Best Accounting Software

[billie1]

I know this question may have already been asked but the answers have been inconclusive. What is the best accounting software on the market? I would like to provide bookkeeping services, and have been looking at many different softwares. I have to make a decision as to which on I'm going to learn. I heard about, Quickbooks, MYOB, Sage, Kashflow etc.

The cheapest seems to be Quickbooks and MYOB. Sage is very expensive for multi company use and Kashflow is also quite expensive. On the other hand I've heard alot of bad feedback on Quickbooks 2008 and MYOB has now been taken over by Mamut, so its market is uncertain.

Any ideas?

[MyAccountantOnline]

You just know you will be inundated with suggestions:D

Alot gets down to personal preference so I'll kick off first.

For small companies/businesses/our in house VAT/bookkeeping for clients I reckon VT cash book and VT Transaction+ really takes some beating. It is so simple and does the job. On Transaction + you have a full sales and purchase ledger as well and can email invoices etc. The only limitation I see is the reporting options are a bit limited.

I have had some fantastic feedback from clients I have shown VT.

Quickbooks used to be my prefered option for larger clients but having seen a few clients VAT being totally messed up by updates I am a bit relunctant to now recommend and use it.

Sage...I'll politely say is not my cup of tea.

[billie1]

Regarding Quickbooks, isn't the problem with transfering data into updated versions that's posing a problem with VAT? Would a new user have the same problems?

[Peter Bowen]

In all of these packages there are some hidden costs:



Your time in getting up to speed - how fast is it to learn
The software hassles - updating, backups etc
The ongoing costs - do you have to pay for an upgrade every year
The cost of making a mistake - if you buy software in a box and it's not for you you've sunk some money into it - if you rent it monthly it's not a train smash if business conditions change.

My vote comes own to KashFlow for this one.

[DFL]

If you think that Kashflow is quite expensive then you must be misinformed about the price!



I know this question may have already been asked but the answers have been inconclusive. What is the best accounting software on the market? I would like to provide bookkeeping services, and have been looking at many different softwares. I have to make a decision as to which on I'm going to learn. I heard about, Quickbooks, MYOB, Sage, Kashflow etc.

The cheapest seems to be Quickbooks and MYOB. Sage is very expensive for multi company use and Kashflow is also quite expensive. On the other hand I've heard alot of bad feedback on Quickbooks 2008 and MYOB has now been taken over by Mamut, so its market is uncertain.

Any ideas?

[billie1]

I spoke to the bookkeeping department and they quoted

[billie1]

I spoke to the bookkeeping department and they quoted me £700 per annum which is alot more than quickbooks which costs £450 for premier version if you buy it outright and £299 for Pro if you buy it outright

[DuaneJackson]

Hi Billie,

I don't know about the others, but with KashFlow you get more than just the software. Did you speak to one of the Partner salespeople or did you just ask the person who answered the phone what the cost would be?

If you're looking for the cheapest option, it's probably not us. But if you're looking for the best then it probably is (http://www.kashflow.co.uk/pressrelease_0040.asp).

[Jenni384]

If you think that Kashflow is quite expensive then you must be misinformed about the price!
I disagree - KashFlow is expensive: contrast the monthly fee, for a one-off fee for something like Solar Accounts, Sage Instant or QB Simplestart which will last a good few years.
However that's not comparing like with like. Kashflow offers a lot and you do get excellent value for money. But I would still describe it as fairly expensive (sorry Duane!)

I'm going to mention Solar (http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk) again - download the free trial and see what you think. I love it.

I wouldn't touch the new version of QB (I run QB2005 and love it), I don't know MYOB, Sage is expensive (and you either love it or hate it).

Kashflow would be my online solution of choice if you chose to go that way - remember it's also going to be up to your client whether they want to pay monthly for software too. Others to choose from are products like Xero, E-conomic and... urm... I can't think of any others but there a few.

As Nicola says, VT is excellent too.

Good luck :)

[Fernhurst Solutions Ltd]

Not like Jenni to run out of advice ;) ..... so another on-line solution could be Liquid Accounts (http://www.liquidaccounts.net/website/)

[DuaneJackson]

No need to apologise, Jenni. I'd rather that than be called cheap!

As you say, it's not comparing like for like. Most of our KashFlow Partners make money by being a partner. Hence the surprised comment from DFL I guess.

[Wild Goose]

I have had some fantastic feedback from clients I have shown VT.

Nicola, do you know anything of VT's plans to make their free beta downloadable a chargeable service from September next year (or thereabouts)?


Quickbooks used to be my prefered option for larger clients but having seen a few clients VAT being totally messed up by updates I am a bit relunctant to now recommend and use it.
We got pushed, nay bullied - well sort of mentally onsloughted - into snortin' QB for one or two Inner City American take-ups ("gee, it's number one in the States"). And they told their friends.
QB is bad for your health. Do not inhale.


Sage...I'll politely say is not my cup of tea.
Hmmm I guess that'd be because you prefer a non-singin' non-dancin' cup of tea. I was smitten with TAS until Auntie Sage bought it.


I disagree - KashFlow is expensive: contrast the monthly fee, for a one-off fee for something like Solar Accounts, Sage Instant or QB Simplestart which will last a good few years.
However that's not comparing like with like. Kashflow offers a lot and you do get excellent value for money. But I would still describe it as fairly expensive (sorry Duane!)
Hmm that'd be the rather prohibitive £700 specially priced for beannies joining fee. Jenni, how about getting clients to join Kashflow directly on their own account? Duane, how about a little leeway here - there's a recession on for chrissakes and £700 could go a long way towards a tank of petrol.


I wouldn't touch the new version of QB (I run QB2005 and love it), I don't know MYOB, Sage is expensive (and you either love it or hate it).
Grrrrr!


Kashflow would be my online solution of choice...
Mine too, if only I could afford the £700 entrance fee! Seriously Duane, that's a big entrance fee if you're a trade customer. I'm on the opposite tack to you by gifting free accounts to our bookkeeping clients (conversely Kashflow allows accountants to offer free bookkeeping to their accounts clients, dear reader), so, as much as I like Kashflow's simplicity (think "I-pod", reader - Kashflow's user friendly), it simply doesn't fit our pricing model. C'mon Duane, freebies and tempting offers are needed! Wife, six expensive cars and two children to run!! Hang on, my dyslexia's kicked in!

btw don't tell Ling about the free accounts or she'll get the OFT on to us - apparently free accounts are anti-competitive! Ouch!

[oldeagleeye]

The following might interest the OP

http://launchlab.co.uk/article/Starters-for-ten/Duane-Jackson,-founder,-KashFlow/583

[MyAccountantOnline]

Nicola, do you know anything of VT's plans to make their free beta downloadable a chargeable service from September next year (or thereabouts)?

My understanding is that the basic cashbook product will still remain free though which is actually very good for some very small businesses.

I honestly wouldnt expect VT's free software to last forever!

I should add I have no connection to VT apart from being a very happy user of the current free product.

I am not in any way criticising packages where a user pays monthly such as Kashflow, far from it, but many clients seem to resent a monthly payment for software. I think when people say expensive thats sometimes what they mean - they dont look long term. The younger more entrepenerial business owners will but you still have alot of businesses that are run in a very traditional manner.

[Jenni384]

Hmm that'd be the rather prohibitive £700 specially priced for beannies joining fee. Jenni, how about getting clients to join Kashflow directly on their own account? Duane, how about a little leeway here - there's a recession on for chrissakes and £700 could go a long way towards a tank of petrol.


:)
I wasn't even thinking about the partner fee, to be honest (which is £919 a year - we aren't VAT reg here at FF), simply the £15.99 a month.

I keep suggesting KF to my clients (on their own account), with the view that if enough are interested, I would consider joining the partner programme. So far I have zero clients using KF, and that's not through lack of trying!
Therefore there is no point in us becoming a partner firm at this stage.

[Alpha]

It s really just a case of utilising what works for an individuals practice.

We don't have a problem with £700 per se (We pay nearly £2000 for Sage) and we give it to clients FOC as it is far better than having half completed spreadsheets, unanalysed analysis books and paper bags full of receipts.
Being online means that we can look in on clients record keeping to see how they are doing, make agreed changes if neccessary and generally be more in control.

I know it would be far better to make sure the client received training on their chosen method but often the type of clients that use spreadsheets and manual analysis are those that wouldn't pay for it anyway:)

[Jenni384]

I know it would be far better to make sure the client received training on their chosen method but often the type of clients that use spreadsheets and manual analysis are those that wouldn't pay for it anyway:)

Ain't that the truth!! :rolleyes:

[Wild Goose]

Nicola, do you know anything of VT's plans to make their free beta downloadable a chargeable service from September next year (or thereabouts)?

My understanding is that the basic cashbook product will still remain free though which is actually very good for some very small businesses.

I honestly wouldnt expect VT's free software to last forever!


Hello Nicola,

Here's where I think there might be a time-bomb due to go off 31st October (not September) next year for those using the free VT cash book:

The free download of VT cashbook is at
http://www.vtsoftware.co.uk/cashbook/index.htm
The first "click here" button on that page gets you the download; click it and you'll see the download is named TransplusSetup.exe and the file size is 13.5mb. There's no mention of any time use restrictions for this free version, although we are told that "VT Cash Book and VT Transaction+ are always installed together, but you do not need to enter a license key to use VT Cash Book". I see, so the download TransplusSetup contains VT Cash Book and VT Transaction - they seem to be integrated - but we're only going to activate VT Cash Book because that's the free part ( VT Transaction+ being a pay service)..

All of which would be fine, except for a worrying statement on http://www.vtsoftware.co.uk/tranplus/index.htm which is a different page from which the free software is downloadable. We are instructed to "Click here to download and install VT Transaction+ 2009 and VT Cash Book 2009. Notice that gets you the same download as the link from the page I mentioned previously in the paragraph above (TransplusSetup.exe 13.5mb). The worrying statement? "To continue using the software after 31 October 2009 you will need to enter a license key". Ouch, I wonder how much a license key will cost?

I cannot imagine that VT mean you will need a license key for VT Transaction+ 2009 in October of next year - the site appears to indicate that you'd need tp buy a license key from the off for that. So I conclude that VT can only mean that you will need a license key next October for the "free" VT Cash Book 2009.

What do you think Nicola?

I suppose in a sense you have the same situation with any software provider - anyone can hike their prices once they have a captive audience. But if it is the case that VT are planning on introducing charges for what has been distributed as free software you have apparently been warned - at least if you downloaded from their second page (but not if you downloaded from their first page). Time-bomb or not?

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hello Nicola,


What do you think Nicola?

I suppose in a sense you have the same situation with any software provider - anyone can hike their prices once they have a captive audience. But if it is the case that VT are planning on introducing charges for what has been distributed as free software you have apparently been warned - at least if you downloaded from their second page (but not if you downloaded from their first page). Time-bomb or not?


In all honesty I wouldnt expect VT to continue giving out a free bit of software for ever and I think most users would appreciate that.

I think most satisfied users will gladly pay for this software when the time comes unless they set a a ridiculous price.

[billie1]

Jenni, what don't you like about quickbooks 2008? I was told the problem with it was transfering 2005 data. I was told as a new user I wouldn't face any problems with it. Is their any truth to that?

[DuaneJackson]

Stop underpricing our Partner Programme software! It's £799 a year, not £700 or £699. Pricing here (http://www.partners.kashflow.co.uk/pricing.asp).

However that's not comparing like with like. Kashflow offers a lot and you do get excellent value for money. But I would still describe it as fairly expensive (sorry Duane!)
...
Kashflow would be my online solution of choice if you chose to go that way - remember it's also going to be up to your client whether they want to pay monthly for software too.

Just to clarify, there are no monthly fees for you or for your clients via the Partner Programme.

For each client you have using the software you pay us £49 a year (although first year is effectively 14 months as your client can use it for free for 60 days before you/he commit to a full year). If the client came to use directly then they'd pay £15.99 a month - equiv to £191.88 a year.


Jenni, how about getting clients to join Kashflow directly on their own account?


We do have Partners that start out that way. But assuming you have more than 5 clients doing it that way, then you're losing out financially.

15.99 x 12 x 6 = £1151.28
799 + 1 free license + 5 x 49 = £1044

So that's £107.28 a year in my pocket instead of yours or your clients. Add a further £142.88 a year for each client you have over 6.

That's before even factoring in the huge time saving that the Partner software will create for you (I assume you're all aware of what it can do for you rather than just looking at the £799 being a straight forward fee to be able to resell our software?)

See the Tax Assist London case study here (http://www.partners.kashflow.co.uk/casestudies.asp) for an example of someone with an nice incidental revenue stream from their KashFlow Partner Programme membership.

Duane, how about a little leeway here - there's a recession on for chrissakes and £700 could go a long way towards a tank of petrol.


Grrrrr!


Mine too, if only I could afford the £700 entrance fee! Seriously Duane, that's a big entrance fee if you're a trade customer. I'm on the opposite tack to you by gifting free accounts to our bookkeeping clients (conversely Kashflow allows accountants to offer free bookkeeping to their accounts clients, dear reader), so, as much as I like Kashflow's simplicity (think "I-pod", reader - Kashflow's user friendly), it simply doesn't fit our pricing model. C'mon Duane, freebies and tempting offers are needed! Wife, six expensive cars and two children to run!! Hang on, my dyslexia's kicked in!


Look at it from my point of view though, or if you were my accountant and advising me.

We're still on a nice upwards trajectory on our Partner Programme sales. If I start giving away freebies then how do I incentivise (oe even pay!) my salespeople and how do I explain to the Chairman that no, we had no problems selling it at £799 but yes, I've started giving it away for free.

January is always interesting for us. If your SA103s are all done because you've been able to see your clients keep on top of the books all year and chase them up if they slack, then odds are you're a KashFlow Partner already. Most other accountants are too busy to take sales calls from us.

I do hear what you're saying though. I'll have a play with some numbers and see what I can do in terms of an offer for January. But it will be time limited and it will be UKBF only.

[Jenni384]

Jenni, what don't you like about quickbooks 2008? I was told the problem with it was transfering 2005 data. I was told as a new user I wouldn't face any problems with it. Is their any truth to that?
I've not used it. I've just read too many bad things about it.
I also don't like their new product and pricing structure.

[Philip Hoyle]

I suppose in a sense you have the same situation with any software provider - anyone can hike their prices once they have a captive audience. But if it is the case that VT are planning on introducing charges for what has been distributed as free software you have apparently been warned - at least if you downloaded from their second page (but not if you downloaded from their first page). Time-bomb or not?

I recommend VT to clients, not because it is currently free, but because it is good. The old version of VT transaction was very competitively priced, as is VT accounts. I know that VT will start charging for VT transaction again once the final version is up and running and my clients know that, but if it is anything like their old VT transaction programme, I think it is about £100 as a one off purchase fee, so it is still good value if you have to pay for it. I've been using VT accounts for several years and they havn't imposed silly price increases on that, despite it doing well in surveys, etc. Unless VT make the same mistake as other firms and sell out to one of the big firms, I for one am confident that they won't "screw" their customers - some firms do still have some integrity! I hope I'm right with VT!

[Jenni384]

We do have Partners that start out that way. But assuming you have more than 5 clients doing it that way, then you're losing out financially.

15.99 x 12 x 6 = £1151.28
799 + 1 free license + 5 x 49 = £1044

So that's £107.28 a year in my pocket instead of yours or your clients. Add a further £142.88 a year for each client you have over 6.

That's before even factoring in the huge time saving that the Partner software will create for you (I assume you're all aware of what it can do for you rather than just looking at the £799 being a straight forward fee to be able to resell our software?)

Thanks Duane :)
Yes, I do see the logic! I just feel like we need to have at least a few clients who have tried it and like it, before we go for it :D
We have a policy of not forcing clients to use software they don't like or can't get on with (which is more of a 'we won't force you to use Sage' policy, I realise the majority of users love KF ;) ) so it would be a bit of a new direction to go the KF route. However what with new developments here it's something we do need to discuss and consider.

[DuaneJackson]

We have a policy of not forcing clients to use software they don't like or can't get on with (which is more of a 'we won't force you to use Sage' policy, I realise the majority of users love KF ;) ) so it would be a bit of a new direction to go the KF route. However what with new developments here it's something we do need to discuss and consider.

We'd never want you to force clients to use KF. Just let them try it and make sure they know we're here with Free UK-based support 24/7 if they need any help with it.

Obviously it's in our interests to sell you as many client licenses as possible. So we have lots of tools to make it easy for your clients to register for a trial account attached to your partner programme with minimal effort for you.

[billie1]

Need some answers? What is the real problem with quickbooks 2008? Will a new user experience the same problems as a user transfering data from one version to the next?

[DuaneJackson]

Need some answers? What is the real problem with quickbooks 2008? Will a new user experience the same problems as a user transfering data from one version to the next?


Hi billie.

If the problem is with transferring data, then a new user would have no data to transfer so wouldn't suffer the same problems.

QB is a well established product. I know the 2008 version has some problems (they broke multicurrency support) but it's still happily used by lots of people.

You'll need to suck it and see. Noone will be able to give you the answers you need. There is no "best" product. It's all subjective.

[MyAccountantOnline]

Need some answers? What is the real problem with quickbooks 2008? Will a new user experience the same problems as a user transfering data from one version to the next?


I have QB 2008 Pro and I dont think their is a problem with that.

I understand problems have occurred when people have run automatic updates from older versions.

The messes I have seen with peoples VAT has just put me off.

[DuaneJackson]

Here we go then, a very special offer for UKBF accountants (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=89566).

I hope it helps entice you onboard, or atleast to take a closer look at it.

[YODspica]

Here we go then, a very special offer for UKBF accountants (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=89566).

I hope it helps entice you onboard, or atleast to take a closer look at it.

Special offer £599. on the official kashflow website the normal price is £189 with 60 days free.

Thanks for the offer :eek:.

[DuaneJackson]

Special offer £599. on the official kashflow website the normal price is £189 with 60 days free.

Thanks for the offer :eek:.

So one of the following must be the case:

a) you've made a mistake and are looking at a different one of our products
or
b) I'm a rip-off merchant taking all the accountants here for mugs.

[KM-Tiger]

I'm a rip-off merchant taking all the accountants here for mugs.

Trying for a nomination for "Best of UKBF"?

[Philip Hoyle]

Need some answers? What is the real problem with quickbooks 2008? Will a new user experience the same problems as a user transfering data from one version to the next?

There is a problem with its algorithm if you have more than one analysis line on a payment or invoice. In the old versions, you could enter VAT on a line-by-line basis for each line of analysis. In 2008, it works out VAT on a total invoice basis, so you end up in a loop with it constantly changing both the VAT total and for some bizaar reason the net value of the first analysis line. QB support know about this and keep trying to tell me it is right and that it isn't a problem. So if you anticipate entering having payments or invoices with several different analysis lines, some vatable, some not, you're going to have problems using QB 2008 - the best you can do is enter such items as separate payments/invoices.

[MyAccountantOnline]

In case anyones interested I emailed VT to ask about pricing, and how long the Cash book package would be free - here's the reply. (I did ask VT if they were happy for me to copy this on here first!)

VT Cash book will remain as a free download permanently. VT Transaction+ which is now available for sale, although the free download will continue to work until October 2009, is priced at £125+vat.

Regards
Victoria Frazer
VT Software Limited

[Philip Hoyle]

Here we go then, a very special offer for UKBF accountants (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=89566).

I hope it helps entice you onboard, or atleast to take a closer look at it.

Duane, I'm sure that many people who are already KF accountants won't be too impressed to find out they've got a worse deal by not haggling on a public forum, and may feel a bit ripped off that others can join for less than they paid. I don't think you're doing your reputation any good by this kind of thing. I don't see a problem with a one-off "sale", but in your case, you're offering long term changes, i.e. number of client licences, that seem to be permanent, not just a one-off, no doubt the same with your annual fee for membership. You need to be wary of creating a "two tier" membership where some are forever paying more or less than others for the same service.

[wood1e2]

HAs anyone mentioned Access Accounting?

Quickbooks is brilliant if you like to be able to delete everything you have done wrong.

Which can help when people have made some mistakes, although the audit trail was a nightmate.

Sage use to get me depressed with it's refusal to do previous year/current year P&L...this may have changed, they may have improved the CSV export to not include all the rubbish like the reference numbers...

Have you tried MS Excel or OO Calc, one sheet for all your ins and one sheet for all your outs...one minus the other equals profit.

Obviously your business may be two large for that simplistic approach.

Just as a side issue, I spoke to an accountant recently and they do not include T accounts in training these days... No wonder so many mistakes are still made even when using software. :)

[DuaneJackson]

Duane, I'm sure that many people who are already KF accountants won't be too impressed to find out they've got a worse deal by not haggling on a public forum,

...

I don't see a problem with a one-off "sale", but in your case, you're offering long term changes, i.e. number of client licences, that seem to be permanent, not just a one-off, no doubt the same with your annual fee for membership.

Hi Philip,

This was something I discussed with Michelle (our head sales person) as she had the same concerns as you.

The offer for the additional client licenses is first year only, as it says on the offer, not indefinite. Although the the discount on the annual fee would be ongoing. We've always promised that you stick with whatever price you sign up at.

I'd probably be happy to reduce everyones annual fee to the offer price if they're also happy to have their price increased when we increase the price in the future.

It is a one-off sale. I bought a sofa recently at a price I was happy to pay. The next week I saw it advertised on TV with 40% off. Annoying yes as I should have perhaps held out and bought it at the lower price. But I was happy to pay what I did for it so wasn't a problem.

The way I see it is that sales liek these are just a fact of life and hopeully wont upset too many existing customers.

[DuaneJackson]

HAs anyone mentioned Access Accounting?


I thought they were more mid-range and enterprise. Do they have an offering suitable for SMEs?

[MarkHallett]

Access Accounting - Great Mid tier accounting software. Not really for small businesses....

[Wild Goose]

In case anyones interested I emailed VT to ask about pricing, and how long the Cash book package would be free - here's the reply. (I did ask VT if they were happy for me to copy this on here first!)

VT Cash book will remain as a free download permanently. VT Transaction+ which is now available for sale, although the free download will continue to work until October 2009, is priced at £125+vat.

Regards
Victoria Frazer
VT Software Limited

Wow! Wonderful! Well done Nicola. Just goes to show you can look at a thing too hard. :redface:

VT Cash book permanently free? That's solved a big problem with yours truly's clients who'd been promised free Kashflow programs in their stockings. And I guess it'll dovetail with VT accounts. Yee-hah!

Ahem... thank you Nicola. Your finders' fee is in the post :)

[Wild Goose]

Stop underpricing our Partner Programme software! It's £799 a year, not £700 or £699. Pricing here (http://www.partners.kashflow.co.uk/pricing.asp).


Sorry Duane, £799 a year it is. I'll tell Ling - she's just set up an accountancy practice to become Accountingweb's newest member. Maybe you should ask Michelle to give her a sales call if she has a few hours to spare. :)

I guess what you're describing is a tier marketing sales strategy? Kashflow and Sofa. People here should probably recognise that and be in sympathy with it - we charge some people £2,000 for their accounts and others get theirs for free. That's just the way the world spins.;)

[billie1]

Being that most people were happy with Quickbooks 2006, if I were to purchase this version would I eventually have to upgrade to newer version or can I stick to 2006 for as long as I like.

[YODspica]

So one of the following must be the case:

a) you've made a mistake and are looking at a different one of our products
or
b) I'm a rip-off merchant taking all the accountants here for mugs.

most probably a), nevertheless anything above zero is expensive :D.

[Wild Goose]

So one of the following must be the case:

a) you've made a mistake and are looking at a different one of our products
or
b) I'm a rip-off merchant taking all the accountants here for mugs.

I failed English A-level because I couldn't tell one case from another.

Why can't we have an option c) Duane? Why's it gotta be that black'n white?

[DFL]

Never mind all that, what I need to know is what colour was the sofa?

[Wild Goose]

Never mind all that, what I need to know is what colour was the sofa?:rolleyes:

I'd too am longing to know the colour scheme at Chez Jackson.

Was it knock-off?

[DuaneJackson]

It was brown. One of them ones with the built-in recliner thingies. They look good and are bloody comfortable when reclined, but uncomfortable in any other position. You can't even sit with your legs up on the sofa very comfortably because of the bulges in the leather between the seats.

A knock-off? How very dare you!

[Alpha]

[quote]Sorry Duane, £799 a year it is. I'll tell Ling - she's just set up an accountancy practice to become Accountingweb's newest member.And given her first attempt she will not be getting any clients :D

Maybe you should ask Michelle to give her a sales call if she has a few hours to spare. Don't think Michelle would stand her hours of telling her how software should work and the debit must be on the window side............oh and then go to Sage for a 20th opinion and still disagree with them :D:D

Edit

WG You've been waiting for this so I didn't want to disappoint!!

[Jenni384]

I'll tell Ling - she's just set up an accountancy practice to become Accountingweb's newest member.

Link please? I've not seen it....
WG you'd better buy a partner licence now since you asked and it was given!! ;)

[Alpha]

Link please? I've not seen it....


He's referring to this embarrasing debacle.

http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=192056&d=1031&h=1028&f=1026 :D

[DuaneJackson]

LMAO, First time I've seen that : )

[Wild Goose]

It was brown. One of them ones with the built-in recliner thingies. They look good and are bloody comfortable when reclined, but uncomfortable in any other position. You can't even sit with your legs up on the sofa very comfortably because of the bulges in the leather between the seats.

MFI then. No wonder they went bust. Invite your accountant around - he'll soon flatten out the bulges! :D


Link please? I've not seen it....
WG you'd better buy a partner licence now since you asked and it was given!! ;)

You'll enjoy the A-web link Jenni. I've seen Rebecca Bennyworth live for cpd and never seen her flap like this. Ling's got her shaking her stick. Great fun.

I'm waiting for the January sale before I think about a partner licence. Duane told me there's a buy one get one free offer - BOGOF he told me.

[Wild Goose]

[quote=Wild Goose;704681]And given her first attempt she will not be getting any clients :D

WG You've been waiting for this so I didn't want to disappoint!!

Good on you Alan.

It rather highlights the fact that anyone can enter the accountancy profession - no quals or experience needed. Just turn up with your boots and you'll get a game.

To be fair to Ling she sticks to her guns, no matter what. Duane should think about recruiting her to his sales team ;)

[DuaneJackson]

To be fair to Ling she sticks to her guns, no matter what. Duane should think about recruiting her to his sales team ;)

I will. When I set up a double glazing firm.

[Alpha]

[quote=Alpha;704859]

To be fair to Ling she sticks to her guns, no matter what.

Unfortunately that isn't a strength its a substantial weakness and coupled with a lack of humility will not help in business one bit. It starts as being amusing but rapidly turns to making sure that no one gives any credibility to anything she says.:)

[oldeagleeye]

Am I right in assuming that all this accounting software is provided to small businesses by accountants so that they can do their own accounts and all that's left at the end of the year for you accountants to do is file them.

Blimey no wonder you got time to laze about on recliners and who cares about how much the leather costs when your pulling in an average £800 quid for bunging the client a £100 quids worth of software.http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

HOT WEEKEND NEWS.

Viking Direct are offering a years free subscription to WinWeb worth circa £120 with orders over £30 quid.

Businessmade simple group offer Mamut free just for signing to the newsletter.

OH NO. Ling has just joined the Save the Cow league and was seen attacking a woman in Gateshead wearing a leather coat with her new plastic handbag.

I would edit that post Duuane and put Faux sofa or duck for cover if I were you.http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Jenni384]

You know what? It's the weekend, and I'm going out... toodleoo! :D

[billie1]

If I purchased Quickbooks 2006, would I eventually have to upgrade or can I use it for as long as I want.

[DuaneJackson]

Am I right in assuming that all this accounting software is provided to small businesses by accountants so that they can do their own accounts and all that's left at the end of the year for you accountants to do is file them.

Blimey no wonder you got time to laze about on recliners and who cares about how much the leather costs when your pulling in an average £800 quid for bunging the client a £100 quids worth of software.http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif


Nope, you're wrong in assuming that. Do you really think the 100's of accountants on our Partner Programme are stupid enough to pay my company £800 for £100 worth of software? That's insulting to 80% of the accountants on this forum.

I know you're a bit bitter because I gave you a strike on another thread. But if my business could be torn apart that easily and there was no value in what we sell then don't you think I'd have been exposed a long time ago?

[DFL]

Am I right in assuming that all this accounting software is provided to small businesses by accountants so that they can do their own accounts and all that's left at the end of the year for you accountants to do is file them.


No you are not right. The software is provided by accountants to small businesses so that:

- The bookkeeping is done to a good standard and can be checked;
- Clients can do their own reports at the click of a button;
- Real time information and advice can be given rather than retrospectively;
- Fees are lower due for clients due to better records kept;
- Increased value given to clients due to time saved at year end.

Note that this does not mean it is just a case of filing accounts at year end, rather a better starting point is obtained.

As with all business relationships, nothing works unless mutually beneficial. Kashflow win due to the fees paid by accountants, accountants win due to the above, clients win as they are more in control with software designed for them to use.

With regard to earlier claims that it is expensive, I fail to see it. Comparisons made are not like for like and at the current cost, with the features given, the capability, the upgrades and the support I think that it is good value for money.

There are always cheaper options in price terms but if you factor in the whole picture then a lot of the cheaper options work out more expensive in the long term, even if not just on monetory terms - depends how you value your time.

[Wild Goose]

OH NO. Ling has just joined the Save the Cow league and was seen attacking a woman in Gateshead wearing a leather coat with her new plastic handbag.



Ling was wearing a leather coat?

Was the woman Rebecca Bennyworth?
(that's an in joke for A-web members)

[Wild Goose]

Nope, you're wrong in assuming that. Do you really think the 100's of accountants on our Partner Programme are stupid enough to pay my company £800 for £100 worth of software? You mean £799 Duane ;)


That's insulting to 80% of the accountants on this forum.

Why only 80%? Are the other 20% thicker-skinned? :)

[DuaneJackson]

Nope. £800 but we give you a free pound coin : )

80% because only about 80%of the accountants here are members of our Partner Programme.

[Wild Goose]

Nope. £800 but we give you a free pound coin : )
Bejesus! Don't say that in front of Ling! :D

80% because only about 80%of the accountants here are members of our Partner Programme.
The rest of us are still playing hard to get. Paretto principle. 80/20 ;)

[DFL]

Edited - before anyone viewed - nothing to see here!

[DuaneJackson]

Nope. Pareto!

[Wild Goose]

Nope. Pareto!

Ouch! touché

I got confused with cornetto

[DuaneJackson]

Edited - before anyone viewed - nothing to see here!
LOL, nice one : )

[billie1]

I started this thread to get some answers. Can everyone stop ignoring me. I want to find out how long you can use the Quickbook software before update i.e if I purchased the 2006 version would I eventually have to update. Someone suggested on another thread only if I had payroll I would. Do you know the answer?

[DuaneJackson]

The best thing to to would be contact Intuit and ask them.

[Fernhurst Solutions Ltd]

I started this thread to get some answers. Can everyone stop ignoring me. I want to find out how long you can use the Quickbook software before update i.e if I purchased the 2006 version would I eventually have to update. Someone suggested on another thread only if I had payroll I would. Do you know the answer?

You could always try the Quickbooks forum, or even better pick up the phone and contact Quickbooks ..... :rolleyes:

[MyAccountantOnline]

I started this thread to get some answers. Can everyone stop ignoring me. I want to find out how long you can use the Quickbook software before update i.e if I purchased the 2006 version would I eventually have to update. Someone suggested on another thread only if I had payroll I would. Do you know the answer?


You can carry on using the software for as long as you want BUT if you get any problems once the software is unsupported by QB you are on your own. QB tend to support software for several years but ask them to confirm as has been suggested if you want to be sure.

So in theory you could use it indefinately - I wouldnt advise it, but it is possible. I had a client come to me using a version of QB I had never even heard of it still worked...just.

IF you have payroll you will have to update atleast each year to have the new tax rates /allowances.

My advice dont waste your time learning and using old software its shortsighted money saving. I say that as an independent accountant who has seen people waste time and money with inappropriate software, not one trying to sell you software.

What do you want from your accounting software? If you could detail this we can all offer some suitable suggestions.

[Delta-SI]

This is Jenni@FarrantFrost (being too lazy to relog, sorry)

I run QB2005 and I got a letter earlier this year to say its unsupported, therefore QB2006 will be next if its not already.

Intuit will strongly dissuade you from getting an older unsupported version.
As Nicola said, you can continue to run it - I've seen ancient versions of QB and Sage being run successfully. However if it goes wrong you're on your own.

HTH :)

Jenni

[KM-Tiger]

FWIW: I use an old (unsupported) version of TASBooks. Unlike earlier versions where I found a few ways to crash it and corrupt the database, that particular version is *very* stable, and not likely to go wrong. Lacks a few bells and whistles of later versions, but suits my needs.

However I do understand the risk that I am taking, but happy to do that until such time as I can replace it with Open Source.

But I would not recommend that course of action for most businesses, unless the volume of transactions is very small, and re-entering all from scratch could be done without pain.

One huge advantage of SAAS (eg Kashflow) is that the question of which version, do I need/want to pay to upgrade, does not arise. You just pay your (modest) subscription and it's always up to date, and always will be.

[DFL]

I started this thread to get some answers. Can everyone stop ignoring me. I want to find out how long you can use the Quickbook software before update i.e if I purchased the 2006 version would I eventually have to update. Someone suggested on another thread only if I had payroll I would. Do you know the answer?

You've got some front.

Your original question contained no basic courtesy, no please or thank you, you have not bothered to thank those that have given you detailed answers and then complain you are being ignored (again with no manners)

:mad:

[markmclaren]

I probably shouldn't say this (since our software is one of the 'cheaper' ones) but I agree with others that the cost is more than just the amount you pay.

Your time is valuable, so you should consider how easy it is to learn and use. Check out Solar Accounts (http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk) and our testimonials (http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/testimonials.php). We often get people telling us they have bought our software after paying for other accounting software packages - here's an example (http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/forum/topic.php?TopicId=106&Posts=1).

[Wild Goose]

I probably shouldn't say this (since our software is one of the 'cheaper' ones) but I agree with others that the cost is more than just the amount you pay.

Your time is valuable, so you should consider how easy it is to learn and use. Check out Solar Accounts (http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk) and our testimonials (http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/testimonials.php). We often get people telling us they have bought our software after paying for other accounting software packages - here's an example (http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/forum/topic.php?TopicId=106&Posts=1).

Hello Mark,

Is the cost £99 or £99 per year. If the latter, does that include support? (As you can probably tell, we've been shafted in the past as Sage agents)

Would the three user licence apply to a peer to peer network (as opposed to the standard client-server setup)? Program for each station, as opposed to one multi-access program on a single network computer?

We've been looking at e-conomic, and would ideally like an SaS online product. But Solar might work for us if it were multi-access and/or multi-user. Is it either/both?

Cheers

[markmclaren]

Hello Mark,

Is the cost £99 or £99 per year. If the latter, does that include support? (As you can probably tell, we've been shafted in the past as Sage agents)

Would the three user licence apply to a peer to peer network (as opposed to the standard client-server setup)? Program for each station, as opposed to one multi-access program on a single network computer?

We've been looking at e-conomic, and would ideally like an SaS online product. But Solar might work for us if it were multi-access and/or multi-user. Is it either/both?

Cheers

Hi Wild Goose,

It's a one-off charge of £99 - there are no ongoing fees.

Solar Accounts is a stand-alone program, i.e. no client-server configuration. The best way for multiple users to access the data is to install Solar Accounts on several machines and put the data file on a network drive. However, only one user can access the file at a time.

Regards,

Mark

[oldeagleeye]

I have just downloaded a trial of Solar following Jennies earlier comments and I think it is great. A nice intuitive interface. It is extremely easy to add a logo to create a personalised invoice and it is simple to use from day 1 when I have found many accountancy programs have too many bells and whistles.

Not for every business such as those with a lot of employees but for a small business a great piece of kit. Rob

[DuaneJackson]

For locally installed accounting software, you can't go wrong with Solar. It's what we now recommend to people who realise KashFlow is web-based and insist on something locally installed. (We used to suggest Accountz, but people have come back to us saying it's too fiddly)

[oldeagleeye]

I know I made a joke earlier about accountants providing software be it on-line or otherwise - and then whacking on a huge margin. Let me make it quite clear then that it was a joke and I for one have never used an accountant in my 40 years in business just for their number ticking skills.

It has been for the advice that they have given and the expertise in knowing what legitimate tax efficient measures are out there which save you money - even after the fees are paid. There is also the piece of mind in knowing that once accounts have been agreed by HMRC with a qualified ccountant each years accounts are done and dusted where those that try to DIY and come unstuck can expect a lengthy investigation going back 5 years.

Lets remember then that software is just a tool to help reduce paperwork and keep the costs down. It is no substitute for an accountant. Rob

[Wild Goose]

Blimey Rob, where did that come from?

Have you been ordered to retract or apolgise for some earlier statement, of have you been breaking out the sherry before noon? :rolleyes:

[MyAccountantOnline]

I probably shouldn't say this (since our software is one of the 'cheaper' ones) but I agree with others that the cost is more than just the amount you pay.

Your time is valuable, so you should consider how easy it is to learn and use. Check out Solar Accounts (http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk) and our testimonials (http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/testimonials.php). We often get people telling us they have bought our software after paying for other accounting software packages - here's an example (http://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/forum/topic.php?TopicId=106&Posts=1).


Mark - I just had a really quick look at your software and it looks very user friendly. I like the layout a lot -I think many small businesses will like it.

Do you produce a summary of the features of your package that readily compares your products features with your competitors? Apologies if its on the website I only had a quick look:)

[AlanR]

For locally installed accounting software, you can't go wrong with Solar. It's what we now recommend to people who realise KashFlow is web-based and insist on something locally installed. (We used to suggest Accountz, but people have come back to us saying it's too fiddly)

After (attempting) to use MS Accounting, i was recommended Accountz (not by you Duane :)) and found it very fiddly and tempermental but decided to soldier on. After about 6 months i thought there must be an easier / more intuitive software package available.

Found Solar Accounts and have not looked back. So much easier and quicker to use and i feel much more confident with the output. A user definable Invoice template would be nice but apart from that, i cant fault it for my 1 man Ltd Co and i would recommend it.

Regards

Alan

[Chris Ashdown]

Two points

Sage (which we use) is probably to largest software package around and run by most accounting firms, Good history, Not to hard to learn but maybe harder than most, One benifit is that they brought out Protx payment service provider and totaly own it so new software will work verry well with protx which is a big star for online traders

Misrosoft has recently entered the market so their new software will challenge all the others and most likely on past experience offer a verry compeditive product at a great price, trial software can be downloaded.

Can you ever take the risk with the small companies, a lot were profitable before the summer but might look a bit weak now, they are not imune from folding up and may not have the breath of applications to see them through these hard times, so I suggest play it safe with just the major players and look to the future rather than just the short term investment

[GaryMc]

Trouble is Chris you started well but then from word three it went downhill :)

Sage are known as being a big market leader (in terms of numbers) but their development effort is not the best.

Its dominance will be challenged over the next 5 years by the mass of user focused offerings that are appearing.

We are moving away from a one size fits all approach to more tailored approaches to software that people can pick up and use if it suits them or leave alone if it doesn't. Look at something like FreeAgent Central as an example of this http://www.freeagentcentral.com/

Every company was a small company once - you might find that the 'risk' pays off in the long term

[MyAccountantOnline]

Two points

Sage (which we use) is probably to largest software package around and run by most accounting firms, Good history, Not to hard to learn but maybe harder than most, One benifit is that they brought out Protx payment service provider and totaly own it so new software will work verry well with protx which is a big star for online traders

Misrosoft has recently entered the market so their new software will challenge all the others and most likely on past experience offer a verry compeditive product at a great price, trial software can be downloaded.

Can you ever take the risk with the small companies, a lot were profitable before the summer but might look a bit weak now, they are not imune from folding up and may not have the breath of applications to see them through these hard times, so I suggest play it safe with just the major players and look to the future rather than just the short term investment


Sage is a good product, I'm truly not knocking it at all, but many small business owners really dislike it and find it very, very hard to use.

Sage used to be heavily sold by accountants but this isnt the case anymore.

I actually gain a lot of clients who come to me because they dont HAVE to use Sage, and I show them other products many of which they find much easier to use.

I think that their is plenty of scope for good alternatives to Sage and good products will do well. I welcome alternatives to Sage.

[dp0848]

We are big fans of Solar Accounts here at Farrant Frost. Simple to use, good basic reports and good value for money. We would recommend it to small limited companies and sole traders.

David.

[garyk]

Sage are known as being a big market leader (in terms of numbers) but their development effort is not the best.

Its dominance will be challenged over the next 5 years by the mass of user focused offerings that are appearing.

Yes the trouble with that is that it just leads to greater fragmentation of the market with more vendors, more offerings, and for the poor prospects, more confusing choices! Thats what has happened with the CRM market, its much more fragmented than the financials software market with hundreds of offerings but still a challenge for business owners to find something that suits their needs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying for one minute Sage's dominance is a good thing and to be honest Gary I would agree with your sentiments to some degree. That said I dont know if you know the latest regarding a software as a service model from Sage (the news broken early by Duane from Kashflow) so they havent been resting on their laurels despite common belief they were. Of course Sage are also one of the few vendors to have products for the entire business spectrum from startups using Instant to companies turning over in excess of £100 million using Sage 1000.

For me the whole point of accounting software is it needs to enhance your business process, not hinder it. For small businesses speed of entry of quotes/orders/invoices is paramount and sooo many fail to do the basics well. My acid test is this, raise a sales invoice to a non-existant customer for a non-existant product (i.e. be able to create them on the fly), if I cannot do that in less than 90 seconds then I question the usability of the system.

Gary

[GaryMc]

Surely that fragmentation can be good? If you want a particular piece of software tailored toward the industry that you work in and, more importantly, the way that you work then you are more likely to buy that (if it exists) than a one size fits all product that you then need to spend time customising so that you can work around it?

Duane broke that news because it was a validation of what he is doing. If the big guns have decided to wade in to this market then it must be the place to operate.

He also pointed out that it 'suffers from the same problem as all of Sages products - it’s obviously designed by people that have never run a small business. It looks really good and it sounds really good, but a scratch of the surface shows it simply doesn’t deliver the goods.'

Maybe they don't quite get it at the moment? They aim at a market called 'business' so how can they respond as quickly (even with their level of resources) as a company like Kashflow which knows exactly who is using the product?

I am sure that Sage is great once you have taken the time to learn how to use it but there is a great big millstone around the neck of Sage in that people don't trust them to continue with development of products.

Although until the data security and recovery issue can be addressed, all SaaS players may struggle (especially selling to accountants)

[garyk]

Surely that fragmentation can be good? If you want a particular piece of software tailored toward the industry that you work in and, more importantly, the way that you work then you are more likely to buy that (if it exists) than a one size fits all product that you then need to spend time customising so that you can work around it?

It would be if the offerings were different, trouble is it seems that you have multiple offerings all very similar which makes choosing difficult. There have been countless threads on here along the lines of 'I need CRM' with lots of follow up suggestions whilst all the while, 'that looks like overkill' or 'that doesn't do what I need' are typical responses.

He also pointed out that it 'suffers from the same problem as all of Sages products - it’s obviously designed by people that have never run a small business. It looks really good and it sounds really good, but a scratch of the surface shows it simply doesn’t deliver the goods.'

Maybe they don't quite get it at the moment? They aim at a market called 'business' so how can they respond as quickly (even with their level of resources) as a company like Kashflow which knows exactly who is using the product?

But he also said that it didnt look like the normal offering, i.e. like it was from an Internet startup and whilst they don't respond as fast they do have big enough pockets to pay someone to move on their behalf.

Please don't get me wrong I'm not making a point because I cosy up to Sage, I dont, I make money filling in the gaps they leave across their entire product range and I dont sell Sage software so have no preference for it.

Gary

[Wild Goose]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=704681#post704681)
I'll tell Ling - she's just set up an accountancy practice to become Accountingweb's newest member.


Link please? I've not seen it....
WG you'd better buy a partner licence now since you asked and it was given!! ;)

I'm hanging on until the January Sales for my partner license.;) Ling's just cleaned us out for the deposits on some motors!

[Wild Goose]

I seriously wonder reading through the thread whether the industry is on the right tack with bookkeeping software.

Why can't we have a system that looks like a cash book and a blue purchase ledger card? More importantly why can't we have one that behaves like one?

Using Sage to set up an account for hp interest to post it back monthly, post depreciation, accruals, prepayments urghhh. We accountants have to undo all that to get it back to a set of balanced books and a TB, before making our OWN hp interest / sepreciation / accruals etc posts to our own ETB.

I'm waiting for the day IPOD bring out a bookkeeping package.