UK Postage - Franking Machines ?

[Flying Hippy]

Hi,

I wanted to know what people use for their postage for UK post. I currently use Royal Mail, I do between 10 -40 packages a week as I have only been trading for 6 months.

most of my parcels are over 250 grams and fall into the packet range.

I am considering getting a Franking Machine but wanted to know if this is the best option for me or can someone recommend any other options.

[cycloneuk]

I have a PPI number and use the Packetpost service, works for me so far and have had no issues.

[IS-James]

There are two easy options, online postage or a franking machine.

Royal mail offers a service where you can print off your own postage and pay them online for it. This is much more convenient than having to do it at a post office or with stamps although you will still be paying the normal postage cost.



The difference with a franking machine is that you will pay less for your postage. It is only a couple of pennies on a first class letter but it adds up if you are sending out a lot of post, and it is more on parcels. Royal Mail have a pricing guide on their website but for a packet of about 250g the prices are:

First Class (stamps) (franked)
101-250g £1.45 £1.34
251-500g £1.94 £1.68
501-750g £2.51 £2.13

101-250g £1.24 £1.15
251-500g £1.63 £1.41
501-750g £2.08 £1.76

Normally franking machines are leased from a company like Pitney Bowes or Neopost. You pay a monthly cost for the machine starting at about £20 a month. You then either pre-pay money on to the machine or setup a credit account and are billed at the end of the month.

Whether a franking machine is worth the monthly cost depends on how much it would save you. If you do go down this route I would advise you to stay away from Pitney Bowes, we have a franking machine with them at the moment and their service is pretty terrible. Also watch out for charges for adding money to the franking machine and for updating the postage rates each year as these are often in the small print.

[Christiane]

I am on Packetpost and it's great. You get a PPI number and print sheets of stamps with no value, simply ''postage paid''.
With PPI, you pay for the cost of the average weight, ie divide total weight by number of parcels. I saved quite a bit when I changed to PPI. I think you need to send -or spend- a minium amount with Royal Mail but you can always ask.
I have a collection too, I believe the Post offices are not too happy about taking PPI post as there's no revenue in it for them.

There is too much hassle and hidden cost with a franking machine, I looked at it last year. You pay for each top up, ink, roll, etc. I had done a comparison on excel with postage I was paying and postage I would pay with a franking machine and the savings weren't worth it. I saved 10 times more on PPI.

Have you considered smartstamp? I only use it for the Specials and the international post but it's very handy to have.

[Peter1982]

we had a franking machine from Pitney Bowes for a few weeks but sent it back. The hidden costs they don't tell you about are terrible! £9.00 just to add credit to the machine and the ink is expensive. Their sales team doesn't tell you these things!

We now have a royal mail PPI, it's really easy and works out a fair bit cheaper.

[Jheath]

I'm interested in moving from franking machine for small packets to PPI Packetpost. Does anyone know if it's possible to use this as a tracked service?

And do you think there's a big difference in benefit between tracked and signed for? Obviously having a proof of delivery signature is cast iron evidence of delivery, but can more or less the same benefit be had with tracked, but lower cost?

The items we send are typically £20 to £60 value. We don't have too many claims of non delivery, but we're expanding on ebay shortly and I understand it's rife among paypal users who then claim a refund.

Any advice or experiences appreciated

Our franking machine is a Neopost IJ25. The cartridges are ***** expensive and are chipped preventing refilling. We don't use the integrated scales so avoiding the rip off charge for the rate chip every time there is a price change, and we use avery style address labels (Viking) 14 to a sheet and fold them down after each print instead of using their expensive franking labels.

[sysops]

Obviously having a proof of delivery signature is cast iron evidence of delivery

No, it isn't, not for any practical purposes.

[Jheath]

really, i'd have thought you could rely on that in court if it came to a dispute?

sounds like you're speaking from experience (not too good by the sound of it)

[sysops]

really, i'd have thought you could rely on that in court if it came to a dispute?


Nope. A signature means nothing, unfortunately.


sounds like you're speaking from experience (not too good by the sound of it)

If the customer has paid using a credit card or paypal, and they claim non-delivery, you have no legal comeback, end of story. You can try all you like, but proving anything is impossible.

[lex]

Another thing is, you cant underpay with PPI packets however if you use a franking machine and manage to put down the wrong postage on your packet/letters then the person recieving the mail will be charged the difference between what you paid and the correct postage + a £1 charge.

[gibby]

weve just been through all of this
has PB on the phone offering big discounts & a free trail but when I checked the contract it was nasty. 12 months , 0870 numbers & some other crap

We did register online with RM although often the cheap option wasnt available to buy.

The all of a sudden a rep from RM turns up, tells us not to look at the PB offer and he has just set up an account where we do everything online, a credit account with a nice discount on normal RM prices, all we have to do it drop it off at the post office unless we want to pay £40 a month to have it picked up

we havnt started yet but will do this week

G

[Marzipan]

As others have said, running costs of a franking machine make it a non-starter, we won't ever have one again. Most of what we sent post is recorded or RMSD so I've not looked too closely at PPI but I'd wonder if the current quantity you're doing Fathippy of 10-40 a week would warrant PPI just yet?

We have a fantastic subpostmaster in our village and we simply drop our parcels down there and he weighs & stamps them, great timesaver for us. The once a week or so we collect the receipts and give him a cheque. If ever we need a tracking number in the meantime we just give him a call and he has it to hand. Great service and it all goes to helping to keep the local PO open - might be worth you investigating what your local PO can offer?

[Jheath]

all we have to do it drop it off at the post office unless we want to pay £40 a month to have it picked up
G

I agree with previous posters that it if you've got a friendly local post office they deserve your support. And if you can cultivate a friendly relationship that's truely worth something.

However for us it's different. The small cost for RM collection is worth it. They come at 5pm (ish) so we can pack late orders right up till then, and the cost £1.80 (ish) per day is cheap compared to the cost of someone leaving the building to drive to a post office each day. Even at NMW pay rates they'd have to be back toot sweet for it to cost less than £1.80, even ignoring fuel and vehicle costs etc.

However, there is a lady who lives in our village and works from home and had a small mail order business. She's got the ultimate green answer to this. She's often seen in the village pushing a wheelbarrow containing she sacks of parcels down the road to the local post office! If we had a local PO round the corner we'd do the same, even though we're on an industrial estate!

Next week I'm going to look into PPI and find out if there is a tracked option too. At least the old Neopost franking machine will only be used for letters, so that should help the expensive ink cartridges last a bit longer!

[petersoftware]

It is right to say that franking machines are more expensive than the reps make out. However they are convenient, and it is this convenience that you pay for, and what they should sell them on.

I used to work for a company that directly competed with a franking machine company and so we were always trying to persuade our customers to go for PPI. I now work for a company that sells franking machines supplies, so I have seen both sides of this market.

There are pros and cons to both. For example Royal Mail have been planning for a while to increase a minimum order value for PPI to maybe £20. This is on hold at the moment, but it may tip the balance for a number of small businesses. Also you have to fill out a docket (either paper or now online) everytime you post an item. The main advantage I see to PPI is that you get to pay after sending the post, where as with franking you have to pay before (deposit money with Neopost or Pitney Bowes).

By the way, there are ways to reduce the cost of your franking machine. At Mailing Supplies Online (http://www.mailingsuppliesonline.com (http://www.mailingsuppliesonline.com/)) we sell compatible ink for many of the Pitney Bowes franking machines. We also sell compatible franking labels. By buying these you can save a large amount of the cost of processing mail by franking machine.

Also it is quite easy to get a franking machine on trial. Go to the following page and click on the link to request info from Pitney Bowes about a free trial.
http://www.mailroomnews.com/specialoffers/franking-special-offer.asp
Just be sure to cancel before the 30 days is up if you do not want to be tied in.

Also, take a look at this article: http://www.mailroomnews.com/articles/The-real-cost-of-franking-384.asp (http://www.mailroomnews.com/articles/The-real-cost-of-franking-384.asp)

[ServersandSpares]

I'd also advise not to touch Pitney Bowes with a bargepole, nothing but trouble from start to finish, the sale people will tell you they are associated with Royal mail, but they are not, and there is no cohesion between the two at all.

The cost of a franking machine for us is worth it, but the hassle is definitely not!

[OhSoCherished]

I'd agree, Pitney Bowes has the most awful customer service. We started off with them and they were just sooooo bad. I've never experienced anything like it to be honest.

We are now on PPI and make a huge saving on postal costs. We sent Next days, signed for and International this way. Works really well for us.

Sarah

[ArmitageShanks]

The minimum for packet post is £5000 annual spend or 5000 items sent.

Also worth looking at destination sort (airmail) minimum spend is £2500- 1kg to USA £3.08+15p item, France £2.40ish.

RMs OBA takes a bit of getting use and so does the bagging and labelling etc. but savings are huge

[Zishan]

This is completely not a plug for Mail Options Ltd, where I work but have any of you guys looked into passing your mail on to a mailing house and piggybacking off their discounts? This coupled with a pick and pack solution can sometimes lead to great savings, especially for international mail.

Just food for thought, i'm glad to elaborate if anyone wishes to hear more.



Zishan

[slipperyjack]

hi guys

noticed ya trouble as soon as joined and pride myslef in the effiency of my post haha.
have had similar problems in the past and have since made a good hook up with a great young chap at a franking machine company i know. not in a tied down contract and get everything i need for £20 a month all in. machine is great, never had problems.
personal message me if you want the number for him, as he gives me free postage for everyone that i refer to him! great guy!

[naturalbeautyscotland]

I use a PPI number and use the Packetpost service (even International) - so far works great for me - Royal Mail has been very helpful - good customer care (so far!) - but I have only be trading for 6 weeks!
Johanna

[paretowasright]

I am on Packetpost and it's great. You get a PPI number and print sheets of stamps with no value, simply ''postage paid''.
With PPI, you pay for the cost of the average weight, ie divide total weight by number of parcels. I saved quite a bit when I changed to PPI. I think you need to send -or spend- a minium amount with Royal Mail but you can always ask.
I have a collection too, I believe the Post offices are not too happy about taking PPI post as there's no revenue in it for them.

There is too much hassle and hidden cost with a franking machine, I looked at it last year. You pay for each top up, ink, roll, etc. I had done a comparison on excel with postage I was paying and postage I would pay with a franking machine and the savings weren't worth it. I saved 10 times more on PPI.

Have you considered smartstamp? I only use it for the Specials and the international post but it's very handy to have.

From memory the minimum is about 800 parcels a month to qualify but if anyone knows for sure please feel free to contradict/correct me.

[Design Initiative]

Franking machines are a rip-off, and with the abundance of alternative postal services such as TNT, Citi Post, City Link, PPI and DX to name a few, there's no need to use an inflexible franking machine tied to the Royal Mail service.

Try alternatives services, save money on your postage, and best of all no more expensive inks, labels, servicing and franking machine rental costs.

All you need to purchase is a weight scale, and your can start enjoying an improved service and big savings!!!! :)

[fulfil_co]

I completely agree. Due to the volume we put through these carriers, we can offer lower rates than Royal Mail and free regular collection for ~180+ items per day.

[SIX1]

From memory the minimum is about 800 parcels a month to qualify but if anyone knows for sure please feel free to contradict/correct me.

You can use PPI to obtain the same rates as Franking with a spend of £5000/year. PacketPost is cheaper again but only for large letters and packets separately as two services with a minimum of 5,000 LL/packets for each (though I don't think RM care too much).

Franking machines will always be more expensive than a PPI account, unless you run an office that send little and often. For anyone selling online an OBA account is the way to go - even if the user interface leaves something to be desired.

James

[sammerz]

Hi

I use a franking machine, as it is the time it saves me from queuing up in the PO and printing out individual labels from PayPal or Royal Mail that make it worth while. You can also have your logo and return address printed on the stamp so it does look professional.

I send about 500-700 parcels a year so I do not qualify for PPI, and a franking machine is the next best alternative and it doesn't have to be as expensive the other posts make out.

If you are unsure take out the free trail (Pitney Bowes) and when they phone you up at the end of th trial, say you are not happy with it etc...and they will give you another number to phone some sort of advanced customer relations! They will reduce costs, for example I got my rental down from £19.14 to £9.95 and they threw in a new ink cartridge and 200 labels...

Also make sure you fill up the machine during the trial as it is free (if you decide to give it back they will refund the balance left) and get your logo organised as it is also free during the trial...

Some things that may have changed from an earlier post is that you are given an automatic credit account so you do not pay for your postage for 30days, which can be vital easing cash flow of a small business...also you no longer need to have machine near a telephone line you can install software on your PC/Laptop and connect via USB and everything is done via broadband so no 0870 numbers! It also take half the time to update...

Anyone thinking of using a franking machine, needs to weigh up the time saved, it does take a while printing individual A4 postage stamps with PayPal especially if you have 10+ to do...also take your previous months postage and work out what you will spend with PB vs RM...The discounts do vary on the types of post you send regularly.

Anyone wanting any further detail, please email...

One final thing is that anyone using PayPal regularly should consider using PayPal Printmaster it must have saved me over 50% of the time spent printing PayPal Delivery Notes etc...

[TheFoneStuff]

I use a PPI number and use the Packetpost service (even International) - so far works great for me - Royal Mail has been very helpful - good customer care (so far!) - but I have only be trading for 6 weeks!
Johanna

Just a Curious question why would you need both? or am I being dumb :|

[kulture]

To use the packetpost service you need a Royal Mail Account. When you get a Royal Mail account you get a rubber stamp (infact 2) which has your PPI number. This is effectively your account number to which the post gets charged.

It is a great service.

[SIX1]

It is a great service.

You're obviously using a different Royal Mail system to the one we use. While I can't argue that the service is cheap, especially given their almost complete monopoly, and that the PPI impressions are simple- Royal Mail's online system you have to use at the end of the day is far from great!

James

[kulture]

You're obviously using a different Royal Mail system to the one we use. While I can't argue that the service is cheap, especially given their almost complete monopoly, and that the PPI impressions are simple- Royal Mail's online system you have to use at the end of the day is far from great!

James

LOL, If you mean the OBA accounts, I agree. That is why I upgraded to despatch express. It prints the labels, AND posts to OBA without me doing anything.