PPC versus PPP

[keyaudioads]

This is really to get a feel for members views on the audio ads my ad service provides (see audio-adverts.com (http://audio-adverts.com) for details) and traditional PPC type ads as supplied by Google Adsense, Bidvertiser etc.

You all know how pay per click works I guess. You bid on keywords and your ads will appear on websites that are part of the PPC network and if someone clicks on the ad - you get a visitor and you pay for that click!

The audio ads (or pay per play - ppp) is a bit different in that a short targeted audio ad (max 10 seconds) created by the advertiser plays automatically when a web page in the network loads and is heard by the user as long as their speakers are on. The audio ad includes the ability to ask a user to press a keyboard key to be redirected to the advertiser's website. That action is comparable to a click in PPC.

Now with PPC, the advertiser relies on the user noticing the ad somewhere on the web page, and then taking action to click it. With the audioad, they'll hear it immediately and then they can decide to press the key to visit the site or not.

I am interested in how members here view this advertising medium.

The service was only launched in mid November so you may not have come across this before. I've already had requests to include other options and functionality (other than audio), but the more opinion I get the better - hence this request.

I'm really interested in your feedback positive or negative both from the advertiser's point of view, and the internet user.


Thank you for your time

[gooner]

My view would be I would certainly test it, after all the only way to know is to try. From an advertisers perspective, It is interesting.

From a user perspective I find audio ads annoying, like those ones where the little guy comes on my screen to tell me all about the site !.

I would imagine the harder part from your side is the distribution and getting publishers that match my target audience.

[keyaudioads]

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes the publisher base is already there in place, but we are looking at the best ad format to deliver.

Currently we offer audio only, but we're looking at Video/Text/Banner/Flash as well.

So as an advertiser you would test it, but as a user you wouldn't be so keen?

What do you think the maximum length of of audio ad would be 'acceptable' without causing a user to look for the back button? Ours last around 8 to 10 seconds. The kind you refer to, I know go on and on.

Thanks again, this is useful

[gooner]

So as an advertiser you would test it, but as a user you wouldn't be so keen?


From and advertising perspective, yes I would try it. As a user I know that anything that gets in the way of what I was doing, I find annoying. Quite a few sites these days have the virtual person talking to me on the landing page, when that happens I can't close it down fast enough. After saying all of that though, those pages work, which is why I keep an open mind to it. I have had plenty of people tell me they can't make money with ads on facebook, I do ok, it is just about how you use it.
One other comment to help you. I have 2 teenage kids, I learn more about how I market online now by watching them online. Would your ads annoy them ? They say no !. Hell you would have to have something to grab them, as you have to get past the msn messenger, the youtube video playing, and the online game first.

[keyaudioads]

One other comment to help you. I have 2 teenage kids, I learn more about how I market online now by watching them online. Would your ads annoy them ? They say no !.

Actually that is a really useful snippet of info. Belonging to the 40 something brigide I can understand how some of my generation might be turned off by audio ads, but as you say, the younger crowd are used to Web 2.0 stuff, audio/video/flash etc so they may be a more receptive audience and more likely to react positively to the message in the ad.

Thanks for that

[quikshop]

Now with PPC, the advertiser relies on the user noticing the ad somewhere on the web page, and then taking action to click it. With the audioad, they'll hear it immediately and then they can decide to press the key to visit the site or not.

I can't imagine anything more annoying than random promotional audio ads. Hopefully that will go the way of pop-under ad pages and Woolworths :rolleyes:

ed: and I'm not a 40 something either ;)

[Digger1]

I can't imagine anything more annoying than random promotional audio ads.

Likewise, audio ads are significantly more intrusive than video or other mediums. Just think of the times you have been watching TV and the sound increases when the commercials start, highly annoying, but it's done for a reason.

Saying that, still worth testing. ;)

[keyaudioads]

audio ads are significantly more intrusive than video or other mediums

One option were looking at is giving the user the choice of stopping the ad, just like at home you'd have the remote control and could switch channels. It would play once the page elements had loaded, but there'd be a method they could use to stop it.

Most (if not all) forms of advertising interrupt or distract you from what you were normally doing to some degree - to get your attention, and these audio ads get your attention. What if 990 people out of 1000 switched off the ad, but the other 10 went on to buy a car from the advertiser.

[Digger1]

What if 990 people out of 1000 switched off the ad, but the other 10 went on to buy a car from the advertiser.

Then it would be a success. :)

[quikshop]

What if 990 people out of 1000 switched off the ad, but the other 10 went on to buy a car from the advertiser.

No-one who understands how marketing works would be happy putting a bad impression of their brand into the minds of 990 people for the sake of 10 positives.

You might be responsible for single-handedly doubling website bounce rates overnight ;)

[Digger1]

No-one who understands how marketing works would be happy putting a bad impression of their brand into the minds of 990 people for the sake of 10 positives.

I agree that audio ads may be intrusive, however just because 990 people have not responded it doesn't mean it has left a bad impression.

[quikshop]

I agree that audio ads may be intrusive, however just because 990 people have not responded it doesn't mean it has left a bad impression.

Instrusive advertising leads to a negative response. That response might just be a 'not going to that web page again', or it could come up in a conversation with their friends about this annoying ad for bobs cars on such-n-such a website the other day.

Word of mouth is the best marketing tool available, its also has the potential to be the most damaging to a brand.

The only way I could ever see this working is if its a) very specifically targeted to a young audience, and b) uses humour or a wow-factor display that appeals to impressionable young people.

It will hopefully go the way of other irritating ad mechanisms like pop-under windows and expanding flash ads when you drag your mouse pointer over them by mistake.

[keyaudioads]

Seems the main objection to the audio ad is the fact the user has no choice but to listen to it, and their only alternative is to leave that page. As mentioned above, that could have a negative impact on that site putting that person off visiting it again.

Other web page advertising (banners/links/pop unders/pop overs/video/flash/fly-outs etc) all intrude and interupt the users browsing experience to different degrees. But they feature on the vast majority of websites so web advertising isn't going away (infact new methods may emerge as technology changes).

Audio already features in that list with banners, flash, video etc. So putting two ad formats side by side for example:

1) a banner with the flying ducks, trying to get you to shoot them - it speaks to you asking you to take a shot - or something like that, but there's audio involved without the user having to interact with the banner) and
2) a standard 8 second audio ad that played automatically offering you the choice to press a key to visit a website

In the case of the banner, you have something visual to relate to when the audio plays, but that isn't the case with the audio ad itself. There is no visual clue it's about to play.

Considering these two options, which would be the least objectionable and what in your mind (if anything) would make them acceptable? (For example if you could turn the audio off, or opt to turn the audio on etc)

Thanks again

[quikshop]

The problem you are going to have is that audio intrusion stops people thinking. Visual adverts are easily scanned over, absorbed and either acted upon or ignored in a matter of fractions of a second. It doesn't impact on people's train of thought.

An audio ad will 'force' people to stop what they are thinking and, even for just a second or two focus on the source and purpose of the noise. The majority reaction, I suspect, will be utter irritation (especially if they are inflicted with noisy ads web site after web site), resulting in a negative impresion for the advertiser and a higher bounce rate for the website featuring the ad.

The reaction is of course for you to research and decide whether or not your scheme could work, and if so with what audience and in what setting, i.e. social networking sites, gaming sites etc will undoubtedly have the most receptive audience.

Relevance as well, a noisy ad promoting a game on a gaming website will probably be very effective. A noisy ad selling cars on a news portal will really irritate!

You also have the limitation of only ever being able to have one noisy ad per page at any one time, could you imagine the racket if you had a list of sponsored noisy ads down the right hand side of a web page :eek::D

[G. Lasagne]

Do the ads appear when people click on your website? If so then the potential customer is already on your website and therefore does not need directing by audio.
Or can the ads appear on different sources such as google searches or other websites.
I dont quite understand?

[keyaudioads]

Do the ads appear when people click on your website? If so then the potential customer is already on your website and therefore does not need directing by audio.
Or can the ads appear on different sources such as google searches or other websites.
I dont quite understand?

Your ad for your product/service may be played on one site. If the listener is interested after hearing your ad, they can press a key to visit your site and read about your product

[G. Lasagne]

but how do you get permission?
I mean i couldnt just place a ppp ad on the corgi website could i? or is it only sites that i own?

[keyaudioads]

We have a publisher network and ads are served to appropriate sites depending on the advertisers targeting criteria.

[G. Lasagne]

so in a nutshell if i wanted an advert on www.screwfix.com could you put it on for me?

[keyaudioads]

We have a network of publishers that own their own websites and in return for a percentage of the advertiser spend, they agree to allow our audio ads to play on their web pages. Screwfix isn't part of our current network. Check the the website www.audio-adverts.com (http://www.audio-adverts.com) for details.

[G. Lasagne]

I am sorry but im still confused, i have checked the website and cant see your list of who is on your network.
I mean if i wanted to advertise my business using ppp where would you advise putting the ads on your network, can you give me an example of a site in your network that would bring me traffic. Bearing in mind i am a plumber and not a seo business.
I understand totally the concept, but cant understand how it works, you say screwfix is not on your network so who is?

[keyaudioads]

You can specifiy the type of website you want to target. Our ad server decides which sites to play your audio ads on based on the criteria you set. So as your local market is the North East - you would probably target that market in particular using our geo targeting.

Our publishers place the code to their own websites, just in the same way publishers add Google adsense code to their websites. Its impossible to know exactly which sites host our code as it gets added to new sites all the time as new publishers sign up.

The main thing is the person (your potential customer) that is visiting the website - the listener in our case. He could be on any website but still have a need for a plumber. So if he lived in the North Shields area for example and was on a site hosting our code, your ad could play and you might get a new customer.

You can hear samples on our site. If you want to explore this offline, just drop us an email (address on the site)

[G. Lasagne]

I understand now.
Yeah i have used ppc, and would consider any advertising medium, how do your prices per click compare to that of ppc?
How is the price you pay worked out? I mean is it done on keywords or just geo targeting?
If i had a 8 second ad on the evening chronichle website and somebody clicked on it "roughly" how much would it cost?
I know it is rough but is it nearer 10p or £1 or what?
How do i know how much i have to pay?

[keyaudioads]

gasangel, would you mind if we took this 'off post' as I don't want this thread to be seen as an attempt to find business - it was started to debate the pay per click versus the pay per play advertising models :) and that still holds true.

I'll drop you a PM with some more info

[keyaudioads]

Thanks to all who have offered their feedback on this pay-per-click versus pay-pay-audioplay debate. Some good stuff has emerged and as a result, we are going to consider a few changes to the way our audio ads work.

Some of you liked the concept from an advertiser point of view since the audio gets the user's attention immediately. And some didn't like the intrusion from the user's point of view since there was no way to switch the audio off.

Over the next week or so, we'll be uploading some alternative audio advertising models which will address the intrusion aspect, whilst retaining other features.

Again, it would be really useful to gather feedback on these new alternatives from the posters in this thread, and any other members as well.

I'll post the URLs in due course, but meantime if any member has any further ideas or comments around this debate, please post them

[keyaudioads]

As mentioned, we've made some changes and are keen to get your feedback, so we're giving some ads away for free.

If any UKBF members would like some freebies just PM me for details.

[Encompass]

I would not sure if I like the idea of PPP. The whole reason why PPC ads were so successful is because you only pay when someone clicks on your ad rather than when someone just sees it.

From the sounds of it you pay every time your ad is played which means you are taking a step back and charging “per play/impression”. It might be worth considering charging when an action is performed to go to that advertisers website.

As for the annoyance of this type of advertising only time will tell and in the end society will decide. If they hate it, it will die a fast death, else it could be the next advertising craze. Personally I would find it very annoying in most circumstances. I think it would only be appropriate if it was highly targeted; like if I was searching to buy a BMW and the ad was about a BMW sale in my area.

[keyaudioads]

An advertiser buys a block of ads and the price reflects the fact a play counts for every impression. PPC like you say, pay per click, but you need the consumer to see your ad, read your ad and then decide to click your ad. And depending on the keywords you bid on that click could cost you a few dollars.

The beauty of our ads from an advertiser's view is that they grab the consumer's attention. Now that we have the visual banner as well, the can opt to tun the audio off if they want and they'd still see the banner.

So advertisers get two for the price of one.

encompass - if you have an offline or online business - the offer for some free advertising still stands

[quikshop]

Are you a reseller of the audio-adverts.com system from the States, or is that your website as well?

[keyaudioads]

No it's my business and I've refined it thanks to some great feedback from this forum

[quikshop]

No it's my business and I've refined it thanks to some great feedback from this forum

I know its your business, but I'm confused about you linking through to the audio-adverts.com website which is an American business.

It comes across like an affiliate set-up, or perhaps reselling a US service to the UK market under a franchise or distribution agreement.

Either way, as Encompass mentioned, regardless of my earlier comments about my personal view of this type of advertising, selling ads on impressions rather than click-throughs is a step backwards and not a very attractive proposition for advertisers.

I just cannot see this working especially to a UK audience, either from a consumers or advertisers perspective.

[keyaudioads]

Sorry for the confusion. audio-adverts.com is just one domain we market the service under. keyaudioads.com site is really aimed at the publisher/affiliate side of things. audio-adverts.com attracts the advertisers.

I just cannot see this working especially to a UK audience, either from a consumers or advertisers perspective.

I appreciate what you are saying, but really it depends upon the service being advertised. I understand some companies target narrow niche markets and would want to target to specific audiences. Our ads may not be suitable for them. But other companies/advertisers want much broader/general exposure.

If I may use some examples, consider pepsi. They would not want to target drinks websites in particular - they would be more interested in mass exposure.

What about a plumber. Their ad might play to a specific geo audience in their area and they might get several people bookmark them for future need, (we all need a plumber some time - but can never find one when the time comes around). They would be interested in more general exposure to get their name known.

There's arguments for both sides.

But since we've introduced the visual aspect which compliments the audio, interest has increased. Advertisers effectively get two ads for the price of one, and these ads certainly grab consumer attention.:)

If you run your own business (online or offline) why not try us out. We'll give you some free impressions and you can see how it works for you?