Paypal woes!

[Poppy Design]

Hello

I have been having problems this last month using my business visa debit card on Paypal to pay a regular supplier.

I do not have (nor wish) a Paypal account and had thought they gave you the choice whether to sign up or just pay with a debit/credit card .....I knew there was nothing wrong with the card so I contacted Paypal....

It turns out that after using your card 15 times they stop you and try and force you to sign for an account i.e

"You can only use this check out 15 times only and on the 15th try, you would need to open a PayPal account if you want to purchase using PayPal."

So much for choice eh!

Joanne

[KidsBeeHappy]

Paypal doesn't do choice.
It is a dictatorship!!

[Poppy Design]

Paypal doesn't do choice.
It is a dictatorship!!

Yes you are so right there! Only problem is a lot of people use them!

I guess I might have to consider signing up for an account but I like paying by my visa debit - it is instant and easy!

[awebapart.com]

Have you informed your supplier, they may not be aware of this, and there might be something they can do, or something they need to do, to remove this limit.

There could be a number of reasons why PayPal has placed such a limit on the supplier's account, ranging from the supplier hasn't gone through the further verification processes with PayPal after opening the business account, deposit limits being reached, simple limits on the supplier's account due to their industry, charge backs or buyer feedback, through to other reasons like money laundering, fraud prevention, protecting the buyer, etc.

[domokun]

What have you got against PayPal?

I use them loads for ebay purchasing and for paying outsources. I find them to be very reliable and trust worthy.

[Dwebs-Ltd]

What have you got against PayPal?

I use them loads for ebay purchasing and for paying outsources. I find them to be very reliable and trust worthy.

You don't use them to run a business then, paypal couldn't give a monkey if you have a problem its your problem not theirs.

Their fees are way over the top they keep increasing them to bring in more cash but they offer sellers zero fraud protection. Quality of service is poor plus I'm sick and tired of them making changes on their backend and not informing developers properly.

End of 2009 all being well PayPal will no longer be a payment option for our clients either that or they will have to pay the paypal fees on top of the amount they need to pay.

[KidsBeeHappy]

What have you got against PayPal?

I use them loads for ebay purchasing and for paying outsources. I find them to be very reliable and trust worthy.


When you use it to primarily/only receive income, then you will become more aware of the issues of using paypal.

Paypal is designed for customers, you are using paypal as a customer.
Paypal is not designed to have any consideration for merchants.

[stugster]

End of 2009 all being well PayPal will no longer be a payment option for our clients either that or they will have to pay the paypal fees on top of the amount they need to pay.

We recently removed PayPal completely from our system, and we're saving a sh1t-load! Not to mention the fact that all customers are much happier with Google Checkout, and nobody has complained at all about PayPal going away.

Mmmmm Google Checkout! :D

[awebapart.com]

they offer sellers zero fraud protection
I think that statement is a slight exaggeration (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=fraud+protection+seller+site%3Awww.paypal.com&meta=).

Here is one example. Let's say a criminal gets hold of a person's credit card and address details. If the cardholder has a PayPal account associated with their card (and many people (http://www.e-consultancy.com/news-blog/365122/nielsen-continues-to-rate-online-payment-provider-paypal-as-number-one.html) do), the criminal will not be able to make any fraudulent purchases on PayPal without knowing the person's PayPal account login details too (PayPal sees that the card is associated with an account and it will ask the account holder to login), whereas on other non-PayPal sites the criminal might be able to make purchases (3D secure (http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/news/2226629/secure-shows-strong-growth) is beginning to address this issue, and play catch up in this area, but 3D secure has its issues (http://www.computing.co.uk/itweek/news/2214146/industry-lays-secure) too, some discussed on this forum (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=85367), and not all sites offer it).

PayPal has its issues, as do other systems. PayPal is not for everyone, but to say that PayPal offers sellers zero fraud protection is just wrong.

[Poppy Design]

What have you got against PayPal?

I use them loads for ebay purchasing and for paying outsources. I find them to be very reliable and trust worthy.

The fact that they advertise that you do NOT need to sign up for a Paypal account to pay for something using Paypal is obviously an incorrect statement on their part!

[Poppy Design]

Have you informed your supplier, they may not be aware of this, and there might be something they can do, or something they need to do, to remove this limit.

There could be a number of reasons why PayPal has placed such a limit on the supplier's account, ranging from the supplier hasn't gone through the further verification processes with PayPal after opening the business account, deposit limits being reached, simple limits on the supplier's account due to their industry, charge backs or buyer feedback, through to other reasons like money laundering, fraud prevention, protecting the buyer, etc.

Hi

Yes I have spoken to the supplier and he sorted out payment via his other company - which was fine but a pain for both of us.

I do not think this "15 times" limit is account specific as I cannot use this visa debit card to pay any other supplier or online shop that uses Paypal. Card is 100% fine and I can use Protx, Worldpay etc ok.

This is the email reply I got from them today:

"In using an unregistered account, you can only send a limited number of times you can
use a credit card to purchase an eBay item. You can only use this check
out 15 times only and on the 15th try, you would need to open a PayPal
account if you want to purchase using PayPal. I suggest that you open a
PayPal account by following these steps:"

So that to me says "open a Paypal account now or you cannot use Paypal"!!

[aaamusements]

It's worth noting that once you have signed up with a Paypal account, you can then fund any payments with your debit card as you have been doing.
Or you can choose to use a credit card or bank transfer within Paypal, it's up to you.

(Incidentally I am not advocating Paypal in any way. I view them as a necessary evil! :mad:)

[awebapart.com]

I do not think this "15 times" limit is account specific as I cannot use this visa debit card to pay any other supplier or online shop that uses Paypal.
In that case, it looks like the purchase limit is being applied to your card for some reason. Perhaps your buying patterns have triggered some alert - not because you are doing anything wrong, simple because the anti-fraud algorithms have kicked in for something PayPal thinks might be suspect (e.g. making a number of payments to one particular account or one particular seller who might also have issues with PayPal). These algorithms, like other banking anti-fraud pattern recognition algorithms, do sometimes get things wrong even though they are there for good reason, to provide protection to both the seller and the card holder, and to minimise fraud and money laundering. Perhaps in this case, PayPal is merely a bit unsure, and is asking for more information from you, just as any online shop owner might do if they are a bit unsure about the buyer.

[edmondscommerce]

Paypal is a pain but hey what can you do if your supplier is using them?

I would contact your suppliers and see if they would accept internet bank transfer instead if you really really don't want to sign up to paypal.

From a business point of view, Google Checkout is great but triple check you have compatible SSL before you get it set up!

[starsgazing]

Perhaps your buying patterns have triggered some alert - not because you are doing anything wrong, simple because the anti-fraud algorithms have kicked in for something PayPal thinks might be suspect (e.g. making a number of payments to one particular account or one particular seller who might also have issues with PayPal

:) Or perhaps they just want to hook her in by forcing her to get an account..

[Poppy Design]

In that case, it looks like the purchase limit is being applied to your card for some reason. Perhaps your buying patterns have triggered some alert - not because you are doing anything wrong, simple because the anti-fraud algorithms have kicked in for something PayPal thinks might be suspect (e.g. making a number of payments to one particular account or one particular seller who might also have issues with PayPal). These algorithms, like other banking anti-fraud pattern recognition algorithms, do sometimes get things wrong even though they are there for good reason, to provide protection to both the seller and the card holder, and to minimise fraud and money laundering. Perhaps in this case, PayPal is merely a bit unsure, and is asking for more information from you, just as any online shop owner might do if they are a bit unsure about the buyer.

Hi

No it sounds like a standard policy they have.

At the end of the day their aim is get as many people signed up to their account so they can make a fee from transactions.

I just like choice which is why I will be recommending to all future ecommerce clients of mine to stay clear of Paypal and consider Protx to similar.

[Poppy Design]

It's worth noting that once you have signed up with a Paypal account, you can then fund any payments with your debit card as you have been doing.
Or you can choose to use a credit card or bank transfer within Paypal, it's up to you.

(Incidentally I am not advocating Paypal in any way. I view them as a necessary evil! :mad:)

Hi

Thanks for this reply - very useful.

This is what I have been trying to find out from Paypal today i.e if I sign up to Paypal can I still use my debit card.

However Paypal seemed unable to understand this question!

Cheers

[aaamusements]

Hi

No it sounds like a standard policy they have.

At the end of the day their aim is get as many people signed up to their account so they can make a fee from transactions.

I just like choice which is why I will be recommending to all future ecommerce clients of mine to stay clear of Paypal and consider Protx to similar.

But you will not have to pay a fee to send money - nothing will change for you.
See my post above.

Sure you are still able to use your debit card in paypal, as I know that I already do.

[Carl-CSNM]

Never had any major problems as both a merchant & a consumer with PayPal. Support have always been fantastic both via email & telephone.

[Dwebs-Ltd]

Never had any major problems as both a merchant & a consumer with PayPal. Support have always been fantastic both via email & telephone.

Consider yourself lucky Carl :)

Email support response > 5 days usually even to disputes
Phone Support I've had an issue with from day one yes its in the US but the problem is they don't give a monkey.

Trust me when something goes wrong between you and PP its hell.

[Carl-CSNM]

I always go through to Ireland when I call support...