Ecommerce fees for newbie

[paul1664]

Hi guys,

I'm looking to take online payments for a website and need a bit of a sanity check.

Protx charge £20 monthly. Thats it! No % fee.

WorldPay charge £30 monthly + 4.5%


Am I missing something here? Looks to me like WP is far more expensive by charging a % fee.


Also, Gate2Shop have a chargeback guarantee to protect you against fraud - is this available with Protx or WP, or available elsewhere?


Cheers,

Paul.

Paul.

[sysops]

I'm looking to take online payments for a website and need a bit of a sanity check.

Protx charge £20 monthly. Thats it! No % fee.


Up to 330 transactions a month, yes.


WorldPay charge £30 monthly + 4.5%

Am I missing something here? Looks to me like WP is far more expensive by charging a % fee.


Does that WorldPay fee include a merchant account?

Either way, I think WorldPay are where they are because they were there early on, not because they are necessarily good or competitive.


Also, Gate2Shop have a chargeback guarantee to protect you against fraud - is this available with Protx or WP, or available elsewhere?


Have you read the terms of that guarantee? It doesn't really mean a great deal.

[luckyg]

Hi guys,

I'm looking to take online payments for a website and need a bit of a sanity check.

Protx charge £20 monthly. Thats it! No % fee.

WorldPay charge £30 monthly + 4.5%


Am I missing something here? Looks to me like WP is far more expensive by charging a % fee.


Also, Gate2Shop have a chargeback guarantee to protect you against fraud - is this available with Protx or WP, or available elsewhere?


Cheers,

Paul.

Paul.

tell worldpay your turnover will be 25k per month and they will give you 3% trsnsaction fees.

I hate worlpday, I have just left them and switched to protx.

worldpay take on average 7 days to respond to my queries.

they held my funds for 5 weeks for past 18 months and have only just got it down to 2 weeks settlement delay. if they had done this earlier i wouldnt have left them

but now that i have left them protx are much cheaper saving me hundreds a month and i get the funds within 3 days

the only downside to protx is the 3dsecured feature for taking maestro.

[Online Trader]

I would support what Luckyg has said, Protx are much better than Worldpay and will help your cash flow position out no end :)

[Gate2Shop]

There is no fee for the guarantee it is included in the service, and no monthly and until 12/31 no set up fee.

[sysops]

There is no fee for the guarantee it is included in the service, and no monthly and until 12/31 no set up fee.

But the guarantee is only for chargebacks above 1% of your monthly turnover - this will only cover a very small percentage of merchants.

Frankly, I think they way you present the guarantee is misleading.

[Gate2Shop]

If you only knew, It covers 99% of all the chargebacks.

[sysops]

If you only knew, It covers 99% of all the chargebacks.

Are you saying 99% of your merchants experience chargebacks above 1%?

[nickpp]

You need an merchant account with a bank to use protx (unless they have changed things in the last few months) the merchant account with your bank also has a cost per month and a % transaction charge,

[sysops]

You need an merchant account with a bank to use protx (unless they have changed things in the last few months) the merchant account with your bank also has a cost per month and a % transaction charge,

No, most merchant accounts don't carry a monthly charge. Additionally, their % will be a hell of a lot less than 4.5%.

[paul1664]

Does anyone know a good % charge for a merchant account?

Also, does anybody else other than gate2shop offer chargeback protection? Insurance perhaps?

P.

[sysops]

Does anyone know a good % charge for a merchant account?


Yes, I do.

[paul1664]

Lol! Care to share? Just looking for guidelines of what I should be looking for.

[nickpp]

I am with Lloyds tsb and HSBC, they both either wanted an initial payment upfront (250-300) from memory or a monthly charge, but yes their transaction fees are lower per month.

One of the benefits is of course with your own account its says your name on customers credit card will rather than worldpay yourname. Before we had our own merchant account we used to get a couple of chargebacks per month from customer not recognising the company name on their bill

[sysops]

Lol! Care to share? Just looking for guidelines of what I should be looking for.

It will totally depend on your turnover. Anything between 3.5% and 0.8%

[paul1664]

So its turnover based... thanks. Now I know what to ask!

[Burden]

im starting off with Paypal payments pro.
Can anyone tell me how quickly i can get my funds from the customer paying??

[quikshop]

If you only knew, It covers 99% of all the chargebacks.

Are you regulated by the FSA?

[who_me]

Does anyone know a good % charge for a merchant account?

There is a rough guide for a small business of the kind of charges, scroll to the bottom of the page (http://www.mistore.co.uk/content/merchantaccounts). Merchant rates are totally negotiable and relative to the turnover through the account and the level of charge back risk.

If for example you turned over 100k a month you could look to roughly halve those rates shown in the table etc... it's much about the length of a piece of string, so get negotiating :)

[TotallySport]

Up to 330 transactions a month, yes.
Its upto 1000 transactions a month.

http://www.protx.com/packages.asp

[sysops]

Its upto 1000 transactions a month.

http://www.protx.com/packages.asp

It's up to 1000 transactions per quarter, so what I said is correct.

[TotallySport]

It's up to 1000 transactions per quarter, so what I said is correct.Yup sorry servces me right, didn't it used to be per month?

[stacks]

I was using PalPal pro but the % they charge was too high so now also have Protx and a HSB Merchant account.

Both were totally free to setup as there seem to be soem offers on at the moment.

[stacks]

I was using PalPal pro but the % they charge was too high so now also have Protx and a HSB Merchant account.

Both were totally free to setup as there seem to be some offers on at the moment.

[ravs]

Thats great i have been looking for a merchant account and didnt know what one. Im already a hsbc account holder so hopefully wont have a problem getting a merchant account. I will use this account with protx.

With paypal i recomend you dont count on any seller security. read my last post abount paypal, google checkout i think its under the 2checkout posting.

Best of luck and BEWARE OF PAYPAL

[movietub]

I have a question about Protx...

From what I read they charge just £20 a month for upto 330 transactions a month - what do they charge for more? I want to switch from Paypal but we do about 600 a month through them, plus other through GCheckout but I'm naturally quite happy with their rates!

I'm also assuming that Protx are so cheap because all they are doing is handling the secure transfer of data, not actually processing the cards in house? I have a retail store with a Natwest/Streamline account so no doubt I could use this merchant account rather than pay Protx for one?

Would really like to hear from someone who is in a similar position to me that has switched to Protx.

If this is all correct I could save so much money - Lamborghini!...:cool:

[movietub]

Ok ignore the last post - I decided to stop being lazy and check it out myself!

Here is roughly what we pay now with PayPal:

600 trans a month, average value £37 = £22,200 pm

PayPal rate 2.1% + 20p per tran works out at £586.20


If I switch to Protx and use my Streamline MA, I checked this is accepted:

Streamline rate 1.48% (average based on mixed cards) plus 10p per trans from protx (corporate business service rate)

Total = £388.56

And to be honest I'm sure I could get the visa/mcard rates down with streamline if I bunged them anothe 20k of transactions a month!

All in all I reckon I could save about £300 and that gap will widen as we expand and can negotiate even better rates - I think you need to average about 50k pm these days to have any real bargaining power.

£300 quid better off a month isn't quite enough for Lamborghini repayments but first thing on Monday I shall instigate changes and then get myself down to the Audi showroom. Will be a good day at the office!

[davidakerr]

FSB Members enjoy better rates thru Streamline than the ones posted here!!!

[AltumV]

One of my business contacts, John Coulter who is a director of a company called Verdent is worth speaking to. He is currently doing some work with a company called Just Pay Less (JPL) who are able to secure you the best credit and debit card transaction costs for a business whether it is via an e-commerce site or via face-to-face transaction. JPL can help you secure you the same transaction rates as a big company. If you want any further information then contact me and I will put you in contact with John Coulter directly.

[davisonconsultancy]

1. Start off with a forecast of how many transactions and their average value for the month.
2. Look at each payment provider's agreements and charges, bearing in mind the following points:
- fixed monthly charge, are there any limits to number and/or value per month
- transaction charges, may be over and about monthly limit
- policy on chargebacks
- Adherence to Credit Card legislation (PCI etc)
- Can the payment solution be integrated into your website or does it "breakout" to their site to process the payment?
- Does your webshop allow integrated payments?

[davidakerr]

AltumV

Have tried to Google Verdent and JPL without success. Any other info apart from contacting your friend?

[Marzipan]

FSB Members enjoy better rates thru Streamline than the ones posted here!!!

I'll second that!!

[movietub]

I'll second that!!

I heard that several business member organistaions and the like could offer savings on streamline so I spoke to a few and they all said that the rates I already had would be impossible to beat!

I think my partner may had haggled a bit when we set the account up. Apparently the minimum charge supplement we had was so low that any tiny percentage adjustment they could offer on transactions wouldnt have made any difference.

Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe anyone cheeky enough to ask can get a better rate from streamline than they are offered?

By the way I agree streamline are very very good all round.

[TotallySport]

I heard that several business member organistaions and the like could offer savings on streamline so I spoke to a few and they all said that the rates I already had would be impossible to beat!

I think my partner may had haggled a bit when we set the account up. Apparently the minimum charge supplement we had was so low that any tiny percentage adjustment they could offer on transactions wouldnt have made any difference.

Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe anyone cheeky enough to ask can get a better rate from streamline than they are offered?

By the way I agree streamline are very very good all round.

It all depends on your turnover.

If your starting small the main benefit from FSB and streamline is they wave the £250 setup fee (saving £250 one off) and they wave the monthly fee of £30 (saving £30 per month), then you can haggle on the rate as well, if you have a large turnover through the system it might not swing it if you get a good enough rate.

[edmondscommerce]

protx and streamline is a great combo

[bnt76]

im starting off with Paypal payments pro.
Can anyone tell me how quickly i can get my funds from the customer paying??


Usually takes 7-10 working days.

[bnt76]

im starting off with Paypal payments pro.
Can anyone tell me how quickly i can get my funds from the customer paying??

You will get the funds immediately into your paypal account. Transferring to your bank account however takes 7-10 days.

[FireFleur]

Merchant accounts are often charged to open, and sometimes annually.

The % varies, and tends to be on turnover, though items can change that.

So, there is a cost for the payment gateway, and a cost for the merchant account at the bank.

[Retail-Therapist]

How much does it cost to become a member of the FSB?

And do you have to have a proven turnover or would streamline waiver those costs for a start-up that's an FSB member?

[movietub]

How much does it cost to become a member of the FSB?

And do you have to have a proven turnover or would streamline waiver those costs for a start-up that's an FSB member?

When we opened the shop (high street shop) we negotiated no setup fees/terminal fees.

In fact I find that most companies are ultimately more interested in getting your business than haggling over fees. So don't let them fool you, everything negotiable!

We're not FSB members either

[davidakerr]

originally posted by Retail-Therapist

How much does it cost to become a member of the FSB?

Depends on employee level, but it starts from £120 per annum

And do you have to have a proven turnover or would streamline waiver these costs for a start-up that's an FSB member?

There is no installation/arrangement fee to be paid to Streamline by FSB members, therefore a potential saving of £250. Terminal Rental fees are discounted from £19.95 to £14.95 and FSB members enjoy 3 months rent free in their 1st year of. In the 2nd year of membership you get a further 2 months rent free. CC handling charges are based on turnover (if new to cards acceptance 1st 6 months 1.9%).

movietub has stated they negotiated fees, but from a previous post the rates they are paying are still higher than FSB members pay at a comparable t/o figure.

The FSB is not just about obtaining cheaper streamline rates, there's a lot more to it than that. Check out www.fsb.org.uk (http://www.fsb.org.uk) and enquire about membership..................you will not regret it.

[movietub]

originally posted by Retail-Therapist

How much does it cost to become a member of the FSB?

Depends on employee level, but it starts from £120 per annum

And do you have to have a proven turnover or would streamline waiver these costs for a start-up that's an FSB member?

There is no installation/arrangement fee to be paid to Streamline by FSB members, therefore a potential saving of £250. Terminal Rental fees are discounted from £19.95 to £14.95 and FSB members enjoy 3 months rent free in their 1st year of. In the 2nd year of membership you get a further 2 months rent free. CC handling charges are based on turnover (if new to cards acceptance 1st 6 months 1.9%).

movietub has stated they negotiated fees, but from a previous post the rates they are paying are still higher than FSB members pay at a comparable t/o figure.

The FSB is not just about obtaining cheaper streamline rates, there's a lot more to it than that. Check out www.fsb.org.uk (http://www.fsb.org.uk) and enquire about membership..................you will not regret it.

Did I?

We pay about 1.4% on average I think. I said I negotiated no setup fees - despite not being an FSB member. Not that I have any reason to think being an FSB member is not worth it.

What % do FSB members pay typically?

[davidakerr]

movietub you said you were paying about 1.48% average you now say you pay about 1.4% on average I think, yet you claim to have negotiated a deal.If I was using streamline and had the t/o figure you claim, I would know exactly how much I was paying. You also stated you pay no monthly rental................mmm. Good luck to you if your negotiating skills have produced these figures, but as I stated in my post the FSB is not about cheaper streamline deals; its part of being a member, it's a bonus available to FSB members.

I have no idea what % FSB members typically pay; its down to t/o; the higher the t/o the cheaper the deal, although I know some members receive 1.17%.

[movietub]

movietub you said you were paying about 1.48% average you now say you pay about 1.4% on average I think, yet you claim to have negotiated a deal.If I was using streamline and had the t/o figure you claim, I would know exactly how much I was paying. You also stated you pay no monthly rental................mmm. Good luck to you if your negotiating skills have produced these figures, but as I stated in my post the FSB is not about cheaper streamline deals; its part of being a member, it's a bonus available to FSB members.

I have no idea what % FSB members typically pay; its down to t/o; the higher the t/o the cheaper the deal, although I know some members receive 1.17%.

Sorry I have been vague and inaccurate - several areas to our business and I don't do all the admin these days...

However as I don't wish to make a tit out myself I now have the most recent invoice in front of me!

We pay £14.95 terminal rental - what we negotiated were no up front fees to get setup in the first place (from memory).

We pay 1.95 % for credit cards and 0% for all debit cards including visa delta.

Our minimum charge supplement is £4.16 per month.

Based on last months total charges divided my the total sales we paid 1.39% average for ALL cards.

So some FSB memebers get down to 1.17%? Is that for credit cards? Or an average for all cards?

I am interested.

[davidakerr]

Hi movietub

What I was trying to convey in my post, and you have now confirmed it, was the majority of businesses using streamline seem to think they receive a lower rate than they actually do. Your 1.95% charge on CC is actually more than an FSB member, who has never used cards before, will receive as a new user. The 1.17% I refer to is the rate a member will receive dependant on t/o on CC handling charges. Once you add charges for DC and average out the total transactions you will probably discover the average % rate on all transactions is actually lower than 1.17%.

I was not, and hope I did not give the impression, I was trying to be a smart ass, but when you embrace this saving and all the other benefits provided by the FSB then I cannot for the life of me understand why so many small businesses seem to be anti- FSB. It's the best bit of business I did. There may be issues people don't agree upon and I also agree sometimes the FSB can be a bit pedantic, but that aside, I have no problems with some of the services they provide that can potentially save me thousands of pounds per annum. Look at it from an overall prospective, not just savings on streamline.

[movietub]

Its ok - I was never anti FSB! I was just pointing out that even non members can avoid paying setup costs for streamline.

But all useful information - and we should look into it. What else is in the FSB member package? Any legal insurance etc?

[davidakerr]

I wasn't suggesting you specifically was anti FSB, just a number of small businesses in general. I know from experience many small businesses are, for whatever reason, reluctant to try and negotiate deals with banks on bank services, they basically accept what the bank has to offer and they seem grateful the bank even considered them for the service in the first place.

Legal protection Insurance is at the forefront of the FSB 's benefit package. Legal protection for small businesses in employment issues; tax and VAT investigations; Health and Safety issues etc. Check the website www.fsb.org.uk (http://www.fsb.org.uk) this will give you some idea of what is included.

[movietub]

Thanks for the link - I'll have a look and discuss it with others at our next sit down. If we can arrange better rates it seems a no brainer.

Your point about small businesses not taking the initiative to seek lower costs was actually what prompted me to post in the first place - and I quite agree.

Anyone in business should treat any increase in t/o as an opportunity to review costs of all services. It's a vicious circle but one that works FOR you, not against!

higher turnover ='s lower costs ='s lower prices to the customer ='s even higher turnover ='s even lower costs = 's profit :) and so on...

A lot of businesses could do with looking at incoming costs to increase profit rather than outward sales price and volume.

[Retail-Therapist]

I think that their are anough benefits to justify the price of joining the FSB (but I wont be displaying the badge on my website)

Regarding Streamline...I thought the £250 was for setting up my merchant account not for connecting to worldpay

[davidakerr]

movietub your absolutely right. More small businesses should be looking at what they can save on services they already use. More savings = increase profits. Streamline is only one area. Liability Insurance is another, and so is Bank charges. When businesses start feeling the pinch the answer seems to be to reduce the work force; that can lead to redundancy. If small businesses are unaware of the procedures involved in this situation they can find themselves worse off financially if they dont follow the procedures as laid down under the Employments Rights Act 1996.This is where the FSB can be of enormous help. Advice is available 24/7 from the Legal Helpline by experienced qualified lawyers.

[davidakerr]

originally posted by Retail-Therapist

..........................(but I wont be displaying the badge on my website)

Any reason why not? Could work for you with other FSB members linking to your website through your FREE entry on the FSB Directory.

A lot depends on how you wish to use Merchant Services. There are various ways to accept payment via the internet. I am not sufficiently versed in all the different methods but you can contact Streamline direct and obtain information on the pros and cons and also determine what savings are available to FSB members using whatever method you choose.

Hope this info is of some help to you.

[Retail-Therapist]

High Dave,

I just don't like to see FSB badges on retail sites it makes them look amatureish IMHO. It looks OK on a tree surgeon or plasterers website as it shows them as trying to be progressive in there approach but in online retail I just think people need to look like they are well established and more corporate if they trade in a competitive market..