national marketing advice please

[cheekymonkey]

Hi guys,

I have over the past years successfully started a number of local businesses and feel comfortable in the marketing and advertising of these.

Now i have a new idea for a national property related website that will appeal to anyone looking to buy, sell or rent property in the UK (it also offers a libary of advice on these matters). My issue is that i have never done anything at a national level before. I am very aware that it is so much easier to market locally as its a smaller target market and cheaper. Also to this i dont have a huge marketing budget in mind, but i am aware that online marketing would be my best route as there is ways of getting good results for little money, i.e facebook, google ads etc...

I would love to hear from anyone that has acheived this? Also anyone that can offer any advise and ideas of this matter.

I know there will be a few of you that will come back with "you cannot advertise nationally without a good budget", BUT the fact is i dont have a big budget, so i am prepared to cash in on every oppornunity that may arise and chip away bit by bit.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...

Thanks guys

[oldeagleeye]

Why try to flog a dead horse. No amount of marketing can compete with Rightmove and the other big players in this markey. You have missed the boat on this one OP. Sorry.

[downsouth]

Phew, very ambitious to start with without relevant experience, but have you not noticed that the big boys seem to have these internet property sites totally wrapped up

rightmove
propertyfinder
primelocation

Wish you well but you've already answered one of the restricting factors

[Mark Nagurski]

that will appeal to anyone looking to buy, sell or rent property in the UK

I'd start with that statement and tighten up your focus - 'anyone' is too broad a market and will be little use to you if your budget is limited.

There are plenty of businesses on here that successfully attract trade from across the UK - but all have a clear customer focus.

If you can refine this down to one or two clearly identifiable, well-researched and very distinct markets then you might have something to work with.

And you'll avoid going head to head with the bigger players.

(it also offers a libary of advice on these matters).

This could well be the focus of your marketing - if you create some useful content that nobody else can offer (or offer in the same way) then you can compete.

If you go ahead, invest you time and energies in (a) great content and (b) a remarkable service. Do those two things for a well-defined market and much of your marketing will be of the word-of-mouth variety.

[oldeagleeye]

I think you are giving the OP false hope Mark. The whole market is tied up and right the way through from expensive property to student accommodations and people are not going to advertise on an unkown site.

Before you can even get there though what about the web site. That is going to cost with a database. Homebuying info is everywhere. That ain't gonna provide unique content. Virtual tours cost money and they ain't gonna do it. They have been around for years.

Sorry OP this is a no brainer. Why not tell us about your other businesses and we might be able to give you a few ideas how to roll them out. Rob

[directmarketingadvice]

I understand what oldeagleeye is saying and, at a certain level, he's right.

However, I wouldn't go as far as saying the whole field is sown up, just that you're either going to

(a) need to be offering something truly unique

or

(b) if you're going up against the big boys, be willing to spend proper money to get yourself noticed.

I can't comment more without understanding the general nature of how you're trying to make money with this.

Steve

[betterletter]

please pm me

[betterletter]

please pm me

[cheekymonkey]

sorry guys i might of not worded this right. My site is not a property portal. It doesnt sell properties. My site is more of a information and referance provider regarding the process of buying, selling, renting etc... vistors will be able to log on, read information about the process and click through and be referred to companies for services and products like hips, conveyancing etc...

The big portal sites are very good at selling houses, but do not offer much in the way of information on the process. I have noticed that the vast amount of general public are a little bit clueless regarding the process, especially if they have not moved in the last 5 years and also with the goverment introduction of hips etc...

[oldeagleeye]

Monkey. Take a walk along any high street. By the time you get to the end you will have some many booklets aimed at homebuyers offering adive to won't be able to carry them home. All this advice is also repeated on every biilding socitety and banks web sites and money comparrison sites too.

You simply will not get paying advertisers mate let alone visitors. All this was done 10 years ago.

[cheekymonkey]

Thank you for your reply, but i have to disagree. I have done a vast amount of property related work and I would say that through the people I meet, on average 7/10 do not know the procedure to buying, selling and renting and ove half of them do not know where to go to find good providers like hips and convenyancying.

They are also becoming very aware that the products offered by local estate agents are over priced, as they charge the earth for them. Example. HIP. my local estate agencys charge £399.00, BUT you can buy the same him on the internet for £180.



Monkey. Take a walk along any high street. By the time you get to the end you will have some many booklets aimed at homebuyers offering adive to won't be able to carry them home. All this advice is also repeated on every biilding socitety and banks web sites and money comparrison sites too.

You simply will not get paying advertisers mate let alone visitors. All this was done 10 years ago.

[oldeagleeye]

Disagree all you like. I was a mortgage broker - ney a master mortgage broker for 20 years I think I know a bit more about the business than you. As for HP. It is being scraped as unworkable so don't pin you hopes on that.

You know Cheeky one of the secrets of being an entrepreneur is listening to good advice. In this case your 10 years too late. You haven't got a hope in hell of getting advertisers because your web site will simply be lost in cyberspace. Above all however you have not learned one simple lesson.

That there is a great deal of difference between being determined to see something through and just being dogmatic or pig headed about a unrealistic venture.

I don't mean that in an offensive way. I would say the same thing to my own son. That and don't waste your time on this one. Look for a niche market which is more viable.

[activehedgehog1]

There is not a lot of comparison pages focused directly at new buyers. I think this should be your market. And as for advertising, you just make it a portal and earn off of commission, although now is not the right time to get into property, its probably the time to get cheap advertising in magazines such as what mortgage. Also the thing that people need to realise is there are a lot of people going outside the estate agents. There are the big property portals but rightmove is now up against globrix, prime location. If you could get a decent amount of people offering hips etc on your website then it could be worth something, however nowadays you need to be sure about the technology behind it, i would want instant quotes, thats where the cost is in the technology.

[cheekymonkey]

thats for all your comments so far. i have found a company to power the comparison side of the site, so that should work well. im looking at cashing in on as many different revenue sources as possible through the site. I have a list of possible streams. anyone else suggest others?

[LowcostPR]

Hi Cheekymonkey.

First of all, I'd like to say that Oldeagleeye is right. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the market is totally tied up, but it is very top heavy with cash-rich firms who will simply out market you if you try and take them on their turf.

Having said that, it is possible to succeed. I cannot think of any market more saturated than the drinks industry, but that didn't stop Innocent making it!

You need to have a totally unique angle (and you need to be brutally honest with yourself first how unique it is, as the market will tell you the hard way afterwards if you're wrong) and you do need to have the pennies to spend on the marketing. It's all well saying that you don't have it, but if you don't then don't bother.

If it's a truly fantastic idea, then you may want to look for an investor who can provide that kind of money to lift you to the level where you can compete on your own unique merits. Again, that's how Innocent were able to roll out so far.

I wish you the best of luck with your venture!

[oldeagleeye]

I wish him luck too. Although I would repeat every high street bank and buiding society has dozens of booklets for first time buyers. Your point about Innocent PR guy however is totally out of context. That company started with a unique product that got a cult following at festivals and indeed runs it's own. The management of the company is quite special too and the supermakets bought into the high ethical standards of the company just as much as the product.

What we are talking about here however is another bog standrad on-line portal that as you say will be crunched if it ever became a danger to the big boys - and I doubt that will ever happen.

New and unique OP. Until you get that right I am afraid you are going to fail.

[LowcostPR]

That's what I mean. If it's another bog-standard portal, it will fail before it begins.

What you'd need is something totally unique, not just in product but in presentation, in image, in marketing and pretty much everything, hence my Innocent analogy.

Although I cannot even think of any way of offering a totally unique way of doing this, so Cheekymonkey it is all the luck in the world.

[cheekymonkey]

i understand what you guys are saying, but its a different product! My site is not a portal, I dont sell houses on it. I only provide information and house moving products, so I feel that i would run along side the portals and not against them??!!

Also I feel that this might be a good time to set up, as the property market is always in the press at the mo, and it is at the front of most peoples minds.

[LowcostPR]

But don't forget that the property market is in the press at the moment because no-one is buying any houses.

House sales are down, mortgage applications are down, mortgage acceptances are down. This is what the press are saying, so because it is at the front of most peoples minds doesn't automatically mean they will come a-flocking to you.

So what exactly will you be providing to a house buyer (I ask as I am not familiar with the house selling market)?

[cheekymonkey]

Hi LowcostPR,

OK, will give you an example. Off the top of your head, do you know what you need and the procedure for selling your house you live in right now? Is its a good time to sell? the conveyancing process? The best place to find products like HIPS etc, what is a good price for a HIP?... what is the best mortgage at mo? Do you need a survey? What sort of survey? Where to get a survey? Where to find a good removal company? How much should they cost? other expenses relating to moving, that people dont think of? Locksmith services for your new home? The cheapest utility suppliers for your new house? The list goes on and on...

The reason I ask this is I was an estate agent for many years and these questions were all questions that the general public did not have a clue about!! And thats why when i went out to list a property, I would use their lack of knowledge as a good way to sell my estate agents recommended products, services and suppliers.


But don't forget that the property market is in the press at the moment because no-one is buying any houses.

House sales are down, mortgage applications are down, mortgage acceptances are down. This is what the press are saying, so because it is at the front of most peoples minds doesn't automatically mean they will come a-flocking to you.

So what exactly will you be providing to a house buyer (I ask as I am not familiar with the house selling market)?

[LowcostPR]

I have a basic idea, because I tried to buy a place in November last year (thank God it fell through eh?) and I took the time to find out what I need to do, but I appreciate that some people simply cannot be bothered to find out the important facts, which leaves them open to "well, I recommend this" which is not always in their interest.

So you would be a kind of comparison site for the services needed to buy a house then?

[cheekymonkey]

yea i would be a comparison site for related products and services and also a information site regarding, buying, selling, renting homes etc..

I am also looking into adding a small forum so people can discuss their experiences and tips. Also a blog style area where my visitors can ask property related questions and I can provide answers for everyone to see. I want to include live feeds from other sites on property news as well.

So as you can see, apart from the private sales section, the rest would happily run along side any portal and they would compliment each other.

Leading on from this I would eventually like to add a private sell and rental section, where the public can pay a small fee to advertise their properties.

[LowcostPR]

My advice is to develop the ideas over the next couple of years, team up with the best people you can, and work on it on a theoretical basis.

However.... do NOT launch it at the moment. The property market is floundering and as good an idea as it may be, the market is receding meaning you will have to put in 10 times the work to get anywhere.

When the property market bottoms out (give it two or three years) then launch. The market will rise again, and as we all know a rising tide lifts all boats. If you start now, you run the risk of collapsing in a low market, meaning you cannot relaunch in the boom time.

To give an analogy, if you were going to invest in some shares that were dropping, why on earth would you buy now knowing they were going to drop even further, and not bottom out for a couple of years? Why not wait until the bottom of the drop and start from there?

In two or three years, you could develop a fantastic website, develop some good links with solicitors/insurance companies/mortgage companies and have a fantastic site when you launch.

I appreciate you are itching to get going now, but you'll really regret it over the next couple of years as you desperately fight for a dropping audience with the big boys.

[cheekymonkey]

thank you for your advise, doesnt it not make sense to start off now and build low risk and slowly, so the product is there and established for when the market changes?

Also would this site attract any good PR?? newspapers?? is there a possible story?

[wood1e2]

I think I have an idea of what you are looking for...but having a website cobbled together using open source, forum/blog and directory software you may lose out because the site will not be as smooth and professional as it could be. ie if you went for a bespoke solution, which you may have to do anyway...

If you are getting companies willing to provide information for the comparision element then how will they provide this info? XML feed? You don;t want to be updating the info manually...

What will they want in terms of a fee for providing the info?

As for starting now, why not, you may not get the numbers now, but if you are unique you will be there when the market picks up.

Can you offord to run the website for the next 2 or 3 years free?

Do exactly what rightmove did and offer it free until companies cannot be with out it, then charge them.

The actual idea could work, the problem is there are hundreds of 'tradesman' sites and hundreds of mortgage comparasion sites, so nothing unique there.

As for HIPS, I don;t know if there is anything in the market place for them. But with a change of government you might find them removed from legal requirement...I don't that is what opposition parties are proclaiming but there has been a huge fuss over them and it would be a vote winner if they were removed.

[LowcostPR]

Simply, no it does not make sense. As the market is currently dropping down, you will be starting in a situation where every day has fewer prospective customers than the previous. This is possibly the worst time to start a company.

I would say that a website like yours needs to, as the saying goes, "go with a bang"! You will need to have a good publicity campaign going to get as much interest as possible right at the beginning, and you will be really struggling at the most vital time of the business.

Let's put it this way. You will have to start your company running at full pelt. Do you want to start now running on sand, with a tyre dragging behind you, or in a few years when the market picks up, and start running on a forward moving travellator (or whatever those things in Airports are called)?

It has very good PR potential. It is the sort of thing I would try and get onto the radio or TV, so there's something to think about, and having a promotional offer for the first month or so. The "start with a bang" companies are my personal favourite, but timing is everything so there would be no good throwing it away when the market is dropping.

[cheekymonkey]

i already have a company that will power my comparison side for most of the products and services. I simply integrate their software into my site and have already agreed starting commission rates for cold leads. Thats what makes my idea so simply. All the comparison side is taken care of, so it really is possible income, for not doing to much.

I think the main area for hard work and cost will be the actual updating of the information (How to) side and more importantly the marketing of the site at national level. I was considering launching now and mainly just concentrating on low cost online marketing, save any income i receive and then use it on a big marketing campaign once the market changes.

[cheekymonkey]

The biggest issue to waiting years is, i could aso miss the boat! Im sure it wont be long before more sites come out like mine. I would hate to wait 2 years and then here about a site like my idea that has now dominated the market place and doing well.

Do you think that this would be a good enough idea to maybe look at attracting a investor? Apart from the timing aspect, i would be interested to hear what they would say on dragons den about it?? haha. A big investment from someone could really make a huge difference to the size if the marketing campaign hey!

I am guessing that you are a specialist with marketing and PR, if this was a good time. What ball park figure would you put on the campaign to successful launch?


Simply, no it does not make sense. As the market is currently dropping down, you will be starting in a situation where every day has fewer prospective customers than the previous. This is possibly the worst time to start a company.

I would say that a website like yours needs to, as the saying goes, "go with a bang"! You will need to have a good publicity campaign going to get as much interest as possible right at the beginning, and you will be really struggling at the most vital time of the business.

Let's put it this way. You will have to start your company running at full pelt. Do you want to start now running on sand, with a tyre dragging behind you, or in a few years when the market picks up, and start running on a forward moving travellator (or whatever those things in Airports are called)?

It has very good PR potential. It is the sort of thing I would try and get onto the radio or TV, so there's something to think about, and having a promotional offer for the first month or so. The "start with a bang" companies are my personal favourite, but timing is everything so there would be no good throwing it away when the market is dropping.

[wood1e2]

I simply integrate their software into my site and have already agreed starting commission rates for cold leads. Thats what makes my idea so simply.

How simple is the integration?
I presume you have not even designed your website yet?
Will you be restricted on what you can do based on the technology of your comparasion supplier?
If they have everything in place why are they not doing it and earning money from the info they have?

Obviously my presumption about the website could be just that!!! :) If it isn't and you are still dead keen on setting the site up I would make sure you have a website in place, while that is being developed you can look into national marketing campaign.

Or don't even worry about national marketing until you have a site to market.

Bare in mind that other comparasion sites use national television, I would suggest you will need a lot of money or a lot of income from a site that had not been marketed...

What might be an idea is to run a forum on this niche then build income from that, then grow and provide the other information...using the income from the forum. Although it would have to be incredibly popular to be able to finance a national tv compaign.

Or the other solution as I mentioned earlier invest heavily get the right website and offer the service free, until clients can't afford to be without it.

[cheekymonkey]

the comparison side of the site is free for vistors, they can request free quotes and from that i make a commission for every cold lead. I thought this was the best approach to start, as i get paid a smaller amount on every lead, but i don`t need to spend anytime converting these leads to hot leads before i pass them on. The company that i will use has a "white label" program and thats how the will power my site.

Im guessing the more sites they power, the more leads and the more comission they make also, but they dont seem to be actively marketing their "white label service" at present and dont have many that i have come accross.

My plan is, once i gain a good history of traffic, i will then look at selling advertising space to property related companies. There are many different bolt on services that i would like to offer along the way, rather not discuss these on here though.

Then once i am established i will then revisit the comparison side of the site and work on how i will make more money from leads. e.g contact suppliers direct so i can power my own comparison area or go back to my present company and agree an increase in commission due to the amount of leads i supply them.

My web designer is in the early stages of designing a mock up for my approval, thats why i am asking questions regarding nlogs etc, as i want to add them to the new design. I already have secured a very catchy and simple domain name and have designed the logo.

[wood1e2]

How are you going to compare? What if you got 3000 comparasion requests in one hour? That gives you little or no time to get back the comparasions?

Even established comparasion sites struggle to keep the comparasion prices near to what they end up actually quoting!!

As you are going ahead with this, start with the website then add the forum once a little more established, nothing worse than an empty forum.

Or build the forum then build the comparasion part of the site.

These are just ideas, not you must do this...

I would love to find out more even look at anything you have done so far. I am not sure it would work, in fact like others on here I think you have less than a 30% chance, but I am intrigued nonetheless... :)

Good luck and let us all know the URL of the BETA version or fully completed version of the site.

[cheekymonkey]

thanks woodie... watch this space!!

[sandgrownun]

I like your idea.. i liked it so much i set up compareconveyancing.com about 18 months ago to do the exact same thing and, whilst conveyancers are struggling, the site is doing very well with its USP being that it does not charge referral fees for its service (unlike estate agents etc). People are becoming wise to paying more than they should and I'm afraid a lot of the dinosaur conveyancing firns will shortly be no more. A good thing in my book.