Wat is the best ecommerce script?

[seokool]

Wat is the best ecommerce script?

[Leo-InstallingIT]

Hi

There will be no definitive answer to this question, it will all depend on your requirements.

If you could give us an idea what you are trying to do, we will be able to help you.

Many Thanks

Leo

[kierweb]

I can recommend x-cart which what I used to design the Carlisle Glass website

cglass.co.uk

[jofstar]

Couldn't agree more with the sentiment above.

If you are a retailer selling £1000,000 worth of goods per annum with a huge product range across many categories, you might need a far more robust solution the Open Commerce or Zen Cart (although both are great bits of software if implemented properly)

Likewise if you need a site design and you aren't competant in web development you need to think of the added cost this brings.

Another thing to consider is the integration of your Payment Service Provider, fulfilment, accounting etc into your final solution

Look around, use the comparison sites available and really think clearly about what your requirements are and how different solutions meet them

[awebapart.com]

There is no best ecommerce system, it depends so much on your particular requirements. We have a couple FAQ articles on our website, entitled best ecommerce solution (http://www.awebapart.com/home/faq/Best_ecommerce_solution) and best shopping cart (http://www.awebapart.com/home/faq/Best_shopping_cart), which explain this in more detail.

If you are asking for the best ecommerce script then you may already be limiting your choice, since not all solutions involve scripts, and the word 'script' can be a misnomer, since advanced ecommerce systems are more than just scripts, they are complex pieces of sofware. Some solutions do not even involve scripts like php, asp, etc and for some requirements, non-script solutions like PayPal buttons or Actinic might be the most appropriate solution.

[digitalgeek]

if you are looking for secure, state of the art solution with support covering custom needs then your choice is Intelex ecommerce

If you are looking for completely free software and you are able to manage bugs or improvements by yourself then your choice can be: OSCommerce or VirtueMart (needs Joomla CMS)

[radhika]

I recommend Oscommerce. It is free shopping cart with many customized templates around ebay for a price of pennies.

It also has easy user management.

.

[jamie1183]

I also like Oscommerce although I much prefer to use a custom developed script, we use Oscommerce or develop them in PHP it all depends on the needs of the clients but Oscommerce when configured correctly and a nice design implemented can be a very good option and as said above if you are not clear on how the design layout of Oscommerce works there are alot of really good templates around but Oscommerce is very simple to re-design once you know where the files hide.

[Steve2507]

I'd recommend VPASP (www.vpasp.com).

[TARMAG]

OS commerce, used it for the past 4 years on our electronic retail sites. Never had any issues with it!

[sm1]

We use Oscommerce. We had it customised.

[da8iwr]

Its always made me laugh at the people on this forum and is one of the reasons why i very rarely contribute towards any threads anymore, as for example people (so called web experts) always recomend oscommerce and its offshoots (zen carts, Cre Loaded, X Cart) with no reasons or constructive positives and negatives because they dont know any better.

For example

Oscommerce
Pros
Its a shop
easy to set up
Sort of user friendly

Cons
You cant add extra features suchs as forums, galleries, blogs etc unless it is added seperatly with a new database.
It is very dificult to modify unless your excellent in php
It is extremely poor in SEO
To add extra features it is core hacks not added scripts.
No growth prospects as you can add to it
Current version is the same since 17th aug 2006 (with 2 minor updates since then)

Virtuemart 1.1 and Joomla 1.5
Shop (http://demo.virtuemart.net/) - Admin (http://demo.virtuemart.net/administrator/)(goto components > Virtuemart to see the shop admin)
Pros
XHTML compliant
DDA compliant
Amazing SEO
Add unlimited pages
Intergrated login, logs you into the whole site including the shop, forums, gallery, blog any thing added at the same time
You can add any extra feature by simple one click install and it doesnt touch the core code, allowing updates to be easy and problem free
Download comprehensive templates from many shops that are full featured and W3 compliant Joomlart (http://www.joomlart.com/), Rocket Themes (http://www.rockettheme.com/) Etc.
Built in Blog
change the site with modules that are simple to use on/off bits.
Move content around by simple templates
Have seperate templates per category, page, etc.
I could keep going for ever here..

Cons
Takes a short time to get used to it, but there are many video tutorials (http://www.salyris.com/joomla_tutorial_center.html) to help, but once you get used to it, it is very simple.
I honestly cant think of any others

Please if your going to advise beginners, say why it is good, and not
"ive used it for 3 yrs"
"Oscommerce is best"
and if you have used nothing else, say
"ive used osc for 3 yrs but have nothing else to compare it against as ive used nothing else"

That at least shows the person asking for help honest and true advice.

[bumperman]

Interesting post from da8iwr but like most small owner managed businesses I'm looking for an ecommerce package that:

1. Runs "out of the box".
2. Is easy for a computer literate(but not techy) person to handle.
3. Has good documentation/support.
4. Has good SEO/payment features.
5. Has a lively user forum.
6. A package I can learn and 'grow' with (I plan to eventually have around 10,000 stock items on the system).

Is this too much to ask?

Thanks

John

[Steve2507]

Interesting post from da8iwr but like most small owner managed businesses I'm looking for an ecommerce package that:

1. Runs "out of the box".
2. Is easy for a computer literate(but not techy) person to handle.
3. Has good documentation/support.
4. Has good SEO/payment features.
5. Has a lively user forum.
6. A package I can learn and 'grow' with (I plan to eventually have around 10,000 stock items on the system).

Is this too much to ask?

Thanks

JohnAs I said before look at VPASP (www.vpasp.com (http://www.vpasp.com)).

[jamie1183]

Interesting post from da8iwr but like most small owner managed businesses I'm looking for an ecommerce package that:

1. Runs "out of the box".
2. Is easy for a computer literate(but not techy) person to handle.
3. Has good documentation/support.
4. Has good SEO/payment features.
5. Has a lively user forum.
6. A package I can learn and 'grow' with (I plan to eventually have around 10,000 stock items on the system).

Is this too much to ask?

Thanks

John

No not at all, alot of the out of box scripts will handle that amount of products, Oscommerce is as good as they come in my opinion, it is fairly user friendly, and easy to integrate payments, teh hard part for anyone who is not experienced in PHP or the way Oscommerce template work can be difficult to make look nice. There are alot of templates available but again they are not so easy to customise if you have no experience in PHP and CSS.

Another plus point on OScommerce is there are so many contributions available at the website so you can pretty much get a custom build of the script, and as it is opensource you are free to modify.

On the down side it can take a little time to setup if you don't know exactly how it works, things like setting up taxes, localization etc can be abit daunting if you have not done it before.

Personally I prefer custom built scripts, we build our own shopping carts in PHP, this just generally makes it more secure and alot easier for us to make modifications, also to develop a system exactly how the client wants, but if you are wanting a out of box script my recommendation would be Oscommerce for the amount of contributions and support available on their forum, you can pretty much search anything and fin the answer.

Hope this helps

[da8iwr]

As I said before look at VPASP (www.vpasp.com). (http://www.vpasp.com).)

I haven't ever used VSASP, so these are genuine question not rants


5. Has a lively user forum.
6. A package I can learn and 'grow' with (I plan to eventually have around 10,000 stock items on the system).


John specifically asked now for a system
that can grow and has a lively forum
can VSASP have a forum, gallery, blog, content for product reviews etc to be added that is integrated to the shop system database user section, so they wont need to have to sign up twice or more?

Same question to Jamie 1183 about osCommerce, as there maybe contributions available that I'm not aware of.

Also just clear up what a contribution (http://addons.oscommerce.com/) is
A contribution is a hack to the core code, not an addition to it, so it actually modifies the way the main code works. The only way this can be added is by literally going in at code level with something like Dreamweaver and changing the PHP code to work in a different way.

The problem is that an update for the shop code is often very very necessary for security reasons. Somebody may of found a way of hacking the code and then gaining access to it to do all sorts of naughty things. But an update basically over writes the existing code, it kind of refreshes it.

So if you have a site with many hacks that works with for example version 5, and then you update the core code to lets say version 6 or 7 to make it secure, you will over write all the hacks as well, which means you have to add them back in.

But.....

The contributions "hacks" are only produced to work on version "5", and as obviously the code has changed through the update, this means that there is a healthy chance even if you add in the hack again, it wont work, and may cause huge problems including more security holes.

Joomla on the other hand (not supporting them, just giving a comparison), don't use hacks, they use modules and components that are added parallel to the main system. You enter the admin panel, and select installers, then simply browse for the zip file you have downloaded on your desktop and press go. It uploads the zip file to the right place on the website, then opens it up and unzips it. It adds all the files to separate locations away from the core code, so it can cleanly be moved later on. Also any updates that happen to the core code wont be effecting the new additions. It also adds any extra fields required in the database to work but as it is within the Joomla database, it is actually now part of Joomla, not running along side of it.

Installing a Component, or module (http://www.newworlddesigns.co.uk/joomla/tutorials/Installing-and-Uninstalling-a-Component/Installing-a-Add-On.htm) Flash video

That video i produced for my clients is on my site, it shows how to install a Module and component (a module is something that displays information like a "cart" from a shop or latest forum posts of a forum. A component is a new bit of website, something like a shop, Gallery, Forum etc. So to install a Forum takes literally about 5 seconds to do.

Also the templates are just the same to install
http://www.newworlddesigns.co.uk/joomla/Tutorials/Adding-a-template/Templates1.htm (tutorial not quite perfect yet)

You can then assign these templates (as many as you want to install) separately to individual pages and parts of the site
http://www.joomlamagazine.com/tutorials/joomla-layout/assign_template.htm

Once you install the template, you can find them in the templates folder on the website, you just open the index.php file for the template and can modify it if you want to.

Also the content of the site can be manually pushed around a template unlike almost any other CMS system (including Osc) apart from Drupal with the positions function.
(i am building a tutorial for that at the moment, but I'm sure you can guess its not difficult at all)

The reason i don't post very often apart from the last 2 days is because people putting themselves across as professionals are giving extremely bad advice which will have a huge effect on people starting their own new company. For example lets say John takes the Osc root, and adds 10,000 products (which either system can hold double that easily), and then wants to add in a forum or another extra bit, he will then have to set up another system, and manually add in all the products one by one, all 10,000 of them.

Every time i come on here i end up arguing because people are so closed minded that they haven't tried anything else. I have used Drupal, Joomla, Osc, Zen, Cube Cart, and many commercial packages, and every time go back to Joomla or Drupal (which is another incredible system) as they do everything that a business owner needs and can grow with your company.

[jamie1183]

After reading the above post I must say it is a very valid point about the contributions, they are not easy to install and often require a professional to do it, to be honest we try to use them as little possible. Also the point about people hacking the code is very true, but it also applies to Joomla, we did a site in Joomla a few years ago as a quick job for someone and it got hacked within about 4 weeks and caused alot of problems.

[da8iwr]

The reason 99% of websites are hacked, is because the webmaster has done 2 things wrong. First leaving open directories and files (777) and not securing them (to 755 for directories and 644 on files). Also by not keeping the source code updated as often as possible to the absolute latest version.

http://www.newworlddesigns.co.uk/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=16&Itemid=93

I sent this to my clients last week showing tools and tricks that hackers use, and just added it now to my blog that explains in details what and how the hackers get into sites.

In general it is usually through image folders, as if you want to upload images through the PHP (the website admin such as product images etc), then the directory needs to be set to 777 (read and write to all) which means anybody can add anything they wish to this directory. Then a hacker simply adds a simple script like this
http://www.newworlddesigns.co.uk/how-spam-is-made/bulksender/admin.php?MainPage
And they can add any files anywhere they want on the server even on other websites. They will also be able to see the configuration file so can access the database to gain access to your users user name and passwords.

All my clients have their websites locked so so nobody (including them) can add new images etc to the site, if they want to add new images for products etc we have it set up so they have windows of time to do this, or i can manually change the directories for periods of time to allow them to work on it and i will then manually lock it down. This acts like a timed safe, stopping anybody accessing it. We have it worked out so it is usually when Asia are asleep, as that's where most of the little bas**rd hackers live.

To over come this, Joomla 1.5 the newest version doesn't upload anything via php, it does it through FTP, so you can leave all the files locked hard and the admin can still upload images etc.

I forgot to upgrade the Joomla code on 2 sites
www.joomlamagazine.com (http://www.joomlamagazine.com)
www.hellenicuk.com (http://www.hellenicuk.com)
and both were hacked massively and used as spam bulk mail senders, sending out millions of emails at my expense in bandwidth etc. That's my fault, but as they are both my sites not clients it was always one of them jobs that i will do tomorrow.

People on here say BUT ITS FREEEEEE when they are referring to open source code and get a real buzz from it, which is good if you want to save £100 or so. But you also have the other problems that hackers can also download the code for free and have the privilege of sit for hour upon hour hacking into it all day and night until they find a flaw.

They then use that info to hack all other sites using it and hey presto they can send millions of emails out at your expense, or use the user name and passwords to gain access to paypal accounts, as people are stupid and use the same passwords for everything. But commercial scripts are not available on the net openly, and are usually encrypted to stop hackers seeing how it is put together (as well as protect their source code from piracy).

I'm not saying don't use open source, I'm saying look into it properly and check everything properly before making the site open to the public. Here are a few handy links

http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,54006.0.html
http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/board,267.0.html

They are of course for Joomla, but they don't really refer to Joomla, they refer to security procedures with PHP websites. So you can use the tips and hints for almost any website type including commercial and open source sites.

If you also understand Shell SSH (direct access to the server with something like PuTTY) you may like this simple tutorial i made to make sure all files and directories are locked to 755 and 644.
http://www.joomlamagazine.com/tutorials/ssh/ssh-permissions/permissions.htm

Hope this helps
Ian

Oh PS
If you want a good idea for passwords, if your lucky like me and can remember number plates, use them rather than a name. This means on the side of my monitor i have a list of websites with besides it a list of car or trucks i used to own (I used to own a haulage company before this), so for example my website has "Leepy Lees" and another has "Morgasm (lenny morgan)" besides it, as those guys used to drive my trucks, and the number plates are the passwords. This way even if anybody broke into my house and nicked that list it is useless unless they worked in my company 12yreas ago and can remember the plates. Even if you used peoples dates of birth 20061976 for example, and just write the name of the person in a way you will remember it, but not be obvious to anybody else seeing the list. Use different codes for every use, especially banks etc.

I WILL GUARENTEE SOMEBODY READING THIS WILL BE USING THE SAME PASSWORD FOR UKBF WEBSITE AS THEIR PAYPAL ACCOUNT.
So if UKBF is ever hacked into and they gain access to the database, they can simply try the email address with the passwords in paypal login page and in general a few will probably work, then send all the money out to another account. Now you try and prove you never did it.

[jamie1183]

Great post above, I only have 1 site now that runs on joomla but will certainly check what version it is and upgrade if not.

And as for passwords I have a great ability to remember long numbers like Ip addresses, I have 8 IP addresses and have taken abit from each one and made a memorable and thrown in letters from the companys I can remember almost every password of most of our clients but yes your are very right about people using the same passwords that is one thing I never do, I use a similar method for my passwords for different sites. I really like the HSBC Business banking password system where you have a key fob and press it each time to login and generates a new number that gives you access.

I actually know so many people and developers who I have worked with in the past that use the word 'password' as the password this just shows pure stupidity and no care over the security of what they are building.

Also I know this is going totally off topic but what are peoples views on SQL databases, do you think they should have difficult passwords I know so many developers that create them with the username root, and password 'NULL'

[da8iwr]

we did a site in Joomla a few years ago as a quick job for someone and it got hacked within about 4 weeks and caused alot of problems.

Jamie i read that as 4 weeks ago, not a few years.

Joomla has massively changed in that time, a few days ago 1.5 was released which is completely different to 1.0 that you will have used. 1.5 is a complete rebuild from the ground up, not one part is the same code. Took them 2.5yrs to make.

Its an absolute animal :)

[CharlieWasAnAngel]

I took a look at OSCommerce, and what I really disliked about it was how the script and the html were all mixed intogether. The chances of accidently changing some of the code when I was altering the design and it not working properly was just not worth it for me - especially as I don't know php. Personally I would go for a .net solution where the design is largely separated from the code, so there's far less chance of you accidently messing up the all-important code. You'd have to pay a little more than for OSCommerce, but I think the time you'd save skinning it would be worth it. I really like storefront(dot net) - it's got loads of extra features that are useful for e-commerce sites.

[jamie1183]

Jamie i read that as 4 weeks ago, not a few years.

Joomla has massively changed in that time, a few days ago 1.5 was released which is completely different to 1.0 that you will have used. 1.5 is a complete rebuild from the ground up, not one part is the same code. Took them 2.5yrs to make.

Its an absolute animal :)

I'll have to look at that one, sounds good.

[da8iwr]

Joomla and Virtuemart use separate templates, away from the main code.

You can even add extra templates in, I am working on one as i type
http://www.newworlddesigns.co.uk/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=55&Itemid=69

Its no where near finished, i only started it 35mins ago, but you can see the links on the left etc which if you click on show it in the main template.

http://www.newworlddesigns.co.uk/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=45

That's an old out dated page on my site, but you can click on NWD Template, which shows how the template works in my own site and Dance Venue i made for my client form a PSD/JPG file.

I took a look at OSCommerce, and what I really disliked about it was how the script and the html were all mixed intogether. The chances of accidently changing some of the code which I was altering the design and it not working properly was just not worth it for me - especially as I don't know php. Personally I would go for a .net solution where the design is largely separated from the code, so there's far less chance of you accidently messing up the all-important code. You'd have to pay a little more than for OSCommerce, but I think the time you'd save skinning it would be worth it. I really like storefront(dot net) - it's got loads of extra features that are useful for e-commerce sites.

[bumperman]

Wow!! da8iwr thanks for very detailed response! Joomla certainly looks very capable-but could I learn it and how long would it take? It appears very heavy duty to me!

Packages I've considered are:

Shopfactory
Zen cart
Magento
Cubecart
Storesprite

but I'm certainly open to suggestions re other packages(incl Joomla/Virtuemart).

My requirements are (I believe) straightforward and I can be quite flexible in the way that the packages features are used.

I strongly believe that for the most very small businesses its vital to have an intimate knowledge of the package they use, and this intimate knowledge can best come from having installed and set up the package themselves. I say this in case some of you ecomm vendors say "give us you specification and leave the pros to setup the package. I doubt if many small businesses could draw up an accurate spec anyway-I know I couldn't! Therefore "A package I can learn and 'grow' with".

I hope I'm making sense,

Thanks

John

[Chris Ashdown]

Have you downloaded Actinic free trial at www.actinic.co.uk

[NullMind]

I too am in the lookout for a better cart

Anybody knows of a good cart, that also has a POS (if as an add-on) system ?

[da8iwr]

Hi Guys
Yerp, your right setting it up your self is the best way, and i have talked many people through it for free on the Joomla website. I have even built loads of tutorials in flash video to help you out to add towards the many on the market today.

For help and support

You can go to my friend Sean Cooks website
http://www.salyris.com/joomla_tutorial_center.html
That has a few of my tutorials and also other companies.

http://www.newworlddesigns.co.uk/joomla/tutorials/
You can see some of them ones i have live at the moment here

http://www.joomlamagazine.com/tutorials/ssh/ssh-permissions/permissions.htm
There is a nice one to help you with setting it up (maybe a little more for the advanced user)

There is rakes and rakes of info on the web about how to use and set this up.

1.5 has just been released, like literally about 5 days ago. It is great but the shopping system hasn't caught up yet and is still in beta testing. This is apparently going to be done by the end of Feb and will have a final release.

I will tell you now, this system is better than any commercial system available on the market. It really is that good.

Shopfactory (its a shop, not a CMS)
Zen cart (its a shop, not a CMS)
Magento (its a shop, not a CMS)
Cubecart (its a shop, not a CMS)
Storesprite (its a shop, not a CMS)

Joomla/Virtuemart (Its a shop, CMS, Forum, Newsletter sender, Gallery, Blog, Document handler, Digital download system, Online Calender, Community System, Poll/voting system, RSS Feeder and reader, Multi language, Help desk, CRM, Project manager...... and so on)

You can set up any registered user in Joomla with different privileges to add and edit content. The only bug is you cant assign them their own area, without hacking the system. This means they can add to anywhere on the site and not just one little bit like News or Weather. But I'm not sure if that is in Joomla 1.5 or not.

I think there is now a new extra (http://extensions.joomla.org/component/option,com_mtree/task,viewlink/link_id,387/Itemid,35/) allowing this though, but Ive never used it yet.
Download 1.0.13 complete ecommerce edition (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/Joomla_1.0.13_eCommerce_Edition_VM_1.0.14.tar.gz) in a tar.gz form (with winrar or what ever you use) from virtue mart.
Set up a new hosting account on your hosting or a new directory
Set up a MySQL database with user on your hosting
Unpack all your files into the root
Upload to the server
open the site and it takes you through step by step what to do like a wizard, and then see what you can do with it.

This is the last version, as there is squillions of extras available, 1.5 is much better, but there are very few extras.

Then visit sites like www.joomlart.com (http://www.joomlart.com) and look at all the templates available, all can be customized.

You will struggle at first, but will eventually realise it is perfect for what you need, and then become another Joomla master.

Give it ago, if you get stuck, ask on this thread and ill help you out.

[awebapart.com]

Hi Guys
Hi Ian. It is good to see you back on the forums, as you talk a lot of sense, and it is always interesting to hear your opinions - even if I don't agree with all of them!

I do agree that if you are going the DIY route, then osCommerce v2.x is very rarely the best way to go as it can be a nightmare (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=391686) to modify and maintain, and businesses should first look at other semi-bespoke (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=278560) alternatives (such as Joomla/Virtuemart). I say this even though we made the strategic decision to use our custom version of osCommerce (http://www.awebapart.com/home/sitebuilder_features) as the online shop section of our sitebuilder cms service. The osCommerce situation should improve with the next major release v3 (a major rewrite) later this year.

I don't agree that DIY is the right route for everyone. It depends on how technical you are, whether you still need support/advice/handholding in other areas associated with the overall process of setting up and maintaining a web presence, and also whether it makes sense business-wise to do so (the old DIY vs outsource debate).

if you get stuck, ask on this thread and ill help you out.
Does Virtuemart support stock control across multiple product option variations? e.g. so you can have a product like a shirt, with various colour options, and various size options, and have stock control working across these so if you run out of 40 inch red shirts, the shop prevents the customer from ordering these? I asked this question a while back (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=218318) and from the lack of response by any Virtuemart people then, I assumed that Virtuemart didn't support this feature at that time, so it would be interesting to hear if this situation has changed.

[da8iwr]

Hi Ian. It is good to see you back on the forums, as you talk a lot of sense, and it is always interesting to hear your opinions - even if I don't agree with all of them!


Yerp I'm a pretty opinionated tw*t at times i agree, you should see the arguments between me and my fiance who is mediterranean. Its true what they say about their temperament in every way.

The way i look at it is if you "know" your right and somebody else is either talking rubbish or giving an uneducated answer, then to stop it effecting others i will argue my point.

I was going to look into what the Osc V3 is releasing, but never quite got around to it, but i imagine the time they have had to do it, it should be good.

The question on VM, i have to say I'm not sure, ill do a test later on and let you know, as its something i have never tried before.

Its strangle how when you build sites, you very rarely actually use it. My clients know more about how to do things with it than i do!!!

Al the best
Ian

OK I'm off now to walk the dog in a blizzard with gale force wind :(

[North Wales Inks]

I use cubecart version 4 and think it's been than zencart myself

[mark_midlands]

IMO you cant beat a custom developed .net solution that suits you business needs.

[da8iwr]

.NET is an excellent platform, we have developed some massive projects using this form. But for what we are talking about it is massively overkill.

Also there are some very expensive licence costs to use .NET and MS SQL databases. You will find that you will also be struggling to find support on the net compared to PHP and MYSQL.

I am not a supported of php over .NET ASP, in fact a few years ago i would have supported you 100%. But now i have seen that they are both as good as each other, and PHP has so much more support through forums etc.

I was going to show you an example, but my windows hosting is down AGAIN!!!

IMO you cant beat a custom developed .net solution that suits you business needs.

[da8iwr]

Does Virtuemart support stock control across multiple product option variations? e.g. so you can have a product like a shirt, with various colour options, and various size options, and have stock control working across these so if you run out of 40 inch red shirts, the shop prevents the customer from ordering these? I asked this question a while back (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=218318) and from the lack of response by any Virtuemart people then, I assumed that Virtuemart didn't support this feature at that time, so it would be interesting to hear if this situation has changed.

I produced a small test last night and also asked on the virtuemart forums (http://forum.virtuemart.net/index.php?topic=36083) to see if there was something i never knew about.

And yes what your asking for can be done. You set the products up as child products, there is a great tutorial here of how to do it.

http://virtuemart.net/documentation/User_Manual/Product_Items.html

I have to say it was something i never looked into before. I produce a lot of tutorial videos for many software companies, and whilst doing it have to check every little bit of what it does so i can show and explain how it works. It means I need to open parts up I would never normally use, so helps me learn the product in intimate detail.

And thats one bit i never looked into in that way before.

Can Oscommerce do this, as i honestly dont know?
Regards
Ian

[da8iwr]

I use cubecart version 4 and think it's been than zencart myself

Cube Cart 4 isn't free, its $129.99 + $89.99 to remove their copyright in the footer (or $179.95 to buy as a pack of licence and copyright removal)
If we are talking about commercial (paid for) systems, I could blow that out of the water with alternatives.

But even though Cube Cart is paid for, does it have an integrated forum, integrated gallery, integrated blog, how about even a simple integrated part to add pages?

Why would you pay a system that has less features and business possibilities features than other products? It doesn't really matter how user friendly the admin is, or how many toys it has, if it cant grow with a company its useless.

If we are talking about standalone shop systems, just to add to my rant and rave whilst stamping my feet (and eating a Muller corner yogurt), apart from the original poster Bumperman, nobody has mentioned even once, possibly the most exciting and incredible system on the market.

Magento (http://www.magentocommerce.com/)

I left this out to see if any of the pros on here have actually even looked at it, and nobody obviously has. It is said to be the next huge system that will without doubt destroy all the open-source and commercial packages available today.

Myself and another few developers planned to produce another shop system for Joomla 1.5, a commercial only version, but then we found Magento (which isn't in final release yet) and decided to just sit back and see what happens for a while.

There is already a team of programmers fully supporting Magento in the Joomla community that will be making it into a system that bolts into Joomla, giving the integrated forum, gallery etc. There are some legal issues on licences such as Joomla is GPL and Magento is Open Source, which means they have had to do a little clever twist to make them integrate together as GPL and Open-Source conflict with each other. But they have found a way.

The full story about the Joomla/Magento joining is here (http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,205951.0.html)

There is also the IJoomla store (http://www.ijoomla.com/ijoomla-digistore/ijoomla-digistore/index/), which is a commercial, very simple, very well reviewed and very secure shop that bolts into Joomla. It hasn't all the widgets of other stores (which was a conscious decision, to help make it easier to use.

Ijoomla says in an FAQ question "Why should i pay when i can use Virtuemart for free"

Maybe you shouldn't. We recommend that you give VirtueMart a try. If you can make it work, great! Frankly, we've tried it... and found that it's like trying to drive a 10-ton semi when all you really need is a good bicycle. It's too clumsy, too difficult and far too time-consuming.

It's also free, which is nice, until you want some support. Then you'll find that you get what you paid for. When you buy from iJoomla, we're there for you! If you have any problem, just drop us a line and our professional support team will be in touch.

It is in the build progress at the moment, so will improve over time. It is very simply to use, great interface, and excellent in SEO. It costs $79 (£39) per site with unlimited upgrades for life.

There is also the Drupal direction, which is another awesome CMS with Drupal Ecommerce (http://www.drupalecommerce.org/), Drupal are not really in competition with Joomla, as many of the programmers who build Joomla also work on Drupal. When ever either one release an update, the other also advertises it. I think Drupal is a little better for info sites such as IVRPA (http://ivrpa.org/user/2405) which was built with Drupal.

So many avenues to look at, and everybody on here who are professional advisers keep saying "OSCOMMERCE"

A 7 year old system that isnt even valid code!!!:rolleyes:

Right back to my yogurt (cherry flavour)

[awebapart.com]

Does Virtuemart support stock control across multiple product option variations? e.g. so you can have a product like a shirt, with various colour options, and various size options, and have stock control working across these so if you run out of 40 inch red shirts, the shop prevents the customer from ordering these? I asked this question a while back (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=218318) and from the lack of response by any Virtuemart people then, I assumed that Virtuemart didn't support this feature at that time, so it would be interesting to hear if this situation has changed.I produced a small test last night and also asked on the virtuemart forums (http://forum.virtuemart.net/index.php?topic=36083) to see if there was something i never knew about.

And yes what your asking for can be done. You set the products up as child products
Thanks for looking into this. The question you asked on the Virtuemart forum is actually slightly different to the question I asked, in that a product with just colour options has a direct correlation between the colour option values and the stock, whereas a product with two options, colour and size, does not have a direct correlation between a colour and a stock number, since the stock number is dependent upon the possible combinations of colour and size, (e.g. if there are 5 colours and 10 sizes in inches, then stock numbers need to be assigned to the 5x10=50 variations, even though there are only 5+10=15 option values across 2 options colour and size). Judging by another virtuemart forum question (http://forum.virtuemart.net/index.php?topic=35852.msg111461), it does look like there is a workaround by combining the two options into one option, a single colour/size option (with 50 options values in the above example) which is a typical workaround for ecommerce systems which only go so far in their product option stock control support.

I have to say it was something i never looked into before.
A lot depends on what type of clients you have. Some clients will never need this functionality (some shops don't even need product option functionality, some shops don't need any stock control functionality). This product option level stock control requirement was an important requirement we had from our very first ecommerce client. It is more common a requirement for shops wanting to sell clothing items which need tight control on their stock so they don't sell items they don't have (or cannot reorder). This does help to show that there is no single best ecommerce system (http://www.awebapart.com/home/faq/Best_ecommerce_solution), a lot can depend on your requirements and what type of products you want to sell.

Can Oscommerce do this, as i honestly dont know?
No, not the default osCommerce v2.x system. But it can with the QTPro contribution, which is a complex contribution software developement integration task to implement (involving PHP and database changes). osCommerce, with QTPro, can handle multiple product options separately, e.g. size and colour, and allow stock numbers to be assigned to the combined variations of these options, and we have this available as standard in our custom version of osCommerce (http://www.awebapart.com/home/sitebuilder_features). With osCommerce v3, to be released later this year (and a major rewrite from scratch), there should be some major improvements in product attribute functionality within the default system.

[da8iwr]

Hi Paul
I can see what your asking for, and the way you mean it, i just cant see how the system will work at all with it.

I produce a few mods for virtuemart, that make it work in different ways, and just cant see how it will work at all.

Have you a demo i can see, so i can see how it shows the stock control in the attribute stock numbers, as there must be a list of stock numbers that dont relate to products in the system?

Many thanks
Ian

[futurex]

zen cart , I am planning to use it...but now i will consider oscommerce

[awebapart.com]

I can see what your asking for, and the way you mean it, i just cant see how the system will work at all with it.

I produce a few mods for virtuemart, that make it work in different ways, and just cant see how it will work at all.

Have you a demo i can see, so i can see how it shows the stock control in the attribute stock numbers, as there must be a list of stock numbers that dont relate to products in the system?
I have set up a quick demo product (http://www.awebapart.com/customgoods/shop/product_info.php/cPath/38/products_id/105) to demonstrated this stock control feature in one of our old demonstration online shops (try ordering a t-shirt, colour cream, size small).

I have also set up an osCommerce admin screenshot (http://www.awebapart.com/home/private/productoptionlevelstockcontrol) of how this is handled in the admin system.

I hope this helps.

[da8iwr]

zen cart , I am planning to use it...but now i will consider oscommerce

After whats been wrote in this thread, you just wrote that for a reaction didnt you :rolleyes:

Thanks for that Paul
So the stock control, is it like a sub stock control, where you would click on the stock system of that product, so like a sub stock system.

Also do you have to populate it manually, so you would have to enter for
5 colours and 5 sized 25 items, or does the system pick them up, and you just have to enter the amount in stock?

Regards
Ian

[awebapart.com]

Also do you have to populate it manually, so you would have to enter for 5 colours and 5 sized 25 items, or does the system pick them up, and you just have to enter the amount in stock?
You have to manually enter the stock numbers initially, the system then keeps it up to date automatically as items are purchased. The options can be set up once manually so they can be shared across products, but you still have to link them in manually when you create a new product from scratch.

[da8iwr]

Hi Paul
I can see what your asking for, and the way you mean it, i just cant see how the system will work at all with it.

I produce a few mods for virtuemart, that make it work in different ways, and just cant see how it will work at all.

Have you a demo i can see, so i can see how it shows the stock control in the attribute stock numbers, as there must be a list of stock numbers that dont relate to products in the system?

Many thanks
Ian

I have set up a quick demo product (http://www.awebapart.com/customgoods/shop/product_info.php/cPath/38/products_id/105) to demonstrated this stock control feature in one of our old demonstration online shops (try ordering a t-shirt, colour cream, size small).

I have also set up an osCommerce admin screenshot (http://www.awebapart.com/home/private/productoptionlevelstockcontrol) of how this is handled in the admin system.

I hope this helps.

You have to manually enter the stock numbers initially, the system then keeps it up to date automatically as items are purchased. The options can be set up once manually so they can be shared across products, but you still have to link them in manually when you create a new product from scratch.

One more question :)

If we sold 5 sizes in 5 colours one being red, and the red went out of stock acodring to the stock system, will it just drop the one red attribute, leaving all the others?

[awebapart.com]

One more question :)

If we sold 5 sizes in 5 colours one being red, and the red went out of stock acodring to the stock system, will it just drop the one red attribute, leaving all the others?
The red colour option will still be there and there will be an "out of stock" message next to it in the option list. I have added red with no stock to the demo. A similar thing would happen if all the small size shirts in all colours sold out. This is configurable within the admin system to handle it in different ways if necessary (e.g. just remove red from the list).

[deviltronics]

If we are talking about standalone shop systems, just to add to my rant and rave whilst stamping my feet (and eating a Muller corner yogurt), apart from the original poster Bumperman, nobody has mentioned even once, possibly the most exciting and incredible system on the market.

Magento (http://www.magentocommerce.com/)

I left this out to see if any of the pros on here have actually even looked at it, and nobody obviously has. It is said to be the next huge system that will without doubt destroy all the open-source and commercial packages available today.



Just went through 5 pages of very interesting reading.

Our current site is OSCommerce (see link in signature) and am looking to move to a different platform due to how poor it is for SEO's terms.

My php developer mentioned Magento to me about 6 weeks, I took a look and it has absolutely everything you could ask for. I am going to move to this next once the PROTX payment method can work with it.

[awebapart.com]

Magento was discussed on this forum several months ago, this thread (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=41359), and yes it is another one to 'keep on the radar'.

[da8iwr]

Ahh right i never saw that thread

I think Magento's timing is great for the osCommerce v3 alpha as Magento's beta availability now should up the ante for what finally gets delivered in osCommerce v3 in the coming months. Before Magento, there wasn't much competition in the free open source ecommerce arena, with just osCommerce (and its derivatives like Zencart and CRELoaded) and VirtueMart as the main players. A little bit of extra competition should raise the bar all round. Whether Magento's timing is good for Magento is another matter, perhaps it shouldn't have shown its hand so early with osCommerce v3 around the corner, perhaps it should have kept itself under wraps until osCommerce v3 was released.

I'm still asking in this thread, as their is no point in splitting this conversation across 2 threads.

Just curious, why Should Magento keep itself under wraps and wait for Osc stable release, shouldn't it be the other way around?
http://forums.oscommerce.com/index.php?showtopic=186458

OSC has been in production since (the first i could find on the forums at least) Dec 2005, it is now Feb 08 and they arnt out of Alpha testing yet.
http://www.oscommerce.com/community/roadmap

From what i could see in the other thread, everything was done to undermine Magento.

People complained about it being too heavy in Object orientated source code, the file sizes, etc etc. Which was then proven later on not to be correct.

In my eyes, there is only one thing that comes first, and that's the client. Make sure they can use the system, its userfriendly, can be upgraded, has good code on the front end, and most importantly out of everything, is expandable so can grow with the company.

From what i have seen so far of OSC3, it still doesn't allow extra content pages or other systems to be bolted to it, with out some major scripting work. In fact i have installed it on my server (as i was interested myself), and cant see anything different than most other shopping systems have.
http://www.joomlamagazine.com/testserver/osc3alpha4/

Does anybody know of anything that really makes OSC3 worth while watching?

DAM!!!
I wrote this at 11am this morning, and forgot to press "post", must have pressed preview, and just noticed now when shutting the pc down :D

[awebapart.com]

With the earlier thread on magento, after some initial shock and confusion regarding the download size was cleared up, the general first impressions were positive ones.

To me the advantages of osCommerce, and why we made the strategic decision to customise and use it for the online shop section of websites created with our sitebuilder service, include:

1. osCommerce v2.x has a large existing client base of shop owners that have successfully put the system to use in many different areas, which shows that it is flexible, osCommerce and its contributions have already solved various problems and issues shop owners face, and generally it is doing something right (in the right hands)

2. With any software system that gets more complex with time, at certain stages you have to take a step back from adding to it making it more complex, and focus on simplifying the system and perhaps re-architecting for your future plans. This is what the osCommerce guys are doing with v3.x, they are re-writing it from scratch with a much better architecture, in order for it move forward - something that was definitely needed in osCommerce's case.

3. osCommerce v3, whilst the public-facing shop demos do not look very different, has a lot of differences under the hood, including XHTML, a much improved admin system, and other major improvements to the base system, bringing in some functionality that was previously only available as contributions, and adding new functionality.

4. When the much improved osCommerce v3.x is eventually released, you also have to ask the question what is the point of some of its derivative v2.x builds like Zencart and CRELoaded, which originally were there to address problems with osCommerce v2.x, problems that might no longer be there with v3.x

With our sitebuilder service we aren't worried about whether osCommerce is a CMS too, providing a cms for non-shop pages, since all of the non-shop CMS is handled by our sitebuilder cms. But if you are going the DIY route and want an online shop and a CMS for a lot of non-shop content, then osCommerce v3 alone still probably isn't the best way to go, and you should consider a Joomla and Virtuemart combination. Joomla provides the overall architecture for plug-ins, and Virtuemart is the ecommerce plug-in. Who knows perhaps someone one day will integrate osCommerce with Joomla (http://www.joomlahacks.com/joomla/components/osCommerce_Bridge/) so it can fit into Joomla too.

Alternatively if you want a single system solution for both ecommerce and non-shop cms, with some imaginative coding, it shouldn't be too difficult to turn any open source ecommerce system into a cms for non-shop content too, by reserving one shop category within the shop for the non-shop content, not displaying the 'non-shop' category in the normal shop, but using its content (sub-categories, products) for your site's sections and articles content.

[Mark-UK]

I've used Oscommerce for all 5 of my online stores I set up and each one has always achieved great organic rankings, I find it very easy to SEO, not sure about other scripts but for what osc costs its a great bit of kit.

[jacksan]

Check this Zeuscart dot com this is the best open source ecommerce shopping carts software. It is licenced under free GPL and it supports more advanced features to built your own online store.

[edmondscommerce]

wow this thread is really old

[cindu]

Zeuscart which is the best ecommerce shopping cart software.

[hennadaffodile]

The Groupon clone script is the latest script from the company. It is online commercial software meant for creating shopping websites. Its one of the best scripts designed from groupon so far and it is dominated the shopping cart software on the web.