HOW to enforce CCJ

[parwaz]

Dear ALL

I am individual creditor with a judgement of around £6000 plus interest since 2005. The debtor was a sole trader who passed his business interests into his wife’s name to avid paying me. Even so he is running the business on day to day. The house he lives in his in wife name alone (not his). The car he drives is in his name but has finance 49 months from last year

I obtained high court rite and enforced by High enforcement officers and he agree to pay instalment of £72 per months. After few instalments he has defaulted on the instalment and it is almost three years now and I am still not paid.

Now I have traced details of his Bank account and I believe he has sufficient balance to cover my debt.

I want to get third party charging order for his bank but I write to ask how to make sure there are sufficient balance when the interim order is enforced upon his bank and to make sure that his bank account his name alone.

I would welcome your views on how to get his bank balance and maybe it is possible to put charging order on his wifes house where he lives too.

I will appreciate all the help given and may God Bless you all.

[maxine]

Try going for an order to obtain information. More info can be found here

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/enforcement/index.htm

[M-C Hoare]

I believe that under the third party charge order, the bank will "freeze" the account when served the interim order and is obliged to report back to the Court on the balance in the account together with details of any other accounts they hold for the debtor.
I don't believe that there is a way to check in advance because of the data protections issues but even if the balance is not sufficient to pay the whole amount, something is better than nothing?
I think there may also be a mechanism for getting the Court to contact all the other banks to see whether they also hold any accounts in the debtor's name and to attach those to the order, but you would have to check with the Court as it is some considerable time ago that I last did one of these.
Marie

[maxine]

Applying for an order to obtain more information will allow you information to the debtors financial details in advance of applying for a third party debt order. The debtor will be asked to provide all financial information including bank statements etc.

This used to be referred to as "Oral Examination" but now they have changed the names of everthing as the 3rd party debt order used to be called "Garnishee Order"

... showing my age now :)

Hope that helps

[eddierower]

Dear ALL

I am individual creditor with a judgement of around £6000 plus interest since 2005. The debtor was a sole trader who passed his business interests into his wife’s name to avid paying me. Even so he is running the business on day to day. The house he lives in his in wife name alone (not his). The car he drives is in his name but has finance 49 months from last year

I obtained high court rite and enforced by High enforcement officers and he agree to pay instalment of £72 per months. After few instalments he has defaulted on the instalment and it is almost three years now and I am still not paid.

Now I have traced details of his Bank account and I believe he has sufficient balance to cover my debt.

I want to get third party charging order for his bank but I write to ask how to make sure there are sufficient balance when the interim order is enforced upon his bank and to make sure that his bank account his name alone.

I would welcome your views on how to get his bank balance and maybe it is possible to put charging order on his wifes house where he lives too.

I will appreciate all the help given and may God Bless you all.


I'm in a similar situation - please advise how you traced his bank account and what generally what tracing services you used. I have a debtor who has disappered.

[Business News]

A 3rd party debt order issued against a bank account is an excellent tool and one I have employed with 100% success rate. The only issue that was around last time I used this tactic is the level of the debt you are attempting to recover. My understanding of the regs is that if there are insufficient funds then the debt order will fail and £6000 is a reasonably large wedge of cash for a private individual to hold in their account.

I've always applied 3rd party debt orders on bank accounts where the CCJ is under £1,000.

To answer another question posed in this thread on how to obtain bank account information there are several legitimate means. If they are a customer and pay by cheque then you have the info in your hands. If they pay by BACS you can contact the accounts payable department and say you need to apply a credit against an incorrect payment and they will then more than happily offer up their account information. If the company or individual is a service provider then you can place a pre-pay order and say you want to pay by BACS, you will then have the bank details and can cancel your order. Some methods are more devious than others but I do regard people avoiding payment as devious so have few qualms about manipulating them in order to provide me with the means to recover debt.

[GRDCredit]

even if the balance is not sufficient to pay the whole amount, something is better than nothing?


My understanding of the regs is that if there are insufficient funds then the debt order will fail and £6000 is a reasonably large wedge of cash for a private individual to hold in their account.



Very important point here and I imagine one of the 'debt collectors' on here will be able to confirm but my belief is if your judgement is for £6,000 and there is a balance in a bank account of £5,900 you will get nothing from the garnishee order (I go back a bit as well Maxine!)

[eddierower]

I don't get that impression form what the court service from web site which says the following regarding third part orders.

"...Remember that the court cannot order the third party to pay you an amount that is more than the amount originally frozen. If this is less than you are owed, then you may want to consider other enforcement procedures to recover the balance."

But it would be good to have a solicitors opinion.

[raybonda]

I believe that under the third party charge order, the bank will "freeze" the account when served the interim order and is obliged to report back to the Court on the balance in the account together with details of any other accounts they hold for the debtor.
I don't believe that there is a way to check in advance because of the data protections issues but even if the balance is not sufficient to pay the whole amount, something is better than nothing?
I think there may also be a mechanism for getting the Court to contact all the other banks to see whether they also hold any accounts in the debtor's name and to attach those to the order, but you would have to check with the Court as it is some considerable time ago that I last did one of these.
Marie

can anyone tell me if a ccj third party charge 'freeze' works with an offshore jersey bank account,
thanks ,
Ray

[lucy*tenable]

can anyone tell me if a ccj third party charge 'freeze' works with an offshore jersey bank account,
thanks ,
Ray

Hi Ray......

WOW this is an old thread you have dragged up! :)

Right, even though i have responded to the PM you have sent me i thought it prudent to post on here for future reference.

A Third Party Debt Order CANNOT work on an offshore bank account, it can only work *if* the bank has an address in England / Wales.

Obviously the details you have give on this post and my PM are fairly limited and i do not know the amount etc BUT my recommendation would be firstly (if not done already) is get an Order to Attend the Court for Questionning issued (cost £50). You will then know exactly where you stand and can move forward.

Dependant on the amount etc and the outcome of the court interview then options such as Stat demand, charging order are possible.

If you would like to provide me with some more information i would be happy to give you some pointers / assist.

Lucy :)

[raybonda]

Hi Ray......

WOW this is an old thread you have dragged up! :)

Right, even though i have responded to the PM you have sent me i thought it prudent to post on here for future reference.

A Third Party Debt Order CANNOT work on an offshore bank account, it can only work *if* the bank has an address in England / Wales.

Obviously the details you have give on this post and my PM are fairly limited and i do not know the amount etc BUT my recommendation would be firstly (if not done already) is get an Order to Attend the Court for Questionning issued (cost £50). You will then know exactly where you stand and can move forward.

Dependant on the amount etc and the outcome of the court interview then options such as Stat demand, charging order are possible.

If you would like to provide me with some more information i would be happy to give you some pointers / assist.

Lucy :)
Hi Lucy,
I did reply but i am not sure it got sent, so i am doing this on word , then copy ,,,,,
Well, the woman has got a villa in Spain, and the offshore account is with Loyds, i have the account number etc which has a mortgage on it and is rented out at 800 euro pm until summer then it will be more expensive.
As you asked, i have no idea what the procedure is in the county court.
I sorta just expected that the court would deal with it.
I know that my money went into the offshore account, she has not put any defence forward and the time is up, i thought enforcement came via the court.
She is english residing in Camberley but her property is in Spain, i kn ow it is very complicated but that is as she planned it , just using a mobile and an email.
Her live in lover (father of her baby)has a house in luton rented to east europeans. He is a singer in a band in benidorm
I really dont know what i can tell you ,. Without you asking questions
Xx
Ray

[lucy*tenable]

Hi Lucy,
I did reply but i am not sure it got sent, so i am doing this on word , then copy ,,,,,
Well, the woman has got a villa in Spain, and the offshore account is with Loyds, i have the account number etc which has a mortgage on it and is rented out at 800 euro pm until summer then it will be more expensive.
As you asked, i have no idea what the procedure is in the county court.
I sorta just expected that the court would deal with it.
I know that my money went into the offshore account, she has not put any defence forward and the time is up, i thought enforcement came via the court.
She is english residing in Camberley but her property is in Spain, i kn ow it is very complicated but that is as she planned it , just using a mobile and an email.
Her live in lover (father of her baby)has a house in luton rented to east europeans. He is a singer in a band in benidorm
I really dont know what i can tell you ,. Without you asking questions
Xx
Ray

I got your PM Ray....i will respond more personally to you on there but thought for the benefit of any other member / browser i would put some basics on here.

A Third Party Debt Order is only useful IF you know 100% there is money in the account. The County Court system is ok if you know what to do, you have to chase everything and decide on your next step.

So if she is living in Camberley....is this house rented? Or does she have an interest in it?

Lucy

[Jerry2010]

Dear ALL,

I have a question on that and hope you could provide advice from your expert point of view.

For me, the dependant is my previous landlord company (England-registered), so a large amount of money should be in the account which I used to pay rent into, at least at the beginning of each month.

I want to apply for A Third Party Debt Order but then I happened to find they use 'Bank of Scotland' whose head office is in Scotland. The branch of their account is also in Scotland. Is it a common trick for such England companies to avoid money being frozen?

I know they do have an branch in London and also somewhere else in England. I am wondering whether I can use their London branch adderss to apply for A Third Party Debt Order? In Form 349, I am required to provide
'Its head office address in England and Wales is'. Many thanks!

Jerry2010

[lucy*tenable]

Dear ALL,

I have a question on that and hope you could provide advice from your expert point of view.

For me, the dependant is my previous landlord company (England-registered), so a large amount of money should be in the account which I used to pay rent into, at least at the beginning of each month.

I want to apply for A Third Party Debt Order but then I happened to find they use 'Bank of Scotland' whose head office is in Scotland. The branch of their account is also in Scotland. Is it a common trick for such England companies to avoid money being frozen?

I know they do have an branch in London and also somewhere else in England. I am wondering whether I can use their London branch adderss to apply for A Third Party Debt Order? In Form 349, I am required to provide
'Its head office address in England and Wales is'. Many thanks!

Jerry2010

Jerry, you will get better advice if you start your own thread. This thread is quite old now.

One thing i will say is a Third Party Debt Order is not as simple as you may think and you do need to take advice, for example - it goes to a hearing and the judge decides whether to grant the order or not. If the debtor has representation they will run rings around you if you chose to go yourself.

In your own thread you need to advise what how much the debt is? If you have a CCJ issued (was it issued in default or did they put in a defence?), is it against a Limited company?

If you PM me when you have made your own thread i will have a look and try to help.

Lucy :)

[sarahlouise]

:|Hi everyone I have been reading some of the post and hope that someone may be able to help me. I won a judgement against a car clamping company but they have failed to pay, I know there are several options available to me to enforce this judgement I'm just unsure which one would be best.
I can not do a Third party order because I do not have there bank details. An Attachment of earnings order I don't think is right as the defendant is a company not an individual. A Charging order once again I don't think is fit for these circumstance. I am thinking that my only way to get my money is by using a warrant of execution, sending the bailiffs round. I would be very grateful to any advice given.

[mcgovern]

county court bailiff are a waste of time IMO.

You are right with being unable to get an attachment of earnings

A charging order is not going to work on a ltd company unless they own their office buildding

How much is the judgement for?

If It is over £600, your best bet would be to transfer it upto the high court and get a High Court Enforcement company to execute a Writ of FI FA

[sarahlouise]

Hi thanks for your input, no its not over £600 just under that amount but its the principle I was bullied by one of there clampers late one night, why do you say the courts bailiffs no good ??? have you had experience with them ??

[mcgovern]

I work/ worked in the industry for many years, and County court bailiff are mainly semi - retired individuals on a salary with nothing to personal to gain from executing the warrant, hence not much effort, unless it is a really easy job.

when you transfer the judgement up, there are associated costs added to the judgement so you probably will be able to transfer it up as these costs a taken into the overall figure.

Try JBW High court enforcement, ask for chris, she will best advise you.

[Vicarious]

I echo the snetiment about CC bailiffs - not effective

For larger amounts the private bailiffs though very professional, scare the willies out of your debtor. Last time I did that he fled and left his wife to deal with it and she divorced him - I did her a favour

Noone has mentioned bankruptcy. It is a threat more than a desire but you have to be prepared to do it. I had a guy whose profession would not have allowed him to continue.

[Alan R Price]

:|Hi everyone I have been reading some of the post and hope that someone may be able to help me. I won a judgement against a car clamping company but they have failed to pay, I know there are several options available to me to enforce this judgement I'm just unsure which one would be best.
I can not do a Third party order because I do not have there bank details. An Attachment of earnings order I don't think is right as the defendant is a company not an individual. A Charging order once again I don't think is fit for these circumstance. I am thinking that my only way to get my money is by using a warrant of execution, sending the bailiffs round. I would be very grateful to any advice given.

You have a judgment so they cannot dispute the debt. You can send in a court bailiff to seize goods although as posters say they are not always terribly good. However my business partner once sued the Inland Revenue for an outstanding invoice and was ignored. He got a judgment against the Revenue and sent in the court bailiff when payment was not forthcoming and got a cheque in settlement! But you have to be very persistent with the bailiff's office.

Alternatively, if the debt (including costs) is over £750 you can issue a statutory demand on the clamping company. A statutory demand is a formal demand under the insolvency legislation and failure to pay gives the creditor the right to submit a bankruptcy petition against an individual or a winding up petition against a limited company. It usually focuses the mind of the person who owes the money if he/she is simply a "won't pay" as opposed to a "can't pay". There are plenty of solicitors around who can draft a statutory demand.

On balance, because the costs of the bailiff are (I believe) added to the debt, I would instruct the bailiff. If necessary make a nuisance of yourself to get some action but I reckon it ought to work.