8 weeks missing and no pay out

[Andy27UK]

Hey,

We sent out some parts for a customer via a reputable courier company. Unfortunately the parts never made it to our customer and the normal procedure has been followed in order to make a claim for full compensation.

It's getting on for 8 weeks since the parts went mising and im still having to call/email for updates. My customer who has been more than understanding is now starting to lose faith and i fear he'll just raise a charge back.

If i refund the customer there is always a chance (as its happened before) the good will suddenly arrive on his door step. Until we get written confirmation of loss i'm reluctant to refund or replace the goods.

Can anyone tell me what are my legal obligations to my customer in this situation?

And what are the courier company's legal obligations to us?

Thanks in advance

[.Spiralling.]

I'm not sure about your legal obligations, but I would have thought that from a customer service point of view, you really should be sending a replacement. It's not fair to ask the customer to wait until the couriers pull their finger out and get it sorted.

Can't you send a replacement and ask the couriers to pay for the lost first package, or if they find it, to return it to you?

[Andy27UK]

I agree with you, it's not in our intrest to make the customer hang on and i'd like to refund him today if possible, but i need to make sure we're covered legally and financially for any outcome.

As stated above we have been in the same situation before. We sent replacement parts for the customer and 4 weeks later the origianal shippment of parts turned up out of the blue at his door.

Our insurnace pay out which was to be credited to our account was cancelled and it was only due to the good nature of the customer that he sent the 2nd delivery of parts back to us. We're talking 100's of pounds too.

All i got from the courier people is " untill we confirm the parts are lost the liability is with you "

[downsouth]

All i got from the courier people is " untill we confirm the parts are lost the liability is with you "

dont shoot me down, but surely the parts are with the courier company, u engaged them to provide a service to deliver this item. how on earth is the liability stil with you??

Do they provide a tracking facility, signed for service, delivery docs etc

if they cant then it can only be them who 'lost' the item?????

[WhatManufacturersWant]

If the goods subsequently arrive at the customers premises the courier will get a signature that you can use as evidence of delivery and re-invoice. If the customer chooses to hang on to them then they will be liable for the payment.

We often have packages left at units on the same estate and sometimes it takes ages for them to re-surface. We usually have to go looking for them as some companies goods inward just hold onto them waiting for internal (to their company) paperwork to arrive to process them which of course never happens.

[Andy27UK]

Downsouth - Well you'd think it would be that simple but this is what i'm asking.

The parts are insured to the full value. They are trackable from point of collection to the depot only and a proof of signiture is required if it reaches the customer.

IF... it reaches the customer LATE, however... have they then fullfilled a LEGAL obligation as far as the law is concerned? If that's the case, then i would be out of pocket by refunding / replacing the parts before hand and the customer would end up with 2 lots of stuff. And would it be my fault for taking action too soon?

[Stonelaughter]

The courier company (like the post office) should have a policy that the item is considered "lost" after being missing for a certain number of days. Check their terms and conditions.

[Andy27UK]

The only reference to mis-delivered or non-delivered goods in the T&C's is the time in which you have to report it in writing to the courier company:

Mis-delivery or Non-delivery of the Goods - within 45 days from the date the Carrier receives the
Goods, so that any such claim not so made shall be waived Subject to Clause 5.3 the terms of this
condition shall not apply whenever different provision is made by the Convention Rules or
corresponding national laws.

[Stonelaughter]

In that case you should write to them now stating that the item is "Lost" as it has been missing for x days and you require to be reimbursed for it and the carriage. Have you reported it within 45 days, in writing? (i.e. have you reported in writing already or has all your contact been by telephone?)

[Stonelaughter]

p.s. if this ever came to court, you would be on fairly firm ground anyway whether you reported it in writing or not; as I'll bet that not once during any of your calls did they tell you it had to be reported in writing within 45 days... You could tell the Court that you had been in repeated contact with them during the 45 days and that they kept telling you that the item was not "confirmed as lost" and that you would "have to wait until it was".

[Andy27UK]

Proof of purchase and sales invoices have been copied and sent to them along with copies of the packing slips and tracking numbers etc.

Emails back or forth with dispute references and so on which have also been forwarded to the customer for peace of mind. I've done everything by the book as it's too much money not to.

It's just taking far too long and it's going to have to go to trading standards i think.

[Stonelaughter]

In that case I stick by what I said - write them a formal letter with the dispute ref etc and tell THEM that the item is now "lost", and demand the cost of the item and delivery. Their T&C makes no mention of a time period so you have the right to make the call. Email is not really as effective in these matters as a formal letter and it will carry more weight in any future action you may take. Make sure you give them a time limit for payment; seven days from their receipt of your letter is reasonable - that's 9 days from the day you post it.

[Stonelaughter]

Oh - and I would (rather than refund) send the customer a replacement - it might be wise to use an alternative delivery service LOL!!

[.Spiralling.]

Email is not really as effective in these matters as a formal letter and it will carry more weight in any future action you may take.


but email is accepted by courts as written communication and is a prefectly acceptable way to communicate. :)

[Andy27UK]

Stonelaughter - I think your right with regards to a written letter addressed to the person of authority. Email is fine too, but when your getting no reply and want to address the situation higher up the pecking order a hand written letter is appearantly the way forward.

I've been in a similar situation with another company and before anything goes legal trading standards advised us to write to them up to 3 times with your intensions before seeking further legal advice.

I'll write a letter, i've nothing to lose after all!

As for the customer his situation is circumstantial and the parts would be special order taking a while to come into the country. I've given him the choice of refund or replacement, which ever is more convenient at the time i eventually get a pay out.

Thank's guys for your input. I'll keep you posted with an outcome :)

[WhatManufacturersWant]

but email is accepted by courts as written communication and is a prefectly acceptable way to communicate. :)

It might be acceptable however there is no guarantee that it's been delivered to the correct person or even to the url. Email could 'go astray' for several reasons.

I have email anti spaming on various phrases that could catch a valid message - foolish I hear you say but of the 1000's of emails containing viagra I have never missed a valid one, though it's not impossible that it will catch me out. The point is there is no requirement to read all the emails I get sent particularly if I consider them to be :-

'of a nature I would not want to see'

and therefore there is no guarantee I recieved a particular e-mail it could have been deleted of the server before I even new of it's existance.

Special delivery is the way to go. Not just recorded as I have received numerous letters in the normal post that were supposed to be recorded delivery which you would think require a signature. Not apparently the case from my experience.

Remember proof of dispatch is not proof of delivery.

I shall now sit back and wait for all the solicitors out there to shoot me down in flames.

[Stonelaughter]

Remember proof of dispatch is not proof of delivery.

I'm not a solicitor or even legally qualified, but this is only correct as far as it goes.

Under Civil Procedure Rules, if a letter is sent to the correct address and you can prove it was, then the letter is deemed received TWO days later. So - you're right - it's not proof of delivery - however it's enough for the Court that you have proof of sending.

[WhatManufacturersWant]

Interesting. How does this stack up against the Post Offices published non delivery percentages.

[Stonelaughter]

I suspect that it's only a matter of time before CPR gets amended because of this; however as it stands at the moment if you sent a letter and got the standard "proof of posting" with the address particulars on it, then the letter WAS received.