Fraud orders how do you report them ?

[fuzioneer]

I have an online store, we have received quite a few obviously fraud orders over the last week

All the cards went through ok (Eventually) so where do we go from here to report them ?

[sysops]

How do you know they are fraudulent?

There are some sectors where you do get a measurable % of fraudulent transactions, particularly electronics, games, and jewellery. However, in most online retail they are really very rare.

To give you an idea, we run at a rate of around 0.03% (that's about 1 in every 3000).

[DambTech]

We use 2Checkout for our orders who check IP's, and some other details then it can take 24 hours for order to be cleared. It has being working for us at the moment with no problems.

Cheers
Dave

[fuzioneer]

they are fraudulent because the customer tried 26 cards before he hit one that worked ;)

Just spoke to payment processor and they pointed me to some good rules to implement to firstly alert and secondly stop these orders

[sysops]

they are fraudulent because the customer tried 26 cards before he hit one that worked ;)


ROFL!

That's fantastic. I don't think we've *ever* had one like that.

What was the value of the order?

[Simon-M]

We got scammed by some South Africans based out of London about a year ago. We reported it to the Police who were their usual model of professionalism. You know... Oh, OK sir (small s in Sir because we are so insignificant to them)... here is your crime number. Two days later we got a letter from some crime support group wanting to hold our hands and cry with us.

The bottom line is that the Police don't care...the credit card companies don't care and the banks don't care. Thge only ones to lose out are the merchants. And of course the GNP of the country ...but since when did anyone give a sh""t about that.

[Page]

They are to busy catching the real criminals.

You and me doing 34mph in a built up area.

I have no problems with that - just that it is above other things.

[quikshop]

We got scammed by some South Africans based out of London about a year ago. We reported it to the Police who were their usual model of professionalism. You know... Oh, OK sir (small s in Sir because we are so insignificant to them)... here is your crime number. Two days later we got a letter from some crime support group wanting to hold our hands and cry with us.

Unfortunately the Police are not funded to investigate dodgy orders.

Earlier comments are right, the Banks see online fraud as an acceptable businses risk, they use the blunt Chargeback tool to allow other types of fraud to occur, so yes, its the merchants who get it in the neck almost every single time.

There are some basic steps you can take with fraud prevention (http://www.internetretailer.biz/partner/fraud_prevention.aspx?qsaid=192) that reduces the number of dodgy orders, but if you have any doubts at all then phone the person who placed the order.

[scottybowl]

Use 3d secure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure). I'm sure you've seen it on a few shops you buy from where it asks for your pin number after entering credit card details - this reduces fraud by a very large degree. Payment gateways such as Protx allow this functionality

[Simon-M]

Unfortunately the Police are not funded to investigate dodgy orders.

What are the police funded to investigate?

[Steve2507]

Wow 26 cards before they got one, we've haven't had one like that either.

Legally you should report it to you credit card processer, but they won't do anything about it. Regarding the police, has anyone lost anything (apart from time). You have refunded the card (I assume) so you haven't lost the goods, the card owner hasn't lost money so the police won't look at it. Then again they wouldn't look at it if you had all lost money.

Personally we just refund the card and put a block on the users email address for any future orders.

[turner2000]

We've had 4 fraudulent orders in 9 months of online trading, which for an electrical retailer I would guess is not too bad. Fortunately we determined they were fraudulent after calling the phone numbers given with the orders.

What shocked me though is that the banks do not even want to know the details of the card that was used fraudulently. Surely they would want to put a block on the card as soon as possible to prevent themselves from ultimately losing more money if any other transactions are processed?

[Dwebs-Ltd]

Customers only get 3 attempts at entering credit card info or they get blocked from entering any more.

Speaking to PayPal the other week who we use for direct CC transactions using the PayPal PRO service they can block CC's directly on the system that means the card will never be able to be used on the entire paypal system again, the CC companies aren't interested from what I’ve seen which is a shame really!

[deniser]

I agree. I have tried to report fraudulent transactions to Paypal and they don't even have a form for doing so, only for the victim of the fraud. I have emailed them but they have never replied.

I have had 2 transactions where the cardholder had a Paypal verified address but stipulated delivery to another address - both transactions looked suspicious so I sent a copy of the order to the cardholder's confirmed address asking them to call me upon receipt. Neither had any knowledge of the transaction yet their identity had been stolen and their address somehow verified! One was an elderly lady that didn't know what I was talking about, the other was a man who was alarmed and reported it to the police. But no-one has been in touch with me since.

On another occasion, I had a large chargeback - a fraud. I eventually found a policeman who took the case on. He did a lot of investigation on the email accounts etc and also went round to the property because the address used was known to them as people with previous convictions for fraud had been living there. He searched the premises but the goods I had supplied were not there of course so he could take no further action. He was unwilling to get a court order for seizure of the computer so there it got stuck. So the person at the property could continue to take deliveries for fraudsters knowing that he could not be touched.

[Pmax]

Fortunately we determined they were fraudulent after calling the phone numbers given with the orders.

That's what we do. If we suspect it is an fraud order, we will try to call the phone number as mostly, they won't provide a true phone number.

[IridiumCorp]

What are the police funded to investigate?

Apparently our local greasy spoon. At any given time during the day you can find 5 or 6 of them there.

[CableGuy]

What are the police funded to investigate?

The reality is that, for my area at least, the police are working with scarce resources and doing the best they can with them. I'd much rather have them deal with top priority crime, like drugs and assaults, than paper chasing.

Having said that, there is a real need to have a centralised e-crime unit with specialists in online crime. Your local bobby is probably literate in eBay but not in online fraud.

If there was a special unit where we could report fraud instances then at least it'd send a message to the fraudsters. Whether it would be effective in dealing with the problem, which is international and thus covers a multitude of legal systems, is another matter.

In the meantime, we - the retailers - bear all the risk through the chargeback system. Thankfully fraud is quite rare for us now and we're good at spotting the few dodgy ones.

[deniser]

That's what we do. If we suspect it is an fraud order, we will try to call the phone number as mostly, they won't provide a true phone number.

They do but it is a pay as you go mobile registered to Mr Nobody at a false address.

I think you can detect it in their voices if they are not genuine. Also when you ring and say "is that Mrs ....?" they don't say yes as one would but say "Who wants to know?" before they say yes.

I sell children's clothes and what works well for me is to start asking about their child - how old it she, what are they called, how nice they would look in the clothes etc. The hesitation as they answer trying to think of the answers just says it all!

[cjd]

Look out for:

1. a disposable email address like google or hotmail, but we have a blacklist of several hundred others - note that several major brand ISPs like BTInternet and Tiscali give out disposable addresses
2. a disposable credit card - a prepay card; usually from a foreign bank
3. anonymous proxy IP address (we had one guy contact us from UK, Belgium and Germany within 20 minutes. He told us he was travelling but when we asked where he couldn't quite remember)
4. an 070 personal number or pre-pay disposable mobile number

Sometimes you can tell by talking to them but the ones that really do the damage are 'nice people' with a good story

[deniser]

Look out for:

1. a disposable email address like google or hotmail, but we have a blacklist of several hundred others - note that several major brand ISPs like BTInternet and Tiscali give out disposable addresses
2. a disposable credit card - a prepay card; usually from a foreign bank
3. anonymous proxy IP address (we had one guy contact us from UK, Belgium and Germany within 20 minutes. He told us he was travelling but when we asked where he couldn't quite remember)
4. an 070 personal number or pre-pay disposable mobile number

Sometimes you can tell by talking to them but the ones that really do the damage are 'nice people' with a good story

The easiest ones to spot are those who choose gift wrapping and message to a child saying Happy Birthday but include garments in various sizes from 0-12 years!

[itaufait]

What are the police funded to investigate?

Unfortunately these cases are very expensive to investigate, and quite a lot of the time the forensic evidence is just not there. Also, as soon as you hit an IP block which is out of the jurisdiction, there's pretty much nothing the police can do.

[hantastic]

Do you have AVS and CV2 checking enabled on your merchant account? This will check a customers address against the 3-digit security number and check for fraud.

If you aren't sure you should phone up your merchant and ask.