Darren, banning those members is ridiculous!

[kimmrunner]

And this matter deserves a publc debate

Dear UKBF members,

It has come to my attention that the founding members of a recently established business forum are using UKBF to recruit new members to their site.

The founding members were previously very active on UK Business Forums, so I'm sure you'll all understand that this situation isn't acceptable. As such we have been forced to take the decision to issue bans to these members.

How do you think most of us got here darren? telepathy? or is it because we are members of other forums!! and other people on those forums suggested we come here!!

If you want the BENEFIT of people promoting THIS forum elswhere, then accept the consequence that other forums will also be mentioned.

My view on this is that the founders of the other forum have a gripe with how UKBF is managed. I've had (what I thought were positive) conversations with these people in the past and explained my thoughts and views, and how decisions are taken on UKBF.

I find their actions extremely disappointing as our approach to UKBF's ongoing development is, and always will be, based on trying to get a consensus amongst the members using this site ... not the vocal views of a relatively small group of members.

It also appears that they disagree with our approach to moderation on UKBF. I firmly believe that tight moderation on a business forum is essential to keeping discussions focused, professional and, above all, useful to UKBF members.

If those people want a different type of forum, good luck to them

And if their offering is more popular than UKBF....then start to look at your rules.

The members you mentioned have contributed a lot to this forum - and in the end, the asset you bought and own and value in 6 figures, is the net sum value of the contributors!!!, alienate them and you have no forum

At the end of the day, as with all things, it is your choice as to which forums you visit and why - and in the online world this will always be the case. UK Business Forums will always strive to maintain a high level of professionalism and respect (alongside Time Out, of course, where you can kick back and let off steam!) - I sincerely hope that this ethos is one that you appreciate.

Finally, I would kindly ask that if you receive an invitation through UKBF to join another forum, please forward it to my Private Message inbox - your confidence is assured.

And it was nazism that promoted the idea, of ratting on others!

If you have any further thoughts on this, again please do drop me a PM.

Kind regards,
Darren Falkingham
UKBF Chairman

__________________

[10 Yetis]

Hope this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spYcp0ZB4nM) helps clear things up...

[alloageorge]

competition is healthy.i would think nothing of contacting a rivals employees and offering them a pay rise to come and work for me.i would also think nothing of contracting out work to the same rivals.its called business.

[Alice3537]

competition is healthy.i would think nothing of contacting a rivals employees and offering them a pay rise to come and work for me.i would also think nothing of contracting out work to the same rivals.its called business.

Would you also welcome your rival standing outside your shop (for example) handing out leaflets promoting theirs? :D

[Gillie]

Strikes and bans are given when members: post inappropriate content; spam the forums; send unsolicited Private Messages; or otherwise abuse the Rules of the forum.

Any strikes or bans given are not to be discussed on the forum. Such matters shall remain private between UKBF and the member. Questions or comments concerning warnings, strikes or bans will be conveyed through e-mail or Private Messages.

'Strikes' are given against a member's account for the reasons mentioned above. Strikes expire after six months. Automatic 6 month bans are imposed if UKBF members reach 3 concurrent 'strikes'. Persistent misuse of UKBF will result in a permanent ban.

Its in the terms of use that no one ever reads, so you accept this when joining, so you aint got a leg to stand on when you don't comply!

Simple as!

[Duke Fame]

And this matter deserves a publc debate


Although, sadly we have not seen the back of this issue....

Dear UKBF members,

It has come to my attention that the founding members of a recently established business forum are using UKBF to recruit new members to their site.

The founding members were previously very active on UK Business Forums, so I'm sure you'll all understand that this situation isn't acceptable. As such we have been forced to take the decision to issue bans to these members.

How do you think most of us got here darren? telepathy? or is it because we are members of other forums!! and other people on those forums suggested we come here!!

Hmmmm? google, (it's number one?), recommendations? NOT SPAMMING THOUGH! Which the aforesaid members have been known to complain about in the past?
__________________


:redface::redface::redface::redface::redface:

[ken_uk]

Any strikes or bans given are not to be discussed on the forum. Such matters shall remain private between UKBF and the member. If thats the case, why is the reason for the ban posted in public for all to see?

Names not mentioned, but I can guess at at least one name, all people need to do, is see if a long standing member is banned as of today, to see if they were banned for that reason. Therefore, it did not remain private, and was a breach of the rules...

[Comspec]

Honestly I think that Darren was pushed into a corner, and had to act. He has done what he thought was best for the remaining community, and that is fine by me. I know that Ozzy would have taken action, just as Darren has done, and maybe we should consider the fact that there might have been more going on than we all know about.....

One of the banned members has done nothing but stir things for the past couple of weeks, whilst the others have all but left anyway. Where is the problem?

I must admit to missing the little fellah, I got on quite well with him.

[An Oasis]

I feel really left out not only have I not been approached with a view to being poached neither have I received a PM to advise me that I might be approached to be poached.

We have chickens in the back garden does this help.:| Or am I an unknowing grand master above approach.:D

[Comspec]

Your geneticly modified avatars just scare them ;)

[Blush]

If this was your business what would you do? You would protect it wouldn't you!
I have no argument with anyone but it is usually common practice for forums not to allow any promotion of any other fourms in direct competition to themselves, its common sense really

[maria102]

We have chickens in the back garden does this help.:|

Only up the road and I had no idea this was going on.....you just don't know who to trust do you? :cool:

[alloageorge]

Alice.if their leaflet says they will charge less than me then i will hire them to work for me and keep the difference.or drop my prices.or hire thugs.

[sm1]

What a debate.... Rules are rules, just like the law is the law!!

That's all from the 16 year old - without being *****y who was it that got banned??

[Steve Cool]

anyway i just forgot about my ebay bid with reading this post and lost out on a very rare motorcycle part, by 50p.:mad:

come one, who's banned? I guess Ray B is one???

Steve

[sm1]

Really?! :shock:

[ken_uk]

They should have just posted in the press release section announcing the new forum, as the rule is no one can say anything negative about anything posted in the press release section....

[Gillie]

Round,
Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On an ever-spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain
Or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel thats turning
Running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes on its face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind

[nicola jane]

One of the banned members has done nothing but stir things for the past couple of weeks, whilst the others have all but left anyway. Where is the problem?[/quote]

Being quite new to this forum I dont think I know who the now banned members are (Maybe I will note them by their future absence as I have been following closely for the last few weeks)

I will say that on several occasions I have found some of the comments very uncomfortable reading and hope that my future experience here will be very different. Maybe I'm wrong but on several threads I really didn't 'dare' comment myself incase I was also shot down in the way I have seen recently.

That said and with no other information, except for having faith in the moderators decisons, I hope I will enjoy my time here and hope the forum goes from strength to strength.

[ADW]

Don't know exactly what happened but after having a little look around I found the possible banned members on a forum which I will not name for obvious reasons but it doesn't appear to have anything to do with them as it is established. Still none the wiser to what happened but there seems to be a lot of cloak and dagger stuff going on. If they want a forum that isn't moderated then fair enough go elsewhere.

[ADW]

Seen the new forum now and can't say I am surprised they have been banned. I guess they had no intention of coming back anyway. Looks like they have been around a few different forums ready to tout for members.

[quikshop]

I don't think the ukbusinessforums has anything to fear from other forums.

I belong to several including a couple on the other side of the pond (US, not the Wirral :p) and yet another business forum will have no impact on members using this one as well or instead.

[PI Guy]

If this was your business what would you do? You would protect it wouldn't you!
I have no argument with anyone but it is usually common practice for forums not to allow any promotion of any other fourms in direct competition to themselves, its common sense reallywhere's the threat?

[Gillie]

When does news become old news??

The Managment of this place have made a decision and its their perogative to do so after all they own the place!

Therefore, why the hell are we still debating it??

Its past boring now!!!!!!!!

[kimmrunner]

If they want a forum that isn't moderated .
I think you will find that is a piece of convenient " misinformation"

[kimmrunner]

I don't think the ukbusinessforums has anything to fear from other forums.

I belong to several including a couple on the other side of the pond (US, not the Wirral :p) and yet another business forum will have no impact on members using this one as well or instead.

That is the point!!! - so why are UKBF so twitchy??? there always will be other forums ...lots of them and almost everyone is a member of several.

It interests me that at least one other forum was set up by less than clandestine promotion on UKBF....so why pick this one out for special treatment.

[Patsygirl]

I must say that I think this site tends to be run by what I see as dictators, and I want to remind everyone on it, and who run the site that we in the UK are a free democracy and if people who run ANY website feel they cannot allow FREE debate, or private messages then I feel that the site ought to shut down.
I am quite a new member myself, I dont normaly get involved in any debate, but I do hear of more people being offended on this site than ANY I have ever been on.
If any website is set up to allow a debate and people have different views from the owners, then if they cannot stand the heat, they ought to get out of the kitchen I feel.
My father was in the Russian Convoys fighting for FREEDOM for the UK, and I hate anyone telling others what they are allowed to say.
O well thats it, I suppose I am band yes? if I am, then lots of others will I know very soon be following me too.
Yours faithfully,
Patsy.

[kimmrunner]

Strikes and bans are given when members: post inappropriate content; spam the forums; send unsolicited Private Messages; or otherwise abuse the Rules of the forum.

Any strikes or bans given are not to be discussed on the forum. Such matters shall remain private between UKBF and the member. Questions or comments concerning warnings, strikes or bans will be conveyed through e-mail or Private Messages.

'Strikes' are given against a member's account for the reasons mentioned above. Strikes expire after six months. Automatic 6 month bans are imposed if UKBF members reach 3 concurrent 'strikes'. Persistent misuse of UKBF will result in a permanent ban.

Its in the terms of use that no one ever reads, so you accept this when joining, so you aint got a leg to stand on when you don't comply!

Simple as!

Rules are made for the obedience of fools.....

Point I am making is rules dont have to be enforced.

And as regards how that post applies to this thread. I didnt put this in then public domain. Darren did and not only did that, but also made it a sticky post so it would become public!! - and thus becomes fodder for a good discussion IMHO.

Anyway..... Better things to do.....like go to my other forums.

[Gillie]

Hang on, when you join you agree to abide by the rules, if you don't like em why the hell are you here??

[Steve Cool]

why the hell are you here??

I thought you were bored with this thread?

Steve

[kimmrunner]

Hang on, when you join you agree to abide by the rules, if you don't like em why the hell are you here??

I didnt say, I didnt like them!
And I didnt say I didnt agree.

And if this is becoming BORING
why is Gillie still here....it is way past her bed time....go have a jamesons and calm down.

BTW....you dont actually READ the rules do you gillie? You anorak!!

[Gillie]

Its repetitive and serves no purpose other than letting some people go on and on and on and on about a subject thats between the banned members and the management. End of!

[Dawg]

I must say that I think this site tends to be run by what I see as dictators, and I want to remind everyone on it, and who run the site that we in the UK are a free democracy and if people who run ANY website feel they cannot allow FREE debate, or private messages then I feel that the site ought to shut down.

So you want to forcibly shut something down in your "free democracy"?
(Which in itself is a curious claim, but debating the niceties of political theory is for another place.)

I am quite a new member myself, I dont normaly get involved in any debate, but I do hear of more people being offended on this site than ANY I have ever been on.

ANY? (Or should that be ANY?????!!!!!) Does this mean you are an active member of The Mothers Union forum only? Even The Womens' Institute play rough.

If any website is set up to allow a debate and people have different views from the owners, then if they cannot stand the heat, they ought to get out of the kitchen I feel.

Yes; and..?

My father was in the Russian Convoys fighting for FREEDOM for the UK, and I hate anyone telling others what they are allowed to say.

Was he aboard the HMS Non Sequitur?

O well thats it, I suppose I am band yes? if I am, then lots of others will I know very soon be following me too.
Yours faithfully,
Patsy.

Please stay, you've only just arrived.

[kimmrunner]

Its repetitive and serves no purpose other than letting some people go on and on and on and on about a subject thats between the banned members and the management. End of!


Coming to which. I am trying to remember who told ME about the OTHER forum. I know it was someone on here...
....trouble is I am getting too old, and Ive got a crap memory, so I couldnt rat even if I wanted to...now lets think.

Naahh....Its gone. Shame.

You are right, it is getting repetitive

The ONLY thing I was trying to say to darren was, UKBF needs to consider it is part of a network and not an island all by itself...and IMHO will get on better if it accepts all its members come and go elsewhere - so a witchunt every time a new forum sets up is somewhat pointless....chances are the other forum will never reach a critical mass, and if it does it could make a better ally than enemy.

And that was all.......

[Alex Bellinger]

I've been using Forums for a very long time. Way before I started frequenting small biz forums, I used to belong to a chess forum, an electronic music forum, and a even a podcast forum. God, i sound like the geek I am ;)

Anyway ... in my experience sooner or later some faction gets unhappy and breaks off or the moderator has to clamp down. Moderation is absolutely vital on a forum. So are factions, breakaways, flame wars, community, rules and forgiveness.

The beauty of communities on the web is that they are free to swarm wherever they like. It's no big deal.

For the record, this is one of the best, least spammy, well moderated, useful and civilised forums I've ever had the pleasure of taking part in.

Cheers

Alex

[kimmrunner]

I must say that I think this site tends to be run by what I see as dictators, and I want to remind everyone on it, and who run the site that we in the UK are a free democracy and if people who run ANY website feel they cannot allow FREE debate, or private messages then I feel that the site ought to shut down.
I am quite a new member myself, I dont normaly get involved in any debate, but I do hear of more people being offended on this site than ANY I have ever been on.
If any website is set up to allow a debate and people have different views from the owners, then if they cannot stand the heat, they ought to get out of the kitchen I feel.
My father was in the Russian Convoys fighting for FREEDOM for the UK, and I hate anyone telling others what they are allowed to say.
O well thats it, I suppose I am band yes? if I am, then lots of others will I know very soon be following me too.
Yours faithfully,
Patsy.

As a new member I can tell you patsy, this forum has without doubt the best quality information post and help of any business forum. ( with the exception of the legal forum which tends to be wall to wall pitching - ie spam)

You need to accept too, that some people on the forum enjoy a good verbal punchup too (not me of course!???) , and that gives the forum character!

So stick around.

The mods do a good job (by and large) which keeps the forum mainly spam free. its a tedious job and I commend them for it.

And the owners have a tough job when it comes to an argument over franchises. They got nasty legal threats.

As a long standing member, I simply pointed out to the owners, that I think they are over reacting in this case, since the net impact of all that has gone on is Nada. Nothing. Zip.

UKBF has too many members and toomuch traffic for one or two posters to make any difference. So why do they bother with a witchunt.

[confused]

ok who has a link to this new forum? I want to see what I'm missing

[telemax]

I've looked around numerous other forums, and none of them come anywhere near to comparing with this one.

I just don't understand how this could be a threat to UKBF?

[UKSMF]

I am sorry but I am also with many others here.

I frequent at least 6 different forums and I even own my own too and I have a number of members that also frequent a number of forums.

I think that UKBF is one of the best if not the best I have ever been a member of.

Sorry just my 2 pennies worth.

Regards

Dave

[kimmrunner]

I am sorry but I am also with many others here.

I frequent at least 6 different forums and I even own my own too and I have a number of members that also frequent a number of forums.

I think that UKBF is one of the best if not the best I have ever been a member of.

Sorry just my 2 pennies worth.

Regards

Dave

So why does that make you sorry?? Sounds fine to me.

[Comspec]

One last attempt before bed (or before I put Mr Wordpress through the window) :)

The situation in question is not like the others you are all describing. This is not some simple pitching of a new forum. This is the way I see this.....

This one developed out of a few people trying to change the fundamental way UKBf works, and its core values. Then when this wasn't happening, they chose to go set up their own forum (after trying out another one (or 2?)).

This is fine in itself, but then there seemed to be a concerted effort to try to make people move to the new forum, a choice they seemed to have to make really - like a them & us thing - and not by the normal means.

This was all punctuated by some members, who obviously batted for the new forum, constantly being hostile and trying to score points in normal info threads.

Added to that some personal insults flying around, and slagging on other sites, etc - and you have a situation which imho the management could no longer tolerate.

If it was my forum, I'd have had the red cards out a fortnight ago (maybe not all the same people, but then I only know what I saw, and some of them never bothered me at all).

This discussion is pointless, and another misuse of forum & our time really. The mgt made their choice, and some will support it, some won't - they have the right to their choice though, so lets drop it and move on.

No offence Patsy, you have made 2 posts on this forum, and unless you have been an ardent watcher of the antics, I do not feel you have enough information to be coming up with such negative opinions. You will find that people tend to be negative if they think you haven't done your homework.

Thats me rant over, still in "I hate blogging" mode, but am off to bed. :)

[Rob Holmes]

<< Moved to Feedback & Help Forums >>

Other forums have been around way before UKBF and more and more are setting up each day - this is not the problem. If you search back far enough in the UKBF posts you'll see members asking for recomendations of other similar forums with a host of links to them. I think this got overabused a couple of years back and the rules were tightened.

What is a problem is when members start abusing the private messaging system and sending unsolicited PM's to other members in order to try and convince them that they should be joining their forum.

People don't like spam in their email inbox and these PM's are just the equivalent to exactly that.

If people try to abuse our members in this way and the mods just left it then we would be accused of either not caring, approving of their actions by ignoring them and allowing them to carry on, or both.

So I prefer the way taken of ensuring members aren't spammed, by Chinese Fake-Nike sales people, other forum owners with a chip on their shoulder or anyone else for that matter.

I'm really sure the vast majority of UKBF Members appreciate being protected from spam and don't want to get embroilled in other peoples fights.

Rob

[Rusty]

The situation in question is not like the others you are all describing. This is not some simple pitching of a new forum. This is the way I see this.....

This one developed out of a few people trying to change the fundamental way UKBf works, and its core values. Then when this wasn't happening, they chose to go set up their own forum (after trying out another one (or 2?)).

This is fine in itself, but then there seemed to be a concerted effort to try to make people move to the new forum, a choice they seemed to have to make really - like a them & us thing - and not by the normal means.

This was all punctuated by some members, who obviously batted for the new forum, constantly being hostile and trying to score points in normal info threads.

Added to that some personal insults flying around, and slagging on other sites, etc - and you have a situation which imho the management could no longer tolerate.

Never was a truer word spoken.

There is absolutely nothing wrong being a member of different forums, especially if you are in business, every little helps. In fact, there are several members on here who have their own forum linked to in their sig. Nothing wrong with that and perfectly acceptable.

As Comspec said, this situation was entirely different and the people concerned behaved (IMHO) in an extremely underhand and nasty way, especially given the way Darren has continuously endeavoured to meet the needs and wants of all the members on UKBF.

Kerry

[ADW]

I think you will find that is a piece of convenient " misinformation"

You are right. I was talking about the other forum they all joined before launching as that one is openly a free for all so my apologies.

[Rhyl Lightworks]

This is interesting. I posted a pm to one of the supposedly banned members a couple of days ago, asking for a quote on some printing I want doing. I wondered why I had not had a reply and, having read this thread, now find he is no longer a member.
I do not intend chasing this person over other forums or where-ever, so he has already lost some potential business as a result of being banned.
Incidentally, if there are any printers on here who would like to quote for one or two thousand NCR 2 part invoices and some business cards (I have the artwork) please pm me.
Barrie

[awebapart.com]

And it was nazism that promoted the idea, of ratting on others!
Oh how this thread has followed Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law) - the rule which states that as a discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler gets higher. I'm just very surprised that the comparison arose in the very first post (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=468863) of this thread!

Yes there is freedom of speech to consider, but I also have no interest whatsoever in participating in a forum where people can freely spam others or where moderation is not present (those sort of forums just wont work IMO), so keep up the good moderating work UKBF. I think the UKBF do a very good job of moderating this forum.

As for underhand techniques used for promoting another forum, I do not understand why this was done when there are plenty of other more subtle, more open, better ways that a new forum could have been promoted on this forum, which could have abided by this forum's terms and conditions (e.g. press release, links in signatures, hyperlinks in posts to related content), which could have kept everyone happy with a win-win situation.

[DuaneJackson]

I was going to post my opinion, but comspec pretty much summed it up above. But in addition....

There's no over-zelous censorship on this site. If there was, this thread wouldn't still be running.

The guys that have been banned were a very vocal minority here. Virtually all of the disagreements here on how the forums have been run can be traced back to a small handulf of individuals. There's no problem with other sites being linked to and recommended, etc. There are plenty of threads recommending other forums.

The issue here is that a few members were openly abusing UKBF by PMing people to promote their new forum - both newbies here and established members. This isn't speculation, it's fact. They have an area on their own forum that they I think they think is private (invite only), but due to a configuration error I've been able to read the posts there.

I doubt Sift see the other forum as a threat, but I don't see why they should stand for the behaviour being exhibited (ie, deliberatley causing arguments here then saying "hey, come to our place where there are no arguments"). Bottom line is it's out of order.

I genuinely hope that their pawn becomes a queen in time, but I'm sure they can get there without being unethical and abusing other forums.

[brownie]

Those complaining about the censorship/moderation in these forums clearly have little experience in using other forums.

[Calibre Designs]

I doubt Sift see the other forum as a threat, but I don't see why they should stand for the behaviour being exhibited (ie, deliberatley causing arguments here then saying "hey, come to our place where there are no arguments"). Bottom line is it's out of order. In Rays own words on this subject:
[ quote removed - DuaneJackson]



Hi Duane,

Mixture of feelings from everyone on this thread. Its just human nature I guess.

I am sure that lots more has been said behind the scenes. You quoting a single sentence would allow the situation to be taken out of context. I am not saying that this is happening here. I don't know. Its just a possibility. Without allowing members to consider the whole picture, this will always be the case.

Besides, if you are naming individual members then at least allow them to defend themselves. The argument will always be one sided imo. If this is not going to be the case then I suggest we keep names under cover.

Just my thoughts on this thats all.

Kay

[maria102]

I didn't bother watching the telly last night, just tuned in here..:D

[DuaneJackson]

Hi Kay,

Good point. I'll remove my quotes.

It's an open secret who the main person is, so I don't see any problem in naming him.

[Calibre Designs]

Thanks Duane!

[Boxby]

If this was your business what would you do? You would protect it wouldn't you!
I have no argument with anyone but it is usually common practice for forums not to allow any promotion of any other fourms in direct competition to themselves, its common sense really


I have regularly seen posts by other forum owners, who use their forum link in their signature on UKBF. Asking for advice about techincal issues, programming issues etc, discussing SEO, spidering of forums, etc etc etc.

Does this the ban mean that these members are also no longer allowed to Post?

[DuaneJackson]

I have regularly seen posts by other forum owners, who use their forum link in their signature on UKBF. Asking for advice about techincal issues, programming issues etc, discussing SEO, spidering of forums, etc etc etc.

Does this the ban mean that these members are also no longer allowed to Post?

There's no problem with other sites being linked to and recommended, etc. There are plenty of threads recommending other forums.

The issue here is that a few members were openly abusing UKBF by PMing people to promote their new forum

Hopefully that answers this for you.

[ImproveSearchListings]

They simply didn't want me - no PM :(.

I wouldn't have gone anyway, but it hurts when you aren't invited to the party......

[Dawg]

They simply didn't want me - no PM :(.

I wouldn't have gone anyway, but it hurts when you aren't invited to the party......

Don't worry. They didn't invite me either, or Mr Oasis. No secret squirrell PMs, no 'lets be best friends', nada.
And I so wanted to be friends with a green businessman who drives a yellow Merc sports. Life is so cruel.

[Games4Business]

Fun and games. To be honest, to know a forum you must be on a forum. Word of mouth has to come from somewhere and I'm surprised that this thread has continued and should have been closed from the first posting, rather than turning this into entertainment. What has been done has been done. Close it or remove it and move on people. Why bring in people to the discussion that knew nothing of what has gone on, it's just not good for business? or is it...

[Scott-SCD]

I received the message from a friend of mine so I didn't see an harm in it, certainly didn't consider it unsolicited, it was part of a PM conversation we were having.

I think it's fair enough that the rules have to be enforced when matters like this arise. However I'm just wondering if the people involved were messaged and told to stop, but then continued and were therefore banned?

It seems to me like this sudden ban was more of a punishment than anything else. I think it's worked more against UKBF as a community by taking away at least one very valuable member who provided a lot of help, advice and discussions.

Did the people involved get suitable warnings first?

[dave_n]

i've been out of the loop for a while....and without sounding lazy can anyone fill me in as to whats happened....in 50 words or less!

[HC-Martin]

Close it or remove it and move on people.

The problem with this is everytime a thread like this pops up and it's locked and people still want to have their say - they just start another thread that just prolongs the pain for the rest of us.

I think it's good that this thread has been allowed to continue, so people can say what they think. Otherwise, if closed, it would just begin somewhere else. Once people have said all they need to, the thread will die off and those that don't want to read it don't have to.

Constantly closing threads because people don't want to discuss things is pointless IMHO, people just bring it up elsewhere!

Sorry - just my 2p.

[DuaneJackson]

I received the message from a friend of mine so I didn't see an harm in it, certainly didn't consider it unsolicited, it was part of a PM conversation we were having.

I think it's fair enough that the rules have to be enforced when matters like this arise. However I'm just wondering if the people involved were messaged and told to stop, but then continued and were therefore banned?

It seems to me like this sudden ban was more of a punishment than anything else. I think it's worked more against UKBF as a community by taking away at least one very valuable member who provided a lot of help, advice and discussions.

Did the people involved get suitable warnings first?

Hi Scott,

Theres no implication that it was unsolicited. It was just systematic recruitment of people from here to join another forum.

It certainly wasn't a sudden ban. The person in question was being rather duplicitous in my opinion. By having friendly conversations with myself, other mods and Sift implying one thing and then posting on the other forum (in what he thought was private) basically suggesting that he was playing everyone to his own end.


The problem with this is everytime a thread like this pops up and it's locked and people still want to have their say - they just start another thread that just prolongs the pain for the rest of us.

I think it's good that this thread has been allowed to continue, so people can say what they think. Otherwise, if closed, it would just begin somewhere else. Once people have said all they need to, the thread will die off and those that don't want to read it don't have to.

Constantly closing threads because people don't want to discuss things is pointless IMHO, people just bring it up elsewhere!

Sorry - just my 2p.

I agree totally.

[Markb]

They simply didn't want me - no PM :(.

I wouldn't have gone anyway, but it hurts when you aren't invited to the party......


I wouldn't worry about it. The members concerned are so far up their own a***s it must be like living in constant darkness. Regardless of the rights and wrongs regarding their bans it'll make a welcome change to read posts they haven't artificially extended with their banal comments.

[dave_n]

erm...what happened?

[reggiemental]

Someone got banned. :eek:

[DuaneJackson]

erm...what happened?


Don't be lazy. You're as bad as my better half getting of the laptop an hour into the film and saying "so what's happening then?" : )

[Games4Business]

You have a point there. But it does get a bit boring after a while :) I'm sure people have better things to do, like running or discussing business. Having a concentrated thread just keeps fueling it, but I guess a point needs to be made, and this thread will eventually die out and be forgotten.

The problem with this is everytime a thread like this pops up and it's locked and people still want to have their say - they just start another thread that just prolongs the pain for the rest of us.

I think it's good that this thread has been allowed to continue, so people can say what they think. Otherwise, if closed, it would just begin somewhere else. Once people have said all they need to, the thread will die off and those that don't want to read it don't have to.

Constantly closing threads because people don't want to discuss things is pointless IMHO, people just bring it up elsewhere!

Sorry - just my 2p.

[HC-Martin]

But it does get a bit boring after a while

Yes it does. But I feel the reason it keeps coming up is because threads are closed before people have finished saying what they want to say - so when another similar one pops up, it all starts again! :(

[AdamW]

which seems pointless to me. Banning happens. New forums happen. Lets everyone just move on. Just my thoughts of course.

[stugster]

Do we not have businesses to run?

[Scott-SCD]

That's fair enough really. I just think UKBF has done more harm to itself by doing it this way. If they were told to stop and they did then UKBF would still have the input of those members without the PM spam. If they're banned then UKBF will have lost those additional (quite valuable) members of the community, and probably alienated a few more of the other forums members too.



It certainly wasn't a sudden ban. The person in question was being rather duplicitous in my opinion. By having friendly conversations with myself, other mods and Sift implying one thing and then posting on the other forum (in what he thought was private) basically suggesting that he was playing everyone to his own end.

[Gillie]

Scott I refer you to Comspec's answer on this topic ... it explains it!

[danmaull]

are these people banned forever?

[Carl-CSNM]

are these people banned forever?

I hope so. :)

[Carl-CSNM]

That's fair enough really. I just think UKBF has done more harm to itself by doing it this way. If they were told to stop and they did then UKBF would still have the input of those members without the PM spam. If they're banned then UKBF will have lost those additional (quite valuable) members of the community, and probably alienated a few more of the other forums members too.

They've been at it for weeks taking the p**s, IMO it's about time something was done about them. I'd hardly call their posts valuable either.

[Scott-SCD]

I haven't noticed anything like this myself, I must take more notice at times :p

Does anyone have any examples of what's been going on they can show or send me? I'd like to have the correct viewpoint of all this.

They've been at it for weeks taking the p**s, IMO it's about time something was done about them. I'd hardly call their posts valuable either.

[Calibre Designs]

They've been at it for weeks taking the p**s, IMO it's about time something was done about them. I'd hardly call their posts valuable either.


Just returned home to catch up with this thread.


"Their quotes valuable" ?? Can you please mention some names to me please either here or by PM.

As far as I have found, every member on here that gives advice is valuable.

[Matt1959]

this issue is never going to be put to bed as members that belong to one or the other or both forums will have their own agendas when posting here. Myself, I'm one that wasn't invited and I wouldn't have joined had I been.

However, it was very easy to go there and have a read within a couple of days of the new place being set up and certainly there are strong feelings from a cross section of people that have joined about what UKBF is all about and most of it is negative - you just need to read the little comments that get dropped in.

Seems to me, we should take a leaf out their book and get the PR machine in motion and get welcoming new members to here and encourage them to post so this place can continue to grow. The Internet is open to all and in the words of a certain marketing man, "you can't wall garden the internet". In the end, people will gravitate to the place that best serves them, much the same as in business - so its the best Forum that wins and all that:)

[Boxby]

I feel quite sad when new members come on and in they're first thread they're ambushed. So people ask silly questions - that the point. Everyone here is an expert on something, and a question to one person that seems ridiculously obvious may be someone else be the thing that's kept them awake at night worrying about.

Forums are supposed to be about sharing information, and I think at time there is an inclination to "tell" or "lecture" or "correct" rather than to "assist" or "help".

I came to this forum with absolutely zilch SEO knowledge, until this week I couldn't even access my website to correct the faults. And I know that I ask questions in this area that seem so very very basic to other members. I have received the odd "terse" reply to questions posted, which then deters me from asking other questions.

There is nothing personal when someone starts a thread. They are not asking (maybe sometimes obvious questions) in order to upset people, it is simply information that they are after. OK, yes, we all get fed up with the "Can you do my homework for me" questions, but please remember that not everyone in business has the same skills set.

My husband has run his own business for over 20years, a sucessful, profitable and sustained business in a very fluid market. But he can't write an email, he can't write a letter on word, doens't know what Excel is, and is not exactly sure where "f" is on the keyboard, and has only recently learnt how to get the search results he wants out of google! If he came here to ask advice on such as basic question as these things, at present, I can't feel confident that he wouldn't receive some of the "go away and come back when .........." kind of answers.

It's very easy to be authoritative in the areas that you know about, but I feel that people come to forums to share and to ask, for suggestions, not lectures and dressing downs. The forum should be proud that people can come here and ask the obvious questions.

Anyway, my 2p, the one that GB has not taken off me for a litre of fuel!!

Sandra

[stugster]

Sandra,

You make bl**dy brilliant points. And I'll admit to being one of those people who are quick to lecture or correct. Having said that, I only do so in a manner that I hope will help the individual to improve, or to push their business forward in a professional manner.

The irony is, I'm probably the example of how NOT to do it! :D

[Boxby]

I myself have a tendancy to be a bossy c*w, and so have to temper it. There are a few times that I hit the cancel button and decide not to post, as I realise that I am posting more because there is something that i want to say, rather than to answer the question raised.:rolleyes:

[UKSMF]

Great points raised here and so valid (Sandra) the forum is a place that is here for help not for slating or arguing. I myself have a very active role in a number of forums and each one has its own merit.

UKBF is one of my favourites and it is the people that use it that make it what it is.

My other 2p's worth

Dave

[andysv1k]

So where's the "other" place then? someone cough up. it would be nice to see the other side of the story.

Andy.

[Jason Amison]

Even though I am new, I would like to say something.

I've seen on many forums, where users can be registered for months, even years and still be a spammer. Even if they take an active part in the forum, it doesn't mean they are the only exceptions -- and are allowed to break any of the rules.

Regards Jason :)

[SillyJokes]

Boo Hoo, they didn't invite me, sob, what did I do, what did I say? Could they sense my total indifference?

[AtoZ]

Boo Hoo, they didn't invite me, sob, what did I do, what did I say? Could they sense my total indifference?

The need for more banter seemed important, perhaps you didn't tell enough silly jokes?

[Markb]

The need for more banter seemed important

That was part of the problem - they all seemed to like making posts containing only a couple of words and a smiley and assume it was wit. Only half wit really - all it did was push their post count up for no good reason other than they liked the sound of their own posts:D

[HC-Martin]

That was part of the problem - they all seemed to like making posts containing only a couple of words and a smiley and assume it was wit. Only half wit really - all it did was push their post count up for no good reason other than they liked the sound of their own posts:D

I agree - It all got a bit much really.

Am I right in thinking we're talking about the uk small business focus forum?

Sorry if people don't want it mentioned - but they are a long way off being any sort of threat to UKBF!

[estwig]

Wrong forum mate, the forum in question is the..................

;)

[ADW]

HC - I think you are looking at the wrong forum unless that is a coded version. It is a new one that RayB has started.

I think the guys who have been banned will miss out as I think this site will be far busier and more business orientated where as right now the other site is a lot more banter/social orientated. I don't think there will be any long term conflict between these 2 sites once things settle down.

[HC-Martin]

Thanks to those that have PM'd me the right address, and sorry to those at UKSBF. Just looked at the new forum and just seen how many 'regulars' are on there!

[Top Hat]

If you want to find it google: 'Business Forum + a user name of one who has left'

[Calibre Designs]

You can argue that it would be unethical to quote it directly in public or by PM but saying it in this way also gets you there. I didn't want to be the first to say but its pretty damn obvious now.

How long will this thread stay open? Has anyone broken any rules by saying what they have just said?

[Hayles]

Personally I think it's a shame but hey ho... These things happen when there are lots of strong personalities in a confined space ;)

I missed all the fuss so not sure what went on. But, bottom line is that we've all signed up and accepted the rules of this forum so if we don't want to play by those rules we have to go elsewhere - which is what several have done. Simple really :)

I'll be in and out of both, as others are.

H

[pvcprinting]

Maybe it is simply a case of building your bridges to get over them?
I am sure that most of you have more important things to do than rant and wonder what other people are doing?

ultimatly, some of you dont put yourselves in a very good light....that is your decision as it is for those that chose to move over to the other forum

I have no beef with either with the exception that as somebody who is not business trained or knows much about IT I will as a consequance of some of the more recent posts on here consider my options as to what I post & where...that is my decision

Regards

Pete

[stugster]

I must admit though... They've done a fantastic job of taking crucial business questions, valid business points, and fantastic information, and then hiding it all in drivvel chat and gossip! Other than the regular forum members, how the heck is a new person going to find what they're looking for?! What a mess!

If I could thank myself, I would.

[stugster]

Glad it's not just me!

Just received a PM from a member about 2 minutes after posting my previous post:

"joined in march and agree with you...it's just a chat/banter forum...no business info or opportunities on there"

Oh dear!

[JustOneUK]

I must admit though... They've done a fantastic job of taking crucial business questions, valid business points, and fantastic information, and then hiding it all in drivvel chat and gossip! Other than the regular forum members, how the heck is a new person going to find what they're looking for?! What a mess!

If I could thank myself, I would.

That's funny.... although it's ironic just how two-faced a lot of people from here actually are.

I have no problem with there being lots of forums on the web - each will have their merits/pitfalls... but I don't like deception and can think of a lot of businesses that I now wouldn't trust or recommend anymore.

[stugster]

That's funny.... although it's ironic just how two-faced a lot of people from here actually are.


Why? Because I posted over there and gave a certain member words of encouragement? Doesn't change the fact of what I've said previously :)

P.S. I wouldn't really call it ironic... if you're talking about me personally.

[pvcprinting]

It really is amazing that in this democratic and free society how/why peope get so wound up in something so trivial

If you dont like it, you dont have to visit it.....I dont like Thai food, so as I have free choice I do not visit them.......same goes for forums......

[stugster]

If you want IRONY... Have a look at one post from the forum that shall not be named:

(Actually, again, not irony, more hypocrisy).

"As of now all discussion about other Forums will cease on *********.
If nobody objects I will also delete threads and posts referring to other Forums - and let's move on."


I can only assume that it's still okay to PM everyone from those forums when a new one pops up in a few months.

[Markb]

It really is amazing that in this democratic and free society how/why peope get so wound up in something so trivial

It's exactly because it is a democratic and free society that we are allowed to get wound up about whatever we want to.

[JustOneUK]

If you want IRONY... Have a look at one post from the forum that shall not be named:

(Actually, again, not irony, more hypocrisy).

"As of now all discussion about other Forums will cease on '**mystery forum**'.
If nobody objects I will also delete threads and posts referring to other Forums - and let's move on."


I can only assume that it's still okay to PM everyone from those forums when a new one pops up in a few months.

I agree, I saw that and laughed out loud ! :D

[pvcprinting]

It's exactly because it is a democratic and free society that we are allowed to get wound up about whatever we want to.

AGREED.....do you also allow to be wound up about other such trivial matters?

I would hate to think that the borough council do not paint yellow lines to your liking or that the trees starting to bud in the park are not doing it at a fast enough rate for you:D

[DuaneJackson]

If this thread goes downhill with silly personal comments then it will possibly get locked or deleted. Otherwsie I don't see any reason to lock it or delete it at the moment.

[stugster]

AGREED.....do you also allow to be wound up about other such trivial matters?

I would hate to think that the borough council do not paint yellow lines to your liking or that the trees starting to bud in the park are not doing it at a fast enough rate for you:D

Actually yes. We have yellow lines up here now, and parking meters.. Absolutely no reason for them other than the Council trying to grab more money from us hard-working punters. But if you want a full-blown "wind up" about that one, just google "Edinburgh Sh*tty Council"

[JustOneUK]

If this thread goes downhill with silly personal comments then it will possibly get locked or deleted. Otherwsie I don't see any reason to lock it or delete it at the moment.

I think it's done it's course. You should just delete it for the betterment of the forum.

If another one is opened..then let that one run for a while..then delete that too. Sooner or later we'll get bored of repeating ourselves and actually find some business stuff to discuss. :p

[stugster]

Sooner or later we'll get bored of repeating ourselves:p

You and I both know that's not true here! :)


But nah, I don't think the thread should be deleted. Get it back on track...

[ken_uk]

Near where I live, there is a fellow that hit the press by avoiding parking tickets because the yellow lines were not to his liking. He liked them painted legally, and many were not., so he got the fines voided due to technicalities...

[DuaneJackson]

If you want it deleted because it's now pointless, just stop posting to it and it'll sink away : )

[JustOneUK]

If you want it deleted because it's now pointless, just stop posting to it and it'll sink away : )

Nah... it's just turning funny rather than serious... it's like a "breaktime thread" :D.......

[Jenni@FarrantFrost]

If you want it deleted because it's now pointless, just stop posting to it and it'll sink away : )

Oh come on, like that's really going to happen? :p

[Markb]

I would hate to think that the borough council do not paint yellow lines to your liking or that the trees starting to bud in the park are not doing it at a fast enough rate for you:D

I'll be sure to let you know if any of that happens.

[KM-Tiger]

There are a few times that I hit the cancel button and decide not to post, as I realise that I am posting more because there is something that i want to say, rather than to answer the question raised.

Excellent advice, and the forum will be all the better for following it.

I'm sorry to have to break that rule in order to repeat it!

[JustOneUK]

Excellent advice, and the forum will be all the better for following it.

I'm sorry to have to break that rule in order to repeat it!

I'll break it too... If I had £1 for everytime I deleted something that I was about to post... I'd be RICH!!! :D:eek:

{oops shouldn't have posted this} ;)

[Jenni@FarrantFrost]

I'll break it too... If I had £1 for everytime I deleted something that I was about to post... I'd be RICH!!! :D:eek:


Woot-woohoo! It's not just me! :D

[maria102]

I'm sure that things will settle down soon, just wish that everyone would leave all the bitterness out.....the forums will probably just end up catering for different markets. I like the guys that are here and the guys that are there.......just a bit confused about the people with a foot in both camps, ie the "netural" ones, who post on the other forum referring to it as the "brighter side" etc, but then continue to come back to their "dark side"?

[stugster]

I'm sure that things will settle down soon, just wish that everyone would leave all the bitterness out.....the forums will probably just end up catering for different markets. I like the guys that are here and the guys that are there.......just a bit confused about the people with a foot in both camps, ie the "netural" ones, who post on the other forum referring to it as the "brighter side" etc, but then continue to come back to their "dark side"?

The force is strong in this one :p

[Markb]

The force is strong in this one :p


Stronger by the day she grows:D

[UKSMF]

I will be blunt -

Who gives a care in the world as to how many forums are out there. All of them serve a purpose and I say that as an avid poster on many forums and also as an owner of one too.

Networking in real time on forums really can benefit any person/business if it is done correctly. I have no problem with this or any other forum and I beleive that there is a lot of non relevant remarks being made.

At the end of the day there is another forum and I am sure it will have its place in the market. I stand by my word in saying that UKBF is a great resource for small business owners but there are also other forums that serve other purposes.

Who really cares about it if you dont want to join another forum then DONT simple as.

All this bickering just gives a very unprofessional view and to be honest I would only expect it back at school.

Rant over - Sorry guys but I think this should just be closed off and people should enjoy the forums they are a part of

Best Regards

Dave

[JustOneUK]

No one really cares... as no talking will change it. We're just discussing it as we would anything we can't change..fuel prices, inflation rates, etc

[UKSMF]

Fuel prices would be good lol.

Regards

Dave

[JustOneUK]

Well having the balls to hold back on a 2p rise until the Autumn is a bit bloody much considering they've already made it hit £1.10/litre where I live :)

[UKSMF]

108.9 here

Regards

Dave

[stugster]

"Thingssss can onlyy gettt betterrrrr!"


They were wrong.

[brownie]

They've done a fantastic job of taking crucial business questions, valid business points, and fantastic information, and then hiding it all in drivvel chat

The irony :p

[DuaneJackson]

The irony :p

There's obviously a demand for that sort of thing - as that group showed when they were here. There must be other like-minded individuals out there. So good luck to them. I'm sure it'll grow and prosper - it's a niche.

I don't think most people have any issue at all with there being yet another forum.

The issues have been with the way this site was systematically abused to recruit members for that site. And the duplicity and arroagance in apparently assuming others are idiots.

[brownie]

It was a weak and pathetic attempt at taking the micky out of stugster, mytchmac and justoneuk. :redface: :D

I have no issue with anybody, room for everyone. :)

[UKSMF]

Now that was mean :') lol

I see where you are coming from :@

Dave

[JustOneUK]

Can we just get back on topic please....

£1.10 is a bloody disgrace..what have you got to say about it... and what's your prediction for the price per litre in the Autumn BEFORE they add the extra 2p/litre?


:D



</pathetic attempt to get the thread locked/deleted>

[Dizzydiza]

just spent the last half hour speed reading this....well i didnt get an invite either :(
but then im not too sure who was banned....but there are a couple of obvious posters missing.....and i must admit i will miss their banter ....yes i could go to their forum but then i have little enough time as it is without joining another forum (fyi...this is a computer break...i was supposed to be updating my website)
oh well i guess you cant get on with everyone all of the time and these things will happen

[SillyJokes]

I'm feeling so old because I remember this almost exact same thing happening a couple of years ago. There were a bunch of people who liked nothing better than a good old chin wag and answered every single post on the forum with
...lol :p...

They got told off, started up a new forum and everyone was happy.

Strange though, that those who like a chat haven't found said forum and joined in there.

[Boxby]

108.9 here

Regards

Dave


Soooooooooooooo Cheap!!!!

£116.9 here!

[UKSMF]

Ow that is nasty

I think I would sell my car at that rate.

I hope that it comes down as opposed to up howvere it must be one of the easiest things to add tax to because of the counter argument

Ozone harming etc etc

Dave

[An Oasis]

Ferkin biggest money spinner they've got more like.

[lindasones]

Surely that is the way people network. Doesn't mean those people will no longer come to this site. I think you are a bit of a dog in a manger.

[Dawg]

Surely that is the way people network. Doesn't mean those people will no longer come to this site. I think you are a bit of a dog in a manger.

Just who is the dog in a manger? And how big is the bit that is in the manger?

And I think you are being doggist, Scotchy.

Yours, Dawg inna Manager.

[lindasones]

The bit in the manger is probably the best bit whatever that is! I may be slightly dogmatic perhaps.
scotchy

[FE]

On the other forum then its like any business. If you are successful you will always get staff leave and set up in competition and take a customer or two. This is why you have employment contracts with anti competition and in the case of forums you ban them and move on

On the debate on fuel then its bad. Our industry (Fleet Management) has been hit hard and the best way round it is buy bulk (i.e. Platts price + Surcharge) and pass that saving on to our customers. Problem is you can only do that for Limited companies as its a corporate rate

Nothing is simple but sometimes we make it a lot harder than it needs to be by debating too much

FE

[alloageorge]

i was asked if i wanted to appear in "police camera action" they were dedicating part of a programme to driver skills,or lack of them.they wanted a white van with driver.i was already booked up but through the kindness of my heart i put a message on a police camera action fans forum asking if anyone was interested.http://policecamaction.proboards46.com/.they banned me and accused me of spamming their site.my i.p. is banned for a month.
p.s. they have four members.
im going to miss that forum.

[sirearl]

i was asked if i wanted to appear in "police camera action" they were dedicating part of a programme to driver skills,or lack of them.they wanted a white van with driver.i was already booked up but through the kindness of my heart i put a message on a police camera action fans forum asking if anyone was interested.http://policecamaction.proboards46.com/.they banned me and accused me of spamming their site.my i.p. is banned for a month.
p.s. they have four members.
im going to miss that forum.

That is hysterical you must be the worlds worst spammer to spam all 4 members.:D:D:D:D:D

They may know a bit about camera's e.t.c

but it don't seem maths is there strong point.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Earl

[Police Camera Action]

That is hysterical you must be the worlds worst spammer to spam all 4 members.:D:D:D:D:D

They may know a bit about camera's e.t.c

but it don't seem maths is there strong point.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Earl

The misunderstanding came from the way the post was advertsied on the forum thats all, George, your IP address is now unblocked and you are more than welcome to continue posting.

I do appologise.

[alloageorge]

hooray.happy easter

[sirearl]

The famous five are back online.:rolleyes::D