of gainfull employment and now the ungreatfull chavs walk out :mad:

[dataferret]

For years we have been subject to an influx of foreign nationals on the basis they are "underpinning the economy" and "local people will not take low paid jobs". Anyone who complained was villified as a racist.

Well here is a reality check. The economy is on its knees and the influx of immigrants is now flowing in the opposite direction. Most of the money earned by said immigrants has been sent out of the country and now the well has run dry they are leaving en-masse.

The dispute at Killinghome is one example of the side effects this open door policy has had on local people throughout Britain. Until now nobody has cared to listen. I predict a lot more strikes and social unrest as times get leaner. From jobs to housing, the native inhabitants are tired of seeing people come in and get preferntial treatment.

If local people want the jobs, have the skills and are willing to do the work at a realistic rate then they should be given the chance to do the jobs. Anything less is discrimination!

[biomed86]

Maybe it's the way the media portrays the information, but it seems that the local people only want the jobs when they are being offered to foreigners...but who knows the real situation? It only gets highlighted when you hear things such as the dispute in Killingholme!

[sysops]

Generally, I'm in favour of letting the boss be the boss but all my instincts fall apart on this dispute. I cannot see the economic sense of transporting 100 workers from Italy and Portugal to do a job that can be done by locals. Locals contend they were not given an opportunity to apply for the jobs, effectively amounting to racial discimination against Lincolnshire people. The 100 or so workers don't even bring money into the local economy by staying in B&Bs (There are plenty in Cleethorpes). Instead they are housed effectively in prison ships - barges moored at Grimsby dock.



I think they should sack the lot of them. It is disgraceful. These are well paid people who are not out of work. They have nothing to ***** about, and have no right to stop work when they disagree with management decisions.


I note none of the action/protests is being organised by unions at all. They are all wildcat strikes.


Beware the power of spontaneous protest.


Of course they are organised by the unions, they just aren't official. Or perhaps you think they coordinate and communicate on Facebook?

[directmarketingadvice]

"we want British jobs for British workers"

Really? Then why the **** are you working for a French company?

Steve

[norton]

when the economy wasnt doing badly, people were not complaining. We need these foreigners because British people dont want to work for a low wage. Sorry but thats my opinion. The strikes are ridiculous- what is this, the 1970's?

The Human Resources Manager at Total said in an interview on Radio 4's PM programme last week that all the foreign workers were commanding the same wages as British workers.

This situation underlines a very worrying trend in this country, a trend towards dismantling British industry and manufacturing as a whole.

I have just finished a short contract at the new gas fired power station being built near Southampton. The main contractor is Siemens of Germany, the part of construction I was concerned with is being done by YIT of Finland the rest being carried out with Spanish and Italian companies.

All the installed equipment is foreign, items like valves, pressure vessels and instrumentation. Most of the skilled work force is from Europe. The gas will come from Norway or Qatar.

The chickens the Conservative governments under Thatcher and Major are now coming home to roost - and how!!

They more than anyone supervised the dismantling of our industrial base, favouring the notion of an economy based on an unregulated banking system under pinned by a reliance on the ever increasing value of property coupled with the idea that wealth can be generated by selling intangibles like finance and insurance. Let the third world build the cars, trucks, ships and machine tools.

Goodbye ICI, GEC, AEI, ICL, Vickers, all car, lorry and train manufacturers. Most of our power generators, gas and water utilities are foreign run. British Energy which operates all our AGR nuclear power stations is in French hands, This has an interesting consequence in that the by-products from these stations fuels our nuclear weapons!

We are still sitting on reserves of coal which would last us for the next 300 years! All lost because of a dumbfounding attitude of one Tory administration.

Surely the basis of any wealth generation has to be established on the principle of designing and manufacturing commodities to sell so that we can afford to pay our way in this world.....or were our Victorian ancestors all mistaken?

What is happening at the moment in the UK is just following the path laid down by the laissez-faire moneyterists; short term wealth, long term decline, so it is inevitable that having lost our industry we are in no position to dictate who should employ our workforce.

[ken_uk]

God help us if there is a war, and we fall out with all the countries supplying us with everything.

We are so dependant on other countries, we would be a sitting duck if they decided to stop trade.

[sysops]

The chickens the Conservative governments under Thatcher and Major are now coming home to roost - and how!!

This is what I love about Labour supporters. 12 years of Labour incompetence, and they still manage to blame the Conservatives for all the country's problems.

[ken_uk]

Labour, conservative, whatever - do any of them care what happens long term?

Do any of them have common sense?

[sysops]

I think for me, the one thing that sets them apart is the tendency of all Labour governments to increase the size of the public sector, while the Conservatives do the opposite.

A large public sector is a huge liability, and inherently the most inefficient way of achieving an output.

[norton]

This is what I love about Labour supporters. 12 years of Labour incompetence, and they still manage to blame the Conservatives for all the country's problems.

I have never voted labour in my life!

This administration and Blair's is certainly not Labour.

You are right, though, this administration is just as much to blame.

But as usual Tories have no concept of culpability towards the desperate plight of this country caused by their greedy self centered short sighted policies.

[Delta-SI]

Meh they can go on strike forever all I care, lets sack them and replace them with people who will do actual work.

[Dawg]

British workers go on strike at a plant owned by foreigners. This is hardly going to encourage the inward flow of investment is it? It just adds to the premium of doing business in the UK, which is high already: wage costs, bureaucratic costs, heritage infrastructure, physical position; all mitigate against inward investment.

On the specific dispute, IREM, the Italian contractor is allowed to bring in it's own specialist workers for limited contract work, which this is. They claim that when the contract started that there were was a shortage of skilled workers in Lincs. which lead to the Italian and Portuguese workers been brought in. If there had been local workers with the necessary skills I would have thought that it made commercial and political/PR sense to employ locally. If IREM choose a more expensive route to employ people, as they have, there must be other considerations. Perhaps one of those is the (perceived?) willingness of British workers to strike. Perhaps not, but there must be some rationale.

As to blaming the Thatcher and Major governments: fantastic. In the real sense of the word. What sort of fantasy would regard the 1970s as a golden heyday of British industry, with the continual strikes, a 3 day week, the wonder that was a nationalized car industry, (Austin Allegro anyone?), and the reputation of being the sick man of Europe. The Thatcher and Major governments were by no means perfect, but to use them as whipping posts for the current situation is a facile analysis.

[deniser]

What about all the Brits who work in Europe or use up the resources of the health service in Spain?

Either we're in the EU or not.

These rights are reciprocal and some of these workers might well need to take advantage of the fact that they can work in other countries when Britain's recession turns out worse than anyone else's (as they are predicting).

[directmarketingadvice]

What about all the Brits who work in Europe or use up the resources of the health service in Spain?

Either we're in the EU or not.

Exactly.

If we were to only allow UK workers to work in the UK, wouldn't that result in tit-for-tat and mean all the working brits abroad would get repatriated back to blighty?

What about someone like me? I have (and have had) clients who are based abroad. Would they have to stop working with me and hire a marketer from their own country?

Steve

[Tej]

What about someone like me? I have (and have had) clients who are based abroad. Would they have to stop working with me and hire a marketer from their own country?

Steve

LOl.. Steve.. from some of the posts I have read, that might free you to be able to take on work in this Country:).. you are in great demand.. and very good luck to you.

[lockie]

Considering how much money i have made recently from non natives how bigger a deal is it ? I find polish customers a joy to deal with.Polite exact about what they want and pay the going rate without trying to knock you down once the job is done.

Im actually starting think of targeting the "polish pound" as they cetainly have the money to spend.

I suppose it depends how you look at the situation. Ive seen many foreign guys come into my trade to make a fast buck but also seen plenty of native guys do the same. Would those people still be protesting if southerners went up north looking for the jobs ?

Did anyone complain back in the day when our builders were going to germany for work ?

[NCA]

The Italian contractor should open its doors and accept job applications from british workers. A requirement of employment being that the workers must speak fluent Italian.

[tom111]

The reason for the "british jobs for british workers" thing is that fool Brown. He has brought out all the jingoist and protectionist feelings that are inevitable during a recession.

It's the last thing we really need.

Recessions are dangerous times, particularly ones like the one we are in at the moment. It seems like we are in a phase where civil unrest is increasing. There are minor strikes and protests all over europe, which are going to just make matters worse, I just hope we don't end up with riots.

[thebigIAM]

Thank you to everyone who responded. I'm always interested to read other people's opinions even (or maybe especially) when they are different to my own.

Have a feeling this dispute will escalate.

[Dawg]

Thank you for bringing it up, BigIam. There isn't enough info. to get a real feel is there? As you ask, why are they staying on those boats? Is there any proof that they are been paid at UK rates? Something is whiffy. It could be dodgy dealing or it could be old fashioned crap management. Either way it's understandable that, at a local level, people are very pissed off.

[FireFleur]

It bears repeating, but this is British reaction to Italian protectionism, the jobs were only being offered to Italians.

Protectionism is rampant at the moment throughout Europe, we are bit slow on the uptake, and so are left reacting to these moves whilst we get to see the Italian workers give the finger to us.

Striking and demonstrating is a right in a democracy, and to be fair is a capitalist move, people are not ill educated nowadays and they can see the huge profits being made off their labour, not going into their pockets.

Perhaps they would be better off with that company removed, and they could use the land for a better purpose, that would enrich them.

Sometimes it is the capitalist move to strike, it moves ownership around.

[sysops]

Striking and demonstrating is a right in a democracy, and to be fair is a capitalist move, people are not ill educated nowadays and they can see the huge profits being made off their labour, not going into their pockets.

I suspect you'd see it quite differently if you had employees, and they decided to strike because the company you hired to carry out your heating system maintenance was not to their liking.

In fact, I'm willing to bet you'd really feel like firing your ungrateful SOB employees for wanting to interfere with your management decisions.

[mke]

True or not, sysops, being part of the same community as my employees may make me feel part of the same human entity. Theoretical beancounting may look smart but in reality it lacks humanity.

This thread has a strong reek of tarring every none business owner with a somewhat Daily Mail templated and uniformly damning brush. That can't have any serious debating significance.

[Dawg]

From the FT (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f1989aae-ef17-11dd-bbb5-0000779fd2ac.html):

"the award of a contract to IREM, an Italian engineering company, which the strikers claim intends to bring in its own staff from Portugual and Italy."

From the Groan (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jan/31/oil-and-gas-companies-trade-unions-strikes):

"around 300 new jobs were taken by Italian and Portuguese workers."

So a mix of nationalities will be there and "the jobs were only being offered to Italians.." is not true.

One thing I've noticed tho' is that these 300 jobs are "new jobs". That rather puts paid to the justification advanced by Total that there were no suitable skilled people in the area at the time the contract was awarded. The skills are there now.


BTW: Are you seriously advancing the idea that: "they could use the land for a better purpose, that would enrich them." On a 400 acre industrial brown site with 3000 workers? Making scented candles?

[sysops]

True or not, sysops, being part of the same community as my employees may make me feel part of the same human entity. Theoretical beancounting may look smart but in reality it lacks humanity.

You have no idea about running a business.

[easyasit]

It does not matter who runs this country. Corruption will always lead. It just a continued for of capitalism that plagues the working man, extracting as much as possible from him until he is on his knee. Every govt does this, regardless of its label.
The capitalist machine has always been the same just another form of slavery in disguise to which we are all slaves to. The capitalist way is to get the mostest for the cheapest, which especially during these tough times means that labour comes from eastern europe and of course call centres go to india where someone who can barely speak the queens spoken english is calling you regarding an overdue payment on your bank account.
Like it or not too, the conservative did do a lot of damage to the nation as a whole. Labour has done little to reverse it unfortunately.
I will never vote labour again


The simple fact though is though they say British jobs for British people, how many British people want them?
I know of many people who are children of the state, never worked in their lives. We cultivate this society.
Political correctiveness has now also removed our right to complain about the system, its now considered racist. Yet this principle seems to be one sided to.

Like it or not this is the result of mankinds greed, and it will be our undoing.
Getting the same job done by foreign workers for less. This has resulted in a modern form of slavery.
But like any other ecomonic fashion/trend it will pass on i am sure.
People replaced by computers and robots next?

[mke]

Bo****ks, sysops. Been managing people, enterprises and systems for years. Sacked people. Scrapped systems. Doesn't mean I'm impervious to the human aspect of either and I have little respect for "hard men" who pretend otherwise. Met 'em all round the negotiating table as well as on the rugby pitch when I was still young enough to do it. They were/are no harder than me in either sphere. If you grew up in some of the places such an attitude could be considered realistic, fine. i don't believe you were. Your fellow human being, recognise it or not, is as important to you as to anyone else.

[FireFleur]

You have to have grounds to fire employees.

If the strike is done in a lawful manner, then you may not have grounds to fire them, that is the cost of business in a democracy to someone who wants to lord it over others I suppose.

Much simpler to contract with people, then it is to employ or be employed.

But, say you do fire all your striking employees, what will you do? Do you have the talent or the capability to work on without them? Will they just form a cooperative and go after the same market sector, all quite possible.

And let's remember that the employer is generally in debt to the employees, you trying to turn a dime on their work and taking a couple of weeks to give them their money, I think when a employee says 'Jump, Sysops!', you should quite meekly say 'How high Boss?'.

[Cornish Steve]

Striking...is a right in a democracy
I've never understood why. It's not needed, and it just wrecks companies. If employees don't like a company, they should just up and leave and work for companies that respect their skills and experience. If many employees did that, the company would have to change its management style or improve working conditions or increase wages until it stems the flow of people leaving.

I've never understood the need for strikes, and I most certainly don't see them as a right. This forum is frequented mostly by those starting or running small businesses; strikes are anathema to the entrepreneurial spirit needed to start and run such companies. If I invest everything I have to start a company, risking my home, my family's security, and my future, why should my efforts be thwarted by workers on strike? Without my efforts and sacrifice, they wouldn't have those positions in the first place. All the arguments advanced in support of strikes assume huge corporations and greedy managers and poor workers who are trodden under foot. That's far from being a description of 99.9% of companies, managers, and workers.

[Tej]

I've never understood why. It's not needed, and it just wrecks companies. If employees don't like a company, they should just up and leave and work for companies that respect their skills and experience. If many employees did that, the company would have to change its management style or improve working conditions or increase wages until it stems the flow of people leaving.

I've never understood the need for strikes, and I most certainly don't see them as a right. This forum is frequented mostly by those starting or running small businesses; strikes are anathema to the entrepreneurial spirit needed to start and run such companies. If I invest everything I have to start a company, risking my home, my family's security, and my future, why should my efforts be thwarted by workers on strike? Without my efforts and sacrifice, they wouldn't have those positions in the first place. All the arguments advanced in support of strikes assume huge corporations and greedy managers and poor workers who are trodden under foot. That's far from being a description of 99.9% of companies, managers, and workers.

Easier said than done. They still have to find jobs to feed their families etc. And whats the guarantee that another company would be any different. There would be no need for employment law.. Unions etc.

Should work both ways doesn't it?

With the laws as they stand, its a nightmare with regard to employing people. So many things to think of, apart from the costs. Easy to hire.. minefield to fire. Get taken to a tribunal at the drop of a hat!!

Apologies If I am being too simple.

[directmarketingadvice]

According to the guardian:

Adolfo Urso, Italy's undersecretary for economic development, yesterday claimed the protests "are the product of an ignorance which verges on racism".

Good way to calm things down, Adolfo! :rolleyes::eek:

Though, to be fair, if this was British workers being opposed in Italy, UK politicians (and workers) would be kicking up a stink.

Steve

[britluv]

Surely we should be entitled to a job in our own country if we are skilled and available? Giving the jobs to the Italians, or whoever is demanding the lowest wages, will only result in lower wages overall, leading to less spending, leading to more on the dole, leading to less spending...

[vvaannmmaann]

As I understand it,as we and the Italiens are "Europeans" we are legally entitled to work in each others countries,is this correct?

[britluv]

Yes, but that's not the argument. The argument is that Brits should be given priority in their own country.

[directmarketingadvice]

Surely we should be entitled to a job in our own country if we are skilled and available?

Entitled?

I don't think so.

It's this sense of "I'm entitled" that's helped get us into the situation we're in.

(people are "entitled" to be able to buy a house... no matter how little money they make and whether or not they have any savings)

If you want to be "entitled to a job", I'd recommend you join the communist party, as job entitlement can only come with a "planned economy", not in capitalist one.

Steve

[directmarketingadvice]

Yes, but that's not the argument. The argument is that Brits should be given priority in their own country.

And then what?

Then all the other countries will act the same way and Brits won't be able to get jobs abroad.

And, will it stop there?

Probably not.

Governments will pass laws that say their companies can't have facilities abroad if the same facilities could be built at home.

And, as a result, the Total plant in Lincolnshire will be moved to France... and it'll be "French jobs for French workers" instead of the "French jobs for British workers" that the strikers want to see.

Steve

[britluv]

What would you say if it was your job been taken away if a contract was awarded to an Italian company? I can understand your argument, but right now it's 'needs must', and I have to fight for survival.

[britluv]

I think the reason everyone is getting so upset about is the fact the foreign workers are undercutting us. If we are to readjust our wage base, this would result in a lower standard of living for us all, not just in this sector.

It's a difficult but interesting argument, and I know how I would react if it was British workers being shunned in Italy!

[directmarketingadvice]

What would you say if it was your job been taken away if a contract was awarded to an Italian company?

People's jobs weren't taken away. These were new contract positions for a construction project.

I can understand your argument, but right now it's 'needs must'

You're refusing to even address the knock-on effects.

Right now, you're argument is that you're willing to take away the rights of overseas workers because it's in your own short term interests.

Then what?

What happens when that plays out and you have to pay the price for creating a two-tier system? Will it have been worth it?

IMO, no.

As I said, these workers don't want "British jobs for British people", because they're not working for a British company.

What they want is "French jobs for British people" and they're refusing to admit the knock-on cost to this country's workforce will be huge levels of unemployment as foreign companies start to withdraw from the UK.

What do you want:

(a) European companies in the UK employing Europeans (the vast majority of whom are British)

or

(b) No European companies in the UK

Pick one or the other 'cause you can't have your cake and eat it.

Steve

[directmarketingadvice]

I think the reason everyone is getting so upset about is the fact the foreign workers are undercutting us. If we are to readjust our wage base, this would result in a lower standard of living

From the guardian today:

International comparison of gross average monthly salaries paid in the construction sector

UK £2,160

Portugal £614

Germany £1,806

Italy £1,386

France £1,046

Based on 2005 data collected by the International Labour Organisation and using currency exchange rates of the time

Obviously, the echange rate is very different today - and we're not going through the housebuilding bubble anymore - but it makes interesting reading.

Steve

[britluv]

I know what I'd like and it's the same as the vast majority of people in this country. I'd like the European companies to be investing in the UK, employing British people for the good jobs, and topping up with immigrants for the jobs Brits can't do (or for the jobs no British person wants!). That's the ideal situation, uncomfortable though it sounds.
That way, any immigrants coming into this country are incentivised to work hard, not just come for thefantastic health care and benefits.

[Eagle]

The core of the problem here is that successive governments have paid people (benefits) to sit on their ass. Take them away and your average lazy bum will soon get to the farm and do a day's honest work.

[britluv]

Yes!! That's a big part of it. Benefits culture, is too great a temptation for all but the higher earners (£40000+) today.

[britluv]

I on the whole have no problem with migrant workers and a big problem with lifelong dolies and believe that the long term dolies should have their benefits stopped and be forced into the low skilled sector: the burger bars and pizza joints, etc. But at the same time we do need to send migrant workers home who ain't contributing a great deal in terms of skills as we all know a lot of the earnings go out of the country. We need to be clear we are not being racist or facist but we are being realist and tryin to preserve our own economy, or in the future there wont be any jobs for the British or migrant workers at all. This government has no or very little leverage when it comes to earning money as we rely heavily on importing goods cos this government sold off most if not all of our money rich export options. Now we are at the mercy of the rest of the world as we are an island with not much to offer the rest of the world now. " quoted from proudowners

[britluv]

Let's not forget that the original post came about as a result of the protests and strikes across the country. The contract for the work in contention was tendered from the USA, then contracted out to an Italian company - how much profit are each of these making out of it and who foots the eventual cost of it? Yes, you guessed it, the consumer! And have we not got the required skills in abundance here in this country? I think we have. We are in danger of being overrun with immigrant workers who by sheer numbers will devalue our wages and conditions of work, something you will no doubt be aware of. This will only get worse if you agree that it's ok to give jonny foreigner a job before our own workforce who now find themselves unemployed due to the greed of the banking fraternity and their greed for inflated pay.

[directmarketingadvice]

we do need to send migrant workers home who ain't contributing a great deal in terms of skills

we are not being racist or facist but we are being realist

We are in danger of being overrun with immigrant workers

it's ok to give jonny foreigner a job before our own workforce

So, you're not being racist?

I'd like the European companies to be investing in the UK, employing British people for the good jobs, and topping up with immigrants for the jobs Brits can't do (or for the jobs no British person wants!).

So, basically, you want to take, take, take.

Your offer to the foreign companies is:

"Come here, build facilities, pay British workers inflated salaries, pump huge amounts of money into local economies... and, in return, we'll allow some of your workers to come here and do the **** jobs with the **** salaries that none of us want to do."

And, because they've decided that your offer is lousy, you want to pass some laws to make sure they comply.

The day you pass your law will be the last day a foreign company builds a facility in Britain.

Then you can gripe about foreigners all the way to the dole queue...

Steve

[britluv]

I'm not talking about passing or changing any laws. I understand the fundamentals of the EU treaty. I just think that maybe companies ought to think about treating UK workers with preference in their own country - not because of the law but because of their loyalty to the people of that country.

[britluv]

Like I mentioned above, I am not racist - but I am looking out for number 1 - myself, my family and the people around me.

The only people who benefit from this large-scale economic migration are unscrupulous employers who pay Scrooge wages to workers who are prepared to tolerate poor pay and squalid, overcrowded or unsuitable conditions, so that they can either accrue meagre savings or send sterling abroad to their families. The native taxpayers will never recoup their losses through paying benefits to British workers denied a living wage, adequate housing, education or health provision because of the needs/demands of migrant workers and their indigent families. We should boot them out, close our borders and re-establish a fairer Britain for the hard-pressed British now! Excuses from this government will no longer wash, and the Tories actively connive to keep this dire situation going to benefit their big business pals. Unless you want more of the same, better start thinking the unthinkable.

[britluv]

I'm beginning to change my views actually. As a member of the UK living and working in one of its constituent parts, I am beginning to realise that if I do not believe in the idea of the EU, then I cannot rely on the concept of the UK. Scots, Welsh, Irish and English are living and working all over the place, without making this link. Some - like I was - are bemoaning these 'immigrants', people who travel cross-border to work for a living, some working harder and giving more than the indigenous population.

Where does that leave the 'undercutting' argument? How does it affect my support for the power plant workers? I hope anyone reading this has been able to have clearer thought processes than I, and perhaps it has helped someone to clarify their own mind.

[directmarketingadvice]

I'm not talking about passing or changing any laws.

In that case, I must have misunderstood this:

we do need to send migrant workers home who ain't contributing a great deal in terms of skills

which sounded like forced repatriation.

And, from your latest post:

We should boot them out

I've lived abroad. I was an immigrant and proud of it. And, I'm glad to say the good people of France treated me with fairness and treated me as an equal.

I've also visited Italy and liked the people there, too. And, in both Scotland and France, I've had Italian friends.

The idea we should be discriminating against them appals me.

These people are our friends and neighbours and should be treated accordingly. Not told to **** off any time a Brit wants a job.

I am not racist - but I am looking out for number 1

If so, you're not looking very far.

Because I'm looking out for #1, too... and what you want is a disaster.

You want the country to burn bridges with its closest allies, you want to chase out foreign companies and investors, you want to give up your own right to work abroad, undermine your ability to sell abroad, you'll increase your own cost of living and the country will end up broke.

Why? Because you're too greedy to share the wealth with foreigners.

Steve

[scargill]

when the economy wasnt doing badly, people were not complaining. We need these foreigners because British people dont want to work for a low wage. Sorry but thats my opinion. The strikes are ridiculous- what is this, the 1970's?

Well actually as you mention it - as someone who remembers the winter of discontent clearly (I recall my dad went out and bought a generator as he was sick of being at the beck and call of the miners) I'm seeing a lot of parallels with then and now. The current financial crisis has certainly made things a lot worse but the government has been heading for a repeat of that era for some time.

[britluv]

Thanks Steve,
Your discussion this morning has made me really think about my stance on this subject.

[mke]

Wow. This is late night pub talk: too much beer, too much disinformation and too much vitriol. Straight out of the Daily Mail "let's whip up some reactionary hysteria" pages. There is no low wage element here. The guys doing the job are being well paid. They are probably on barges for their own safety, so good thinking by their employer or Total.

Within a number of sectors, especially civil and chemical engineering, there are companies from around the world who bid for contracts all over the globe. Over time they build up teams of skilled artisans who they can rely upon to do the job. It's that simple. There are British companies who do exactly that.

Quite understandably, these teams, when they land on foreign soil, are resented by the local population as "stealing" jobs which should be for them. At a more regional scale, take a look at the local resentments when a team of Yorkshire cable layers or a team of Scottish steel erectors arrive in your area. The teams may come from other places, this is simply in illustration. Not as visible resentments as in Lincolnshire today, but they're there.

So do we stop such international and inter-regional elements of trade? Of course not. Does it give us the right to call the locals, however misguided in their accusations, unskilled, idle, wasters, sponges on society, threats to our businesses and our homes? So why on earth are you spouting such unmitigated, vitriolic nonsense?

[Cornish Steve]

Yes, but that's not the argument. The argument is that Brits should be given priority in their own country.
OK, all you English: Out of Cornwall. For years, locals have had to move away or overseas. There are few well-paid jobs, and the cost of housing is ridiculous because of the invasion of up-country folk - with their strange accents and hoity-toity ways.

The Cornish should be given priority in their own country. Cornish jobs for Cornish workers. All of you - get out!

And the Scots want you out too. And the Welsh. And the Manx. Go back to your own country and stop stealing our jobs.

[Cornish Steve]

Then you can gripe about foreigners all the way to the dole queue...
The bigger picture is even more frightening, and we ought to wake up and act instead of griping.

Fundamentally, what's the difference between the British workforce and that of any other country? Education, skills, productivity, and economy.

Right now, our levels of education are on the decline. Anyone who's ever visited India or China knows their obsession with learning. Just look at the number of students from these countries in our universities. We can no longer claim to lead the world in our level of education.

What about skills? In this flat world, companies collaborate on many projects, and more and more work gets outsources. The skills that we used to claim as unique are now available in most countries.

Our productivity used to be phenomenal - a combination of high automation and the Protestant work ethic. Nowadays, British companies face huge overheads: minimum wage, entitlements galore, a welfare system that acts as a disincentive to work, and the types of event we're discussing here. The productivity of other work forces is on the rise.

The flexibility of our economy and the creativity of the workforce used to be impressive. Having wasted much of our resources on expensive welfare and social programs, our economy is no longer in such good shape.

So forget this little incident with Italian workers. If we don't cut our welfare give-aways, reduce regulations on employers, re-evaluate so-called rights, expect everyone to work hard, and be obsessed with learning, we're not only going to lose millions of jobs but become a third-world has-been.

We tend to think this can't happen because "we're British". The truth is, though, that there's nothing special about that. We became a world power because of hard work and a spirit of enterprise, and they seem to be dwindling rather fast.

[Dawg]

We became a world power because of hard work and a spirit of enterprise

Didn't trade in opium and having a few gunboats help a bit? Or are you including that, (quite legitimately), in "spirit of enterprise"?

The rot set in when they changed the name from 'War Office' to 'Ministry of Defence'. Back then war really was commerce by other means. (To paraphrase Clausewitz). Lost that spirit, lost the empire.

[tom111]

So, you're not being racist?

Steve

Technically, he's quite right. he's not racist, he's xenophobic. British isn't a race, we have people from all kinds of ethnicities and cultures who are British citizens.

[directmarketingadvice]

Didn't trade in opium and having a few gunboats help a bit? Or are you including that, (quite legitimately), in "spirit of enterprise"?

The rot set in when they changed the name from 'War Office' to 'Ministry of Defence'. Back then war really was commerce by other means. (To paraphrase Clausewitz). Lost that spirit, lost the empire.

Watch your mouth, immigrant.

Britluv will send the goons round to "evaluate" your contribution to the country... you could be on the next boat back... you better remember to get a cholera shot...

Steve

PS All this notion of people being deported from Britain reminds me of Bill Hicks' "I'm Jack the ripper" routine.

Summary: it was about a group of British petty criminals hearing about Australia, so they pretend they've committed worse crimes than they actually have.

"Let me get this straight... You keep the ****ty food and the ****ty weather and we get the Great Barrier Reef and lobsters the size of canoes? ...I'm Jack the Ripper!"

"No, I'm Jack the Ripper!"

[dave_n]

the issue never was about employing foreign workers...the issue was in the fact that Total took on a contractor who said they would not employ UK workers under any circumstance.
Under EU laws it is illegal to specifically discount any particular member states' workers.

[dave_n]

as an aside i do agree with britluv regarding the value-add and contribution of immigrants.
I don't think we should allow anyone in to the UK who does not add to the value of it's society or economy....what's the point?
On the other hand I'd like to see a lot of British born 'leeches' moved elsewhere!

[ken_uk]

I dont think the politicians would be to happy about being deported for being leeches ;)

[KM-Tiger]

The Cornish should be given priority in their own country. Cornish jobs for Cornish workers. All of you - get out!

What a great idea - English jobs for the English! So all the foreigners will have to leave.

We've got to start somewhere - how about right at the top...

[mke]

So does one have to separate one's hise-hold, wife to Germany, hubby to Greece, then?

[directmarketingadvice]

What a great idea - English jobs for the English! So all the foreigners will have to leave.

We've got to start somewhere - how about right at the top...

Oh, no. He's English now. He supports your national football team.

(and his favourite goal ever - in the entire history of football - was Gazza v Scotland)

So, you're stuck with him.

Steve

[britluv]

What about working animals?
I know of a german shepherd used for security in the factory down the road.

[Subbynet]

There are some interesting arguments being made here.

I think the biggest problem in the EU for free trade, is the fact it's not easy to bring about free movement of the people. People lord free movement as being the ability to get yourself out of trouble, they say that it is fine for someone Polish to come here to work, because you can go there to work.... is that true?

How easy is it for someone to emigrate or work away for a period of time? I can tell you it is not easy on so many levels other than business, and being a child when my father was working away in Norway, America, India, Australia, and dozens of other places, he could only return roughly every six weeks, and this places an enormous strain on family and marriage.

If we cannot have British jobs for British workers, then what are we left with? We are left with a forced situation in which one (or both) of the parents must separate from the family to earn money, or the whole family must be uprooted and moved to a new country, or the family stays where it is but falls on its only other option -the dole.

It's often said that we are in one big free market but this isn't true on so many levels, we are in multiple markets, each with different laws, and wide varying differences in monetary value.

The strong value of the pound over the last 10 years has made it near impossible to be competitive abroad for most engineering and production-based firms compared to our near neighbours. The French and Germans our massively more protectionist than we are, who while we adhered to the capitalist guidelines set by the EU, many companies in the EU and again especially key companies like power, gas, telecommunications, and motor vehicles have been directly backed by their governments. This is not true of the UK government. (Apart from now)

Education is a big problem, it's a free market, it's a common market right, we are one in the same are we not? Put simply we are not, in this country if you cannot speak English you would never achieve a decent position, you will always be part of minimum wage manual labour, this has been proven because I've spoken to people from other countries who have great qualifications but are working here as a cleaners because they can't grasp English properly (although their English is still 100 times better than me speaking in their tongue). The same will happen to our educated Brits abroad!

I can think of many reasons why a free movement, free trade policy will not work, and 99% of the reasons come down to basic human nature - security, companionship, family etc. Until you can move your life in a box, you'll have to accept people can't move so freely.

[mke]

I understand your sentiments, Subbynet, but your arguments are grossly oversimplified. It is difficult for businesses, forget about size, to justify the expense and possible problems of taking on staff for specific jobs for short periods of time. That is even more so now, with the plethora of GB and EU employment legislation. But there are rarely enough jobs in one country for a contractor to set up to fill that gap. So they build up a labour force and travel. Most of the employees are permanent employees from their own base area, with the odd one or two picked up on their travels to fill occasional gaps. Another key factor, they are permanent employees. The vacancies have not been advertised in Italy or anywhere else. Those people were already on that employer's books. What some idiot junior manager says on site, whilst inflammatory is, in fact, irrelevant to the facts.

The problem here, it seems, is a lack of advance PR by Total. In my humble opinion, where an enterprise/employer, public or private sector, is a key dominant economic force in an area it is in its own interests to smooth the way for its proposed activities. Not a legal requirement, but see what happens when they fail to do so. Had they done this, saying to the local population in advance that they were offering a tender, locals feeling they had the skills to do the job could have got together and put a bid in. If that bid failed, it would be on fair and reasonable grounds, so no ensuing chaos. The local grouping, regardless of failing or succeeding for that bid, have the possibility to stick together and bid for further contracts elsewhere.

[tom111]

But Subbynet, all those problems exist for a Polish or French person coming to England too, don't they? For a true free market, what's needed is a common language and culture (not necessarily race). Europe isn't a free market, but it is still nice to have the option of moving abroad if you want it. The European Treaties seek to establish "ever closer union" but that doesn't mean we are a nation state yet, or have much in common with our neighbours.

One of the most shocking things is that it is possible for someone to go through education in Britain without being fluent in any foreign language.

[Subbynet]

I understand your sentiments, Subbynet, but your arguments are grossly oversimplified.

I don't agree... I think the problems are very simple. I know quite a bit about people having to travel to work, from my own family experiences, to actually having to find people (hence where orginally the name Subbynet came from!)... I made a thread on this forum a few weeks ago about dealing with Subbies.

The problems are no different nationwide, as they're for the whole of the EU.

This isn't a PR problem, its more fundamental than that, its just this time, this company is in the focus, but many others are doing the exact same.

[Subbynet]

But Subbynet, all those problems exist for a Polish or French person coming to England too, don't they?

No they don't... Its economically viable for them to come here, but this isn't so true the other way around. (Obviously the value of the pound has changed since)

[mke]

Indeed the concepts are simple. Oversimplified was the wrong word to use. I dealt with the nationwide and EU comparison earlier in this thread.

Yes, indeed it is very much about PR. Localised to a specific target audience rather than in the wider sense, but PR nevertheless. The fact that lots of other companies are committing the same sin without such a cold blast of bad publicity doesn't alter that. They, too, should be smoothing their own way.

My statements do not nullify or even subordinate your comments regarding the difficulties for the traveling workers and their families. Rather, I am looking at cause and effect in this particular rather than at the wider associated issues.

[directmarketingadvice]

if you cannot speak English you would never achieve a decent position, you will always be part of minimum wage manual labour, this has been proven because I've spoken to people from other countries who have great qualifications but are working here as a cleaners because they can't grasp English properly (although their English is still 100 times better than me speaking in their tongue). The same will happen to our educated Brits abroad!.

Two points:

(1) We're in a really lucky position that we have a language that travels. When I lived in Paris, I knew some lawyers (English, Australian) with good jobs who could barely speak French.

Try getting a job in the UK if you only speak French.

(2) The fiance of a friend of mine is Spanish. When he came to Scotland, he could hardly speak English and ended up with rubbish jobs and a tiny room in a crowded flat.

He stuck it out long enough to improve his English. Now he works for the council installing and fixing their computers.

(he calls this having gone from having a "job for an immigrant" to having a "job for a Scottish person")

He's making good money and lives in a one bedroom flat with his fiance.

And, he tells me this is normal: people come in at the bottom and, if they're committed and work hard, they pick up the language and have the standard of living the locals have.

So, so much for:

"if you cannot speak English you would never achieve a decent position, you will always be part of minimum wage manual labour"

Languages can be learned. And, for those that make the effort, doors open.

Steve

[FireFleur]

Good thoughts, there Subbynet, the problem is we don't have a free market.

And good points by dave_n, this protectionism was started by the Italian company.

There is always going to be the ability to get work in other countries, if a company wants your services then they will hire you, but it is normally done for professional jobs. Not jobs, which require a day in day out presence at a fixed location. And it is normally done for the airy fairy style jobs, of marketing, development and finance, not industrial jobs, in industries that are critical to the working of a nation.

If all the politicians, civil servants, developers, designers, marketers, business owners, all dropped dead overnight, the world would still go on, and those left would all probably be richer.

But, if all the farmers, power workers, factory workers went up to the pearly gates we would be left in a very precarious position. You cannot feed yourself or provide enough heat for yourself in winter by quiping some weasley marketing phrase, cuting some elegant code, pushing some dowdy pixels, or counting your little virtual beans.

The main problem I think this highlights, is that this island cannot support itself, because too much critical industry has been sold off.

Renationalisation of critical industries might very well be a solution here.

[Subbynet]

So, so much for:

"if you cannot speak English you would never achieve a decent position, you will always be part of minimum wage manual labour"

Languages can be learned. And, for those that make the effort, doors open.

No it still holds true, but your friend changed and opened a door for himself - good on him. Saying that I bet he didn't have to support a home and family, and you can't just mandate a policy of all should learn another language - thats never going to work for the majority.

[Comspec]

Without reading all the posts on this thread, I'll add a couple of thoughts this whole furore has given me:

1) This 'British Jobs for British Workers' headline is going to add fuel to an increasing racism which will become more and more to the fore as the recession bites. This has to be carefully managed, as it is a step backwards for the country.
2) Large strikes hurt companies, and that is definitely not something we want to be doing throughout a recession.
3) It has always been the way of this Italian contract. We had 1500 over here for a couple of years working on a Power Station upgrade, made up of Italians and Portugese. The few who have actually stayed behind are great lads, who are very willing to work. I know a few personally, and they are definitely a good addition to our local workforce.

We just gotta be careful, we cannot have it both ways. If we want to be a part of this whole EU thing, then we gotta embrace it, otherwise we need to step back out of it and make our own way as a country.

[voiceswf]

Two points:

(1) We're in a really lucky position that we have a language that travels. When I lived in Paris, I knew some lawyers (English, Australian) with good jobs who could barely speak French.

Try getting a job in the UK if you only speak French.

(2) The fiance of a friend of mine is Spanish. When he came to Scotland, he could hardly speak English and ended up with rubbish jobs and a tiny room in a crowded flat.

He stuck it out long enough to improve his English. Now he works for the council installing and fixing their computers.

(he calls this having gone from having a "job for an immigrant" to having a "job for a Scottish person")

He's making good money and lives in a one bedroom flat with his fiance.

And, he tells me this is normal: people come in at the bottom and, if they're committed and work hard, they pick up the language and have the standard of living the locals have.

So, so much for:

"if you cannot speak English you would never achieve a decent position, you will always be part of minimum wage manual labour"

Languages can be learned. And, for those that make the effort, doors open.

Steve

I totally agree with Steve; especially "And for those that make the effort, doors open." End Game ;)

Kind Regards,

Voiceswf

[Cornish Steve]

this protectionism was started by the Italian company.
It's not protectionism - it's standard business practice. I came to the US working for a well-known British company. Whenever they won big and important contracts, they'd bring over lots of employees from London. This was true everywhere in the world. They are not unique in this: British companies with operations overseas tend to recruit many people from Britain. What would happen to our economy if workers in all those countries jeopardised those contracts by going on strike? As others have mentioned, we're all too quick to 'take' without being willing to 'give'.

[FireFleur]

Italy is in the EU, they shouldn't be doing this.

The US and UK agreement is actually based on if you cannot find a local to do the work, so again what is happening there could be illegal, the jobs should be going to US nationals.

The thing is, it is very messy, the Italian company is using protectionist measures, not allowed under EU law. The response that the jobs should go to the British is equally not allowed under EU law, and both the UK and the US tend to flout their own agreements.

Obviously it is simpler and more economical to employ local people for a big power refinery, they have the skills in that area, and they wouldn't need to fly them in.

[mke]

At the risk of banging my head against a wall, I repeat my doubt that any new workers have been recruited. My strong suspicion is that the contract winner is using their own existing employees. No protectionism. It's a contract, no new jobs available. Specific remit, workforce well practiced in fulfilling that remit. That is what they've employed the people for, not for this contract but much earlier. They trust those employees and those employees do what they are asked to do wherever they are asked to do it, all to that or very similar remit. So ban them and stop British companies doing the same thing elsewhere. Or stop moaning and let them get on with it.

[Chris H]

Can we knock the cries of 'racism' on the head? It's just media spin. Listen to what the unions are saying and you'll see the nationality/ethnicity of the 'foreign' workers isn't the issue.

The jobs that they're talking about are ones where British workers have the skills. These jobs are also not company specific, so there's no need to import a lot of employees because they 'know the company'.

And Steve,
As others have mentioned, we're all too quick to 'take' without being willing to 'give'.

the UK takes this idiotic approach of following the rules when the rest of the EU simply ignores them. Too often we seek to stick to the 'rules' whilst the other member nations walk all over us. It's about time that the government stuck up for us.

[KM-Tiger]

Obviously it is simpler and more economical to employ local people for a big power refinery, they have the skills in that area, and they wouldn't need to fly them in.

Obvious? Experienced engineering contractor talking?

As i understand it this is a specialist contract and I would guess the Italian Co will have quoted the job to use their own people who have both the skills and experience necessary to return a profit. Using an unknown and untested local labour force could sink them. If I was the Italian company I wouldn't. And doubtless there will be penalty clauses in the contract. Would you take that risk unless you had your own trusted people to hand? These are not McJobs where anyone can do them.

In my manufacturing days we did contracts all over Europe and always took our own workforce. Forced to use local labour, the jobs would not have been feasible.

[FireFleur]

Well, I say we go with the law. The jobs should be opened to those who wish to apply, and the application should be allowed at the place the work is to be done.

This is going to happen across the world, people will want jobs, and if the jobs have not been given under the law then they will want them reopened for application.

It appears that when the good times roll people turn a blind eye, but the problem is when the depression hits it will cause a bit of disruption, and potentially some HR bods being in the drink.

We didn't have to join the EU, and before joining the EU you could have worked abroad, but when a depression hits people get returned to their countries, it is just a fact of life. At the moment you can get a job anywhere in the EU, if you obtain the job in a legal and fair manner, without discrimination. And it is a minefield of legal problems now for employment, they will probably have to compensate the Italian workers, which I would feel a little more sympathy for, if the BBC hadn't shown one giving the finger.

[mke]

What jobs, FireFleur? A contract was won. By a business with employees to do the job. Where, show me, are the new jobs? Where and when were they advertised?

[FireFleur]

Well it should be quite interesting, but they will be looking into when those people were employed by the Italian company, if it was done directly after wining the contract then they are going to run into problems.

Do you have the list and dates when all these people were employed?

[Comspec]

Personally I use the best people to do a job. If that means I opt for my more trusted existing contract employees to move onto our next job, then that's who I'd use. I don't think the Italian company is doing anything different than most would do.

As for the 'cries of rascism' someone referred to... I mentioned only that this situation will add fuel to the rascism in the country, nothing to do directly with the situation itself or its root causes.

People will look on this as something else to beat the foreign workers on the head with.... anyways are we not all in the EU now, so are Italians not part of our EU nationality?

[Cornish Steve]

The US and UK agreement is actually based on if you cannot find a local to do the work, so again what is happening there could be illegal, the jobs should be going to US nationals.
Forget what agreements say; let me tell it the way it is. British managers trust British workers. There are plenty of American workers capable of doing the same work just as well, but the culture is different and British managers prefer to use British workers.

I don't know how many times I've heard British managers tell me that American managers are useless - and American managers tell me that British managers are useless. The truth is that our cultures are very different in the workplace. British managers know what they can expect from British workers, so they bring them over in droves. It's the same with French companies in the US, and German companies in the US, and Japanese companies in the US, and Israeli companies in the US. It's almost a knee-jerk reaction: When you win an important and prestigious contract, bring in the people you trust who work the way you expect. I suspect the Italian company is doing exactly the same thing in this situation. Add to this all the rules and regulations and entitlements expected by local workers in Britain and who'd want to hire locals for a specific project?

[FireFleur]

We shall see as the recession bites deeper, the US have enough lawyers and the more out of work, the more people will be asking the questions.

Could be seeing you in Penzance sometime soon Steve :)

[estwig]

Forget what agreements say; let me tell it the way it is. British managers trust British workers. There are plenty of American workers capable of doing the same work just as well, but the culture is different and British managers prefer to use British workers.

I don't know how many times I've heard British managers tell me that American managers are useless - and American managers tell me that British managers are useless. The truth is that our cultures are very different in the workplace. British managers know what they can expect from British workers, so they bring them over in droves. It's the same with French companies in the US, and German companies in the US, and Japanese companies in the US, and Israeli companies in the US. It's almost a knee-jerk reaction: When you win an important and prestigious contract, bring in the people you trust who work the way you expect. I suspect the Italian company is doing exactly the same thing in this situation. Add to this all the rules and regulations and entitlements expected by local workers in Britain and who'd want to hire locals for a specific project?

I suspect what the Italians are thinking by now is.....

S*d employing any of them English muppets, overpaid morons who have wild cat, unofficial, undemocratic strikes at the drop of hat, racist idiots.

That's what the Italians and probably the rest of the World think of us right now, shame on the people doing this, trying to get British jobs for British people. Short sighted idiots.

[Cornish Steve]

trying to get British jobs for British people.
Most people in Britain are employed by small businesses, and this is where the big majority of job growth comes from. If we want to increase the number of British jobs for British people, makes things easier for individuals to start their own business and exempt small business from stupid government regulations.

[FireFleur]

Well this is what the Italians are saying:

http://www.ansa.it/opencms/export/site/visualizza_fdg.html_876021715.html

And translated for those who have yet to open the door of Italian to themselves:

translation (http://uk.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ansa.it%2Fopencms%2Fexport% 2Fsite%2Fvisualizza_fdg.html_876021715.html&lp=it_en&btnTrUrl=Translate)

It is not really a big deal for them, only few a hundred workers, and I suspect there is more sympathy for the strike - Total are the ones coming out badly over this, and they are sort of UK Multinational Company.

We did have this in September though :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7608860.stm

Perhaps it is linked, use less English, and only hire Italian speaking workers ;)

But, the US side is now breaking news on foreign workers:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/topstories/2009-02-01-1127659341_x.htm

Banks were hiring foreign and laying off local just before it all collapsed.

[wevet]

For years the Unions have been caning employers with their insistence on the primacy of EU law: be min wage; working hours etc;maternity leave etc.

But now WHOOPS!! The poo has hit the fan and the unions now find themselves on the wrong end of the EU legislative process which for years they have militated to have adopted.

Well as one who has had to tolerate (with gnashing teeth) all the EU legislation so beloved by our Union leaders I say tough, don't kick and scream when employers exercise their rights to say we don't want you or your members involved in our contracts.

[chris nangle furniture]

as long as we are in the eu the guys at lynsey dont have a leg too stand on here,one thing though as t that whole stretch of the humber bank is full of oil plants i suspect that there would be lots of local workers qualified to carry out the work but as the italians won the tender they are free to bring in who they like to do the work ,
I carnt help thinking that had the reverse happend in italy or france there would be a full scale strike and the riots as usual but we are a bit polite in this country for that kind of thing

[FireFleur]

Well the strikes have gone nuclear, Sellafield is out, so is Heysham.

The law is being checked at the moment, Total are saying they are not discriminating, that is the legal fulcrum here. You cannot dsicriminate under EU law, employment laws changed a few years back, it is not old school any more you can not discriminate on nationality inside the EU, race, gender, age or some vague notion of trust, you have to hire on ability.

[thebigIAM]

Nothing wrong with foreign companies being here. Nothing wrong with foreign workers working here. Not allowing British people a chance to apply for those jobs is illegal.

I would be surprised if the Italian contractor was only using its existing team because civil engineering workers tend to be employed on a project by project basis.

I stayed for three months earlier this year at a campsite in Selby. Workers of all nationalities were staying there while doing a project at Drax. The atmosphere was an entente cordiale that would have gladdened the heart of any pro-European minded person. No resentment. Lots of friendly gatherings and neighbourly chats. Plenty of dosh filtering its way into the local community. Appalling British summer weather. Trade wouldn't have been so good for the campsite without those workers being there.

When we've worked up and down the country, sure, we took some of our people but we also hired locals on short-term. Local knowledge is too valuable to ignore.

This dispute is slightly longer than the media's awareness of it, but as soon as it became generally known the secondary action spread like wildfire, suggesting it struck a chord in other areas because this has already happened there.

[Ian J]

Britsh jobs for British workers. Let's kick out all the foreign workers starting with the football clubs :D

[UKSBD]

The law is being checked at the moment, Total are saying they are not discriminating, that is the legal fulcrum here.


Ah! that explains the jump in traffic to one of my blogs.

I made a blog post about a division of Total before Christmas,
http://www.nrac.co.uk/directory/0312081720/

It had about 200 visitors today.

[Comspec]

Britsh jobs for British workers. Let's kick out all the foreign workers starting with the football clubs :D

No way, Torres is only back to form !!! :D