Orders lost in post [Archive] - UK Business Forums

sysops

28th January 2009, 13:42

What percentage of your orders get lost in the postal system? mine is currently running at around 3%. Most find the way back to me eventually, but by which point i have already refunded or dispatched again and the rest can be put down to dishonest customers or theft by Royal Mail employees .

Do you mean 3% are actually lost and don't come back to you?

cycloneuk

28th January 2009, 13:54

Do you mean 3% are actually lost and don't come back to you?

3% get lost and around 2% find there way back after around 1 month usually so that leaves me with 1% that vanish. I'm not sure if that is good, if i was shipping 200 orders a day then that is 2 lost every single day which still seems high when i look at it like that.

sysops

28th January 2009, 13:57

3% get lost and around 2% find there way back after around 1 month usually so that leaves me with 1% that vanish. I'm not sure if that is good, if i was shipping 200 orders a day then that is 2 lost every single day.

That is bad, really, really bad!

Ok, based on the last 10,000 orders sent out (PacketPost 1st Class), we had:

23 reported missing by customer
12 of them came back as not called for
11 of them have been written off as lost

Do your parcels have a big label saying "contains expensive stuff"?

Is your return address clear on the parcels?

cycloneuk

28th January 2009, 14:01

I have a returns label on the side of all boxes, does say Fragrance Zone so i guess it would not be to hard to guess the contents, all go via Packtpost same as you.

sysops

28th January 2009, 14:02

I have a returns label on the side of all boxes, does say Fragrance Zone so i guess it would not be to hard to guess the contents, all go via Packtpost same as you.

I think there is definitely a problem somewhere, and it would be well worth trying to identify it.

trader22

28th January 2009, 14:09

Not sure of percentage of missing orders but must be very small. Sometimes they do come back after 4-6 weeks for reasons unknown (these are usually ones sent abroad).

Yes, people do cotton on that they haven't received when they have, I've caught a customer or two before claim not to have received something then found them selling it back on eBay - cheeky swines.

Theft by Royal Mail staff does happen quite regularly. There's a few news stories out there.

Putting a return address on parcels is a sure fire way to reduce your losses.

Bri

28th January 2009, 16:19

My son is into flesh tunnels and tattoos at present, whatever floats your boat. He recently bought mail order some small pieces from a company in Scotland who put down as their T&C ' same day despatch as they are paid for...'

Now they also cover themselves quite neatly 'We are UK based so your order should be with you quickly - but this does depend on Royal Mail, so delivery times are sadly out of our control!'

And lo and behold, it did happen, the order went astray. Now I rang them and a very sweet girl answered and explained above, asked me to wait till the following Monday and if still not arrived call us back and we'll ship some more out. Yup, my son rang again and the sweet girl answered again(he was taken by her too, they had a lovely conversation) and the shiiped more items out.

Now two things come out of this, the company has had this happen on more than one occasion obviously by the insertion(pun not intended)of clause in their T&C and also by the calming effect the staff have on the complainer.

The other thing is if you are already suffering losses why arent you using the parcel tracking system of the Post Office offers, it does work I've done it with FED EX and can pinpoint my delivery to the exact moment I will see it on my desk.By doing this you are insured and can claim.

thebigIAM

28th January 2009, 16:39

We used to send about 100 items a week recorded delivery letter post. Our missing items were about the same percentages as the OP.

sysops

28th January 2009, 16:40

The other thing is if you are already suffering losses why arent you using the parcel tracking system of the Post Office offers, it does work I've done it with FED EX and can pinpoint my delivery to the exact moment I will see it on my desk.By doing this you are insured and can claim.

Ah, the innocent naivete of a preachy customer. We occasionally get emails just like this.

It's simple economics. We charge £2.99 for standard delivery. 90% of our standard delivery parcels go RM Packet Post 1st class.

Of those, around 85% get there next day, 7% day 2, 5% day 3. The remaining 3% can be delayed by up to 2 weeks. Around 1 in every 1000 is completely lost.

If we charged £5.99 for delivery, we could send all parcels guaranteed next day parcel carrier. Customers do not want to pay £5.99 (they have the option, most choose £2.99).

The bottom line is that upgrading the service does not make financial sense, and customers don't want to pay for it.

trader22

28th January 2009, 17:18

I give the option to my customers of paying the extra for Recorded Delivery, of all the orders over the past few months, 1 customer, yes, 1 has taken that option.

If I paid out of my own pocket for RD for all orders, that is then 78p per order or £78 per 100.

This is probably far more than the cost of the goods.

Not to mention RD quite often fails to track, whether that's because they didn't upload the POD onto the computer in the delivery office, or the postie simply pushed the packet through the customers letterbox without even obtaining a signature.

The only time I would use RD is if the items are somewhat above £36 in value and it's an eBay sale.

Higher value items would go via courier where generally the tracking is good, but for something like jewellery as sysops points out you have to factor in the economics making it worthless to send trackable..

Tabbie

28th January 2009, 18:28

Royal Mail are shocking. I know this is hard to believe but I actually found a recorded delivery that I had sent in the street about 10 mins walk away from my office. The odds of that are probably a million to one but there it was just sitting on the floor. The postman had dropped it walking to his van.

cycloneuk

28th January 2009, 19:04

I'm not sure where to start with trying to reduce the lost percentage, i use strong boxes with loose fill, and have had many compliments with how well they are packed, never had any arrive broken yet. I'm thinking maybe a slightly bigger returns label since my current ones are 38.1 mm x 21.2 mm

deniser

28th January 2009, 19:31

I agree with Sysops - we lose about 1 in 1000 permanently. But we do use recorded delivery because I can't stand hassle, I'm too busy and prefer to have the ability to tell someone " yes delivery was attempted but you weren't in so get over to the PO now before they send the parcel back."

Many just can't be bothered to deal with the card and as the PO only keep recorded items for 7 days, they do come straight back. They do lie and say they didn't get a card sometimes (I know they do because the story changes). There is then the argument of who should pay the postage again.

So using recorded at 72p is hassle free and stops all the people pretending. But as Sysops says, you have to do the maths. Our customers pay £3.50 and the cost is met no problem as our average parcel cost is about £3 even with recorded.

I would mention that our average parcel value is probably about £50-60 so the £36 cover actually covers you only for the wholesale price not the retail price so it is perhaps a little different to sending parcels of lower value. We don't bother with recorded for orders of less than £15 (but the customer still pays for it).

But here's a new one - on Monday we had 4 large sacks of parcels - the PO come to collect. We then got a call from the PO saying one was missing - it was in our bulk posting book with barcode sticker etc. but the parcel was missing. We know it was in the sack as we always count them and double check but someone had helped themselves to it en route to the PO or maybe in the PO if they left the sack unattended. Not quite sure what to do about that!

PS Sorry for the incoherent post - hard day today merits a large glass or two of wine!

cycloneuk

28th January 2009, 20:19

I think i might do a trial run and send recorded for a month and see how many get lost then, i have a feeling that some customers are claiming non-delivery when they have received it. They could also do that with recorded items and i would still by law have to refund or replace but i think it would put people off doing so since the majority are not fully aware of the fine details of the DSR.

J-Wholesale

28th January 2009, 21:15

Having been involved in a number of different types of online businesses down the years, I'd suggest that you're asking the wrong question. Instead of asking what percentage of parcels get lost in the post, it might be better to ask "what percentage of parcels do customers report as being lost."

My reasoning for this is as follows: When I was involved in an eBay business selling single, one off products to private individuals, the percentage of 'lost' packages was quite high. When I was involved in an online business selling to other businesses, where repeat business and an ongoing relationship was the order of the day, lost packages were almost unheard of.

Yes, packages do get lost for real, and they may be stolen at some point, but this is incredibly rare. Far more likely that your customers are being less than honest with you. Of course, this too is something you need to factor into your pricing.

TotallySport

28th January 2009, 21:29

After having a high "lost" rate we now use recorded which has now dropped to almost 0, when people call to ask where there item is, there is now a signiture online (normally) and you simply ask if they know it, a couple of examples we have had recently is:

That was my daughter, (after ringing here) it turns out she though the parcel was a present for a young sister and hid it, then throw it away after cleaning her bedroom and hoped he mum didn't find out, but she did and if it hadn't been signed for that would have been £35 I would have lost.

Another

Before xmas they checked the signiture and it turn out to be a son who thought it was a christmas present and hid it in his bedroom, andother £55 which would have been lost.

Before moving everything to signed for we had very little returned from Royal Mail almost nil, now we have above 3 per day, but at least we can know where they are and can act on them confidently, with DSR it doesn't matter what has happened if a customer says they don't have it your stuffed and it will happen more and more.

The thing after that is, I only received 2 of the three.

Bri

28th January 2009, 21:56

From all the posts it appears you are all genuine business operators who take a responsibility to satisfy your customer despite the protests of non received goods without question and resupply at your own cost which is fantastic customer service and should be applauded and shouted about.

Pat on the back coming at ya!!!:):):)

Fuzzy

29th January 2009, 09:25

Thankfully (touch wood!) we haven't had any go missing just a few got delayed (up to a week!). We used Royal Mail 1st and 2nd class, obtain a Cert of Posting and have our return details on the back. I think your's def needs investigating:eek:

serendipitybusiness

29th January 2009, 10:39

I can also confirm the figures we would loose about 2% and that was using recorded Delivery. It is very rare when a package goes missing that the information is on the Royal Mail website or on there system as it is only entered when the package has been delivered or could not be delivered. Although they should I had many many times where they didn't ask for a signature and a few where they actually left it next door :0.

So it makes very little difference using recorded delivery as only special delivery is tracked. However, at least when they were lost they were genuinely lost and it wasn't the customer trying to pull a fast one.

MH1

29th January 2009, 10:54

I use recorded delivery and lose approx 1 in 2000, although I might save a bit of money on postage with a certificate of posting, I like recorded delivery since only 1 in 100 ever mention delivery even being delayed, so the time found to be saved investigating and replacing goods "lost" in the mail more than offsets it IMO.

It helps to use new packaging materials, large well printed labels with a return address label also. I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to teach granny how to suck eggs BTW.

Delta-SI

29th January 2009, 10:57

Now I never send anything but I do buy stuff every single day and I have loads of deliveries daily (some days there have been 4 courrier vans parked outside in the lane, much to the annoyance of the idiot farmer but I digress).

Out of the lot of them there are only ever two I have constant problems with:
Parcel Farce and Parcel Net.

Both are a total farce. Parcel Force because the driver constantly lies about attempting deliveries, saying he came 3 times in the same day and then leaving at the most inconvenient Post Office available.

And Parcel Net have lots 2 of my packages, one of my partners and refuse to talk to me because (quote from their CS department) "You're not our customer, I can't waste my time talking to you". Their courriers have some shocking reviews online as well, Including leaving packages in the bin on bin collection day, throwing packages over fences and into ponds and the like.

I will now not purchase anything that would get shipped by either of the above two compaines and I make sure I let retailers know.

serendipitybusiness

29th January 2009, 11:09

I have never had any problems with parcelforce apart from them damaging goods in transit and that was on an equal scale with royal mail. It sounds like you have a crap delivery person covering your area I would phone up and complain.

With recorded delivery there were always delays, however the ironic thing was that whenever a customer contacted me to let me know that their package hadn't arrived the majority of times it would arrive either later that day or the next day :rolleyes:.

Delta-SI

29th January 2009, 11:24

I have never had any problems with parcelforce apart from them damaging goods in transit and that was on an equal scale with royal mail. It sounds like you have a crap delivery person covering your area I would phone up and complain.

Oh believe me I have. The Customer "Service" manager said they have to take their drivers word over mine. And the driver logged that he attempted deliver at 0650 (at this hour both myself and my partner were home, and our dogs don't let anyone even get past the gate without going radio...) oh he then came back at 0930 and 1045, both times I had eyes on the front gate and at 1045 I was outside signing for another delivery and have the time stamp POD to prove it....

deniser

29th January 2009, 14:46

Don't forget the other advantage of recorded delivery - which is that it helps you to fight chargebacks - not the real fraud type chargebacks which never go in your favour - unless you use paypal and are within the seller protection policy - but the sort caused by old ladies who see something they don't recognise on their credit card bill and forgot they bought something from you. Much much easier to sort out with a signature.

groovyjon

29th January 2009, 15:08

snipe12

29th January 2009, 15:39

I use Parcel Force for my stuff. Never an issue except when it has to go via the Solent Depot where it has been lost or damaged 2 out of 3 times. Never again.

thebigIAM

29th January 2009, 15:39

Yes, but it still saves time redoing all the work and sending out, and I used to think customers were lying when they said they hadn't received anything, which then got me hot and bothered.

I even used to keep a book with the recorded delivery numbers in, to save hours and hours of going through the slips.

The Post Office seems to be changing its system but it's left me even more confused. You can request an A4 sheet where you write down about 15 of them all at once and it's quicker to stamp them all through. It still seems to take forever at the post office, even when you have done all the slips in advance.

deniser

29th January 2009, 16:37

So for those of you using recorded delivery, and sending a fair amount each day, are you filling out little forms with name+address for every parcel? Don't you find that too time consuming, not to mention the writer's cramp?

No they don't have those anymore for bulk posting. We just enter surname and postcode in a book and stick the barcoded sticker in next to each. We have preprinted mailing bags with our name and address on so it's actually a very quick process. The PO takes it away too to process and we get the book back stamped the next day.

thebigIAM

29th January 2009, 17:13

When you say bulk, how many do you post at once using this method? Also, can you tell me more about your preprinted mailing bags? Where do you order them from? Thanks.

deniser

30th January 2009, 07:30

When you say bulk, how many do you post at once using this method? Also, can you tell me more about your preprinted mailing bags? Where do you order them from? Thanks.

Anything between 7 and 70 parcels at a time.

I got my printed mailing bags from Richard at H&H Plastics

HH Plastics Ltd.
Navigation street
Walsall
West Midlands
WS2 9NE
Tel 01922 626238
Fax 01922 720947

For a large, very good quality, strong bag (50 x 45 cms) in white with extra film of black inside so they were not see through and a self seal strip I paid between 12p and 13p each for a small quantity of 5,000 including delivery. They were then overprinted in one colour with our return address, logo, etc. This was much cheaper than the plain ones we used to use which were yucky grey and cost about 15-16p.

H&H Plastics were extremely efficient, fast and I thought their service was amazing as well as producing a great product.