Quoting

[morticetennon]

This is my first ever forum message and I meen first. As a joiner with a small unit all of my work is bespoke one way or another, so quoting come s with some degree of experiance and unless I right things down I'm liable to forget if the last nearest job was a long time ago, and I have also learnt not to spend to much time on quotes, there has to be a cut off point some where, and decernment of people helps as well.

[estwig]

Hello morticetennon, welcome to ukbf.

:)

[maxine]

Hi Morticetennon and welcome :)

Agree we have to find a cut off point :)

[Matt1959]

Hi M&T - quoting is so important as not only does it get you the chance to quote for a job, it also is an oppourtunity to make a good impression. If the potential client has 3 quotes from 3 different firms in front of them including yours, your quote will look good or not depending on many things like textual content, layout, spelling, quality/ design of letterhead etc etc. As paperwork is not many tradesmens strongest point, its not difficult to produce a great looking quote and therefore have a better chance of getting the order. So, I would say, spend whatever time it takes to get the quote looking good.

Do you keep timesheets for your jobs? If so, you can refer back to previous work and get a much better idea of how long something takes. In any case, after a few years, you know instinctively what sort of price to charge.

[lockie]

Hi M&T - quoting is so important as not only does it get you the chance to quote for a job, it also is an oppourtunity to make a good impression. If the potential client has 3 quotes from 3 different firms in front of them including yours, your quote will look good or not depending on many things like textual content, layout, spelling, quality/ design of letterhead etc etc. As paperwork is not many tradesmens strongest point, its not difficult to produce a great looking quote and therefore have a better chance of getting the order. So, I would say, spend whatever time it takes to get the quote looking good.

Do you keep timesheets for your jobs? If so, you can refer back to previous work and get a much better idea of how long something takes. In any case, after a few years, you know instinctively what sort of price to charge.

Im finding this more and more.
In the current climate you need to use every little edge you can to get the work.
Ive even been playing with types of copy and use of certain words to see if it has an impact or effect and so far ive found it does.
Look into copy writing and apply the techniques to your quotes, what do you have to lose ?

Loads of stuff on youtube about covert messages in ads etc.
A bit deep for many but that means i keep the edge if others cant be bothered learn about it.

Alternatively employ a marketing expert to set you up a template etc.

[chartergas]

morticetennon, get hold of a copy of a book called the E myth and e myth mastery!!!

ww.emyth.com

this will help you no end!!!

[roythehandyman]

This is my first ever forum message and I meen first. As a joiner with a small unit all of my work is bespoke one way or another, so quoting come s with some degree of experiance and unless I right things down I'm liable to forget if the last nearest job was a long time ago, and I have also learnt not to spend to much time on quotes, there has to be a cut off point some where, and decernment of people helps as well.
Well all I can say is heaven help you. Lets face it making a garden gate will cost more this year than last year, so it doesn’t matter what you charged before, its now that counts. The quote is the most important part of the job. What’s the point of producing the best gate in the world, if you make a loss on it? Experience will teach you how much time it will take to produce, but it is the market price of the materials that will dictate the final quote. I have a database (used excel for that) containing all the buy in prices per unit of materials that I most commonly use. I update that every chance I get (within reason) I enter all the required materials and the man hours needed. Hit calculate and hey presto I have a quote. I then place the results in a template (made with ms publisher) I can then post or Email (best) it to the customer. I don’t think a quote written on finest Chinese silk will secure the work any more than a hand written quote on a piece of toilet paper. It’s the bottom line that most people are interested in the most. “Quote in haste repent at your leisure” I prepare part of my quotes in my head whilst plastering a wall or painting a fence. It helps relieve the boredom:)

[Matt1959]

I don’t think a quote written on finest Chinese silk will secure the work any more than a hand written quote on a piece of toilet paper. It’s the bottom line that most people are interested in the most. “ :)

you get your work based on price then? people that get unknown trades in to work in their homes are not interested in price alone......in fact I'd say price was some way down the list......

btw you ain't related to Oldeagleeye are you;):)

[lockie]

Price is not the main factor people go for. I charge more than some of my competitors and still get the work.As i mentioned above HOW you write your quote is just as important.They also buy into the person they are dealing with just as much.

Add in the value you are offering as well and price isnt the real issue.

No point being a busy fool earning less when you can do less work for more profit.

Putting my prices up actually increased the amount of work i get.

[estwig]

I have in the past paid over £1,000.00 a time for quotes to be produced for me, cost of a QS and then a VA to make it pretty. It is worth the money, cause I add the cost into the quote and still win the work.

Don't go quite that far anymore, but my quotes still cost upwards of £300.00 each to produce, we are usually the dearest, or very close to the top prices the client gets and we still win the work. Our quote is detailed, looks very impressive, I spend time with the client before submitting the quote and we have a first class online portfolio to back it up.

[roythehandyman]

Well mat1959 believe it or not price is very important to most customers. If I were to give a quote for £4,000 for hanging a door I can assure you that even if I were directly related to prince Charles and have won daddy of the year six years on the trot, head of Securicor and fully paid up member of the F.M.B I would not get the job. Unless lockie is correct. Maybe if I charged £4000 for the door I would be overwhelmed with offers of work!! I think not:rolleyes:. The same goes if I were to quote £2.50p for installing a bathroom suite I would not get that job either. What I do know is I have been preparing quotes and getting 75% acceptance for over thirty years to date, so I must be doing something right. I get my work by tendering a fair quote, and being able to supply recommendations and references from past customers. Oh and I don’t use covert measures either.

[Matt1959]

Roy, looking at your website, the message that comes across is that you are very price concious and your work is done on price. There are lots of people that love this. On the other hand, as mentioned on this thread, there are those trades that are getting top money from perhaps a different set of customers. I wonder who makes the most profit cos its profit that counts not how busy you are. I'm intrigued by your approach I must say:)

[grangejoinery]

Quoting is the most important part of any business I would have thought, I try and make our quotes as fair as possible but you have to get the balance right there's no point me quoting just enough to pay me an hourly rate. I have to make enough money over the year to pay all the costs of running my business as well as paying me for doing the work.

There has been times when I have over quoted for a job and I've got it even when I didn't want the job, so price is not always the winning factor. I think that personality comes into play when you are a tradesman quoting for work, especially with domestic clients. If an old lady doesn't feel comfortable having you in their home then doesn't matter wether you charge nothing, she will not give the work to you.

I like the idea of the database though, might steal that idea if that's okay?;)

[roythehandyman]

Well mat1959, There is that old saying " small profits quick returns" In this day and age, the customer that doesent care how much he/she pays for a job is getting as rare as hens teeth. So I make a lot of small profits from hanging a door and thinkofapriceanddoubleit ltd make a large profit now and again. Swings and rounderbouts me thinks. I went through the last recession and was never short of work which is more than I can say for a lot of the boys that chased the "yuppies" cash. I have never beeen stung either. Overprice a job and you are laying yourself open to a "don't wana pay merchant" to complain that he was charged three times as much as his neighbour for the same job! I mostly agree with you grangejoinery, I must say though that I never overquoute in order to avoid a job. I tell them straight out if Im not interested, Better that, than ending up with a job you don't want. I agree that price is not the be all and end all, But if you get the price right then the customer will probebly further investigate you as it were. If you need any help with the database feel free to ask. I enjoy formulas.

[Matt1959]

interesting comment about the dont wanna pay merchants. I've had a couple of jobs where I've quoted very high and they've been accepted but then declined later. I knew the quotes were high (too high?) and its often quite easy to persuade someone to pay an amount for work done BUT everyone reflects afterwards and has a chat with Uncle Bill etc and some bright spark will always say "blimey thats dear" and then the potential client gets the seed of doubt in his mind and its all downhill from there - so I do see what you mean.

I don't think though that by quoting on the high side, the guys on here are being oppourtunistic ( I agree that those days are gone) its just they are not quoting low.

Like I said, its what your profit is at the end of the day that counts most. You do come across like the Ling of the handyman world and I can see why people would use you and why you would always be busy.

[lockie]

Roy the reason why your customers are very priced orientated is because your website is obviously aimed at those on a budget or who are price concious. The types of fonts used,copy etc will appeal to those after a bargain.

Now if you were to have a different type of site aimed at a different type of customer then you would perhaps see why i said price doesnt matter to everyone.
Its like going fishing to catch one type of fish,you need to use the appropriate bait.
Your bait obviously works for what you catch but that doesnt mean others cannot get different results by using different bait.

Also different geographical locations make a massive difference too.
Marketing is the biggest skill needed for any tradesman because without it the phone wont ring so you can even give a quote.

Btw roy you could increase your response from the website by adding your phone number to every page.

[morticetennon]

:) Good morning every one and season greetings to you all.Thank you all for the reply's it's realy opened a can of worms here. On reading through them this morning there are so many ideas in the way that we quote, niether, I beleave are right or wrong, we quote in the style of who we are or where we are in our location of the country, what is right for one may not be right for another but in saying this throwing ideas at one another is good in it's aspect of learning, there's always something that we can learn from each other. Keep it coming

[BakerSN1]

I have a client, builder (extensions and small new builds), who puts on his quotes that he is fully insured by Norwich Union and provides a summary of what he is covered for (provided by us, on our headed paper, so they know it's legit).

He reckons that his quotes are more successful because of this as;

1. He gives the info rather than having to be asked and
2. Some of his competitors are with other, less known or respected insurers.

This year he chose to stay with Norwich Union at renewal, even though we obtained a quote from another insurer who was quoting a saving of 15% (£2,000).

note: I'm not saying Norwich Union are the best (before I get 100 reasons why they aren't). But in the eyes of many consumers, they feel more confident as they recognise the name.

[Matt1959]

Btw roy you could increase your response from the website by adding your phone number to every page.

Alan, I've seen a number of people saying this and I've often wondered about it. I mean, with a specialist service like yours and certainly mine, if somone goes to the trouble of getting on to our sites then you'd think they'd have the savvy to just click the mouse once onto the contact page in order to get a phone number. Seems to beggar belief that we lose some enquiries cos people are too lazy to click like that!! I guess you've done some testing with this....

[estwig]

Alan, I've seen a number of people saying this and I've often wondered about it. I mean, with a specialist service like yours and certainly mine, if somone goes to the trouble of getting on to our sites then you'd think they'd have the savvy to just click the mouse once onto the contact page in order to get a phone number. Seems to beggar belief that we lose some enquiries cos people are too lazy to click like that!! I guess you've done some testing with this....

I had similar problems with our portfolio, people didn't realise it ran to 4 pages, they didn't see the page1, page2 and so on. I don't think people are lazy in not clicking the contact us page, we take the simplest of webby type stuff for granted, the vast majority of people do not 'get' computers or the internet at all. We have to make it as easy as possible for them to contact us and hold their hand were ever possible.

[lockie]

Alan, I've seen a number of people saying this and I've often wondered about it. I mean, with a specialist service like yours and certainly mine, if somone goes to the trouble of getting on to our sites then you'd think they'd have the savvy to just click the mouse once onto the contact page in order to get a phone number. Seems to beggar belief that we lose some enquiries cos people are too lazy to click like that!! I guess you've done some testing with this....

Its not about being lazy, i had to really look on roys site for the number.Its not a dig either as its something i myself did in the past too.I was getting annoyed slightly that i couldnt find it straight away so how must a customer feel ? After learning about marketing it kept going on about "calls to action" so i tried it and yes it works.

Just adding calls to action like "call now" increased the amount of calls i got overnight.
I then realised i was getting many calls from those who wanted prices yet just below the call to action it explained how to get a price.It proved to me without a doubt people generally will do as they are told if they are interested.
I moved the call to action further down and these types of calls dropped and i got more email enquiries which i was after as its easier to deal with them.

Im always testing various things copy,fonts,size of font,images etc and it does make a difference.I found having one certain image on a page increased enquiries.

The only way to find out what works for you is to test,test,test.

You cannot dismiss anything unless you test it first.

Im sure steve gibson will be along soon to add some of his excellent knowledge.

[Matt1959]

great reply Lockie, some good info there....