Need to setup an ecommorce site - Advice needed

[JoyDivision]

A client has contacted me saying that he has seen some web sites I have developed and wants me to design his. This is not my usual area and in the past have only done websites for clients I know I can work with very easily and have discouraged it for new clients as it is not something I openly advertise.

I have good PHP/MySQL/CSS knowledge and I am a qualified web developer (well I have worked as an accessible XHTML/CSS coder and I have written my dissertation on ASP.NET).

However I have limited experience of e-commerce, what packages are availible? I have written e-commerce sites from scratch at university but for security reasons this is not the route I want to go.

I have yet to speak to this client face to face so I have no idea who his hosting company is, but I know he has got his domain and hosting sorted and is now 'stuck'.

I just need some initial advice before my meeting and if any of you guys have any good products I could re-sell please let me know.

Thanks.

[davidshaw89]

I don't have e-commerce products myself, but I know of a lot of very good customisable products.

I know it may seem unprofessional, but if the client has cpanelx hosting, then you may be able to use some of the ecommerce solutions under the 'fantastico' section and customise the look and feel of it to match the website! Most of these can also be upgraded to remove any advertisements etc, and are usually easy to integrate with merchant solutions, and PayPal.
I guess it depends on how they are going to take the payment!

Hope this helps! :)

[dave_n]

as far as I know some of the guys on here offer some recommended packages...failing that it may be worth developing your own so that you have the system in place should another customer require the same

[JoyDivision]

Taking the payments is where I am confused about. I could code a shopping basket, stock database, CMS etc in less than a couple of days and make it intergrate with the site, this may be quicker than learning how to integrate an existing product, but I have no idea how to then make the payment. Either way this would be fairly low budget so the payment host would probably external as I think a merchant account is way out of my clients budget.

[davidshaw89]

What about using worldpay? They are ideal for small to medium sized businesses!

Although it would depend upon the expected turnover of the website, because worldpay costs about £30PM and has a £200 setup fee.

It could be cheaper to use an SSL certificate and collect the payment details, then process manually using an offline payment processor! they are often a lot better value for money, just a little bit of extra labour involved!

[dave_n]

the api's for taking payments all follow the same path (simplified)
1. user checks out shopping basket
2. items and total is sent to payment gateway thro https
3. payment server goes to bank takes the money out of account
4. instant payment notification goes back to your website telling you payment has been made (or not) and you process the message accordingly.

pretty simple really...the only complexity is the script that processes the notification from the payment server back to your site

[mmjosh1010]

You could try something like CubeCart which like someone else mentioned in an earlier post can be easily installed if the client uses cpanel on their hosting and has fantastico available.

Cubecart can accept a massive range of different payment gateways (Paypal, Worldpay, Protx etc...) it also comes with a cracking admin section which makes it so easy to edit the contents of the store, it's also very secure! And it doesn't cost the earth either.

There are many pre-made addons (mods) for Cubecart from loads of different developers which are great if the store needs that extra something. Cubecart uses PHP, and this is coming from someone who knows nothing about PHP it's a doodle to edit the code and customise it. So it shouldn't be anything if you're experienced in it.

Check out the Cubecart website and see what you think.

[PointandStare]

Let google (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ecommerce+%2Bopen+source) be your friend.
Test them all and choose one you like - (hint: anything but oscommerce)

[Pilfo]

I'd certainly recommend Romancart along with Protx as the PSP.

Pilfo

[dhoks8207]

I would suggest to go for OScommerce. The open source Ecommerce solution. You will also get lot of help in customising because there are lots of forum for it.

[JoyDivision]

The fact that OScommerce is the most popular kind of puts me off due to security reasons.

Today I think I will just ask him what he needs then go off and do a quote. It is always nice when people come to me to ask me to do something I don't normaly do :).

[finance-expert]

i recently used a great web consultancy called school digital, i'd highly recommend them, and they might be able to at least point you in the right direction.

[Burden]

i have viewed alot of really nice custom Cube/Oscom websites for Ecommerce and i would love to know someone who does this reasonably as everyone who does it seems to charge through the nose for it, for customising not starting from scratch.

on the other hand Cube/Oscom that are templates or not customised well are awful!

[fairestcape]

OsCommerce is OK, but Zencart is considered better for two main reasons:-

1. The software is known to be more secure (than OsCommerce) against hackers.
2. The support forum is excellent.

I started with Zencart 5 years ago (after an initial foray with OsCommerce), knowing nothing about PHP and MySQL. Today, I have built over 30 zencart webshops, and (if supplied with the correct data and images in the correct format) can get a zencart shop up-and-running inside of 4 hours.

If you have php and mysql skills, zencart will be a breeze.

[PointandStare]

I second that - I've set up tons of ZC stores, some in less than an hour.

[fairestcape]

I second that - I've set up tons of ZC stores, some in less than an hour.

My record for a zencart set up (without anciliary configurations such as payment gateway, SSL cert, or shipping prices) is 16 minutes ! (This did include client header logos and template colour scheme, 1000 or so products and their associated images.) After 6 hours of being set up, the first order came through, as we set up Googlebase at the same time!

[PointandStare]

ooo get her!

:)

[openmind]

Of course you could always go for a solution that is not only very quick to install and manage but is also completely white label and with a license to allow you to brand it as your own. Something like ours :)

www.openmindcommerce.co.uk

[PointandStare]

Nice code there Phil.

[openmind]

Thank you :)

You might be interested in our distributor program then. ;)

[fairestcape]

Phil

Just had a quick look at your system. It's good... but seems limited compared to features offered by zencart (and associated 3rd-party modules) which are all free, opensource offerings.

For example, I run a store with over 8000 products. Maybe I can't see it, but how would I populate one of your stores with full product data for 8000 products?

With zencart, I use Easy-Populate and can load this data via the admin interface in about 40 seconds.

We also have a module that geo-maps by UK postcode, enabling us to price delivery by the distance between the postcode of the warehouse and the postcode of the customer. (This in addition to a variety of other shipping configurations)

Your coupon system appears to be "global" to the store. Zencart allows you to configure coupons by store, category or individual products.

Does your system enable electronic Gift Vouchers? (Not the same as coupons).

What about image zoom functionality? Do you offer this?

What about product linkages - cross-sell and up-sell features?

Do you enable internal banners (trackable)?

What about user tracking, product search tracking, purchase tracking, etc?

I do like your in-built affiliate management - but it's just as easy to set this up on ZC using something like JROX JAM.


To be honest, I can't see anything in your package that is not already achieved by Zencart - which is free.... and ZC has a wider option of functions and features too...

Please rip me to shreds if I'm missing something!:D

[Keepsmilin]

A client has contacted me saying that he has seen some web sites I have developed and wants me to design his. This is not my usual area and in the past have only done websites for clients I know I can work with very easily and have discouraged it for new clients as it is not something I openly advertise.

I have good PHP/MySQL/CSS knowledge and I am a qualified web developer (well I have worked as an accessible XHTML/CSS coder and I have written my dissertation on ASP.NET).

However I have limited experience of e-commerce, what packages are availible? I have written e-commerce sites from scratch at university but for security reasons this is not the route I want to go.

I have yet to speak to this client face to face so I have no idea who his hosting company is, but I know he has got his domain and hosting sorted and is now 'stuck'.

I just need some initial advice before my meeting and if any of you guys have any good products I could re-sell please let me know.

Thanks.

Have a look at ShopSite Pro.

Also, check in www.digitalforest.co.uk

Cheers,

:)
Ezylet.com

[quikshop]

To be honest, I can't see anything in your package that is not already achieved by Zencart - which is free....

Describing open source eCommerce as free is such a selective statement.

The software is free to download and install but you have to pay for it to be hosted, if you want a half-decent design you have to pay for that, if you want a more inclusive support service then that costs as well.

Its a false premise to imply that eCommerce can be done for free, there is always a cost involved ;)

[fairestcape]

I said zencart is free... which it is.

I have never paid for zencart.

Costs for hosting, and consultants to design stuff for you carries costs, but zencart remains FREE.

PS: 5 years ago I knew NOTHING about php, mySql, CSS or HTML. I spent 3 months doing FREE online tutorials, and today I design e-commerce shops for a living as well as to sell products for my own account. So I avoided the cost of consultant designers by putting in a bit of personal time to learn the ropes.

My only cost is hosting the sites (at Lunarpages in the USA for $6.95 a month) and the SSL Certificate ($50 per anum). (oh... and the domain reg fees at about £2.99 a year through UK2.net).

But zencart remains absolutely FREE.

[openmind]

For example, I run a store with over 8000 products. Maybe I can't see it, but how would I populate one of your stores with full product data for 8000 products?We are working on an easy populate system but in the mean time I could write a script to do this customised to your database in around two hours free of charge.
With zencart, I use Easy-Populate and can load this data via the admin interface in about 40 seconds.As above ^^^
We also have a module that geo-maps by UK postcode, enabling us to price delivery by the distance between the postcode of the warehouse and the postcode of the customer. (This in addition to a variety of other shipping configurations)This is also on the road map but the problem we have run up against is that most accurate geo loaction services require a subscription from the end user so we have to ensure it is not only accurate but also cost effective enough fr users to actually want/use it.
Your coupon system appears to be "global" to the store. Zencart allows you to configure coupons by store, category or individual products.At the moment yes. The next release will allow coupon provisioning to departments, product(s) and also customer groups. i.e. If you have a 10% discount customer group you don't want to give them a voucher for 20% on top (or you might) :)
Does your system enable electronic Gift Vouchers? (Not the same as coupons).eVouchers is coming in the next release.
What about image zoom functionality? Do you offer this?Not at this time although we do offer a image gallery feature for the products.
What about product linkages - cross-sell and up-sell features?Cross/Upsells is in v1.3 due out beginning of July
Do you enable internal banners (trackable)?Not sure what you mean by this, the clicks a department/product receives? If so that is scheduled for v1.4
What about user tracking, product search tracking, purchase tracking, etc?Again that will come in the advanced stats for v1.4
I do like your in-built affiliate management - but it's just as easy to set this up on ZC using something like JROX JAM.Yes as you will have the ability to use the built in system or plug in 3rd party products like iDevAffiliate

The main difference between Zen and us though is that OMC is a UK product design for UK stores by UK developers. It's also a commercial product so the code is protected and developed based on user request. All this backed up by telephone/email support.

Zen has been around a long time, we've been live since October last year but already have 50+ stores using the system. As with any product though it is the development and enhancement that takes the time once you have the foundations right.

I haven't looked at Zen for a while so I've just installed on my local machine here and I cannot argue it is a very solid product. In terms of extra development, the front end of our system is open source and you are welcome to develop it further.

Although the admin area is encrypted, v1.4 will have the ability to add unlimited additional functionality into the admin area similar to Zens plugins so developers can really do what they want...

Just a couple of points I picked up on the install above...

As with most product you have to download the files, upload to the server and run the installer, takes time. v1.4 of OMC will require you to upload just one file. When run this will grab all the files from our licensing system and kick the install off.

As with most carts I have researched, product variations are handled better with the next release of OMC. We do things slightly differently in that you can have multi-combinations of product i.e. one group for colour then sizes within that colour. This allows for better stock control and product selection.

This is addition to the add-ons and upsells.

In addition v1.3 will have what I consider to be one of best SEO controlled stores around. For every individual department, manufacturer, product, CMS category and article you will be able to set the title bar text, meta tags, URL, H1 tags, alt tags all independently from the admin area to allow SEO specialists to really drill down and create perfect landing pages whilst staying within the DB driven framework.

All in all, OMC is a growth product. Granted it is commercial as opposed to free but then I honestly believe the benefits of the support and development road map outweighs a very reasonable license cost :)

[quikshop]

But zencart remains absolutely FREE.

I'm not disputing that, I'm saying eCommerce is not free.

Not wanting to fly the flag of one of my competitors too much :p but you responded to Phil's post by listing some of the aspects of zencart you think are important which Phil's software does not offer.

That's irrelevant and doesn't make zencart a better solution, just a different one.

With eCommerce you can't just take the software in isolation, its not even the most important part of running an eCommerce business!

[fairestcape]

As you can see from Phil's post, ZC does (currently) have features that are not available in his offering - but his roadmap nevertheless looks very exciting.

I agree that for many people, a robust and simple e-store is all that they need, and Phil's package looks like a very good solution. When they develop the additional features, it will be even better. Not everyone wants to have to look after the technical stuff, and I'm fortunate in that the backend bits don't worry me and I have a natural acumen for programming, it seems.

ZC does require specialist knowledge if you want to get it to look really good and to perform with ultra-efficiency. Either you earn this knowledge (like I did) or you pay for it (like my clients do). Phil's storefront is extremely attractive and customers to any store using this technology will be impressed with the user interface.

While I remain a staunch zencart advocate, I do agree that Phil's system is perfect for people who want an efficient and visually impressive e-store without having to bother themselves with too much technical detail. In fact, I would go as far as to say that I would recommend it to such people.

I agree that Phil's offering is "different", but there is still no denying that a more feature-rich program offers more value.

Phil (if you're reading this)...

ZC has a "UK Template" (designed by a really nice chap called Kev Polley) which will turn a standard ZC install into a UK configured e-store - so configuring ZC for UK use is just a matter of installing Kevin's template (takes about 10 seconds).

The banners I refer to are identical in purpose and function to advertising banners that one would invoke on 3rd-party sites (such as the banner at the top of your screen now) - only that they are for internal marketing. So you would feature these banners in strategic positions on your zenshop, and they would monitor and track click-thru rates and calculate purchases made vs click-thru's. (I think you can also install these banners on remote sites, leading to your zenstore, which are then tracked as well.)

So, in conclusion, I think that Phil's software is great, and looks to become even better, and is perfect for people wanting a no-hassle solution. If you have time to learn some technical processes (or if you already have these skills), there's absolutely no need to buy commercial e-commerce systems. The OS stuff works exceptionally well, and in most cases, better than commercial software.