Cheap & Cheerful Web Designer

[KidsBeeHappy]

Hi

I have courier who has a basic web project;

I need a 2 page basic website, (non transactional). And I need a logo and a banner ad.

The domains etc are all registered and basic hosting is with 1&1.

Looking for something cheap and cheerful, templates etc all OK.
Budget around £50

Contact me if interested.

[YODspica]

£50 ? you probably spend more on a pair of trainers :D.

[jgrock]

Hi

I have courier who has a basic web project;

I need a 2 page basic website, (non transactional). And I need a logo and a banner ad.

The domains etc are all registered and basic hosting is with 1&1.

Looking for something cheap and cheerful, templates etc all OK.
Budget around £50

Contact me if interested.

Very unfair budget... you need to add another zero at least... £500 - the amount of effort for £50... you pay cheap you will get cheap

[GreatSEO]

Cheap and Cheerful Web Designer????

Try www.lassany.com

Dave

[matt.chatterley]

Um. We can be quite cheerful, if that helps? :D

[YODspica]

Cheap and Cheerful Web Designer????

Try www.lassany.com (http://www.lassany.com)

Dave

I fail to note the cheerful part claim.

[UKSEOAgency]

we can be quite cheep and cheerfull on web designs - and as its only a 2 page site ill throw in the page creation as a xmas bonus

[sabian1982]

Try http://www.templatemonster.com/

Pick up a template for £25 and then get a medium priced coder/webmaster for an hours work adding your content and making any small edits you need.

[streetslocal]

Come on you lot be fair,some people dont have the budget at first.
What the hell its christmas:eek:
I can do it for them for £50.
If they take the hosting from us at £2.99 per month:)

Drop me a PM if intrested.

[oldeagleeye]

Streets. Have you seen old VM in Merlin on BBC - magic. Rob

[thedesigntailor]

Try http://www.templatemonster.com/

Pick up a template for £25 and then get a medium priced coder/webmaster for an hours work adding your content and making any small edits you need.

I think he needs a logo too. I would be interested to see the results of this. It's an incredibly low budget but I've seen people offering such prices on gumtree (with crap results though).

[streetslocal]

Streets. Have you seen old VM in Merlin on BBC - magic. Rob
Dont get it....:eek:

[streetslocal]

I think he needs a logo too. I would be interested to see the results of this. It's an incredibly low budget but I've seen people offering such prices on gumtree (with crap results though).
Couldnt do the logo in that price:redface:

[IT Training UK]

yup, you really need to up that price before you see a worthy job my friend.

[streetslocal]

yup, you really need to up that price before you see a worthy job my friend.

I happen to disagree.
Its profit profit profit for some people.
But im offering this as a ukbf offer to boxby as they are respected members of the forum.
And i would also make money from the hosting?

[Esk247]

i do websites at £10 per month for 2/3 pages and that includes the hosting but agreed..don't expect it to be some great flashy website with lots of clicky things and animations..we're talking istockphotos or a days photography if you're close enough or willing to pay for expenses.

decent websites with logo's etc are over £150 i usually find..thats for basic, quick work.

[360interactive]

decent websites with logo's etc are over £150 i usually find..thats for basic, quick work.


And the rest surely? :|

[KidsBeeHappy]

The customer (and I know of several hundred in exactly the same position) are people that use email all the time, pdas etc and mobile internet and acheive what they want from that. They are basically looking for a very basic webpage to act basically as an electronic business card. They are not looking for online sales, or transactions,just something that gives more information about their business. No flashy stuff, no animation. Just a very basic first toe into the website world.

[Esk247]

yes....a homepage thats quite colourful..can be a standard image using photoshop and then a contact us page....they can be nice and cheap..istockphoto images are nice for those! they look like a really nice A5 flyer then and print out well.

they can be very cheap.

£150 and the rest..? << not really...£150 or £20 per month for a semi-decent website these days...using a standard layout ofcourse, no tricky flash or in depth css just the basic html with a bit of css for the menus etc.

[PhillipB@PLS]

I have pmd you.

[EliteLimitedUK]

Ho Boxby,

Our website is down at the moment but can be certain for a UKBF member I can get my design team that will design your website for £30 Including a banner and logo.

We wont give you a cheap (crap) site, we will give you what we give all our customers who have tight budgets.

If you want You can contact me on EliteLimitedUK at Live co uk or you can call me on 280 3892 anytime from 9am to 11pm

We will give you some time to think about this offer, Or send me your details and I will get intouch with you.

Regards


EliteLimitedUK

[360interactive]

Ho Boxby,

Who you calling a 'ho' ???? :D

[streetslocal]

The customer (and I know of several hundred in exactly the same position) are people that use email all the time, pdas etc and mobile internet and acheive what they want from that. They are basically looking for a very basic webpage to act basically as an electronic business card. They are not looking for online sales, or transactions,just something that gives more information about their business. No flashy stuff, no animation. Just a very basic first toe into the website world.

Boxby,
Pm on its way

[JackieC]

I do a one-page-web plus 5x email accounts on a .co.uk domain for £48 for two years - £2 a month all in. The design is very basic - the client needs to give me some artistic scope for the design and that doesn't include a logo.

So, if the client can get a logo for incorporation into my design - we have an answer for £2 a month.

[computaguy]

Hi Boxby,

You know all about my courier software... my wife is a web designer too. I've been in your client's position and to be honest would welcome the work. Only proviso is that we publish a template and they provide the words/images since that can take the most time.

Our preferred host is also 1 and 1 so compatability rules!

[hargz]

I have a degree in website design.
Will give it a go for you.
PM me if needed.
Thanks
Sam

[Wez]

for £50

why not get a free one ,, and build it yourself.

you say it only has to be basic so dont pay to much.

give it ago before you spend any money.

As for logos ect , they are also free,, just ask any tagger on a forum that has taggers and they make them for free.

Unfortunatly because i,m new i,m not allowed to show you the sort of logos or designs we make.



:)

[Flying Hippy]

Hi Boxby,

Thanks for your help about uk delivery question i posted the other week.

I am a trained designer by trade and offer web hosting. If it a simple 2 page job dont mind doing it over my xmas break as am getting boarded at home.

If you need example of my work just pm me.

[SLF]

This is better than the January sales! I have no idea how some people make a living from such low prices.

[Esk247]

we don't really slf but a jobs a job..you hope that the customer will come back for more once they are impressed with your low prices and good work :)

doesn't always work out that way though! :(

[SLF]

but what more could they come back for? im not being dismissive, im just curious and amazed by such low prices. after all you have your overheads and taxed to come off that, so what salary must people be getting out of it? what profits are being made after all of those deductions? it must be very little, in which case you would need to sell a lot to make a lot.

[Esk247]

well some choose that method of sell alot and fast! telesales...marketing...top of google etc.

others choose the option that if they do a good job for £50 the customer will come back for updates and take a few business cards to pass on to friends..its a slow process but doesn't cost much in outlay actually and can build up in to a trustworthy customer base.

the market for web design is furiously competitive! some are now offering free websites entirely as they have spare server space and just take the option of having a little advert at the bottom of everyones website in the hope that people will click on it and actually buy something.

[Matt1959]

you lot competing on price so agressively like this must be bonkers!!! If someone comes back, they're coming back because you're cheap and for no other reason. Once cheap, always cheap and anyway, most people looking for this sort of thing are not after the cheapest job. Makes we wonder sometimes if all someone has got to compete on is price, whats the quality of their work really like:rolleyes:

[PointandStare]

Our website is down at the moment ...

Not exactly the most confidence setting example.

And I agree with Matt, cheap is cheap.
A website should never be gauged by price.

[streetslocal]

Tyhe quality of my work is more than enough for what the client needs.
And money for me is in the long term ie the hosting...

[Interconnect IT]

The low end web design/development market is seriously messed up - everyone wants to do web design, but the good stuff isn't easy to get into. Consequence is that the remaining scraps are fought over by small guys.

Really good, highly compatible, tested code costs money. No two ways about it. If you want cheap use something completely off the shelf - there's loads of cheap ad-free services from the likes of BT and similar which can give you an online presence. It'll probably be better quality and more reliable.

As for building up a customer base - is that really as valuable at that end as you might think? Do Google get their annual returns printed by the guy who did Larry's first business card? I very much doubt it. If you deliver cheap and cheerful they won't come back to you when they want expensive swish.

[streetslocal]

There is a fine line between cheap and tacky and value for money.

Why shouldnt i offer value for money if i am happy to do so?

As of January 5th we are launching some great packages in fact.

3 page brochure website design only £49.99 then £4.99 per month for hosting and includes a full cms system and free domain name and email addresses.

5 page brochure website design only £69.99 then £4.99 month for hosting and includes a full cms system and free domain name and email addresses.

And ecommerce websites with £49.99 set up fee and then only £9.99 per month with a personalised template of customers choice thats half the price of other companies such as EKM powershop.

[Matt1959]

There is a fine line between cheap and tacky and value for money.

Why shouldnt i offer value for money if i am happy to do so?

.

well I'm an ordinary punter and have nothing to do with the web industry and I fully support anyones wish to charge low prices. What galls me is that *usually* a really cheap job will be a bad job for the buyer - is this a fair statement?? What happens is they buy cheap stuff through innocence and naievty then 12 months down the line realise that they bought crap and that its better to spend some more money to get a decent job. Nothing wrong with cheap so long as customers are not being ripped off with rubbish work but when the price falls to a level that kind of gives the impression the provider is working for £5 an hour, for me, alarm bells begin to ring:|

[Tej]

but when the price falls to a level that kind of gives the impression the provider is working for £5 an hour, for me, alarm bells begin to ring:|

desperation stakes?

[Interconnect IT]

You're almost certainly offering a very different service to what we are. We're soon going to be offering some very cheap deals, but it's essentially off-the-shelf.

Your service is perfectly good and acceptable, but I'm pretty certain there's no custom web design in there? It'll be more a case of "here's our templates, pick one, fill in this form, and off we go!" We do offer a broadly similar service to small companies, but at a higher price because ultimately they're getting a day's worth of professional time. Costs money, that does.

[streetslocal]

Im in no means desperate and look at it this way.

I charge £50 for a brochure website which takes about 2.5 hours.

Then i charge per hosting at £3.99 per month subject to a 12 month contract.

Total price £97.88 for 2.5 hours.

Average at £39 per hour....

So thats not really desperation is it?

I get the benefit of recurring income which means i have an income come rain or shine which benefits me as my son can be taken into hospital at a moments notice but i still have an income.

Im not the cheapest and im not the most expensive but what i do offer is an alterntive for people and at a price they can afford.

Im not here to make my millions im here to ensure my family have a long term income which we now do.:)

[Matt1959]

I charge £50 for a brochure website which takes about 2.5 hours.

Then i charge per hosting at £3.99 per month subject to a 12 month contract.

Total price £97.88 for 2.5 hours.

.:)

so when you support your hosting clients with their queries, you work for free? and the more you get, the more of your time will be spent working for nothing:| I mean, if I raise a ticket with my hosting company, I bet they spend a minimum 15 minutes a time dealing with it. And, ongoing website support for buyers, you do that for nothing as well? I can see what you mean with the £39ph, but in reality, its nowhere near that for hours worked is it?

[streetslocal]

so when you support your hosting clients with their queries, you work for free? and the more you get, the more of your time will be spent working for nothing:| I mean, if I raise a ticket with my hosting company, I bet they spend a minimum 15 minutes a time dealing with it. And, ongoing website support for buyers, you do that for nothing as well? I can see what you mean with the £39ph, but in reality, its nowhere near that for hours worked is it?
I have such little downtime that support costs are minimal.

[Interconnect IT]

It's not just about downtime. It's surprising where the queries come from. Today one of our clients complained that titles don't show on her website. We use sIFR, which means Flash is required. If there's a problem with the Flash install, or Flash has crashed, it can cause issues. Not our fault or problem, and all she needed was to restart her computer, but it still takes time to deal with the issue.

Every day brings issues like this and it's very hard to charge for them, so we end up not doing so. It costs us money and gives the clients good support, but if our hourly rate was pared down we'd be struggling.

However, ours is a full service offering, and yours is a budget one. They're different, and I think actually that most clients understand the difference. We can advise in both directions. I often send away potential clients because we and they are not necessarily a good fit. By keeping a good fit we get something like a 90% annual retention rate.

[matt.chatterley]

Some really good comments by various posters here (on all three sides of the coin).
Interconnect - I think you're right on the money when you say customers understand the difference.

We aren't in the budget market either, as we tend to offer fully managed/hosted bespoke solutions - when people want to do something beyond the norm, and often in this case they already have expectations as to the budget they will require, and so forth.

That said, the "budget" market (almost feel as if that sounds a bit derisive, which it isn't supposed to), shouldn't be overlooked - there are many, many people who don't want a free solution (DIY), but don't want to go fully into something with bells and whistles flying!

[streetslocal]

Budget does not affect the support we offer.
Anything but...
We offer a full support package and often go beyond the call of duty to help people.
I actually find myself happy at the end of the day to have people thanking you for dedicated support.
This years annual retention is currently 93% so i can say so far so good.

The good thing about our service we offer various levels of design from basic through too bespoke.

I can honestly say there is not a job to big or too small.

For example www.streetslocal.co.uk is a project i have built from scratch with pure handcoding and thats not a small job...:redface:

[myroundbox]

Personally i offered to do the job because it's 2 html pages of content... Thats not a hard job, at all. Someone is looking for a basic website for little cost, it wouldn't take long for me to do and it helps them out - and i'd get £50 for it, which being a student is nothing to be sniffed at.

I actually like designing websites and coding, it's not all about money for me. At least not yet...

[Big J]

Same old thing, you get what you pay for.

If you want to portray your business as a pile of pants for £50 then go for for it, although I think your doing more harm than good. Even just a 'business card' site.

Is this thread a joke?

[streetslocal]

Same old thing, you get what you pay for.

If you want to portray your business as a pile of pants for £50 then go for for it, although I think your doing more harm than good. Even just a 'business card' site.

Is this thread a joke?

No the thread is not a joke at all....
Whats your business?

Fast food?

[KidsBeeHappy]

Same old thing, you get what you pay for.

If you want to portray your business as a pile of pants for £50 then go for for it, although I think your doing more harm than good. Even just a 'business card' site.

Is this thread a joke?


There are lots of hosts where you can register a domain, and use a free template builder site, and within an hour or so have a site up and running. Using stock photos, templates etc. Total cost £2.99 pa domain registration cost.

Yes, it's not the best for SEO.
Yes, it's not uniquely different
Yes, it's probably not the most professional way to sell your business
Yes, anyone vaguely in the know will look at it and say "it's just a template site".

There is a lot of snobbery on here when it comes to websites. Mainly because the people here earn the majority of their income through websites (either designing or using them to sell services).

But there are still millions of UK businesses, small business, where the use of the web is untapped. And streetslocal probably has a very good idea of this because his core customer base of Tradesmen are exactly one of those markets.

There are some tradesmen here who have embraced the use of the web, produced good websites, and used them to sucessfully harvest good business. No-one is arguing that a proper built and more expensive website won't stand head and shoulders above a cheap quick template site.

It's a bit like the business cards, yes, probably designed and printed business cards are lovely, but the Vistaprint freebies do do the job, they may not leave the same impression, but it's better than scribbling your number down on a scrappy bit of paper.

However, you are wrong to dismiss a market of over a million small businesses, because you consider what they want to be "pants". Many of whom are not prepared to invest £1000+ in a website that they don't know whether it will have any real impact on their business, and many of whom simply don't have a marketing budget of £1000.

If you help and nuture these businesses at this stage, instead of just calling them a "joke", you build a customer base for the future. They wonder why other businesses websites look better and perform better, and then you can start to educate and move onto the more comprehensive websites.

I can sure as heck tell you that our first website cost under £100. I can also tell you that the first significantly big budget website which we have cost over £10k, and really was "pants", and performed less well than the cheaper first one.

Where do you think you're work is coming from in 2009? Do you see many businesses upgrading to signifcantly more expensive and comprehensive websites, or do you predict some entrenchment. If it's the latter, where is your new business going to come from - i'll suggest that it will be folk like my couriers, and i'll predict that it won't be top budget projects.

[streetslocal]

There are lots of hosts where you can register a domain, and use a free template builder site, and within an hour or so have a site up and running. Using stock photos, templates etc. Total cost £2.99 pa domain registration cost.

Yes, it's not the best for SEO.
Yes, it's not uniquely different
Yes, it's probably not the most professional way to sell your business
Yes, anyone vaguely in the know will look at it and say "it's just a template site".

There is a lot of snobbery on here when it comes to websites. Mainly because the people here earn the majority of their income through websites (either designing or using them to sell services).

But there are still millions of UK businesses, small business, where the use of the web is untapped. And streetslocal probably has a very good idea of this because his core customer base of Tradesmen are exactly one of those markets.

There are some tradesmen here who have embraced the use of the web, produced good websites, and used them to sucessfully harvest good business. No-one is arguing that a proper built and more expensive website won't stand head and shoulders above a cheap quick template site.

It's a bit like the business cards, yes, probably designed and printed business cards are lovely, but the Vistaprint freebies do do the job, they may not leave the same impression, but it's better than scribbling your number down on a scrappy bit of paper.

However, you are wrong to dismiss a market of over a million small businesses, because you consider what they want to be "pants". Many of whom are not prepared to invest £1000+ in a website that they don't know whether it will have any real impact on their business, and many of whom simply don't have a marketing budget of £1000.

If you help and nuture these businesses at this stage, instead of just calling them a "joke", you build a customer base for the future. They wonder why other businesses websites look better and perform better, and then you can start to educate and move onto the more comprehensive websites.

I can sure as heck tell you that our first website cost under £100. I can also tell you that the first significantly big budget website which we have cost over £10k, and really was "pants", and performed less well than the cheaper first one.

Where do you think you're work is coming from in 2009? Do you see many businesses upgrading to signifcantly more expensive and comprehensive websites, or do you predict some entrenchment. If it's the latter, where is your new business going to come from - i'll suggest that it will be folk like my couriers, and i'll predict that it won't be top budget projects.

That has summed up my feelings exactly.
There are web designers who cater for the blue chips like Nike etc and then theres the designer who caters for the local big businesses and then theres the designer who cater for the small business owners.

I could happily design for both but my market is the smaller business owner as its quite an untapped market as such.

I also agree with the snobbery within the website design business as there are many old school designers who cannot accept change and then there is the new designers who have been trained by the old school.

Web design is a tricky game in all elements and its simply horses for courses.

But i am confident my websites perform for the people that are paying me and they are more than happy to pay as they are getting very good results from such a small outlay.

One business last year cleared a £180,000 profit from a website like this and his income was purely from the website as he was a national business.


So with that in mind the websites do work and work very well.

[Big J]

However, you are wrong to dismiss a market of over a million small businesses, because you consider what they want to be "pants". Many of whom are not prepared to invest £1000+ in a website that they don't know whether it will have any real impact on their business, and many of whom simply don't have a marketing budget of £1000.

If you help and nuture these businesses at this stage, instead of just calling them a "joke", you build a customer base for the future. They wonder why other businesses websites look better and perform better, and then you can start to educate and move onto the more comprehensive websites.

Where do you think you're work is coming from in 2009? Do you see many businesses upgrading to signifcantly more expensive and comprehensive websites, or do you predict some entrenchment. If it's the latter, where is your new business going to come from - i'll suggest that it will be folk like my couriers, and i'll predict that it won't be top budget projects.

Didn't mean to offend, sorry.

I just don’t see the point in a £50 website. What’s it going to achieve apart from displaying a tacky image.

Tacky image = tacky job - sorry but I wouldn't be the only one who feels this way, whether consciously or sub-consciously.

BTW, I never said the business was a joke - just the thread. I also believe that yes, judging by the news stories in the run up to Christmas regarding online shopping I think 2009 will be big for all things web related and in turn a good year for you.

[KidsBeeHappy]

I see your points, and am not arguing that a properly built bespoke site will be better.

What it will acheive is to give the courier companies in question a couple of pages to explain to customers about regular routes that they cover, about specialisms with particular types of products (ie antiques etc), to provide details about the geographic areas that operate in, details of european trips etc, to give their contact details, to provide details of their types of vehicles, oneman/twoman deliveries etc.

That they can use to link through to websites like ours where they are bidding for work. A couple of pages where they can include information that you simply can't in a 200 character box.

What it will acheive is a first toe in the website world.

If we go back along the chain, there are very few small business who completely START with a properly designed and bespoke coded site, it's something that you progress/evolve to. Many of my members are at this very first stage.

p.s. no offense taken - i have very thick skin!

[streetslocal]

www.telfordsecurity.co.uk is a site that falls within our offer.

This is not a bad looking site is it?

And look at the google postions:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=retail+security+guards+in+telford&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=security+guards+in+telford&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=construction+security+guards+in+telford&spell=1

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=dog+security+in+telford&spell=1

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=security+in+telford&meta=




So with these results in mind the company do very well and there happy with the results and they can make changes to the site as needed and as required.

[Matt1959]

[quote=streetslocal;724454]www.telfordsecurity.co.uk (http://www.telfordsecurity.co.uk) is a site that falls within our offer.



quote]

is this a 69.95 job? can the client upload stuff to it themselves? ok I put my hands up here.:redface: I'd say that is more than adequate for a starter website for a trades website. The point is, most of Joe Public havn't a clue whats a great site and whats not and for most of them this sort of site would be fine imho. Real life pics intead of stock ones would inject a bit of real life into it though. But still, at £69 each (forget the ongoing hosting thats a seperate entity however you dress it up) you'd have to be doing between 2 and 3 a day. Thats 12 sites a week, 48 sites a month, 576 sites a year - thats one hell of alot of orders to get and sites to produce:eek:

[streetslocal]

[quote=streetslocal;724454]www.telfordsecurity.co.uk (http://www.telfordsecurity.co.uk) is a site that falls within our offer.



quote]

is this a 69.95 job? can the client upload stuff to it themselves? ok I put my hands up here.:redface: I'd say that is more than adequate for a starter website for a trades website. The point is, most of Joe Public havn't a clue whats a great site and whats not and for most of them this sort of site would be fine imho. Real life pics intead of stock ones would inject a bit of real life into it though. But still, at £69 each (forget the ongoing hosting thats a seperate entity however you dress it up) you'd have to be doing between 2 and 3 a day. Thats 12 sites a week, 48 sites a month, 576 sites a year - thats one hell of alot of orders to get and sites to produce:eek:

Yes this site falls within our pricing mentioned in this thread and im glad you liked it:)
In regards to pricing your sums mentioned above would give a recurring income of £2298 per month ontop of any bespoke work in one year and that would double in the second and triple in the third:eek:


But we dont make that many a day so its not that bad.

[Carl-CSNM]

Does your website/hosting stuff fall under another brand or is it just under streetslocal?

[Matt1959]

hang on,, I didnt say I liked it, I said it's adequate - get what you pay for and all that, no slur intended;)

[streetslocal]

Does your website/hosting stuff fall under another brand or is it just under streetslocal?
That would be telling....:D

Expect a full announcement in january....

Expect some very good deals as im sure our redesigned webdesign site will open up the design market for the better.

[streetslocal]

hang on,, I didnt say I liked it, I said it's adequate - get what you pay for and all that, no slur intended;)
Admit it....:D

You think its good value for money and the seo results were good:D

Go on admit it...

Its the season og goodwill.

And yes this is a full CMS system to allow the customer to edit it and make changes.

[Matt1959]

:rolleyes: admit what:| its not great, its adequate:)
I must say though, as a tradesman, I havn';t seen ONE web design firm that has latched on to the fact that theres a demand for reaonably effective cheapo sites and if they have, their message doesnt come through that they're doing this at all. With local seo being easier to get, I'd have thought its business waiting to be had but no one seems to have latched onto this in a defined way anywhere. Telling savvy tradesmen that are out in all weathers working their nuts off that you get a crap website for anything under £500 is the kiss of death imho:rolleyes:

maybe I'm talking rubbish here:|

[streetslocal]

Designers please show me a site that you have done for tradesmen and give an indication of pricing you have charged for that project?

[360interactive]

Is it me, or did a thread just disappear?!

[lex]

Come on you lot be fair,some people dont have the budget at first.
What the hell its christmas:eek:
I can do it for them for £50.
If they take the hosting from us at £2.99 per month:)

Drop me a PM if intrested.


I wouldnt choose a designer, who in my opinion based his design so closely to that of another website a.k.a freeindex.co.uk.

[lex]

Meh cant be bothered with the hassle.

[SLF]

well I think streetslocal has identified a gap in the market and he also says there is a market in thre gap, so now that a nice little earner has been disclosed, i'm sure many designers reading but not participating in this thread will be able to target the tradesman in 2009.

[360interactive]

I wouldnt choose a designer, who in my opinion based his design so closely to that of another website a.k.a freeindex.co.uk.

That's the one, it just vanished, got me confused.:|:|

In defence of streets, I think the layout of many index sites is almost identical, and if it works, why try and fix it?

I think people need to keep in their minds that different industries have different needs when it comes to websites. If I needed a web designer, would I go with someone who's site looked like a dogs dinner? Probably not.

If I was choosing a local plumber, sparky etc, the look of their site would not make a darn difference. As long as they had credentials and contact details listed, that would do me.

[Airia]

Why not use Moonfruit & design/host your own? Seems simple to use & is Free if you can handle Google Adverts

[tony84]

try oswd.org open source web design, there are hundreds of free coded templates on there providing you lleave their name in the footer usually.
Pretty fair considering your saving £50.
OR

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=719177#post719177

[streetslocal]

Or come on board with us....:D

[Esk247]

streetslocal does the same thing i've done in the past with another business...getting trades people online! they are notoriously difficult you know and to say 'oh well you need to pay £500 minimum for a decent website' will get you laughed out of their work area.

they don't care about css, flash, google ranking, imaging and coding they say 'just give me a website that works because my sons been hassling me all week about we must have a website blah blah' and so thats what us small website designers give them...a small place on the web with perhaps a template design that takes just a few hours to sort out..theres minimal servicing required on our part as the websites dont have an online shop and don't have any log-in system they are just 2 or 3 pages of simple and easy to read html giving information about their company.

if they want to expand they generally know they have got to pay more to get more and they understand this...but trades people and shop keepers in general just want at least something because their son or daughter has been badgering them about it for months.

thats my experience here in Whitby anyway.

[Big J]

www.telfordsecurity.co.uk (http://www.telfordsecurity.co.uk) is a site that falls within our offer.

This is not a bad looking site is it?



IMO this website is wrong on SO many levels - first impressions count and I reckon you should be telling your customer this. If they are using their website as it should be, a marketing tool, this could be costing them business not gaining it. Looks amateurish, so will they be? I might not take the chance.

[streetslocal]

IMO this website is wrong on SO many levels - first impressions count and I reckon you should be telling your customer this. If they are using their website as it should be, a marketing tool, this could be costing them business not gaining it. Looks amateurish, so will they be? I might not take the chance.

So a website that has trippled there income and gets them many enquires is costing them business?
The search engines postions are costing them business?

So the MR BIG JOHN care to share what business you are in and do you have a website?

[zoezoe]

:rolleyes: admit what:| its not great, its adequate:)
I must say though, as a tradesman, I havn';t seen ONE web design firm that has latched on to the fact that theres a demand for reaonably effective cheapo sites and if they have, their message doesnt come through that they're doing this at all. With local seo being easier to get, I'd have thought its business waiting to be had but no one seems to have latched onto this in a defined way anywhere. Telling savvy tradesmen that are out in all weathers working their nuts off that you get a crap website for anything under £500 is the kiss of death imho:rolleyes:

maybe I'm talking rubbish here:|

We have - http://www.budgetwebsites.co.uk/ - still not quite £50. but £250+ vat all in for the first year, some bespoke design elements, full support, after that its just the cost of the hosting and you are free to move that if you wish...

Plus we do bells and whistles (just launched http://www.falklands.gov.fk/ ) for when your budget expands...

[streetslocal]

We have - http://www.budgetwebsites.co.uk/ - still not quite £50. but £250+ vat all in for the first year, some bespoke design elements, full support, after that its just the cost of the hosting and you are free to move that if you wish...

Plus we do bells and whistles (just launched http://www.falklands.gov.fk/ ) for when your budget expands...

So this site you have in the portfolio would fall within the £250 mark?
www.japlasteringcontractors.co.uk

[Matt1959]

We have - http://www.budgetwebsites.co.uk/ - still not quite £50. but £250+ vat all in for the first year, some bespoke design elements, full support, after that its just the cost of the hosting and you are free to move that if you wish...

Plus we do bells and whistles (just launched http://www.falklands.gov.fk/ ) for when your budget expands...

sorry, what I should have made clearer is that I havn't seen anyone targeting tradesmen with value of money websites with tradesmens specific wants in mind (well, on UKBF or anywhere else where it jumps out) Your site is like all the hundreds of others - the same:)

[streetslocal]

If anybody would like to discuss a quote for a website or our packages you can click the link in the signature below and we will assist you with any questions.

Im online during office hours and for UKBF MEMBERS most of the evening.:D

[Big J]

So a website that has trippled there income....

hmmm......

[streetslocal]

hmmm......

Big J....
What web design skills do you have?
Have you designed a website at all?

If so please share the website you have built?

Did you build this with a mouse in one hand and scissors in the other hand:)
As i noticed your a hairdresser

[biomed86]

This is such an interesting thread! I have to say, in streetslocal's defense - i dont think there is anything wrong with taking up the offer to do a website for £50. It doesn't necessarily reflect on their usual standard of work, but more that someone has been kind enough to help the OP, who stated they were on a low budget. To me, it's no different for example to people offering free logo designs in the offers section - I got myself a fantastic logo design (for free) from thedesigntailor, and I'm sure many would agree that his work is definitely of a high standard.

If other web designers feel £50 is too little to charge, then thats no problem, don't take up the offer. But there really is no need to jump to the conclusion that the website will be cr*p!

Just what I think...I'm ready to be told off! :)

[SLF]

I think its fair to say in life we get what we pay for so there is no surprises really.

I think best those who think cheap = crap consider what other things they buy in life that they cut back on or choose to find cheaper deals for.

Do they buy all of tesco's 'finest' range? have they ever shopped in Iceland, Netto, Lidl, Ikea or Argos or does all there hosuehold items and food come from M&S and John Lewis & Debenehams?

Do they spend £80 on an haircut every month or do they spend £20 once every 2-3 months or even just get their other half or their mum or sister to do it?

Do they shop round for the cheapest insurance for the car or do they go and buy the top dog all singing all dancing inclusive best policy every year?

Do all the clothes have good labels or do some items come from matalan or littlewoods catalogue or Asda George now and again? Or do they all shop at exclusive expensive shops for all their clothing?

I think it's a case of how people prioritise what an item or a service is worth to them and where it falls in the list of essentials. That list does move up and down in life acording to bank balance, status and necessity.

[Big J]

Big J....
What web design skills do you have?
Have you designed a website at all?

None and nope, I'm into marketing and branding.



As i noticed your a hairdresser

I have a hair salon but I'm not a hairdresser - sorry!

[Big J]

I think best those who think cheap = crap consider what other things they buy in life that they cut back on or choose to find cheaper deals for.

I think it's a case of how people prioritise what an item or a service is worth to them and where it falls in the list of essentials. That list does move up and down in life acording to bank balance, status and necessity.

Exactly, I recent client of mine recently slashed his Yell advertising of £6000 by half, then used £700 of the savings for a decent website.

[sirearl]

I think its fair to say in life we get what we pay for so there is no surprises really.

I think best those who think cheap = crap consider what other things they buy in life that they cut back on or choose to find cheaper deals for.

Do they buy all of tesco's 'finest' range? have they ever shopped in Iceland, Netto, Lidl, Ikea or Argos or does all there hosuehold items and food come from M&S and John Lewis & Debenehams?

Do they spend £80 on an haircut every month or do they spend £20 once every 2-3 months or even just get their other half or their mum or sister to do it?

Do they shop round for the cheapest insurance for the car or do they go and buy the top dog all singing all dancing inclusive best policy every year?

Do all the clothes have good labels or do some items come from matalan or littlewoods catalogue or Asda George now and again? Or do they all shop at exclusive expensive shops for all their clothing?

I think it's a case of how people prioritise what an item or a service is worth to them and where it falls in the list of essentials. That list does move up and down in life acording to bank balance, status and necessity.

I think its fair to say in life we get what we pay for so there is no surprises really.

Afraid the above statement does not hold true.

In life one gets what one negotiates for as a rule.

price is no guarantee of quality.

Price is the sucker senario aften use by marketing people.

Diamonds were of very little value until they came up with the idea that they had a romantic connection.

Many products sold by M&S are crap.

But the brand name carries them through.

Quality is not necessarily expensive.

But lack of knowledge sure can be.:D

Earl

[streetslocal]

None and nope, I'm into marketing and branding.



I have a hair salon but I'm not a hairdresser - sorry!

And you were an IT TECHINICAIN on other threads???

So your a hairdresser whos into marketting and fixing your computer?:|

[zoezoe]

So this site you have in the portfolio would fall within the £250 mark?
www.japlasteringcontractors.co.uk (http://www.japlasteringcontractors.co.uk)

Kind of. That website was written 2 years ago now and they did not pay £250. However it is a reasonable example of a budget website. This is probably a better on for a tradesman on a simular budget http://www.davidrichards-decorator.co.uk/index.html

[zoezoe]

sorry, what I should have made clearer is that I havn't seen anyone targeting tradesmen with value of money websites with tradesmens specific wants in mind (well, on UKBF or anywhere else where it jumps out) Your site is like all the hundreds of others - the same:)

I dont understand why the trademen woudl need to be targeted? If they want a value for money website then they can buy one teh same place as the accountant or the hairdresser. Why are their needs any different? At the end of teh day the website it just code (which can be the same regardless of content), design and content. The content is to be supplied by the trademen.

What makes their needs different from other small businesses?

[Big J]

So your a hairdresser whos into marketting and fixing your computer?:|

I've told you I'm not a hairdresser but your somewhere along the lines with the IT and Marketing.

Why are you trying to dig for information? Touched a nerve, have I? Sorry if I have but if it's going to get personal I don't want to continue this discussion with you as we are going off subject on an interesting thread. Lets agree to disagree.

[Big J]

What makes their needs different from other small businesses?

Nothing, your quite right.

Every business, even more so in these times, needs a quality online presence - its not something that you should scrimp on. As I've said before, you may be doing more harm than good if your website is pants.

[streetslocal]

I've told you I'm not a hairdresser but your somewhere along the lines with the IT and Marketing.


It was because i asked if you had any web design experience?
So i looked at your threads:

Hairdresser thread (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=66925)

IT TECHINICAIN THREAD (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=63576)

Your career crossroads (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=73977)

Oh and then i wondered if you owned a web design company as you have started two threads about the same company:


http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=83831

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=82815

[ABCStudio]

Personally i don't object to cheap websites, not everybody needs something all singing all dancing and in many industry's simply the fact that you have a few images of your previous work available will speak volumes.

I do however find some of these threads (not necessarily this one) quite offensive, I imagine if I was to ask the OP's courier to transport a box across town for a fiver because all i need is it throwing in a van and a bit of driving and after all any monkey can do that I'm pretty sure he would tell me exactly where to go.

If you want a cheap web site then fine, but dont be supprised if some highly skilled workers take offence when you value what the do so little.

[streetslocal]

everybod seems to be making the assumption that quality is based on price but i dont feel it it.

I could match most companies for design,and coding and quality and usually for a more competive price.:)

But its not about that i simply enjoy what im doing and this forum is about helping each other and not undercutting and slagging off everybody unless some member makes an exception to the rule and with that i will stand my ground.

Many of the older more established members understand the core elements of this forum and make it a joy and then you have the odd member who never bothers to make the effort to post unless looking to make a sale.

[Matt1959]

I dont understand why the trademen woudl need to be targeted? If they want a value for money website then they can buy one teh same place as the accountant or the hairdresser. Why are their needs any different? At the end of teh day the website it just code (which can be the same regardless of content), design and content. The content is to be supplied by the trademen.

What makes their needs different from other small businesses?

well that kind of illustrates my point if you have to ask the question really. Tradesmen by definition usually are away from the PC all day - maybe a designer could offer an evening service between 7 and 9 or something.

Tradesmen are uaually pretty PC illiterate and are almost always cynical of paying for this sort of thing and should be approached accordingly - perhaps some dumb arse explanation of the basics of email and basic website workings would be useful to have, expecting them to deal with you and react to you in the same way as an office based business would be a mistake I think.

Also, if you target a particular group, are you not going to make that group of people think that you have a special package for THEM and that you are the people they should be using? For example, a garage who decides to specialise in say cam belt changes is going to get more of that work if they highlight they do them as opposed to a garage that offers general work *including belt changes.

I should imagine sooner or later on here, some web provider will pop up offering all these things in an easy to explain manner and slowly they will pull in work from tradespeople - no guesses for who thats gonna be here:rolleyes:

[streetslocal]

maybe a designer could offer an evening service between 7 and 9 or something.


We offer live chat until 10pm through our website:)

[Big J]

the odd member who never bothers to make the effort to post unless looking to make a sale.

Was that a pop at me streets?

[SLF]

err there's a handful on this thread alone offering their services. Its prolific on this forum throughout most threads with people pushing their services in what is supposed to be a discussion not a sales pitch fest.

[Big J]

err there's a handful on this thread alone offering their services. Its prolific on this forum throughout most threads with people pushing their services in what is supposed to be a discussion not a sales pitch fest.

I know, although I have never touted for business on this site - ever. Just wondered why streets has tried to get personal?

[SLF]

I dont know but I agree, he does seem to be making it personal. Why it should matter if you are a web designer or a hairdresser I dont know, he didnt explain when he asked, what difference it would make or why he wanted to know. Perhaps you should ask.

[streetslocal]

I dont know but I agree, he does seem to be making it personal. Why it should matter if you are a web designer or a hairdresser I dont know, he didnt explain when he asked, what difference it would make or why he wanted to know. Perhaps you should ask.
Didnt make it personal at all...
And it was not intended in that manor.
But for the poster to openly fly comments at me in the way he did about the website design so i asked for his reasoning and wanted to know on what judgement he made it.

And i wanted to know if he was a hair dresser or an IT techinican or does he own the company he has started two threads about.

As he seemed to be putting a sales pitch onto one thread which would i thought he may own the very web design firm he was asking questions about.

NOW THE OPEN QUESTION IS DO YOU OWN THESE WEB DESIGN FIRMS?

[Big J]

As he seemed to be putting a sales pitch onto one thread which would i thought he may own the very web design firm he was asking questions about.

NOW THE OPEN QUESTION IS DO YOU OWN THESE WEB DESIGN FIRMS?

This is starting to get a bit silly now so this is my last post.

As I said before streets, I have never touted for business on this site - ever. And no, I don't own a website design firm, although I'm thinking of having a website done for me.

The end.

[SLF]

@ streetsloacal

I just spotted this, which might explain why you were asking if BigJ is a web designer or not.

"....Remember that most of us commenting on this tread are in the trade..." (from the other thread about £250 websites)


But in any case, why does it matter if the guy is a web design or not and as he hasnt pushed the £250 website in this thread why is that thread content relevant to this thread? He hasnt brought it into the equasion you have and even if he was or wasnt a web designer or the owner of the £250 website biz, on any count, he is entitled to give an opinion so it seems pretty pointless trying to find ways to discredit him in this thread, as that is how it is coming across, whether you see it that way or not.

[streetslocal]

This is starting to get a bit silly now so this is my last post.

The end.
He says again...



And no, I don't own a website design firm, although I'm thinking of having a website done for me.

The end.
http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=79745 ok whats this then??

Maybe you could share details of these websites so we can see your special work that is obviously so much better than the one i listed....

Look you may think im picking on you but chap listen to me please..

Lets not make it personal from here on in but all i ask you is that you be forward and open with us all...


Do you have a website design you can show us??

Simple question and im happy to leave it there....

Also where are you based out of curiousity?

[SLF]

I dont think he owes you an explanation - this is like the Ling-thing, demanding answers to questions just because he posted an opinion.

Why on earth does all those answers matter to you? There is zero requirement for members to tell you who they are, what they do and where they come form when they post and quite frankly it's harrassment. Just leave the guy alone and stick to the relevancy of the thread.

[streetslocal]

I think it is very relevant i want to know on what experience he bases his views.

Can he not share his designs?

As i think it is simply a rival giving me a thrashing for the sake of it.

[SLF]

I wouldnt mind but its not even your thread so why you think this guy should reply to you, puzzles me.

[streetslocal]

Because BIG J who is based in Somerset:cool:

Who on some threads on this forum has asked about the quality of two companies who he defends to the hilt but makes out he is not the owner.

The same guy who says he does not own a website design firm....

Well Joeseph.............

http://centralops.net/co/DomainDossier.aspx?addr=http://www.spoton.net/&traceroute=true&dom_whois=true&net_whois=true&dom_dns=true&svc_scan=true


So Joespeh or BIG J please understand i cannot see why you are hiding this?

I am open about my business practices and will share my designs openly.

The way you have done so is un ethical.

[Tin]

I think it is very relevant i want to know on what experience he bases his views.

I thought this was a forum which allowed members to voice opinions irrespective of whether they had any particular expertise in a given thread. That's why we learn from others, or am I mistaken.

Can he not share his designs?

Not if he doesn't want to.

As i think it is simply a rival giving me a thrashing for the sake of it.

I haven't seen evidence of a thrashing but maybe you could point it out?

Yet again, another thread which seems to be leaning towards a witch-hunt.

Can't we just drop the personal stuff and get on with being helpful?

Cheers

Ray

[SLF]

but he does not have to give away any details about who he is or why he asks.

Maybe he just wants opinions first and when he wants to start selling openly then he will provide all the details. This is a forum and like I said, there is simply no requirement to bow to your harrassing questions that just seem out to discredit him because you think he could be a competitor.

Perhaps to be a competitor they need to be doing what you do..................... and to me it doesnt look like he is.

[streetslocal]

I think it is highly unethical to critise somebody and hide behind a company that offers exactly the same services.

I have never seen anybody on here as a rival.

But for some reason this guy has got my back up....
Must be post xmas stress....
But really i am simply wondering why he will not reveal if he is behind the website design firm he has open threads about?

[streetslocal]

but he does not have to give away any details about who he is or why he asks.

Maybe he just wants opinions first and when he wants to start selling openly then he will provide all the details. This is a forum and like I said, there is simply no requirement to bow to your harrassing questions that just seem out to discredit him because you think he could be a competitor.

Perhaps to be a competitor they need to be doing what you do..................... and to me it doesnt look like he is.
He offers pay monthly website design....

[sirearl]

I have never seen anybody on here as a rival.



Hmm interesting comment,care to expand.?:)

Earl

[streetslocal]

Hmm interesting comment,care to expand.?:)

Earl
Sure will.

I see this place as a resource and not a bidding war.
I have gained so much from here and i give and take from the forum.

And thats the way it should be.

For example Earl you are an established member who goes back to the roots of this place and you respect that and join in and help out where possible.

[SLF]

He offers pay monthly website design....

I was actually referring to his business attitude on a public forum.

I can't imagine if I was a customer of yours and we didnt agree on something, how you would react and behave towards me if this is how you are with a complete stranger who only gave an opinion.

[sirearl]

For example Earl you are an established member who goes back to the roots of this place and you respect that and join in and help out where possible.

well I ain't been on here for that long.:|

And I certainly do have rivals on this forum who could impinge on my business ventures.:D

Earl

[streetslocal]

well I ain't been on here for that long.:|

Earl

Nearly 2 years.....:eek::)

[sirearl]

Nearly 2 years.....:eek::)

I really must get out more.:|:eek:

There must be more to life than Waffling away to a load of wannabies.:D

Earl

[matt.chatterley]

I really must get out more.:|:eek:

There must be more to life than Waffling away to a load of wannabies.:D

Earl

Hmm. Maybe find a load of wannabies who so badly desire a lecture that they will make you lots of waffles first? ;)

[Big J]

To put the record straight.

My name is not Joseph.

I do not have a website design company.

Therefore I don't have any designs to show anyone.

Streets, I want an apology for your posts 102 onwards please.

[streetslocal]

No,,,,
You have openly admited you do web design.
But for the sake of an easy life i will leave it here now

[Esk247]

i feel like i'm bashing my head against a wall sometimes you know.

someone mentioned about working 7 till 9pm when the trades people get back in from work...ARGHHHH big fat ARRGGHHHH i work at a time that suits my customer whether that be 4am or 11am and i still do websites for less than £250..infact...the maximum amount i've ever charged for a website was £500 and yes ok it didnt have a CMS or some kind of integrated shopping cart but the customer was happy with it and thats what they wanted..i always negotiate with customers..instead of saying £500 or i'm leaving I say wellll £500 is what you're aiming for really but we can do something cheaper if we don't have to include some of these other parts..but if you have the money available its best to go the whole hog as it will be worth it in the end.

howeverrrr many of my customers just want 2 pages..thats all..2 pages of html and they are happy! for £100 i can chuck in some nice istockphoto images that they can pick out themselves, they can decide on the write ups and i double check them..they just want something to stick on a business card or in to an advert so people can find them.

but my point is...why do i struggle to find work when i'm prepared to work at hours that suit the client, i'm available 24 hours a day to my paying customers if they ever have a nightmare on there hands, they can come round to the offices and pick out some changes that they want..for many of my websites i even include a maintenance and update service for just £9.99 per month and that includes ALL of the updates they need.

if they want to go up the next level and go fully in to the wonderful world of website design i'll phone one of the experts up from this website and get a quote for my client as i don't do high end websites..thats my usp..i deal with start-ups or people that have 10 minutes spare at the end of each day.

end of rant

[SLF]

im not sure if I missed what the rant was aimed at :|

you said

"but my point is...why do i struggle to find work when i'm prepared to work at hours that suit the client, i'm available 24 hours a day to my paying customers if they ever have a nightmare on there hands, they can come round to the offices and pick out some changes that they want..for many of my websites i even include a maintenance and update service for just £9.99 per month and that includes ALL of the updates they need."

so are you saying that despite offering cheaper end websites and all the extra service etc it's still difficult to get the customers? maybe the demand isnt as high, or there are more competitors offering solutions at this end of the market, or a bit of both.

Personally speaking, Id say try to be more exclusive and sell on quality than on price. I read a few posts here where people say "I might not be the cheapest but my sevrice is fantastic" or words to that effect, thus confident of their quality of service and not interested in those who buy on price alone. Value for money has nothing to do with being the cheapest.

[Esk247]

well i know that for a fact..if i charge the going rate for website design..i'd get zero work..i've tried it! then again..my location is not the best! in this area there are 5 local website designers and computer shops serving just 10,000 people and 150 businesses! so not a lot of work going around here especially during this 'credit crunch'

its just interesting to see the differences in opinion over the OP with regards to a website for £50..some are offering up their services while others are saying 'spit on you for darkening our door with this so called website design work..£50? HA thats per hour i hope' <<< thats the image i'm getting from a lot of the bigger, city based website designers perhaps.

yet us small beans are happy to have a new customer through our door..no matter how little they pay us. its just interesting.

[matt.chatterley]

yet us small beans are happy to have a new customer through our door..no matter how little they pay us. its just interesting.

It's definitely interesting - I've been following this thread somewhat avidly (barring a few sections).

We always discuss prices with the customer, and try to strike a balance - sometimes this means that we shave a bit off the price because there is plenty of work to be had - sometimes it means that they shave a bit off the functionality because they don't want to pay for it!

Flexibility is vital - but at the same time, we can't match some of the super-low prices which I see posted here from time to time!

Good luck to those that can do it, though. :D

[Matt1959]

[quote=SLF;725109]





"I might not be the cheapest but my sevrice is fantastic" or words to that effect, quote]

thats surely has to be one of most cheesy lines on the planet:rolleyes: do people still trot this out? what it really means is that they are psyching you up to pay more. If someone says that to me, I know I'm going to pay more money than I have to and I have never ever used it for my customers, as its such a cliche......

[biomed86]

Boxby - I bet you never thought this thread would be this popular! Out of interest, is the website you required being done for you? Surely if it is then that's all that matters!

[SLF]

Ive seen some respectable people on this forum use that line (or close to it) very often. Personally speaking, I prefer that they acknowledge they are not the cheapest, as oposed to someone claiming to be the cheapest.

As I said before, cheap is not value for money so in that respect, its not cheesy is it? They are just saying they dont sell the cheap stuff.

[SLF]

he eh i'd love to see the finished article. Ive not got an opinion either way. £50, £500, £5k, its the customers choice.

[matt.chatterley]

Boxby - I bet you never thought this thread would be this popular! Out of interest, is the website you required being done for you? Surely if it is then that's all that matters!

There would be a degree of irony involved if it wasn't.. :p

[biomed86]

I'd like to see the finished product now too, purely because of the raucus this thread has caused :)

[streetslocal]

As ive stated throughout cheap is not an option.
Value for money is key to any business model especially in these hard times.

Those that sit on there backside taking customers for a ride will disappear and those that give something extra will flourish.

Off the back of this thread ive had 3 enquiries:) and one fake one:rolleyes:

[biomed86]

Well done on getting more enquiries - this thread has obviously gone in your favour :)

[streetslocal]

Well done on getting more enquiries - this thread has obviously gone in your favour :)
Not in all aspects:)
Its not point scoring just something i feel quite strongly about.

I believe we offer something that helps people out and does get the customer good results and thats what it is about.

Also thanks Matt for the PM made sense.:)

[matt.chatterley]

I believe we offer something that helps people out and does get the customer good results and thats what it is about.

I may not have agreed with everything in the thread (not aiming at you streets - the thread in general!), but I definitely agree with this.

Making sure the customer goes away happy, with what they needed (this is not always what they wanted, or thought they wanted) and moreover that they will come back - is simply critical.

[Matt1959]

Ive seen some respectable people on this forum use that line (or close to it) very often. Personally speaking, I prefer that they acknowledge they are not the cheapest, as oposed to someone claiming to be the cheapest.

As I said before, cheap is not value for money so in that respect, its not cheesy is it? They are just saying they dont sell the cheap stuff.

but what they're in danger of doing before they've even started their pitch is to diss the competition - and that never comes across well. Its for the customer to decide who offers a crap service surely?

[SLF]

yes it is, and im not endorsing these members personally btw, its whats been stated on the forums by other members supporting & endorsing them that im using the term 'respected'. But yes, if they just say 'we are not the cheapest but we give a great service' and dont infer anything further then that is fine, but if they go a step too far and include a swipe at others, then I agree that's not gonna do their professional image much good.

[sirearl]

As ive stated throughout cheap is not an option.
Value for money is key to any business model

Maybe you would like to tell moi what a value for money website is.?:rolleyes::)

Or anyone like to answer that question.




Earl

[SLF]

the value can only be percieved by the buyer surely?

[biomed86]

the value can only be percieved by the buyer surely?

I would have thought so too, because what's value for money to one person may not be to another :)

[Matt1959]

Maybe you would like to tell moi what a value for money website is.?:rolleyes::)

Or anyone like to answer that question.




Earl

I'm trying to answer the question here but cant:) with web work I think theres too many variables and the value is percieved by the buyer as said. Whereas as an analogy, if I was looking to buy say a tyre for my car, then value for money would be something lower priced that does an adequate job. With cars perhaps a Skoda or a Seat:|

[matt.chatterley]

Maybe you would like to tell moi what a value for money website is.?:rolleyes::)

Or anyone like to answer that question.

Earl

Oh, can't you ask an easy question for once Earl? Actually no - that'd take the fun out of life :p

Value for money - something which does the job, to an appropriate standard, satisfying the customer's requirements (and potentially those of their customers too - depending on circumstances).

Note use of appropriate - it's pivotal :D

[sirearl]

OK so why do most people want a website in the first place.?


Earl

[streetslocal]

It does what the customer wants it too or more...:)
For example we onsite SEO ready our sites as standard

[streetslocal]

OK so why do most people want a website in the first place.?


Earl

It depends on the customer...

Some to increase sales

Some to increase brand awareness and sales

others because there younger sons and daughters said its the done thing:rolleyes:

[Esk247]

possible reasons that people/business want a website:

1) there son/daughter is online all the time and cannot believe they are not internet savvy << this is the top one from my clients
2) there competitor has one and they want one too
3) they want to expand quickly but without massive outlay
4) they want to reduce dead stock and sell nationwide
5) they are closing the shop and want to switch to a low-cost option and take the customers with them if they can
6) they are introducing there son/daughter to the world of business and will give them £1000 to spend wisely on perhaps a website and some stock or something along those lines
7) they've been made redundant and have some cash spare to start a new business

thats the main ones for me anyway!

[SLF]

some more guesses....

1. Because its essential for the business to oeprate
2. Because it's part of their marketing strategy/plans
3. Because they havent got one so think they should have one
4. Because they think they can get rich quick
5. Because they arent selling anything much and think having one will do the trick.

[sirearl]

Well 99% of the people I come into contact with want to make money.

The rest spend there time watching youtube or running around with an Ipod plugged into there brain.

Earl

[KidsBeeHappy]

some more guesses....

1. Because its essential for the business to oeprate
2. Because it's part of their marketing strategy/plans
3. Because they havent got one so think they should have one
4. Because they think they can get rich quick
5. Because they arent selling anything much and think having one will do the trick.



For the type of customer I am dealing with, the answers are;
Not essential
It's probably an "intended" part of an unwritten, unorganised strategy.
Probably, yes
No, not what they are expecting, they are serious business people and don't honestly expect a basic cheap website to make them rich.
No, again, they're realistic, just hoping that it will bring in a couple of extra jobs every month to start off with.
:redface:

And remember the fundamental, most of the customers are owner drivers, which means they operate their business on a daily basis from their van, not their office, desk or even laptop, but fundamentally from their phone.

[thedesigntailor]

I've just got back off holiday and spent a whole hour reading this thread. Brilliant discussion!

We're one of these not cheap but high quality developers that have been mentioned and I like the fact that people like streets are selling sites for bugger all. The reason being is it filters the 'crap' clients (by which I mean crap for us).

We can't do a site in 2.5hours. I probably spend that just chatting to the client about what they need. Therefore you can add a zero to the price and then double it. The clients who want to spend less on their website than a tank of fuel just wouldn't need us.

Matt use the metaphor of a car tyre which is similar to the metaphor of the car itself which I use:

You can buy a car for £50 or £5million. Infact I bought my first car, a ford escort for £50. It didn't work very well and was a death trap. But it was perfect for bombing around a field in and thats what I wanted it for.

My much more expensive car now would be sh!t for a field but it's what I need for bombing around Bristol.

Some companies need a clapped out escort website; one that gets by but doesn't leave the field. Some need a ford focus website, nothing special and looks like everything else on the information highway but reasonably reliable.

We sell the more premium sites. From a 3 series - which may not be any better than a cheaper Mondeo but a lot more stylish - to the super car websites which set up perfectly for the company and out perform the competion. This is what MY clients need, but lots wouldn't.

No one here would buy an F1 car and spend millions on their website. These are for the real big blue chips who can't use a £50 escort websites in the same way that Boxby can't use a £5mill formula one website.

Anyway, everyone dreams of owning one of our Aston Martins ;)

[sirearl]

I'll stay with your analogy and say I build F1 sites that look like Ford Escorts.;)

If you get my drift (oops no pun intended :| )

Earl

[Big J]

and one fake one:rolleyes:

Please, please leave me alone.

[thedesigntailor]

Flipping hell, Earl. I get so tyred of your puns, you are a right motor mouth. I think you have a bee in your bonnet about something, as you always put the boot in.

The bad jokes indicate I must go to bed at this juction before I brake down as I'm exhausted.

I can't think of anyway to use the words, 'big end'. :(

[thedesigntailor]

Please, please leave me alone.

I shouldn't worry - He's threatening to take someone to court for saying Creospace is a decent company on another thread ;)

[Big J]

I shouldn't worry - He's threatening to take someone to court for saying Creospace is a decent company on another thread ;)

that wasn't a dig at earl

[Esk247]

well this is what i do with my business:

1) customer comes to me and says 'give me whatever, i've got £100, don't care what it looks like just something nice and simple' so they buy one from my off the shelf templates or I can make up a photoshop based bespoke website for a little bit extra

2) customer comes to me with the above but also wants some business cards...i don't do those..but i know a few people that do and I give him the options of Goodprint, Vistaprint or the local firm that I use and he can pick from a few examples that i have for him

3) customer comes along with a bag of cash and says i want a massive website with everything, animations, 3d logo, the works...i then telephone someone like thedesigntailor because he is an expert in this field and i really don't have time to do complicated websites and i don't have the staff for it.

thats how my business works..i do the cheapy websites, the ones that non of the big guys can be bothered with. it seems to work ok actually.

[DuaneJackson]

I dont understand why the trademen woudl need to be targeted? If they want a value for money website then they can buy one teh same place as the accountant or the hairdresser. Why are their needs any different?

Their needs aren't any different, but they'd need to be marketed to differently and the "package" would have to be different for them than say, an accountant. And an accountant would have to be sold to differently to a hairdresser.

I am open about my business practices

No you're not. You're litigious - or attempt to give the impression that you are.

If anyone says something you don't like you start screaming about defamation and libel and go on about suing people and getting your "lawyers" involved - and that's based on what I've seen in the public domain, nothing to do with anything I may or may not have seen due to moderator privilidges.

To my mind, that's the opposite of being open. That reason alone would make me run a mile from even the idea of doing business with you.

Can you please stop making demands of BigJ to answer your questions, and BigJ, stop raising to the bait!

This is an interesting thread, so hopefully it wont go further down hill.

[streetslocal]

Please, please leave me alone.

Did i actually say the fake enquiry was you?
Unless....

[Big J]

To my mind, that's the opposite of being open. That reason alone would make me run a mile from even the idea of doing business with you.

Can you please stop making demands of BigJ to answer your questions, and BigJ, stop raising to the bait!

This is an interesting thread, so hopefully it wont go further down hill.

Yes, it seems as though hes got something to hide - I have a lot of work I could have put his way, as my previous attempts at web design have been unsuccesful, hence the posts, Streets.

In my trade I get a lot of enquires because some people think that because I'm in the IT trade, I can build websites. I started to believe it myself! I tried to replicate my old college days html (no xhtml or css when I was at college, that long ago!) but soon realised that it takes years to learn first how to do the code properly THEN another x amount of years of how to design properly. I simply don't have the time to learn it so I soon want to sub out this type of work to people.

I am starting to look at websites and critique them, hence my posts in this thread. Sorry if someone;) - not saying who - dosn;t like it.

[streetslocal]

Yes, it seems as though hes got something to hide - I have a lot of work I could have put his way, as my previous attempts at web design have been unsuccesful, hence the posts, Streets.

In my trade I get a lot of enquires because some people think that because I'm in the IT trade, I can build websites. I started to believe it myself! I tried to replicate my old college days html (no xhtml or css when I was at college, that long ago!) but soon realised that it takes years to learn first how to do the code properly THEN another x amount of years of how to design properly. I simply don't have the time to learn it so I soon want to sub out this type of work to people.

I am starting to look at websites and critique them, hence my posts in this thread. Sorry if someone;) - not saying who - dosn;t like it.

The thing is though web design is a very personal thing and its up to the end person what they want and what they like.

The customer for whom that site was designed loved the site and it works for them by generating extra business and more business than they possibly would have expected.

I think maybe me and BIG J should leave it here....

Peace:)

[Tin]

I think maybe me and BIG J should leave it here....

That's a really good idea so let's do it!:)

[streetslocal]

I've just got back off holiday and spent a whole hour reading this thread. Brilliant discussion!

We're one of these not cheap but high quality developers that have been mentioned and I like the fact that people like streets are selling sites for bugger all. The reason being is it filters the 'crap' clients (by which I mean crap for us).

We can't do a site in 2.5hours. I probably spend that just chatting to the client about what they need. Therefore you can add a zero to the price and then double it. The clients who want to spend less on their website than a tank of fuel just wouldn't need us.

Matt use the metaphor of a car tyre which is similar to the metaphor of the car itself which I use:

You can buy a car for £50 or £5million. Infact I bought my first car, a ford escort for £50. It didn't work very well and was a death trap. But it was perfect for bombing around a field in and thats what I wanted it for.

My much more expensive car now would be sh!t for a field but it's what I need for bombing around Bristol.

Some companies need a clapped out escort website; one that gets by but doesn't leave the field. Some need a ford focus website, nothing special and looks like everything else on the information highway but reasonably reliable.

We sell the more premium sites. From a 3 series - which may not be any better than a cheaper Mondeo but a lot more stylish - to the super car websites which set up perfectly for the company and out perform the competion. This is what MY clients need, but lots wouldn't.

No one here would buy an F1 car and spend millions on their website. These are for the real big blue chips who can't use a £50 escort websites in the same way that Boxby can't use a £5mill formula one website.

Anyway, everyone dreams of owning one of our Aston Martins ;)

For the record the majority of our websites are the FORD FOCUS and bespokes are aston martins as standard:D

[sirearl]

Flipping hell, Earl. I get so tyred of your puns, you are a right motor mouth. I think you have a bee in your bonnet about something, as you always put the boot in.

The bad jokes indicate I must go to bed at this juction before I brake down as I'm exhausted.

I can't think of anyway to use the words, 'big end'. :(

always loved Q cars.:D

Earl

[Anne Pearson]

I agree with Wez.
If their budget is that low they would be better off giving it a go themselves. If they only want a basic one or two page site it's really easy to do using frontpage.

[Anne Pearson]

I've just seen someone offering a website for £50 as a special offer on this forum.
They are called Webunit.
Could be worth a try.

[oldeagleeye]

QUOTE. For the record the majority of our websites are the FORD FOCUS and bespokes are aston martins as standard.

I always thought that AM was a Ford. Now run by a German who prefers to drive a pre 1965 model made when AM was a truly independent.:cool:

On a more sensible note. Some-one mentioned targeting tradesmen as opposed accountants etc. The solution is easy. Create an A4 poster with 2 lots of graphics. A cartoon of a dodgy plumber and the picture of a decent business card web site. Then ask the question what's your image. All that's left then is to advertise where the Dave the dodgy plumbers and his contempories do. In the local newsagents window.

Talking of images. Have you noticed that dog owners seem to look a bit like their dogs. You know slim and sleek or fat bull. I guees the same can be said of Avatars.

Make Streets just about perfect judging by his posts.:eek:

[Dawg]

Talking of images. Have you noticed that dog owners seem to look a bit like their dogs. You know slim and sleek or fat bull. I guees the same can be said of Avatars.

Easy big boy. Pot kettle being the new black, 'n' all.:)

[oldeagleeye]

Deputy Dawg.

Slightly off thread well well off. How do up upload a picture to a thread. Not talking about avatars but the way Earl uploads a bigger picture now and then. Rob

[Dawg]

One way to post pics:
Get image to right size if poss. (Irfan view does this). Go to Image Shack, browse for image, arrow one, untick resize box, arrow 2, click 'host it'

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3606/imageshack1bzh5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Next window, scroll down a bit, uncheck details box, copy code in 'hotlink for forums (1)' box

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7387/imageshack2bsq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Paste code into UKBF post. It will only show as code until you preview

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5382/ukbfpastebuy4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

tada

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/1599/previewbss9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Annoy Earl with composite photos of old Gerry Hat Tricks in Pink Ferraris with slogan 'beware: low flying schlong'

[sirearl]

Slightly off thread well well off. How do up upload a picture to a thread. Not talking about avatars but the way Earl uploads a bigger picture now and then. Rob

Just paste the URL of the picture in the little envelope.

find this by right clicking image and properties.

as in: http://atvquadshop.co.uk/spyder/yellowlarge.jpg

Now wouldn't that make you 20 years younger.:D

http://atvquadshop.co.uk/spyder/yellowlarge.jpg

[oldeagleeye]

http://imageshack.us%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9223/page5rgx7.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5Dhttp://%5BURL=http://imageshack.us%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9223/page5rgx7.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D

[oldeagleeye]

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9223/page5rgx7.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5Dhttp://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7387/imageshack2bsq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us (http://imageshack.us/))
http://imageshack.us%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9223/page5rgx7.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5Dhttp://%5BURL=http://imageshack.us%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9223/page5rgx7.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D

[oldeagleeye]

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7387/imageshack2bsq3.jpg%20%20%28http://imageshack.us%29

[matt.chatterley]

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9223/page5rgx7.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5Dhttp://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7387/imageshack2bsq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us (http://imageshack.us/))
http://imageshack.us%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9223/page5rgx7.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5Dhttp://%5BURL=http://imageshack.us%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9223/page5rgx7.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D

Close, but no cigar.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4434/closezs2.jpg

[sirearl]

Annoy Earl with composite photos of old Gerry Hat Tricks in Pink Ferraris with slogan 'beware: low flying schlong'

Annoy.:|

Nope never come across the word.?

Gerry hat tricks,must have something to do with the war.:|

No idea why the darling buds of may matriarch would be concerned about cans of larger.?:rolleyes:

Me mother was right when she said "I should not hop the wag so much"

Earl

[thedesigntailor]

For the record the majority of our websites are the FORD FOCUS and bespokes are aston martins as standard:D

There is no way you can get a focus for £50 as it can't be made in 2.5 hours*. In this analogy, a focus site would be in the region of £1000 and a whole different type of product than yours.

Maybe more moped? I'm certainly not saying that your service is bad or poor value. So I hope I don't offend; as anyone who watched Top Gear on Sunday can tell you there is nothing wrong with a moped if that's what you need.

If you are selling focus websites for £50 then I think you'd have to be super quick to get it all done in an hour and crazy! :D

* Ps - I'm still not sure how the pricing works as that is £20ph before tax and overheads. How can you live on that? Is there lots of added value extras that people buy?

[Esk247]

Ford Fiesta Website - £50 - £250
Ford Focus Website - £500 - £1000
Jaguar Website - £1500 - £2000
Maybach Website - £2500 +

thats how i see it...and i only do the ford fiesta websites and occasional focus websites but i'm not a cms god or html coding wizard so i leave the jags and the maybachs to those on £50 an hour.

[Esk247]

and i work for £10 per hour on a lot of these websites....how do i live on it??? i don't have a jaguar..i don't go on holiday to las palmas ... i don't fritter it away on unncessary items! :)

could i charge £50 an hour??? yep..but i won't have any customers in Whitby...they can barely afford to pay me £10 per hour.

[streetslocal]

and i work for £10 per hour on a lot of these websites....how do i live on it??? i don't have a jaguar..i don't go on holiday to las palmas ... i don't fritter it away on unncessary items! :)

could i charge £50 an hour??? yep..but i won't have any customers in Whitby...they can barely afford to pay me £10 per hour.

The one thing i would say is dont be afraid to up your prices sometimes its easy to get into the method of underselling your service.
Although it can be tough if you sell your service well you can make up the extra sales.
Although if your happy with what your getting and it pays the bills then thats ok and keep doing what your doing.
:)

[Esk247]

i would like more money for the services i offer...i mean i'm available to my paying customers 24 hours a day 7 days a week..i even work christmas day if there website goes down..at the moment i do that all for free while i build up a nice portfolio of clients!

i think its my location though..whitby is notoriously difficult for getting paid on time and for the full amount...i'll see what 2009 brings though as i'm doing fine as it is.

[streetslocal]

* Ps - I'm still not sure how the pricing works as that is £20ph before tax and overheads. How can you live on that? Is there lots of added value extras that people buy?

As a company we make money from various methods.
1)The business directory
2)Hosting fees
3)The tradesmen sides are subject to a 12 month contract so this ups the profit margin.
4)Pay monthly SEO packages
5)People buy blocks of hours to do additional work.
6)Website reviews.

Im happy with what i get and it works well for me on many aspects.

For example my hosting packages give me a set income each month which is very handy for planning for my family needs as my son has a rare genetic disorder and if he ends up in hospital then my money still comes in which is important.

Before my son was diagnossed i was simply make money money money with higher prices but since that happened i has to re assess my working life and do things in a new manor and it works for me and the customer.

[streetslocal]

i would like more money for the services i offer...i mean i'm available to my paying customers 24 hours a day 7 days a week..i even work christmas day if there website goes down..at the moment i do that all for free while i build up a nice portfolio of clients!

i think its my location though..whitby is notoriously difficult for getting paid on time and for the full amount...i'll see what 2009 brings though as i'm doing fine as it is.
Do you limit yourself to whitby for a reason?

[thedesigntailor]

Ford Fiesta Website - £50 - £250
Ford Focus Website - £500 - £1000
Jaguar Website - £1500 - £2000
Maybach Website - £2500 +

thats how i see it...and i only do the ford fiesta websites and occasional focus websites but i'm not a cms god or html coding wizard so i leave the jags and the maybachs to those on £50 an hour.

I see...

But then what about the £10,000; 50,000; 100,000 upwards sites? You are only thinking about the budget end of the webscale.

£50 moped/push bike

£250 One of those electric doodars / a 2nd hand metro

£500 Kia Picanto

£1500 Focus

£2000 BMW 3 series

£5000 BMW 5 series

£20,000 Porsche Boxter

£50,000 Maybach / rolls

£100,000 + Ferrari Enzo

£1million + Formula one

[sirearl]

* Ps - I'm still not sure how the pricing works as that is £20ph before tax and overheads. How can you live on that?

Don't worry you will have plenty of company.

http://www.oxfam.org.uk/applications/blogs/pressoffice/?p=1765

Earl

[Esk247]

I see...
But then what about the £10,000; 50,000; 100,000 upwards sites? You are only thinking about the budget end of the webscale.
£50 moped/push bike
£250 One of those electric doodars / a 2nd hand metro
£500 Kia Picanto
£1500 Focus
£2000 BMW 3 series
£5000 BMW 5 series
£20,000 Porsche Boxter
£50,000 Maybach / rolls
£100,000 + Ferrari Enzo
£1million + Formula one

Crikey! well ok then..break it down as you have put it..i'm operating in the bottom quarter of that chart of yours..the lowly £50 ers but thats fine at this stage..i have too much competition! i'm happy with the people paying £9.99 or £29.99 and i'm building a nice big cake..adding £29.99 here and there .. 1 new customer a week...the cake builds and builds but i have a solid base then of loyal customers and its a regular monthly direct debit style payment! much easier to work out the accounts too

[streetslocal]

but i have a solid base then of loyal customers and its a regular monthly direct debit style payment! much easier to work out the accounts too
And this is the way i see this...

Design tailor out of curioustiy what is a million quid website??:eek::|

[sirearl]

well for me its one that can earn £300,000 a year.:rolleyes:

Earl

[thedesigntailor]

I see...
But then what about the £10,000; 50,000; 100,000 upwards sites? You are only thinking about the budget end of the webscale.
£50 moped/push bike
£250 One of those electric doodars / a 2nd hand metro
£500 Kia Picanto
£1500 Focus
£2000 BMW 3 series
£5000 BMW 5 series
£20,000 Porsche Boxter
£50,000 Maybach / rolls
£100,000 + Ferrari Enzo
£1million + Formula one

Crikey! well ok then..break it down as you have put it..i'm operating in the bottom quarter of that chart of yours..the lowly £50 ers but thats fine at this stage..i have too much competition! i'm happy with the people paying £9.99 or £29.99 and i'm building a nice big cake..adding £29.99 here and there .. 1 new customer a week...the cake builds and builds but i have a solid base then of loyal customers and its a regular monthly direct debit style payment! much easier to work out the accounts too

Lol - I'm not putting the lower end of the scale down. I'm saying exactly that the industry needs you.

But when you say you charge £29.99 for a website do you mean a month? Because that is a different thing entirely.

[Martin P]

Can anyone show me what a £1,000,000+ website would look like?!:eek: If there is one?!

[matt.chatterley]

Can anyone show me what a £1,000,000+ website would look like?!:eek: If there is one?!

Can't think of one which cost >1m off the top of my head, but this one was in the realms of £200k+:

http://www.jersey.com/

Though to be honest, it didn't even work properly when they first got it up and running. Please note this is NOT something I worked on - I don't want any more association with it than necessary. :D

I suspect there are more "upper quartile" websites out there than people think..

[streetslocal]

Can't think of one which cost >1m off the top of my head, but this one was in the realms of £200k+:

http://www.jersey.com/

Though to be honest, it didn't even work properly when they first got it up and running. Please note this is NOT something I worked on - I don't want any more association with it than necessary. :D

I suspect there are more "upper quartile" websites out there than people think..
Im in the wrong trade:eek:

I would have done that for less than 30k:redface:

[matt.chatterley]

Im in the wrong trade:eek:

I would have done that for less than 30k:redface:

Ah. I didn't say it was _worth_ 200k+, nor did I say that we would charge that much, either. :D

I'm sure there are lots of other examples out there, though this one does prove a number of points, including:

Value is relative.

Goverments will pay over the odds for things.

:p

[streetslocal]

Ah. I didn't say it was _worth_ 200k+, nor did I say that we would charge that much, either. :D

I'm sure there are lots of other examples out there, though this one does prove a number of points, including:

Value is relative.

Goverments will pay over the odds for things.

:p
Think of those higher taxes:eek::(:D

[DotNetWebs]

...
Goverments will pay over the odds for things...
:p

If you think that is expensive....

£153,000,000 for a website:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/may/29/bbc.digitalmedia

Regards

Dottty

[KidsBeeHappy]

How can you spend that much on a website? Even the BBC? it's not a new start from scratch build the biggest website you can, it's ongoing annual maintenance, development and improvements.

[streetslocal]

Thats the thing people say its all about pricing and the cheap designers dont come up to scratch etc.

I could build that site without any issues...

And one hell of alot cheaper and support it and maintain it.

[sirearl]

If you think that is expensive....

£153,000,000 for a website:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/may/29/bbc.digitalmedia

Regards

Dottty

I thought they were saying it spent 110 million in 1 year,so total cost for the site may approach 1 billion.:eek:

Earl

[computaguy]

I think people look at the price and decide what the quality will be like based on the cost. I once quoted £5000 for a routing/scheduling package for a leading online tyre sales organisation.

I was told in no uncertain terms that if I thought the owner was going to buy a system for a few paltry thousand I was seriously mistaken, and then shown the door. Had I trebbled the price I would have got the work. (Mind you he was an absolutely intolerable ass throughout the meeting and I would have hated working with him!)


This doesn't mean that doing a job cheaply is necessarily the wrong option in my opinion. Sometimes doing a job cheaply will lead to a great and long term working relationship. I guess the skill is in recognising where the best opportunity lies.

[Esk247]

some of those examples above are shocking arent they...i remember someone paying £1000 just for a 1 page, business card style website and they thought that was the going price..it didn't even appear in many search results!

for charity based website i only charge for the hosting..design is free..for business websites i can charge £69 a year for basic website or £29.99 per month if its more complicated and they need me to carry on updating it at the end of every week.

i admit my costs are low and i dont really make much profit but at a time of recession i'm glad to have a steady enough flow and a solid platform...hopefully i can start building on this in 2009 so i'm comfortably off and can even start employing people part-time.

i would gladly take on work for £150,000 though..just dont expect me to do it all on my own..i'll be bringing in a few other people to help me.

[zoezoe]

well that kind of illustrates my point if you have to ask the question really. Tradesmen by definition usually are away from the PC all day - maybe a designer could offer an evening service between 7 and 9 or something.

Tradesmen are uaually pretty PC illiterate and are almost always cynical of paying for this sort of thing and should be approached accordingly - perhaps some dumb arse explanation of the basics of email and basic website workings would be useful to have, expecting them to deal with you and react to you in the same way as an office based business would be a mistake I think.

:rolleyes:

to be honest that sounds like most of our customers and i see no difference in the tradesmen or the hairdresser, the needs of most small business owners are the same.

[zoezoe]

but my point is...why do i struggle to find work when i'm prepared to work at hours that suit the client...

if they want to go up the next level and go fully in to the wonderful world of website design i'll phone one of the experts up from this website and get a quote for my client as i don't do high end websites..thats my usp..i deal with start-ups or people that have 10 minutes spare at the end of each day.

end of rant

thats your problem, people want a company thatthey can grown with, a website that will grow. what marketing do you do? competing on price is never a good idea you will actually put people off. and once you have 200 customers you will change you wont be able to support them all in the same way, there simple will not be enough time.

[sirearl]

competing on price is never a good idea you will actually put people off. .

I keep telling Tesco's that.

but they won't listen.:eek:

Earl

[Esk247]

i don't do any marketing...i go by word of mouth...i did advertising before in local papers and ended up doing 2 websites where the customer didn't pay and ran off..they wanted a cheapie website up and were hoping i'd just let them have it!

word of mouth works best for me, its free and i end up getting customers that i know better and its a more casual way of working.

[zoezoe]

i don't do any marketing...i go by word of mouth...i did advertising before in local papers and ended up doing 2 websites where the customer didn't pay and ran off..they wanted a cheapie website up and were hoping i'd just let them have it!

word of mouth works best for me, its free and i end up getting customers that i know better and its a more casual way of working.

you just said that you were struggling for customers-so perhaps it does not work best for you??

[Esk247]

well i think i'm struggling for customers because of location...when i say struggling for customers i mean my business is not growing at the rate i'd expect it to grow..we aren't having the amount of enquiries that would be normal for a business of my type in comparison to those in other areas..we're practically rural to be honest and so 2009 is when marketing may become an option.

word of mouth has worked so far in that its brought in 90% of all of my work..marketing would not achieve anything locally...i've spent over £1000 in marketing in the past (3 years ago) we had zero enquiries even though it included advertising in the paper, flyer distribution, having an article put up and advertising on posters in several locations...no interest was shown...i think 2009 is when i'll get back to looking at marketing though.

[Marzipan]

..my location is not the best! in this area there are 5 local website designers and computer shops serving just 10,000 people and 150 businesses! so not a lot of work going around here especially during this 'credit crunch'

could i charge £50 an hour??? yep..but i won't have any customers in Whitby...they can barely afford to pay me £10 per hour.

Do you limit yourself to whitby for a reason?

well i think i'm struggling for customers because of location...

Esk - the recurring thought going through my mind is like Streets says - why do you limit yourself to your local area? I always thought the first w in www. stood for "worldwide" not "Whitby" :D Even word of mouth must surely bring in enquiries from further away?

Lovely place, Whitby, have got many good childhood memories of the place (and still got my lucky duck!) but it seems incredible that there are only 150 businesses there - even our little village here has more businesses than that albeit most are agriculture related. I would have thought there were literally hundreds of guest houses & b&b's in and around Whitby - the North York Moors are chock full of such places - and they could all do with a website even if they don't realise it yet!

[grangejoinery]

I would love to have a better website then ours www.grangejoinery.co.uk (http://www.grangejoinery.co.uk) as I built it myself as can't afford to pay someone to do it for us at present, but would be more than willing to have someone build a new one for us and advertise their site on ours rather then charging us for their time. I would also be willing to pay 10% of any profit from work generated by the new website if anyone is interested in such an arrangement?

Trouble is people in this market want all the money upfront and they are talking of prices like £250.00 for a basic site and £1000.00 for an ecommerce site which is well over my budget at present. There is a recession on in the UK at present and we are struggling for work at present and it's only a matter of time before this hits web designers etc!

[JADEMEDIA]

ESK. You keep knocing Whitby. Am I not right in thinking famous for fresh fish. Now theres an idea.

[creospace]

There is a recession on in the UK at present and we are struggling for work at present and it's only a matter of time before this hits web designers etc!

Building trade and web design are very different.

There are many ways it could go but I think it will cut the wheat from the chaff. 2 bob 'web designers' who have just got by will fall by the wayside I think as companies look really carefully at their internet based marketing.

Firms can no longer afford to buy cheap and if it fails go get someone proper to do it - they need to get it right first time to stand a chance of winning every deal from every visitor who is only a click away from their competitors.

£250 wouldn't probably cover our graphic design charge let alone building the site and e-commerce well 1000 wont get you much. If you think we're expensive then read this thread (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=91400) where the OP's investment is still paying off over 2 years later.

[Esk247]

yes i should get out a bit more shouldnt i :)

Just seen in the local paper another website designer setting up across the river...that makes it 10 web design companies in 4 square miles.

With Whitby the problem is thus:

People want websites but they don't go on quality they go on price (in general), they want cheap cheap cheap and they really don't mind if it looks cheap, its a website, thats the bit they cling on to! Some of my customers go for quality above price but 9 out of 10 want something for around £5.99 per month and it only needs to be 2 pages with contact details..a little picture..some writing..all html no flash or animations or logo's. thats what they want...when i started i charged per hour, £25! i've had to slash that because i had no interest what so ever and with the competition in the area being so high i've really dropped prices ready for 2009.

I have no intention of making Esk247 my be all and end all business..i want it to tick over and give me monthly payments and thats all..i have other business ideas that are in the pipe line which will generate bigger revenue for me.

Whitby is the oddest place you'll ever work in...even my Prince's Trust mentor and the marketing students from Middlesbrough can't crack it...it works purely on price! not quality...a website is a website end of...if you came here and charged £1000 up front for a website..you're stuffed!

I don't charge up front..I ask for £45 once the initial design is drawn up to pay for a hosting space and then the customer can decide to move things around or send me some photo's etc and then they set up direct debit payments of say £9.99 or whatever depending on the size and quality of the website.


bit long that but i feel i need to explain my position a bit! i've been here 3 years and i'm not the only one that struggles here believe me. and yes there are 150 commercial businesses and around 100 additional hotels and bnb's but 90% already have a website.

[Marzipan]

But why limit yourself only to Whitby, Esk? Not having a pop at you or anything, just genuinely taken aback that someone working in a field that isn't geography-specific seems to limit themselves in much the same way as the local hairdresser would (for instance)?

You run your business how it best suits you, naturally, but you've made several references in not just this thread to the fact that your location is so limiting in terms of how little business there is to be had there and how little you can charge for it - and I just don't understand why you don't go further afield, it's not like you have to physically go there. :)

[zoezoe]

I would love to have a better website then ours www.grangejoinery.co.uk (http://www.grangejoinery.co.uk) as I built it myself as can't afford to pay someone to do it for us at present, but would be more than willing to have someone build a new one for us and advertise their site on ours rather then charging us for their time. I would also be willing to pay 10% of any profit from work generated by the new website if anyone is interested in such an arrangement?

Trouble is people in this market want all the money upfront and they are talking of prices like £250.00 for a basic site and £1000.00 for an ecommerce site which is well over my budget at present. There is a recession on in the UK at present and we are struggling for work at present and it's only a matter of time before this hits web designers etc!

I dont get this. having a good website will earn you more money, if you spent a grand on a decent website (we did this one a few months back in simular industry to yours http://www.twfg.co.uk/) then you would more than make the money back.

its just good business sence, cutting back on promotion and advertising at a time like this is a really bad idea.

[Esk247]

yes don't cut back on advertising...its a bad idea...perhaps alter your advertising to yield better results and more conversions (e.g. enquiry to paying customer)

cutting back on advertising is what you shouldn't do because you need more customers not less

[Esk247]

But why limit yourself only to Whitby, Esk? Not having a pop at you or anything, just genuinely taken aback that someone working in a field that isn't geography-specific seems to limit themselves in much the same way as the local hairdresser would (for instance)?

You run your business how it best suits you, naturally, but you've made several references in not just this thread to the fact that your location is so limiting in terms of how little business there is to be had there and how little you can charge for it - and I just don't understand why you don't go further afield, it's not like you have to physically go there. :)

i understand what you're saying...but looking at this in the way i've experienced..heading north we have Middlesbrough, good for a big customer base, its virtually a city, however it has more web designers and student businesses than you can shake a stick at..i've already been eaten alive in that area. Hartlepool i have a few customers there now but thats from word of mouth and through friends rather than advertising that i've done that way over...scarborough to the south..25 web designers and freelancers offering a wide range of hosting and domain packages. They compete on price too.

York - too far to be considered viable..takes 1 hour minimum to reach the outskirts and that would eat in to my petrol allowance, takes a whole afternoon to complete just one meeting, 2 hours travel.

The rail link in Whitby only goes to middlesbrough and there are just 3 trains a day. The bus service is now once every 2 hours if that and is usually over crowded so the car is the only way to travel and unless i charge 50p per mile before the customer has even ordered anything then i'm out of pocket and may still not make a close on a sale.

There is simply too much competition for web design services in this area...one guy is doing free websites now with free hosting off his own server..he's retired so doesn't need to make any money! :mad:

[Matt1959]

Esk, who's fault do you think it is that things have turned out this way for your web design biz? sounds like your explanation is that people in Whitby are skinflints:|

[Marzipan]

Dear Esk, I must be being overly simplistic because it wouldn't occur to me that a face to face meeting with a web designer would be necessary - nice yes but essential no. But if this is what you do then it makes your low pricing all the more incredible.

However, I admit defeat and will slink quietly away.... :D

[Esk247]

Esk, who's fault do you think it is that things have turned out this way for your web design biz? sounds like your explanation is that people in Whitby are skinflints:|

well you can't walk in to a business in whitby offering website design and then say oh but its going to cost you £750...they'll just tell you to get out.

like when we did a bit of telesales locally a year or so ago...2 put the phone down straight away and the rest said they dont need a website or unless it was free they werent interested because they're doing fine without one.

it was the same with the online directory that i used to have..whitby247...it was only £6 for the year and that included a full page with opening times, contact details, promotional banners..restaurants could display their full menu and update it as often as they wanted...they could include as much information on the single page as they wanted...only 3 businesses paid..the rest wanted it free as a service for them.

I'm not the only one struggling though..thats my point...we are all battling and doing work at rock bottom prices! many of the web designers now offer home tuition and software packages to make up the money. the other thing is..once a website has been designed..very few want it updated..so 3 years ago there was a lot of work..i had a website every week...now...everyone has a website pretty much! even if it isn't very good.

[Esk247]

Dear Esk, I must be being overly simplistic because it wouldn't occur to me that a face to face meeting with a web designer would be necessary - nice yes but essential no. But if this is what you do then it makes your low pricing all the more incredible.

However, I admit defeat and will slink quietly away.... :D

i knew people would say that :) i always meet with the client if possible...i want to have a chat with them, show them some designs in person, introduce myself..i'm not just going to build a website and then bugger off...i want to be a part of there marketing in the future..it does work..3 clients i consider permanent clients..they would choose my business over others even if i increase the price and they've said thats fine because i always meet them, i'm available 24 hours day.

and most of my other customers are not exactly net savvy..they've only just got to grips with email..so deciding on colour schemes, imaging, banners, flash pages etc is a no go..its easier just to turn up with the laptop and show them what they can have.

[streetslocal]

i knew people would say that :) i always meet with the client if possible...i want to have a chat with them, show them some designs in person, introduce myself..i'm not just going to build a website and then bugger off...i want to be a part of there marketing in the future..it does work..3 clients i consider permanent clients..they would choose my business over others even if i increase the price and they've said thats fine because i always meet them, i'm available 24 hours day.

and most of my other customers are not exactly net savvy..they've only just got to grips with email..so deciding on colour schemes, imaging, banners, flash pages etc is a no go..its easier just to turn up with the laptop and show them what they can have.
Thing is as a client i may not want a meeting and i may see it as a sales pitch and not want to use you...:rolleyes:
I suggest maybe offering a national design service and then offer personal visits on bespoke work over a set budget,it may be a way of pushing prices up.

[Esk247]

Thing is as a client i may not want a meeting and i may see it as a sales pitch and not want to use you...:rolleyes:
I suggest maybe offering a national design service and then offer personal visits on bespoke work over a set budget,it may be a way of pushing prices up.

i'm thinking of giving this a go for 2009 actually..change of direction from local (which is now exhausted) to more national advertising... I'll still compete on price as i'm not a full website designer and if i ever receive an order for a big, complicated, database driven website i pass it on to the professionals and charge a small fee for doing so.

havent worked out how i'm going to target nationally..my budget for Esk247 is rather skinny to say the least...i shouldn't of over spent on the local advertising but hey ho learn from my mistakes.

[KidsBeeHappy]

Dear Esk, I must be being overly simplistic because it wouldn't occur to me that a face to face meeting with a web designer would be necessary - nice yes but essential no. But if this is what you do then it makes your low pricing all the more incredible.

However, I admit defeat and will slink quietly away.... :D

Hi Esk

I have worked with quite a lot of developers and designers over the past year. I've done quite a lot of work with Kay (Calibre Designs) and never met him, I've done some work with Fiscix and never met him, i've done work with a company in Nairn, and never met them. I've done lots of work 10months worth, with Julian Ross, and only met him once.

I did have a local developer who we met regularly with, and to be honest, it was the least productive relationship of the lot.

The crux to it is having a clear focus of what it is exactly that you want/need and lots of short quick emails, rather than the long ones that cover lots of issues, quick fire bullet points that address any concerns/issues then and there straight away.

I like working with local companies, but because of our geography and my family circumstances - it doesn't suit me to loose a whole day for a meeting - then i tend to work by email and phone.

[Esk247]

interesting info Boxby.

i've got too honed in on Whitby and meeting customers here because that is what they do here..its the whitby way..you don't deal by telephone or email crikey no..you meet in a pub and debate over a price!

i must remember that people outside Whitby don't do that...i'll have a little look in to how i'm going to plan 2009 and see where there may be gaps in the market outside of my current location.

its just a case of finding potential leads..i'm sure with my very laid back approach and experience of dealing with different age groups of people, that any lead would turn in to a sale.

food for thought.

[creospace]

well you can't walk in to a business in whitby offering website design and then say oh but its going to cost you £750...they'll just tell you to get out.

Your problem is your outlook at people in Whitby. There are skinflints everywhere and those who don't have a vision for good quality or value for money.

If you keep leaving peanuts out for bait you're only going to attract monkeys. (hope that analogy makes sense)

Change your outlook. There are plenty of businesses everywhere who wont choose you simply because you're too cheap and cheapness is associated with bad quality in some circles. These businesses do exist in Whitby believe it or not.

If I were from Whitby and reading this I'd be offended I think :)

[Matt1959]

following all these comments about Whitby, I thought the place was in dire poverty. Checking Rightmove, the price of 3 bed houses start at £135K which is dearer than where we are (and thats considered pretty affluent) so as house prices seem to be an indicator of what wealth the area has, I'm puzzled about the poor Whitby comments (if its Whitby Yorkshire that is)

[maria102]

So, just out of interest, did Boxby get a Cheap & Cheerful webdesigner?!

[creospace]

So, just out of interest, did Boxby get a Cheap & Cheerful webdesigner?!

Come on Maria, keep the thread on topic please ;)

[SLF]

Yes, it should be done by now, in fact it should have risen with the speed of the tide at whitby for £50!

[Simon-M]

If I were from Whitby and reading this I'd be offended I think :)

You should get out more :) I am going to put my reputation as a good judge of character on the line here and say that "Most people from Whitby would not give a damn one way or the other" after reading this :rolleyes:.

In the grand scheme of thisngs I am sure this one will not be a big Whitby talking point. Not even a small one.

[streetslocal]

Come on Maria, keep the thread on topic please ;)

Oh dear lol:D

[Esk247]

the house prices are high but the average wage in whitby is low...i don't mean the people are skinflints actually..what i mean is that the only jobs in whitby are small shop jobs and summer jobs, its a tourist town, a small fishing fleet, hundreds of years of history but very few new businesses in the area.

like i say..i'm not the only one struggling, with rents of £20k per year in town i think many shops are balanced on a knife edge..if we have a poor summer then i think lots of stores could go up for sale here.

there is also a high student population here so that means lots of cheap labour for the biggest stores in town, there are currently something like 6 jobs available in the whole area..3 are part time. with 26 being made unemployed by woolworths this week it shows how bad things are right now.

but back on topic..we all want to see the boxby website and compare it against a more expensive variety.:)

[streetslocal]

the house prices are high but the average wage in whitby is low...i don't mean the people are skinflints actually..what i mean is that the only jobs in whitby are small shop jobs and summer jobs, its a tourist town, a small fishing fleet, hundreds of years of history but very few new businesses in the area.

like i say..i'm not the only one struggling, with rents of £20k per year in town i think many shops are balanced on a knife edge..if we have a poor summer then i think lots of stores could go up for sale here.

there is also a high student population here so that means lots of cheap labour for the biggest stores in town, there are currently something like 6 jobs available in the whole area..3 are part time. with 26 being made unemployed by woolworths this week it shows how bad things are right now.

but back on topic..we all want to see the boxby website and compare it against a more expensive variety.:)
You should work for whitby tourist board:)

[sirearl]

I can see where your coming from as I live in a small seaside town close to London.

Very high house prices as most are bought by Londoners and very low wages for the locals.

A melancholic paradise in winter and a carnival town in the summer.#

Not your average business environment.

Earl

[KidsBeeHappy]

I've a few PMs which I am going to follow up on Monday.
It's been interesting :)

[Esk247]

I can see where your coming from as I live in a small seaside town close to London.

Very high house prices as most are bought by Londoners and very low wages for the locals.

A melancholic paradise in winter and a carnival town in the summer.#

Not your average business environment.

Earl

thats exactly what i mean...its totally sparse at the moment...there are the people coming in from middlesbrough for a day out in quaint little whitby..but as for website design...several shops don't even have a telephone or credit card machine. oh well..i must stop complaining and actually get out and do something about it. better late than never.

[sirearl]

thats exactly what i mean...its totally sparse at the moment...there are the people coming in from middlesbrough for a day out in quaint little whitby..but as for website design...several shops don't even have a telephone or credit card machine. oh well..i must stop complaining and actually get out and do something about it. better late than never.

But remember you live in a very nice environment ,unlike those unlucky sods that earn 1 million a year but have to live in that tip they call London.:eek::)

Earl

[Esk247]

But remember you live in a very nice environment ,unlike those unlucky sods that earn 1 million a year but have to live in that tip they call London.:eek::)

Earl

to true! i remember in the summer...not being able to sleep for some reason..going for a drive at 4am and then sitting by the sea front! like something from a movie..no cars, no people, just the sea and the sunrise :) nothing better to beat stress.

way off topic though.

[Nick63]

Sometimes cheap means low quality. ;)