65k profit in 2008 but partner split so investment or silent partner needed

[jkchawner]

hi i have been trading for four years now very high profits have been reached for the last 2 years with ease.
oh and buy the way the credit crunch has not affected my sales much at all and i doubt it will due to the items i deal in all will become more clearer to intrested people.
major headache my partner decided just before xmas to drop the bomb shell that he is moving abroad and wants me to buy him out. so thats what i have done so im now the soletrader of a very high profit business but not left with a great deal for working capital. so im either looking for a sleeping partner or an investment of between 20-30k. for a sleeping partner i would be offering 30% of net profit per year. or a 30% return on any investment or loan put forward to myself per year.
my sales are mainly internet based i have a large customer base and lots of repeat custom. the items i sell are higher value items that i refurbish and sell on for good profit example if i invest around £1000 i can turn that in to £3000 in 7-10 days and i can turnover 2-3 of them every 10 days no problem. for reasons im sure u can understand im not going to say on here what it is i sell and refurbish but all will be made clear to any serious offers in due course.
i have my own premises in the east midlands (derbyshire)
im not intrested in a working partnership to be honest now im tie free from my partner things feel a lot better and i can get on with the job in hand easier for sure.
the money is to be used for buying in more stock and some machinery needed for production of certain items i fit etc.
this is a very good offer im making for the right investment and im sure any investment or loan offered will make us both a lot of money in 2009.
all my sales etc can be proved via internet sales etc its all there in black and white for anyone to see.

any sharks who come sniffing i can assure you i will smell a mile away

thanks for reading and please inc a contact number with any replies as im not always on the internet due to the hours i work so would prefer to ring instead of emails

[downsouth]

why do you need an investor if you can turn £2-3K into £6-9K every 10days??

[Tej]

Heres hoping you get many a fish that can smell
Happy new year

[jkchawner]

simple fact that i have not worked for the last 10 weeks due to sorting out the partner split problem having to pay him off which has also cost a great deal of money. and i have not long had a major operation which has took until now to get over.
also the items i buy and refurbish i buy in bulk normaly then get stuck in to work for a couple of months then start the same process all over again.
its just a pattern im used to and i have enough to carry on now myself but not in this manner. i would have to alter how i work and thats never a good thing to do is it.
its as simple as this i have a great business and im after an investor or sleeping partner. i have the business to make me and another a lot of money in 2009 and maybe the following years as well if we are both happy in a working enviroment together.
im not after cash now then pay off and dump someone this could be a good long term future investment for the right person

[richflyerme]

if you need any leaflets delivering let me know :)

flyer me dot co dot uk

[biomed86]

What is the business if you don't mind me asking?

[Mikey12345]

What is the business if you don't mind me asking?

Sshh. Just cough up the £65k, never mind what they do. It's not important.

;)

[jkchawner]

if u dont have anything worth saying then why bother with the stupid reply?
dont u have anything better to do with your time ?

[Mikey12345]

I'm sorry but you're asking people to put up £65k and not telling them what the business does?

And I apologise for the sarcasm.

[jkchawner]

sorry but if u care to read the entire contents then u will see that im not asking for 65k at all !
im open to any decent investment and i have already told 2 people what the business is all about through private emails already and its only been on a couple of hours.
if i don't get an investment hey i will still be able to continue no problem but not at the same pace as a solid investment would bring.
65k profit was made in 2008 is that not a good business for one that has only been running for four years?
if u are intrested great if not thats fine as well but as for comments like that well enough said my freind.
BUT PLEASE LEARN TO READ BEFORE SHOUTING THE ODDS AT LEAST !

[Esk247]

so basically you have a business that can generate a relatively large amount of gross/net profit and you don't want to change your pattern of work so would prefer someone to invest up to £65k but it can be less if they get more involved in the business and develop it etc?

i presume its something thats quite popular as you say it isn't really affected by the credit crunch!

[darren atkinson]

Can't people here read?

The guy is looking for an investment of up to £30k, his profit last year was £65k.

I am curious as to what he sells, but can understand him not wanting to disclose it on a public forum, he has rightly chosen to discuss it further with serious parties.

What's the problem?

[jkchawner]

at last phew there are some people who can read lol
thats correct an investment 20-30k is what this is all about.
i was begining to think this was going to snowball on to another subject that many times i was wasting my time but there u have it this man took his time to read the advert all the way instead of quoting figures from the heading. THANK U order now restored.
maybe its me this was the first time i have ever done anything like this advertise i mean on the internet.
i dont have a problem telling anyone what i do as long as i no they are serious and intrested not just being shall we say a waste of time replying to. yes that sounds better than rubber necker lol

[Burden]

Im glad someone got that it was a 20-30k investment which is in the first few posts.

Can you tell me more about it by PM at all?

[mikelaluz]

Hi JC
Having run a number of successful businesses over the last 20 years my advice to you is very simple. You have a profitable business that you say is recession proof (gold dust) why on earth give away 30% (for the total life of the business) to introduce a 'sleeping partner' who will have a huge say in how you ultimately run the business and all for 20-30K. Beg, borrow or be creative but don't go for short term gain for a lifetime of potential pain - there are always options!
Regards
Mike

[jkchawner]

sorry i dont see it the same way as u mike.
investment can be a good thing as well as bad. i have a proven track record with my business and a good solid product with a proven sales and profits record etc for the last 4 years.
im willing to take on either a silent partner for an investment of 20-30k or just a stright return on money invested i have 3 very intrested business men already with funds in place if it helps my business grow and im still in control of the business why does that not make sense?
old saying better to be safe than sorry rings a bell to me.
maybe u have had bad times with investors before i have used the investor route before and never had any problems at all.
thanks for your point though

[jkchawner]

just so you all no i have been swamped with questions and offers in the first day alone. i have taken today off to answer all the emails im getting regarding the investment required if you are serious about this please fire away today if u can with all your questions. after today emails will be answered at night after tea time as i dont have internet access at my unit.
what an amazing site this is by the way i never new it was here until now.

[dingbat]

You must understand people being suspicious. After all, the 'partner needed' is also an old scam. Not saying you're a scammer but it's a very old ploy.

As said, if you're making this much money why would you need an investor? And even if you did, you could easily get a loan on the back of such a healthy business.

[jkchawner]

very insulted by this remark
i have proven sales profits etc etc more than enough to convince anyone with an ounce of sense that what i am telling u makes sense. ebay figures and invoices dont lie neither do there massive fee's they charge which would more than likely be more than you earn in year on there own !
sorry my freind but i aint no clock and u dont wind me up that easy.

i could go to the bank your right there well done for pointing this out.
even though it was of course the first thing i thought off lol

i want if poss someone with an input in to the business if poss as well as money ever thought of that. i started four years ago well to be honest nearly five years ago now come march.
i have always had a partner or someone there and still like the idea but not in a working sense.
i have tons of intrest already and have 2 phone numbers now but what they want is to much in my eyes so they are both on the back burner for now.
this business will carry on even if i dont get the investment the way i want it with or without the investment infact.
im not skint matey i holiday in my own holiday home 3-4 times a year yes my own ! i run a very nice merc all paid for have my own house and business premises and a very nice mrs and kids to go with that.
and my bank account is ok as well
yourself ?????????????

[jkchawner]

next dingbat please

[downsouth]

oh dear oh dear, think you might be talking yourself out of any assistance here with replies like that.

Suggest you think a little more professionally if you are looking for investment. Members here are only pointing out things that others might be thinking themselves

[jkchawner]

please ask quality questions
ive heard all the stupid ones before folks
this is genuine 100% ready made high profit making business i don't need or want the hassle of having to answer to stupid questions again infact i will just ignore them anyway now so fire away

[dingbat]

please ask quality questions
ive heard all the stupid ones before folks


Very telling.

[jkchawner]

sometimes enough can be enough
ive not come on here to scam anyone mate.
anyone considering spending there hard earned money is more than welcome to come and rip me apart looking for holes but there are not any i can assure you.
im a very genuine guy with a very genuine chance for someone to earn themselfs a good return on any investment put forward to me.
i have never been on a forum before and we all have to start somewere maybe i started off on the wrong foot by answering like that but gets a bit on my goat when im being questioned like this. i no im genuine and i suppose you lot out there dont im not here to prove anything im here to continue making money same as we all are business's are falling thick and fast now as we all no mine keeps getting stronger due to dam hard work and the product i sell not being affected hardly at all by the crunch.
i dont need a slagging off for being honest and a hard worker willing to share some of my fruits of life with others do i.
please accept what im telling u is the real deal then i wont have to defend what it is i have worked so hard for in life. sorry to anyone who was offended by that last outburst.
but lifes hard enough

[jkchawner]

sorry mr dingbat but i have had the day off today due to the large amounts of emails im getting to answer them best i can asap.
no offense intended

[Chris Ashdown]

What percentage of shares in the company are you looking at giving the investor, and as they will most likely be a under 50% shareholder what sort of guarantee are you giving that they get their money back?

[jkchawner]

i will 100% give what i quote back it can be paid in either monthly quarterly yearly however you should wish. all can be written up by a solicitor no problem im looking for an investment of between 20-30k and would give 30 k back over a one year period on 20k u wont get a better deal than that or anywere near now as banks etc are not worth having cash in at the moment.

[business123]

sometimes enough can be enough
ive not come on here to scam anyone mate.
anyone considering spending there hard earned money is more than welcome to come and rip me apart looking for holes but there are not any i can assure you.
Is this you as well? http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:zuyEe4SSOmMJ:www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/14540-wanted-mobile-home-benidorm-swap-60k-per-anum-business.html+jkchawner&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk

[jkchawner]

no thats my ex partner i never even new he had advertised that. thats what he has done with his buyout money moved to spain he moves at the end of feb

[dingbat]

Why is he using the same name on his posts?

[jkchawner]

because i already have a home in spain and he uses my expat forum

[Tej]

Heres hoping you get many a fish that can smell
Happy new year

lol.. business 123.. wonderful

Seems you are the right fish that can smell:)

[jkchawner]

whats wrong with someone using your password etc in a forum he still has the alarm code to my unit and my house after 20 years of knowing each other i thinkthere is enough trust there dont u. if u look wheni first advertised this u will see that i brought my partner out as he is moving to spain.
this forum must have had a lot of rip of merchants on before and seems like you all must have been conned because you are all well on guard all the time.
i can assure you im the real deal any body who is intrested in this is more than welcome to view my house unit anything im no conman.
and worse of all none of u can read it seems as i stated all of this in the very first few word i typed

[business123]

no thats my ex partner i never even new he had advertised that. thats what he has done with his buyout money moved to spain he moves at the end of feb & whats wrong with someone using your password etc in a forum

If that's the case, how come it says this:

Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1
Rep Power: 0

[Tej]

Don't think your "partner" is going to move yet:)
unless he has swapped the business for a trailer in Benidorm..lol

[jkchawner]

and your point is ?
i have membeship of lots of diff spanish forums is that a crime is this a who done it forum ? look watch my lips accountent books premises house address id driving licence spanish property deeds what more would u like me to show any investor can there be any more to show ?
i hate emerdale but im going to watch it now as im sick of all the crap u keep spouting on about i have an answer for all you are throwing at me grow up

[jkchawner]

as far as im aware he has paid and signed for the property. i buy and sell bits and bobs on ebay as well do you want to do a search on there and pull something up from there next or are we talking business on here. at least thats what i thought this was all about on here.
makes no odds to me whatever you put on here i already have firm offers today but they want more than im prepaired to offer if i was a conman i would be taking them up on there offers yes ?

[Tej]

lol.. emerdale is just about right..be careful to mind your back
Compliments of the season!!!

[lesliedocherty]

jkchawner comes across terrible, very rude and i think the questions about scam are valid.

you cant come on a public forum, ask for a pile of money and get arsey and rude when people question it.

[jkchawner]

im not getting arsey and rude when idiots on here come up with stupid comments by putting 2 & 2 together and coming up with 5 what do u expect ?

[MH1]

I think the point Chris Ashdown was making is you are not pitching for the money at all well, whilst you might be sold on how good an offer it is end of the day 99% of people will want a reasonable proposal put in front of them,a nd as mentioned why should they go looking for the details, when they have the money.

I on the other hand do not have the money, but with a better proposal you might have more chance of interesting someone who does, after all, it's not that much work to type the details correctly just once, is it?

[Tej]

im not getting arsey and rude when idiots on here come up with stupid comments by putting 2 & 2 together and coming up with 5 what do u expect ?

Idiots eh!.. you have proved nothing about your business. business 123 came up with enough.. and you say you are the real deal!!

At least you cannot give any valid answers to the "idiots" here.
You might as well take another holiday.to your property in Spain. . to make it 5:)..

And note you start another thread!! wanting the dosh!

Sounds fantabulous:)

[downsouth]

could you not proceed at the slower pace, that way building the business up again by yourself, keeping all profits internally.

Looking at your previous forecasts it wouldn't take long to be back up to full speed.

It may sound good to have a 'partner' onboard but might create more hassle/issues than its worth. A quick look on the forums and you'll find plenty of stories regarding partnerships going sour

[MH1]

In your position being able to back things up as you mention I would personally borrow the money from a bank.

[DuaneJackson]

Do you guys really think that this forum is full of gullible idiots that need your protection?

If the OP is a scammer - which there's nothing to sugest he is - then surely anyone interested in investing is capable of doing due dilligence?

If you've got something constructive to add to the thread then great. If you want to question the OP, then fine too - but do it with atleast a modicum of respect.

[oldeagleeye]

I appreciate what you say Duane but some of these posters wanting money really do live in a dream world. Some make absurd claims like the one a week of so ago with talk of $3.8 BILLION profit in 3 years. That as I recall was an auction site that had been running for over a year and hadn't managed to get one free advertiser in all that time.

By the way the CEO/President who was so snotty about his title to members. Well he is actually a gardner and not even a self-employed one.

We then get yet more dreamers or scammers. They want £20K - £30K but don't want to say what the business is but gradually with every post they dig theireslves a deeper and deeper hole.

Now I don't know if this guy is a dreamer of just lacks common sense. Then again he could just be confused. He started this thread with wanting the money for a 50% shareholding. Now it seems he is offering to pay back £30K on £20K. That in my book anyway is an unsecured loan - yea right and what is the business. I think he mentioned selling things on E-bay.

Now why on earth would anyone in their right mind hand over £20,000 quid to a stranger to gamble on E-bay. They might just as well take a round the world trip and start up a little drop shipping operation theirself.

I think what really gets members going however is that we get so many spammers on here that the forum itself has got a reputation whereby these people actually do think that we are all fools. That and the lies like the phone hasn't stopped ringing with investors queuing up.

Well if it has for chummy - good luck to him. I think he will find though that Santa has gone back to lapland for a year. In the meantime I would suggest anyone seeking investment on here come prepared with a full blown business plan and have something more substantial to offer than an E-bay account.

[Tej]

Do you guys really think that this forum is full of gullible idiots that need your protection?

If the OP is a scammer - which there's nothing to sugest he is - then surely anyone interested in investing is capable of doing due dilligence?

If you've got something constructive to add to the thread then great. If you want to question the OP, then fine too - but do it with atleast a modicum of respect.

Respect begets respect... has he shown any?

[estwig]

Gotta agree with Tej, the OP is a rude scammer and deserves no respect.

He keeps biting and coming back for more, it is the nature of forums to take chunks outta him each time he returns.

Long may scammer bashing continue, makes for a fun read!!

:)

[jkchawner]

65 k profit is a decent deal for 2008 is it not?
all accounts are in black and white
all sales figures are in black and white
all listings are in black and white
all ebay fees are in black and white all fvf fees are in black and white
and guess what so are my profits in 2008
2007
2006
2005
getting the picture now ????????????????

and if u belive it or not i already have had talk with two poss investors on the phone both of whom say the same about this forum so that makes three of us there.
its just hard to belive that sometimes people cannot see the woods for the trees.
anything i type on here will be slagged of now no matter what cause guess what you are all a bunch who devote your time to getting together and picking on certain posts if u think there may be a problem. cant fault you if there is a problem fine.
but im offering all the proof needed as well so i think you may be wrong for once dont you !
i first hear about a name for people like you at school guys its called
bullys.
so its about time you all grew up in my eyes.
i wont be bothering answering any more of your stupid questions or commenting on your remarks anymore but i will be logging in every day.
because guess what all the fuss your generating is still getting me loads of traffic and that can only be good.

[jkchawner]

as for the other remark about wont take long to build up again
yes i no that. belive it or not i started my business with £500 and built it up to were it is with a lot of hard graft.
its working capital im short on.
stock is low due to having to sell finished products to pay off my partner etc
combination of factors as well.
not noing about him wanting to bail out till last min.
buying a holiday home myself this year
so yes some of the blame is my own making as well.
i dont want to have to start selling the things i have worked hard for.
i dreamed about owning my own place abroad for a long time and now i have it dont want to lose it but if push comes to shove well who no's what i may have to do.
im a great investment i can turn 10 grand in to 20 in a month without even breaking a sweat when up to full speed. convincing anyone on here is another matter im afraid i may have to give up on looking at things now.

[Tej]

.
i wont be bothering answering any more of your stupid questions or commenting on your remarks anymore but i will be logging in every day.
because guess what all the fuss your generating is still getting me loads of traffic and that can only be good.

Happy for you. The motorways must be jammed with catering trailers from Calahonda to Benidorm:) perhaps from Alicante too:)

[downsouth]

Well you might need to look at other forms of finance, do you have credit cards?? close friends and family who may be hapy to play the 'silent partner' option?

Just things to add to the pot to ensure you think about these options, very easy to try and get someone to invest £00000's, getting them to handover the cash is a different matter

We all have dreams, goals etc but some take time, some a lot of time to mature. Personally in your situation I wouldn't be handing over @30-50% of your company to someone. afterall its you who is doing the work.

whats to say the person who invests wants to you to work harder, more profit, very soon the gloss will rub off the partnership and the cracks will appear and you will once again have to buy someone out and be back to square 1 to find finance

[adam]

JKC you have to understand that simply saying again and again that I make profits look at me I aint no scammer does not actually prove anything.

Don't get drawn in to it, you placed your advert, you said no sharks and now everyone else has questioned if you are the shark wanting to avoid other sharks.

Some people with money are not as smart as some on here without. It may be inheritance or redundancy for a life's work. The members questioning you do not want to see those with cash and less acumen ripped off.

As it stands, with the evidence we have, you are either a scammer or not a scammer. I am either a fat ballerina or I am not a fat ballerina. You see the point, however crazy one of the options may be, the simple fact is you are one or the other.

You are not the biggest user on here, you don’t have a long track history so you need to handle yourself accordingly.

You may have a great business but this is not a sleazy bar for picking up your next ride. You have walked in and said follow me for the gold, talk to me in private and I will tell you how.

Perhaps tell us a bit about the business. You need to advertise it so telling us what it does won’t mean someone will do it themselves.

[jkchawner]

im not saying im the golden boy im saying anything im stating on here is the truth and can be backed up 100% im a business man myself and understand all what you are saying but to be ripped apart as there trying is not asking questions its damright bully boy tactics. and its obvious that some enjoy this by what they are saying on here. sorry but thats the way they have made it not me. i dont go on other peoples threads and start ripping in to them for no reason.
how childish can u be about trailers on there way to benidorm even my kid says how old are they dad lol that says it all for me

[jkchawner]

its already on here what i do for a living
i buy refurbish and sell on catering trailers
carry out repairs resprays etc etc

[Tej]

hi i have been trading for four years now very high profits have been reached for the last 2 years with ease.
oh and buy the way the credit crunch has not affected my sales much at all and i doubt it will due to the items i deal in all will become more clearer to intrested people.
major headache my partner decided just before xmas to drop the bomb shell that he is moving abroad and wants me to buy him out. so thats what i have done so im now the soletrader of a very high profit business but not left with a great deal for working capital. so im either looking for a sleeping partner or an investment of between 20-30k. for a sleeping partner i would be offering 30% of net profit per year. or a 30% return on any investment or loan put forward to myself per year.
my sales are mainly internet based i have a large customer base and lots of repeat custom. the items i sell are higher value items that i refurbish and sell on for good profit example if i invest around £1000 i can turn that in to £3000 in 7-10 days and i can turnover 2-3 of them every 10 days no problem. for reasons im sure u can understand im not going to say on here what it is i sell and refurbish but all will be made clear to any serious offers in due course.
i have my own premises in the east midlands (derbyshire)
im not intrested in a working partnership to be honest now im tie free from my partner things feel a lot better and i can get on with the job in hand easier for sure.
the money is to be used for buying in more stock and some machinery needed for production of certain items i fit etc.
this is a very good offer im making for the right investment and im sure any investment or loan offered will make us both a lot of money in 2009.
all my sales etc can be proved via internet sales etc its all there in black and white for anyone to see.

any sharks who come sniffing i can assure you i will smell a mile away

thanks for reading and please inc a contact number with any replies as im not always on the internet due to the hours i work so would prefer to ring instead of emails

At no stage have you mentioned catering trailers!
This was gleaned by a post that Business 123 found out.. with due diligence:).

[jkchawner]

see there u go again i said it was already on here

[UKSBD]

What do you need the £20k for?
To buy some new trailers to do up, or buy equipment for doing them up?
If it's to buy the trailers, why not get an investor to buy the trailers, you
do them up, then split the profit?
That way the investor has some physical property to show for his investment.

[JADEMEDIA]

CheeseBurger & Chips anyone. The cheese is sprayed on of course.:eek:

[jkchawner]

yep trailers are what most of the money is needed for.
thats fine i dont mind this at all as long as it can work for both sides

[jkchawner]

hey jademedia come and join the bandwagon

[SLF]

im confused about this thread.

Its asking for investment but that link to the expat forum post talks about selling the '£60k business'. It mentions the health problem which im presuming is linked to your recent operation.

So is this a business for sale or are you looking for an investor?

[jkchawner]

its not for sale
im looking for an investor loan whatever u want to call it.
right let me start from the begining
i need the cash to purchase stock ie: trailers
they will then be refurbished and resold for great profit
if anyone wants to try this out first by starting with a small investment first fine. i can then show them how fast a turnaround it is and the profits involved etc
can i say any fairer than that forget 20k for now
lets start with it small and build up from there 20k etc can come after once the proof has been shown

[oldeagleeye]

Al last the OP seems to have got the message. Buy one trailer and work up from there. Now how much is one trailer gonna cost. You should be able to find the money for that yourself.

How can you call this a business anyway if you have no capital . No stock. You are then just a tradesman with the tools of his trade and nothing else. This is not a viable business opportunity for an investor anyway because if you became ill again the business would cease to exist.

Sorry OP. If I were you I would get out there and go one at a time. You have been ill anyway why do you need the stress but good luck now it seems the other 3 investors on the phone have hung up and your down from wanting £30K to about a grand.

[jkchawner]

butt out mate your boaring same old crap again and again
20000 sqf premises tools equipment experiance repeat customers large customer database just to mention a few
and who says im skint i never i said low on working capital
as rightly pointed out start small may encourage a kickstart to an investor then i can prove what my business is and how high the profits are etc think im selling nearly five years of building up a good reputatiion and hard work for a grand think again buster.
a quick check on a few freinds lists of all those slagging me of makes things a lot clearer u do this on a regular basies dont you wonder why
maybe its because you have nothing better to do ?
or is it maybe because your a sad old git sitting ther staring at 4 walls in your council house waiting for your next giro?

[jkchawner]

anyone whom is intrested in starting a decent conversation
benwilliams2007@googlemail.com
i will be intrested to here any offers u may have of help investment etc there and will reply to all emails
thanks everyone

[Tej]

butt out mate your boaring same old crap again and again
20000 sqf premises tools equipment experiance repeat customers large customer database just to mention a few
and who says im skint i never i said low on working capital
as rightly pointed out start small may encourage a kickstart to an investor then i can prove what my business is and how high the profits are etc think im selling nearly five years of building up a good reputatiion and hard work for a grand think again buster.
a quick check on a few freinds lists of all those slagging me of makes things a lot clearer u do this on a regular basies dont you wonder why
maybe its because you have nothing better to do ?
or is it maybe because your a sad old git sitting ther staring at 4 walls in your council house waiting for your next giro?

How to win friends and influence people!!!..lol

[SLF]

@jk, I agree some people here have been less than professional - but just because they think you are some kind of scammer or con man puzzles me why they have to lower their own standards in tandem to what they perceive you to be.

However, balancing this out, you must also be able to see another side of it such as the expat forum post as I mentioned - which clearly contradicts your post here and with no explanation that makes sense to readers who might be interested. The bit about your ex partner having your forum login is a daft excuse. That is someone with a medical problem selling a full business which matches the description you gave here, so it reads like you are selling it there a month ago, and looking for an investor here. Surely you must see this looks odd? A better explanation would be that you thought about selling, advertised there, but decided afterwards that you would see if you could keep the busines and just get an investor.

Your responses have become more impolite though Im sure you are quite peed off by it all, so why not show you are above this by not stopping to match the response of the poor quality replies? You might not like my response, but im not being rude, nasty or unhelpful. If you dont like my response it will only because I have touched a nerve, but hopefully you will recognise someone here is just pointing out to you an impartial viewpoint.

A lot of what you write does not stack up and im being honest not nasty. If you need £20 or £30k then you should just tell people you have a business plan and cashflow, balance sheet, etc all ready and waiting to anyone that wishes to meet up, but giving a good overall review of the business here, which you can do without revealing too much private stuff - after all, refurbishing trailers is hardly a secret to protect. You have no staff or other partners now, so secrecy isn't required at all. You could supply your name, address business name etc and if you are confident of the business status and potential, there is nothing to hide. People sell and buy businesses all the time for all sorts of reasons, you are no different but the way you have presented here gives reasons for concern and you need to respond clearly and professionally otherwise why would anyone want to invest in you after reading this thread which is now in Google?

If you cannot see this then all you are making 100% clear is that you are not interested in any other points of view and that for an investor, must surely be an important factor.

[SLF]

anyone whom is intrested in starting a decent conversation
benwilliams2007@googlemail.com
i will be intrested to here any offers u may have of help investment etc there and will reply to all emails
thanks everyone

watch out for the hail of bullets about the gmail address :rolleyes:

[jkchawner]

how to keep coming back when your mates say put the boot in a bit more how old are u grow up man.
and more to the point get a life
you no what makes me laugh even more
one of the pratts who keeps slagging me off asks how much im looking for by private email lol as if i would want to earn them any money !
im looking for an investor how decent of them to offer

not !:D

[Tej]

Half of what I say is meaningless; but I say it so that the other half may reach you.:)

[jkchawner]

some points you are correct on sir others way out.
i will be sending u a private message on some of these points in a moment just so u hopefully will clarify that im justyfied in not putting them on here and am an honest person with a decent buisness that can offer a very good investment to anyone whom is willing to take the time to invest very little for big rewards.
after that my email address is on here for all to see
benwilliams2007@googlemail.com
so any intrested partys please email me there as i wont be answering anymore emails on here. theres no point. staying on the internet 24/7 hoping for any chance of investment with the way things are so congratulations you have won u all no who you are.
as for the gmail address wait for the hail of bullets i honestly dont no what you are talking about there but i have a feeling im about to find out !
hopefully after having put my trust in yourself who seems a decent chap you will write up some of what i have told u on private email on here which will also prove to yourself and others on here that im not a fake scammer or anything else like that.
i feel at a real low right now and to be honest can u blame me !
still at least it will make someones day that they won the so called war that has been going on on here for 2 days.
thanks for nothing guys

[RedMacbeth]

I think what some other members are trying to explain is that some of your posts don't add up and are slightly confusing. Either don't reply back, you should channel your energy elsewhere or provide a more reasonable anwser.

I can see that under your Ebay name, j.k.chawner1980 that you did join in Sept 08 and yes you have sold a trailer before and currently have 3 on sale, starting from a few hundred pounds. You do seem to sell mainly dodgy cable tv boxes but I'm in no doubt that you do sell refurbished trailers.

What I would like to hear from yourself is some explanations into the things that don't add up. This is not to suggest that you are some sort of scammer but it is no help to any potential investors if you keep repeating the same thing over and over whilst continuing to dodge questions.

I am slightly concerned that if you are able to turn £1000 into £3000 every 7-10days or £10,000 into £20,000 every month without breaking a sweat then why would you need an investment? I understand that you are low on working capital but you have stated every time that you arent skint, that you have a healthy bank account, you holiday in your own holiday home 2-3 times a year, have a nice mercedes...etc etc. Why not cut back on such luxuries? Why not buy one trailer, make some profit then work on from there? Why should others risk losing their hard earned money when you aren't willing to risk your own?

You also stated that you have 3 businessmen with funds in place and later you have stated that you have 2 phone numbers on the back burner? If you already have 3 businessmen in place why aren't you concentrating on obtaining a suitable arrangement if they are interested?

I assume that due to your terminal back problem you were looking to swap the buisness for a mobile home but you have since recovered from the major operation you discussed in your first post and would like to continue with the business after all? Or did you recieve no response from the posts on Spanish expat forums? If so, you should be completely honest about this with any potential investors as it will build trust and earn respect.

If this isn't the case, I would consider legal action against your partner. Your partner is logging into your accounts, using your details and trying to sell or swap the full business without any mention of you or your hard work. Your partner should only be offering a full business if it is his to give away and has bought you out. This doesn't seem to be the case though?

My head hurts.

[oldeagleeye]

Me a sad old git. Never. Unlike you I can laugh all the way to the bank.:eek: and do you know what really makes for a good old belly laugh this

Quote. you no what makes me laugh even more
one of the pratts who keeps slagging me off asks how much im looking for by private email lol as if i would want to earn them any money !
im looking for an investor how decent of them to offer

It's not that I am insulting your intelligence old chap after all you know how to spell old git and the like but in the context you used the word it should read KNOW.:D

Incidentally 'old chum' - FREEBIE email like Hotmail - Yahoo and Gmail is regarded as naff by the vast majority of legitimate business folk and because they are favoured by spammers - most genuine email service providers - including web based then BLOCK them automatically.

You never know there may be 1000,s of potential investors out there that simply can't get through. Worth investing a £1 a MONTH for a real email address then - don't you think

[jkchawner]

i have 1 solid offer out of the 3 but he wants more than im prepaired to give simple as that. as for the cut down on things i have yes i have a nice car house holiday home etc that dont mean im spendingmad i had all these before the partner split so what has that to do with my finances now?
im not in a position were i can carry on the business as i like ie: buy stock in bulk etc
whats wrong with people on here u have to tellthem 10 times as for my health thats a private matter i can tell u im fully fit for work now and thats all any investor needs to no. i have even offered as someone suggested to start with a smaller investment from someone so that they can see what they are buying etc for themselfs.
whats the nect step then now give my business away?

[fathippy]

Hah - late as usual to this one - also prepared to come in on the fence and continue the "sensible" side of the discussion.

Why offer 150%??? returns to outside investors (who from your point of view may have trust issues for you also) when you clearly have enough assets to raise the finance at perhaps 10%-15%. Someone who has a mercedes could do a "log book loan" at the 20% mark. Your foreign property must have enough equity to have a secured loan at the 10% level, indeed someone who holidays multiple times and owns a nice car, could easily get a few credit cards together to reach about 20k, and then be paying 15% ish. In fact - if you are really clever you could get most of it interest free for a year or so!

There are three ways of doing it that dont involve probing questions or disrespectful responses. Also, the fact that you havent gone down that route will make any potential investor curious. Therefore you need to discuss why this route is the preferred route.

[jkchawner]

quick example for u phone call this morning offering 3 trailers for £3500 £300 needed on top for collecting etc as they are 165 mile away so 3 trips needed to collect them. and about £1200 in cash needed to be spent between the 3 of them
3-4 days each in workshop working a 6 day week finished first one say i start monday and it will be finished by thursday latest advertised on a 3 day auction. done and dusted by sunday next one advertised on the monday sold thursday next one advertised on thursday sold on the sunday all will make between 3-4k each do u have to be good at maths to work the profit involved ?
and thats why i like my stock in constent turnover
i have people who will collect for me if im busy etc
i dont even have to leave the workshop now do u understand more why i dont want to change the way i work i have a good method of constantly having trailers for sale that why i have such a good sales record
cause i work dam hard
and yes i could start with one trailer easy enough but then while im waiting for it to sell etc i could have finished another if i have a constent stream of trailers coming out the workshop and always one selling while the others being refurbished thats how u never run low on work and make the big profits which is what business is all about.

[jkchawner]

yes i can do all the things u mention or one etc but i dont really want to unless i really have no other option. my choice is to find an investor if i can. if i cant which is looking more that likely how its going to be then i may have to do one of these.
its a path i have been down before the investor route and it worked out great last time for me and him so i cannot see no reason why it cannot again.
regards

[SLF]

your method of working is more unique to you as the goods are high value low number of turnover, and I personally didnt see anything wrong with your original post if im honest, it just went downhill a bit with the explanations.

To me it sounds pretty much straightforward. You've been doing ok, hit a stumbling block that has knoecked your churn out of sync, choked your cashflow, and delayed your normal process. Now you are trying to restart the cogs by using a hopefully win-win approach if using an investor than just selling up, as you realise your model works so why ditch it. am I right?

[jkchawner]

yes i think u have hit the nail on the head.
it dont take einstein to work out my spelling and way i put my words sometimes is not 100% but i think you all get the picture now.
im sorry but if i have offended anyone then thats just because im very protective by nature. i dont want to rip anyone off and i think if your honest after ther email i sent you thats clear to you now as well.
i do have a solid business that is not affected by the credit crunch up to now hardly at all reason being most people who are finding themselfs out of work turn to this sought of a business (catering trailers) i no people who have been doing what i have for many more years than myself and they all say the same that catering trailer sales are always good no matter what the state of play.
im just looking for someone who wants to make some cash as much as i do hey if they want to pull put after a couple of month when im up and running and they have made some cash all good but i doubt they will when they see the cash coming in thick and fast.
you all no what i do for a business now you all no how i work i have proved my sales are good to 3 diffarent people on here someone give me a chance and lets make some cash.

[fathippy]

yes i can do all the things u mention or one etc but i dont really want to unless i really have no other option. my choice is to find an investor if i can.

Thats the bit that needs understanding - why not take the alternatives costing 10-20% or less, rather than the one costing multiples of that. The only real answer is if you expect the business to go belly up, where my suggestions would leave you worse off. Consequently there is an inference in your choice that you are worried that the business will fail. Furthermore, given the returns offered are so much more than the alternatives, in a betting perspective, you are displaying a heavy odds-on price ticket on your business failing.

Until you give clarity on this perceived mismatch in valuation, this will worry investors.

[SLF]

There are people who go on Dragons Den and ask for amounts that clearly they could get by remortgaging their homes or taking a bank loan , but they say they dont want to do that and the dragons seem to accept that reasoning as needing their investment.

[jkchawner]

my personal choice is the investor route no other reason
u have just read about the 3 trailers i can get now for £3500 + whats needed to get them ready for resale and collecting etc

right someone on one of the early post suggested this not me.

maybe an investor would be more happy if they have physical goods quote !

theres the perfect chance now

what more can i say
someone stump the cash up they can come with me to collect the goods see were my unit is etc etc meet my family my house etc etc
then leave me to get on with raking the cash in for us both,
problem solved physical ggods there and profit on the way nice :)

and by the way my business wont go bust because i wont let it simple as that i have no outstanding debts at all my unit is fully paid up for the next 3 months as of 4 days ago etc etc
so weres the risk in that deal im offering ?
there is not one its a perfect chance for me and someone else.

i will even sign a contract taking full responsability for any loss's myself and to pay the money back in full should anything happen.
which it won't

[jkchawner]

thanks slf good reply

[jkchawner]

i wont be being ignorant but i have a freind who was admitted to hospital last night with secondery cancer of the bowl and liver and i will have to be off here for a couple of hours while i go and visit him as things are not looking good for him at this time.

lifes just a bed or roses at the moment !

[SLF]

whereabouts do you live?

[jkchawner]

nottingham my unit is in derbyshire u ?

[DuaneJackson]

I can't read this thread any more, it's no good for my blood pressure!

jkchawner - I apologise for my fellow members who have nothing better to do but to post crap on your thread and try to make themselves look clever.

There are still a number of posts on this thread that, while critical, give very useful advice. Be grateful for those and don't rase to the bait from the others.

[jkchawner]

cheers mate :)

[Tej]

I can't read this thread any more, it's no good for my blood pressure!

jkchawner - I apologise for my fellow members who have nothing better to do but to post crap on your thread and try to make themselves look clever.

There are still a number of posts on this thread that, while critical, give very useful advice. Be grateful for those and don't rase to the bait from the others.

Thats absolute nonsense!.. is this with your mod hat on?

[jkchawner]

sounds good to me

[jkchawner]

Thats absolute nonsense!.. is this with your mod hat on?
mind u you would say that got bored coming back to give me some more greif are you ?:D

[DuaneJackson]

Respect begets respect... has he shown any?

If we all start out with the default position that you need to be shown respect before you'll respect someone - then noone ever respects anyone. Can you see that?

How about we start out with the default position of respecting people until they disrespect us? Wouldn't that be better?

Now go and read through all of your posts to this thread, Tej. You've done nothing except direspect the OP - why on earth should he have any respect left for you?

Infact, nevermind this thread. You only have 250 posts so I decided to have a quick look through them. Logical place to start is to go here (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=37289) to get a list of all your posts and skip to the last page to see when you first started posting.

I'm having trouble finding much of any value - all I see from you is sniping and antagonising - from day one!

[jkchawner]

It is important that UKBF remains free of spam and that irrelevant, redundant or duplicated material is kept to a minimum – UKBF is a community for business owners and managers whose time is precious. Please aim to achieve ‘one topic, one thread’ – with all of your posts relevant to the original thread question. It is acceptable to go ‘off topic’ occasionally given that such posts are of a good nature, however the moderators retain the right to intervene in ‘off topic’ posts if they appear to be significant and persistent deviations from the original thread, or if such posts contain inflammatory comment. In these cases, the moderators’ rights to move or delete posts, or to impose strikes or bans on members for inappropriate content will be enforced.

[SLF]

I wonder how many members the forum loses as a result of what is merely a handful of people using this sort of forum behaviour? It must turn people away at the door surely?

[RedMacbeth]

There are people who go on Dragons Den and ask for amounts that clearly they could get by remortgaging their homes or taking a bank loan , but they say they dont want to do that and the dragons seem to accept that reasoning as needing their investment.

As a fan of Dragons Den, if you watch any of the documentaries or read any interview then this is the worst statements you can say to a dragon (or potential investor). All of the dragons get quite angry that they should risk there own money and childrens inheritance when the person pitching for money is not prepared to risk their own money. Theo and Deborah particular state this is the worst pitch to make. Most investors will not back someone who will not risk any of their own money as it gives a worrying sign that the business may go under.

Anyway i think this thread is getting out of hand. Maybe we should draw a line under it?

[jkchawner]

i was very nearly one of them but decided i aint being bullied by no one.
i have just spent the last hour reading up on forum rules etc and no were im coming from on that score now thanks everyone for seeing both sides of this situation i have had a dig back myself as u no but it gets u no were from now on my mouth is zipped big time if they want to come on here showing off and bragging let them. they more than likely have got what they set out to do ruin any chance i had of finding an investor but chin up i will just have to make changes to my plans if i have to. i have offered a great chance for someone on here with cast iron gurantees's i cannot do any better than that no matter how hard i try.

[DuaneJackson]

Thats absolute nonsense!.. is this with your mod hat on?

No, it's with my "faintly annoyed with turnips" hat on.

But it's OK, you just made a post on another thread

This is almost entirely a newbie forum. Experienced business people get very little value from it whilst providing the majority of the educated content.



How very true.
Although for me it also provides a few laughs... helps some way to unwind.


Which to me implies you're only here for the comedy value. Which would make sense.

There's also the implication that you, like CJD, are an "experienced business [person]". Why not post in the Introductions forum and tell us all about it?

[jkchawner]

i have 100% said on here im willing to sign any form with any breif that will ensure that the amount invested is safe and will be paid back by myself within the time frame we allocate between investor and myself. even if it means me having to sell property car whatever

[jkchawner]

im going to wait and see now.
but will be readvertising on ebay for an investor which is were i got my first one many moons ago and he was more than happy with the results i gave in return,
come on people i have made a dam good offer to any investor starting off with a small investment first until u are happy with my return to you.
and the trust and respect will follow with ease

[RedMacbeth]

As a fan of Dragons Den, if you watch any of the documentaries or read any interview then this is the worst statements you can say to a dragon (or potential investor). All of the dragons get quite angry that they should risk there own money and childrens inheritance when the person pitching for money is not prepared to risk their own money. Theo and Deborah particular state this is the worst pitch to make. Most investors will not back someone who will not risk any of their own money as it gives a worrying sign that the business may go under.

I meant this as a general quote and no reflection on j.k chawners current business enquires.

[Esk247]

i think that the problem was initially that we had no idea what in the world the money was for...if we use dragons den as an example:

if you had given a full overview of the business proposition and the amount required for percentage of said business proposition people could then come to you with questions.

instead it turned out that everyone thought you were spamming and from then on its a downward spiral because anything you say gets rubbed in to the dust.

as i have no money to invest at this time..i'm out...hope it goes well though :)

[jkchawner]

I meant this as a general quote and no reflection on j.k chawners current business enquires.


What do you need the £20k for?
To buy some new trailers to do up, or buy equipment for doing them up?
If it's to buy the trailers, why not get an investor to buy the trailers, you
do them up, then split the profit?
That way the investor has some physical property to show for his investment

as pointed out by a previous guy on page 6 of this post
this i am offering so whats wrong with my pitch now ??
someone tell me were im going wrong please i have a good background selling trailers which has been looked at in detail by other members on here. im offering a 100% contract to say your money is safe and that i will repay any shortfall which there wont be anyway.
now forgive me but is that not a solid and safe investment ?

[jkchawner]

i think that the problem was initially that we had no idea what in the world the money was for...if we use dragons den as an example:

if you had given a full overview of the business proposition and the amount required for percentage of said business proposition people could then come to you with questions.

instead it turned out that everyone thought you were spamming and from then on its a downward spiral because anything you say gets rubbed in to the dust.

as i have no money to invest at this time..i'm out...hope it goes well though :)

thanks and i think u have summed it up very well my snappy attitude hasent helped me i no. hands up to that.
but i think u can all see now im no scammer and also that it is a genuine chance to make good money with no risk at all with what i am offering you.
im hoping someone can help
maybe they will maybe they wont
time will tell

[Raz]

give me a call!! 07710-023079

[jkchawner]

will call u in a bit raz got to go taxi outside have to go and visit a very sick freind in hospital be back on in about 2 hrs will ring u then
cheers

[Tom McClelland]

I can't read this thread any more, it's no good for my blood pressure!

jkchawner - I apologise for my fellow members who have nothing better to do but to post crap on your thread and try to make themselves look clever.

There are still a number of posts on this thread that, while critical, give very useful advice. Be grateful for those and don't rase to the bait from the others.

I have to disagree, I'm afraid Duane, and that's quite unusual for me.

Anyone who reads the expat link can see that it is obviously the same person making that post. With the same name, same writing style, same lack of punctuation, extremely similar vocabulary, same unusual paragraph formatting. Yet jkchawner claims that it is his ex partner who posted that, for some inexplicable reason pretending to be him! No. We weren't born yesterday. Up till that point I had mild sympathy for him, but that link exposes him as someone who is not being straight with us. It was a good find. If jkc wants to start again and tell the truth from the beginning this time he might get a better hearing.

The link bears repeating, in case anyone thinks jkc is on the level:

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:zuyEe4SSOmMJ:www.expatforum.com/expats/spain-expat-forum-expats-living-spain/14540-wanted-mobile-home-benidorm-swap-60k-per-anum-business.html+jkchawner&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk

[SLF]

@ Tom

Perhaps after the attempts to belittle amd humiliate him already in place from the off, that he felt he needed some sort of excuse which I later said was daft one.

Im sure by now he agrees he should have just told it as it was, so it has been straightened out since those earlier pages if you have read all 11 pages, so further repeating a link to continue this abuse is uncalled for, especially since a mod has intervened.

[Tom McClelland]

@ Tom

Perhaps after the attempts to belittle amd humiliate him already in place from the off, that he felt he needed some sort of excuse which I later said was daft one.

Im sure by now he agrees he should have just told it as it was, so it has been straightened out since those earlier pages if you have read all 11 pages, so further repeating a link to continue this abuse is uncalled for, especially since a mod has intervened.

He needed an excuse because of the mismatch between his posts here and his post elsewhere. Not because he was being abused here.

Posting a link to the OPs own words in another forum which make a completely different statement of his situation, aims, and intentions to that which he makes in this thread is "continuing this abuse" ? I'm going to stop posting in this thread before my blood pressure also rises too high. I'll leave you people to it.

[Matt1959]

if theres one thing I don't get about this forum its why people want to discuss all this stuff in public on a forum thread. Surely if someones half interested in whats offered, they'd PM the OP as soon as they get the bare bones info and go from there in private and if they aint interested - just move on or am I missing something:|

[jkchawner]

as i have stated before im not getting in to any more of these lynch partys go and upset someone else;)

[Chris Ashdown]

My point is that you need heaps of trust to invest in a company run by another person, the various posts by jkchawner state various answers that in some cases contradict each other or at a minimum raise doubts in many peoples minds

[dingbat]

if theres one thing I don't get about this forum its why people want to discuss all this stuff in public on a forum thread. Surely if someones half interested in whats offered, they'd PM the OP as soon as they get the bare bones info and go from there in private and if they aint interested - just move on or am I missing something:|

Because if you see something suspicious you want to warn others. I speak from bitter experience.
Yes, the OP could have told a lie and be otherwise genuine but too many things do not add up for me.

With ref to the Dragon's Den post - in Dragon's Den people do not guarantee a return of the Dragon's capital. If you can guarantee it then you may as well raise the funds yourself.

[jkchawner]

i have gave enough im willing to give anyone any proof they need but i aint being held to ransom for a few quid investment. which is what i have come down to to prove im the real deal. i already have 2 intrested partys now. with 1 firm offer on the table which i have refused because he wanted 40k back for a 20k investment over 6 months yeah right lol.
the other guy im waiting to hear back from still at this present time.

even after all that has been said etc on this site i won't be slagged of for mistakes for the way i have conducted myself for the simple fact that there are much worse and guilty people on here than i could ever be fact.

go back and read the crap some of you have posted then ask yourself this question did i reply like that because i thought it was cool at the time made me look bigger or i was being 100% honest
i doubt you could even tell the diffarence dingbat to be honest !

i no my spelling is no good.
i no i may come across as maybe a bad investment because you all think i have told porkys when i have not !
what you dont realise is the fact that i no what im talking about when it comes to my business that i no very well indeed fact !
and what makes me laugh more than anything above all
is not one person on here no's a good investment when they see one fact!
unless i get emails now of offers i wont even bother replying even if its in my favour because it just aint worth the bother to be honest.
i will come back on here when the investor has made his or her investment i have produced the goods split the profit and then tell me i was wrong and you were right !
when i was 23 years old (and im 43 now by the way) i won an award for best new leicester mercury business in leicester. now for all you who no your stuff do a search and instead of dragging crap up do something good for once. my business was called s&j alarms within 6 months i had 11 people working for me and was turning over 180k a year in the first year of business. i sold out the following year to a major alarm business in leicester for dam good money in them days. got married had the kids etc went through divorce lost it all and guess what im still here trying point being.
you cant keep a good man down.
i have never signed on in my life ever.
i have always been a hard working man and always always look after those who look after me and my family. and have repaid many people many hundreds of times over every penny back i have ever owed with intrest and more besides.
because thats how life is
no one gives you nothing for free in this life unless your a dole head
and that i aint and never will be.
now if there is an investor out there who is willing to take a chance on me im here i have made a very good offer of investment with all the security you could ever want in place to make sure your money is safe.
but if your hear to slag me off guess what you have missed the boat big time ! cause half the muppets on here have beat you to it.

all emails will be replied to but i aint wasting my breath on here no more unless they are genuine emails. all other emails will be ignored now enough is enough im afraid i have spent 2 days listning to crap already.
and thats enough for anyone good night all

[jkchawner]

ebay item number 180318163982 yes its me before any other idiot points it out i would like to show my hand as they say in cards and trust me this will produce results as it did 4 years ago when i needed a short term investor.
who was paid off in full by the way and left a very happy bunny
and before anyone says well why dont u go back to him then i may yet !

[adam]

okay let's get this back on track as it is not 6am on Sunday!

JCK (Ben?), IIRC your partner is leaving, was (s)he crucial to the day to day running of the business?

You need cash, is this to buy him out or for working capital?

For whatever reason, you have decided selling equity is better. This is a silent partner therefore getting 30% of the profit. With the £65k profit, have you taken a wage already or do you just take 70% of the profit leaving the investor £18k or so?

If so this seems a very good (too good?) deal for me to put in £20k now and get £18k a year for the next say 3 years and tripple my money.

I don't really have spare cash at the moment but I have an interest in your line of business and we are not that far away.

What sort of money does a refurbished trailer go for?

Thanks

Adam

[chalkie99]

I just wish I had a pound for every time he said he wasn't going to respond anymore :p.

[oldeagleeye]

So OK. It's a New Year. Obama will make his inaugural speech today which will generate a lot of goodwill in the world. Lets give the OP the benefit of the doubt then and sum up where he went wrong. Several of you have already done that in your own way. I have summed it up in 4 lines and given an example of how he should have presented his case. It is by no means definitive and just something I knocked out in a few min's. The difference is there to be seen however.

Terrible overall presentation.
No definition of figures
Inconsistent financial needs
The reference to ill health when he is a key player. The following perhaps is a more professional presenation.

BUSINESS OPORTUNITY
I currently run a business refurbishing catering units where I have a found a ready market on E-bay with net pre-tax profits of £65,000 pa over the last 4 years. Quite a respectable income from a 1 man business and I have used the money to establish myself on a sound personal financial footing and was quite happy with the status quo for a while. I do now feel however there is now scope for expansion and that with a modest cash injection of around £10K I could double existing profits with very little extra in operating costs.

The business itself for example already operates from 2,000 sq ft of secured workshops with a fixed and modest rent and I would only need I young apprentice whose wages would be mostly covered by government subsidy to increase productivity.

Worth a punt then at £10K with the money secured on stock and at a time when (1) The recession and redundancy means that more people than ever will be looking for an income which is easy to move into and mobile catering easily fits that bill. (2) £10K in a bank at less that 2% is hardly a return on capital. I am offering 20% of the company

[fathippy]

Dear Mr Oldeagleeye,

Thank you for your comprehensive and compelling business proposal. Please can you direct me to the relevant dotted line, so that I may daub my inky moniker thereon.

Regards
:)

[jkchawner]

the figures are before my wage thats profit for 2008 im more than happy to have someone on board short or long term to be honest as u can see my business is good very good for a one man band.

for the future i would love to have my own dedicated website as word soon gets around in the catering trailer world. and i no this would bring more business without a doubt. but my main concern for now is securing the money needed to get back on track working at the same pace i was not that long ago and generating better turnover and profits for 2009.

i have plans for manufacturing my own equipment as well which would cut down costs by a great deal and add around 20% per sale on the trailers i refit from empty. i have most of the machinery needed but t could do withupdating at some point to be able to manage this better. costs for that are not massive either around 5k mark this was the next step on are list before the partnership split.

i also tried a very clever niche trailer idea about 5 months ago with massive results which is a deff path to pick up again very soon infact to give u a clue of how well it went and how nice the end product was the guy whom it was made for (from scratch may i add) wanted it for glastonbury 2009 and it is a confirmed booking now for 09 this alone could be worth a small fortune as a new build i will try and add a photo of the trailer if it lets me im sure you will be impressed.

as for profits a quick guideline
pay between £500-£1000 return of 2.5-3k with ease
thats for a normal side of the road burgertrailer i do about 6 of these a month most months

showmans trailers
pay anywere from £1.5-2.5k with a return of between 5-7k on a nice one that you have spent another grand or so on.

4-5 on your normal run of the mill showmans thats just been painted up cleaned and a bit of swirl stainless steel in etc

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180312106243&ssPageName=STRK:MEAFB:IT

have a look at the link and see for yourself what i can do and that cost £1500 all in adam

regards shaun

[jkchawner]

So OK. It's a New Year. Obama will make his inaugural speech today which will generate a lot of goodwill in the world. Lets give the OP the benefit of the doubt then and sum up where he went wrong. Several of you have already done that in your own way. I have summed it up in 4 lines and given an example of how he should have presented his case. It is by no means definitive and just something I knocked out in a few min's. The difference is there to be seen however.

Terrible overall presentation.
No definition of figures
Inconsistent financial needs
The reference to ill health when he is a key player. The following perhaps is a more professional presenation.

BUSINESS OPORTUNITY
I currently run a business refurbishing catering units where I have a found a ready market on E-bay with net pre-tax profits of £65,000 pa over the last 4 years. Quite a respectable income from a 1 man business and I have used the money to establish myself on a sound personal financial footing and was quite happy with the status quo for a while. I do now feel however there is now scope for expansion and that with a modest cash injection of around £10K I could double existing profits with very little extra in operating costs.

The business itself for example already operates from 2,000 sq ft of secured workshops with a fixed and modest rent and I would only need I young apprentice whose wages would be mostly covered by government subsidy to increase productivity.

Worth a punt then at £10K with the money secured on stock and at a time when (1) The recession and redundancy means that more people than ever will be looking for an income which is easy to move into and mobile catering easily fits that bill. (2) £10K in a bank at less that 2% is hardly a return on capital. I am offering 20% of the company

thats 20000 sqf of space apart from that yes point taken

[jkchawner]

okay let's get this back on track as it is not 6am on Sunday!

JCK (Ben?), IIRC your partner is leaving, was (s)he crucial to the day to day running of the business?

You need cash, is this to buy him out or for working capital?

For whatever reason, you have decided selling equity is better. This is a silent partner therefore getting 30% of the profit. With the £65k profit, have you taken a wage already or do you just take 70% of the profit leaving the investor £18k or so?

If so this seems a very good (too good?) deal for me to put in £20k now and get £18k a year for the next say 3 years and tripple my money.

I don't really have spare cash at the moment but I have an interest in your line of business and we are not that far away.

What sort of money does a refurbished trailer go for?

Thanks

Adam
sorry adam i missed out on one of your points raised.
my partner was as good at the job as myself no better no worse. so the answer is no its not a crucial part of my business at all and im getting on great on my own. hope this clears that up as well.
and by the way its shaun not ben

[jkchawner]

okay let's get this back on track as it is not 6am on Sunday!

JCK (Ben?), IIRC your partner is leaving, was (s)he crucial to the day to day running of the business?

You need cash, is this to buy him out or for working capital?

For whatever reason, you have decided selling equity is better. This is a silent partner therefore getting 30% of the profit. With the £65k profit, have you taken a wage already or do you just take 70% of the profit leaving the investor £18k or so?

If so this seems a very good (too good?) deal for me to put in £20k now and get £18k a year for the next say 3 years and tripple my money.

I don't really have spare cash at the moment but I have an interest in your line of business and we are not that far away.

What sort of money does a refurbished trailer go for?

Thanks

Adam

oh and answer to the question about partner buy out thats all been done paid up and out of the way hence me being low on working capital

[jkchawner]

is there anybody there ????????????

[adam]

not with £20k to invest no!

But now we have a handle on it, if people wade through the past 12 pages you might get a bite.

Good luck.

[biglad09]

Been a long time lurking on this forum never felt the need to post, UNTILL I red through this post

I have to say that the OP is talking complete and utter rubbish, let me first start with the fact he claims that "the credit crunch doesn’t affect this"

What you failed to state here is that this is based on your opinion and not fact; you have no figures to back this up

I have been running and selling catering trailers in the south of England for over 15 years , we monitor eBay on a regular basis for trailers that may be of interest to us and we also sell off old or outdated trailers on eBay from time to time and I can confirm 100% that the op is talking rubbish , I have figures here that show a 40% reduction in trade for outside catering in the last 18months , also the average cost of a used trailer as fell by almost 60% in the last year ,

Op after seeing your eBay name I can see you have dropped you price from 20-30k down to just £5000

EBay item number 180318163982


But then seeing that your avage selling price is £2000 for a trailer, I can’t blame you

EBay item number 180315377005


Now going on your own figures you mut have paid around the £700 mark for the above trailer, so if you had £30k you mean to say you would buy these trailers in bulk? , I make that more than 40 trailers!!!! , who will sell them to you in bulk???

my guess is the credit cruch AS affected your little business , so much so that you are broke and you think you can come on here and pull the wool of somebody’s eyes , sorry but this really has made my blood boil

You figures don’t add up, infact almost all of what you say doesn’t add up, what is your company name? Will look you up on company’s house to see you true turn over and profit, you have no need to keep this to yourself surly?

As stated in a early post , you are simply a tradesman that can do the work to these trailers , you have no stock and no money to invest yourself , your old partner (if he/she ever existed) no doubt left you due to this fact

[SLF]

Who needs a crystal ball when you've got Judge Judy monotoring the forum to tell you exactly how it is!!

[jkchawner]

Been a long time lurking on this forum never felt the need to post, UNTILL I red through this post

I have to say that the OP is talking complete and utter rubbish, let me first start with the fact he claims that "the credit crunch doesn’t affect this"

What you failed to state here is that this is based on your opinion and not fact; you have no figures to back this up

I have been running and selling catering trailers in the south of England for over 15 years , we monitor eBay on a regular basis for trailers that may be of interest to us and we also sell off old or outdated trailers on eBay from time to time and I can confirm 100% that the op is talking rubbish , I have figures here that show a 40% reduction in trade for outside catering in the last 18months , also the average cost of a used trailer as fell by almost 60% in the last year ,

Op after seeing your eBay name I can see you have dropped you price from 20-30k down to just £5000

EBay item number 180318163982


But then seeing that your avage selling price is £2000 for a trailer, I can’t blame you

EBay item number 180315377005


Now going on your own figures you mut have paid around the £700 mark for the above trailer, so if you had £30k you mean to say you would buy these trailers in bulk? , I make that more than 40 trailers!!!! , who will sell them to you in bulk???

my guess is the credit cruch AS affected your little business , so much so that you are broke and you think you can come on here and pull the wool of somebody’s eyes , sorry but this really has made my blood boil

You figures don’t add up, infact almost all of what you say doesn’t add up, what is your company name? Will look you up on company’s house to see you true turn over and profit, you have no need to keep this to yourself surly?

As stated in a early post , you are simply a tradesman that can do the work to these trailers , you have no stock and no money to invest yourself , your old partner (if he/she ever existed) no doubt left you due to this fact

I HAVE ONE THING TO SAY TO YOU MATEY BOY
GO BACK AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK PLEASE AS YOU DONT HAVE ANY IDEA OF MY BUSINESS INFACT I DONT THINK YOU NO WHAT THE WORD BUSINESS EVEN MEANS !
GOT YOUR EBAY ID MATE 118 118

[openmind]

erm caps lock stuck?

[jkchawner]

erm caps lock stuck?
only when im piss*d off lol

[biglad09]

Just because you says FACT, doesn’t make it a fact, it’s just a word; it is only a fact if it can be backed up, something which you can’t do

Now I can tell you that you are not a Ltd company and you are not VAT registered

Now mistake me if I am wrong but £65k in profit alone would mean you need to be VAT registered

So you are either lying on your profit or you are breaking the law

And that my friend is a FACT which can be backed up, unlike your lies, and if you really want me to I can post all of these details onto this forum to prove it!!!

It’s amazing what can be found on the internet!!!

May I ask how much tax you paid on that £65k last year? ,

[jkchawner]

yes please post it all then ring the vat man

[jkchawner]

Just because you says FACT, doesn’t make it a fact, it’s just a word; it is only a fact if it can be backed up, something which you can’t do

Now I can tell you that you are not a Ltd company and you are not VAT registered

Now mistake me if I am wrong but £65k in profit alone would mean you need to be VAT registered

So you are either lying on your profit or you are breaking the law

And that my friend is a FACT which can be backed up, unlike your lies, and if you really want me to I can post all of these details onto this forum to prove it!!!

It’s amazing what can be found on the internet!!!

May I ask how much tax you paid on that £65k last year? ,


oh sorry i forgot and the tax man

[jkchawner]

biglad09 (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=41314), DuaneJackson (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=4275), edbk1203 (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=41284), Jon123 (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=5503), Tom McClelland (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=23494), Vision (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=32043)
eh here there all all viewing again must be boring in your lifes

[jkchawner]

Just because you says FACT, doesn’t make it a fact, it’s just a word; it is only a fact if it can be backed up, something which you can’t do

Now I can tell you that you are not a Ltd company and you are not VAT registered

Now mistake me if I am wrong but £65k in profit alone would mean you need to be VAT registered

So you are either lying on your profit or you are breaking the law

And that my friend is a FACT which can be backed up, unlike your lies, and if you really want me to I can post all of these details onto this forum to prove it!!!

It’s amazing what can be found on the internet!!!

May I ask how much tax you paid on that £65k last year? ,


hurry up then got a date with a pint biglad

[biglad09]

you claim to be a bussnessman and to know your market well , i susgest you re-read through half of the garbage you have writen , you have linked your ebay user id , you have made bold claims about your profits (which cant be backed up) you are not VAT registered you are not a Ltd company and you are not a sole trader , do you realy want me to keep digging?

[jkchawner]

you claim to be a bussnessman and to know your market well , i susgest you re-read through half of the garbage you have writen , you have linked your ebay user id , you have made bold claims about your profits (which cant be backed up) you are not VAT registered you are not a Ltd company and you are not a sole trader , do you realy want me to keep digging?

do what u want whatever turns u on you dont even no me my company name or fu*k all to do with me softlad.
i aint got any problem with whatever u think u can dredge out your gutter pal. and even if u do no me or name me or shame me then that just means your an even bigger *****r for being scared to show yourself. internet bullys lol
see me shaking think not.
if u new me that well the shaking would be on your end not mine carry on with whatever it is you want to do matey im not bothered dredge the bottom of the pit and pull up what u like.
cause this chap aint bothere infact im that bothered im going out half hour early now cause your as boaring as the ex mrs used to be and she found out the hard way as well.
private message me with your name business name and all aDdress,s concerened with yourself then i would be worried FOR YOU ! BIG TIME.
APART FROM THAT GO AWAY AND BOTHER SOMEONE WHO IS BOTHERED OR DO WHAT U SAY YOUR GOING TO DO EITHER THAT OR
SHUT THE FU*K UP

[biglad09]

do what u want whatever turns u on you dont even no me my company name or fu*k all to do with me softlad.
i aint got any problem with whatever u think u can dredge out your gutter pal. and even if u do no me or name me or shame me then that just means your an even bigger *****r for being scared to show yourself. internet bullys lol
see me shaking think not.
if u new me that well the shaking would be on your end not mine carry on with whatever it is you want to do matey im not bothered dredge the bottom of the pit and pull up what u like.
cause this chap aint bothere infact im that bothered im going out half hour early now cause your as boaring as the ex mrs used to be and she found out the hard way as well.
private message me with your name business name and all aDdress,s concerened with yourself then i would be worried FOR YOU ! BIG TIME.
APART FROM THAT GO AWAY AND BOTHER SOMEONE WHO IS BOTHERED OR DO WHAT U SAY YOUR GOING TO DO EITHER THAT OR
SHUT THE FU*K UP

its not hard to see your true colours is it? , i can now see the way you run your business must be similar to the way you talk!

intresting that you havent proven me wrong by posting your VAT number or disclosing the amount of tax you paid on that £65k ,

you claim i am a bully , mistake me if i am wrong but its seems to be you and only you that as done all the name calling all the way through this thread!

seem like if anybody doesnt aggree with your lies they are the bad bully that is sad and boring!!!

[jkchawner]

its not hard to see your true colours is it? , i can now see the way you run your business must be similar to the way you talk!

intresting that you havent proven me wrong by posting your VAT number or disclosing the amount of tax you paid on that £65k ,

you claim i am a bully , mistake me if i am wrong but its seems to be you and only you that as done all the name calling all the way through this thread!

seem like if anybody doesnt aggree with your lies they are the bad bully that is sad and boring!!!

JUST CAUGHT ME BEFORE I WAS OUT THE DOOR AH WELL
AS I SAID BULLY NAME AND SHAME ME THEN
RING THE TAX AND VAT PLEASE IM ASKING NICELY
AND ALSO PM OR PUT YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS ON HERE UNTIL YOU DO EITHER I AINT GOING TO BOTHER ANSWERING YOUR SAME CRAP OK !
AS FOR THE INVESTMENT ALREADY SORTED IT SO DO I GIVE A FLYING FU*K WHAT YOU THINK OR ANYONE ELSE.
REAL LIFE SITUATION IS YOUR A BULLY MATEY BOY.
AND CAN'T HANDLE THE FACT.
SO DO WHAT U GOTTA DO DO I LOOK BOTHERED ?
ANYWAY AS I SAID IM OFF OUT AND WONT BE ANSWERING ANY MORE OF YOUR CRAP UNLESS YOU WANT TO SORT IT OUT MAN TO MAN OK

[jkchawner]

jkchawner (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=40981), biglad09 (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=41314), downsouth (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=28842), edbk1203 (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=41284), Jon123 (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=5503), Tej (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=37289),
OH LOOK ME OLD MATE TEJ NOW WATCH IT YOU HAVE ALREADY HAD YOUR BUM SMACKED LOL

[biglad09]

[quote=
ANYWAY AS I SAID IM OFF OUT AND WONT BE ANSWERING ANY MORE OF YOUR CRAP UNLESS YOU WANT TO SORT IT OUT MAN TO MAN OK[/quote]




have your balls droped yet?

[jkchawner]

See Ya Later Girls

[biglad09]

See Ya Later Girls


but your still here

[openmind]

Funniest posts I've ever read. Thought the schools had gone back? :D

[Tej]

It has been a hilarious thread:)..

[RedMacbeth]

One of the negative feedback left for our friend JkChawner or Ben Williams or Shaun...left the following comment 'a very odd man'. I think this sums up this thread.

I think we should stop responding as it keeps adding fuel to the fire. Idle threats and bad language are not welcome on a business forum.

I wish the OP luck on his venture but unless anyone is interested(?) then can they PM rather than reply to the rambling posts.

Just my two pennies worth :)

[biglad09]

this must be the MERCEDES he drives round in

180300004440

[biglad09]

seems the buyer that brought that car also sells catering trailers and also lives in derbyshire

user id ikleleo

one of the 8 other user ids selling over £100k maybe or is this "the old partner" again

interesting feedback !

[DuaneJackson]

He's been banned now. Too many strikes for bad language.

[edbk1203]

Jesus, what happened... I started typing a post, had to stop doing that and go and help the wife with some bits and pieces and when I come back all hell has broken loose!!

For the record, this is what I had written before being called away...What an interesting thread... for all the reasons mentioned by previous "posters" I keep flitting from being interested in the possible investment opportunity to really being unsure as to whether I am or not, because some extremely valid points of contention have been raised by other contributors.

Nevertheless, I have the following questions for jkchawner, I don't mind if you prefer to answer them via PM or on the public forum:


Are you a sole-trader or is your company a Ltd company?
If your company is a Ltd company can you please provide me with your registered company name and/or number as I will be able to confirm it/them with companies house?
Are you VAT registered and if you are, can you please tell me the VAT number?
Do you have a copy of your most recently filed annual accounts for me to view?
What is the actual amount of cash you are looking for - On this forum the amount discussed has varied considerably, on Ebay you're asking for £5,000, on forums.teneric.co.uk you're asking for between £20k and £50k
If you do move to Benidorm later this year (expatforum.com), how will that affect the business and the investor that provides you the money you're after?
The £65k profit that you quote... was that Gross or Net profit?

Despite the more recent posts, I'm going to stick with using/giving jkchawner the benefit of the doubt and continue with what I was going to say....

jkchawner (note this is an observation and not an attack on your credibility) your attitude in some of your earlier posts, never mind the ones I've just come back to, is not going to win you many bonus points with potential investors because to someone who doesn't know you, you come across in your posts as someone who *could* be somewhat difficult to work with... however... to your credit and in defense of this, your Ebay Feedback (for the ID you have quoted) is 100% positive so you're obviously doing something right.

This in turn leads me on to my final question:


You mention that you have been selling these trailers on Ebay for a period of time, the Ebay ID you quote has not been operational for long, and the feedback for that Ebay ID, incorporates very little (that I can tell) actually relating to trailers... you mention elsewhere that you have other Ebay ID's and if you don't mind I'd like you to supply me with at least one that has more feedback relating specifically to these trailers so I can read other people's (outside of this forum) opinion of you and your business etc.

I look forward to hearing from you.

[edbk1203]

He's been banned now. Too many strikes for bad language.

Ah well... that happened before I finished posting too.

* - Note to self: Type faster and tell the wife to leave me alone when I'm on the confuser. :)

[SLF]

Maybe this guy doesnt circulate in professional business circles but to be honest his attitude isnt as bad as some people's here and I can see that him being brand new to the forum and who probably hangs around less white collar circles in his trade, would skip straight to the straight talk - the kind that most peole would actually love to say but can't (for obvious reasons not least a ban!!) but you know, cant blame the guy for getting wound up. Members here do wind OP's up and there reallyis no need for it. I mean, state an opinion but some people are just downright nasty in their approach.

[sirearl]

I suspect some of the trailers fell off the back of a lorry.!!

Earl

[lesliedocherty]

A lesson in how not to ask for funding indeed, funny thread tohugh

[Mister B]

Time to delete this thread?

Mister B

[openmind]

Personally I think it should stay as an example of how not to ask for investment...

[chalkie99]

Why would you want to delete something which might provide a valuable insight into the OP if you are researching one of his requests elsewhere via Google for example?

[lesliedocherty]

Yes, stupid to delete it,

Lings dragon den and this one are good examples

[lesliedocherty]

Why is it that people keep asking for the more volatile threads to be deleted, not just this one, do threads ever get deleted ???,

[SLF]

why are they ever gonna delete such threads? they bring in and keep the punters glued! There are far more reading forums than will ever take part in them.

[adam]

never delete. Threads like this are the reason people watch the soaps at Christmas.

As if real life is not bad enough, we love a bit of drama on our screens!!

[Mister B]

For what it's worth, I have no issue at all with controversial threads or confrontation between members, as long as "discussions" are undertaken in a professional manner. I do, however object to threads which have repeated bad language, personal insults and threats of violence.

Now, I'm a grown up guy whose seen his fair share of scraps, but there is a time and a place for everything. This is not the place for that type of behaviour and nor should it be encouraged. Sure, disagree, but in a controlled and professional manner. Failure to do so will discourage new members from joining, which can only be a bad thing. That is why I suggested that the thread be deleted.

Just my thoughts...

Mister B

[Ian J]

This thread has been a very poor relection on UKBF members many of whom could do well to adopt the idea that they shouldn't post something that they wouldn't say to the chap if face to face as more than one forum member would have likely had their face re-arranged for some of the comments that they have made whilst hiding anonymously behind the safety of their keyboards.

I'm sure that there must be one or two lurkers reading this thread that will be put off posting any requests for fear of being trampled by the herd.

[lesliedocherty]

I disagree, think some of the members done everyone a favour, dig a bit deeper and found a good few inconsistencies in his story.

by the end of it we had gathered he was evading tax & vat man, his mercedes was a van, his figures didnt add up and he was selling the £20k share for £5k on ebay.
all of this info only came to light beause of ukbf members, they should be thanked for theit input.

[SLF]

well after posting that if the guy is not guilty of the libel you just posted, let's hope he doesn't know how to take a screen shot of the pages. I've not long back read a UK case where guys on a forum got fined thousands for bringing another guy and his busines into disrepute by posting incorrect and defamatory statements like yours and the other member. It's just a jumbled up mix of numbers as easily and regularly happens on DD, but that doesnt mean they are dodgy. Even Ling got pulled up for quoting the wrong figures - does that mean she was purposely out to lie about her figures and defraud the dragons into investing with her? No.

[lesliedocherty]

SLF, he was asked repeatedly about it and he evaded, he doesnt exist as a sole trader, ltd company, stop being so soft, the guys gone and good riddanece

He was nothing but rude, objectionable, arrogant and was banned, the forum members done everyone a favour.

[SLF]

oh well then in that case he should have fitted in with one crowd here quite easily ;)

[lesliedocherty]

ha, well done, made me laugh

[adam]

I've not long back read a UK case where guys on a forum got fined thousands for bringing another guy and his busines into disrepute by posting incorrect and defamatory statements like yours and the other member.

That might be true but if the guy has not been identified enough to track him down and point the finger surely it is not an issue?

[SLF]

everyine now knows who jack horner is!

[ken_uk]

It could be the person who's ebay account(s) are in the thread, or it could be someone pretending to be that person in order to discredit them.

Mind you, the feedback is bad, getting people to leave feedback before the items have arrived is called feedback extortion, and against ebay's rules. So thats another thing not in the favour of whoever it was.

[fathippy]

Mind you, the feedback is bad, getting people to leave feedback before the items have arrived is called feedback extortion, and against ebay's rules. So thats another thing not in the favour of whoever it was.

Just out of curiosity - how does one find out when the items have arrived, or work out whether or not the feedback has pre-dated this or not?