Patio Heaters or Christmas lights?

[DotNetWebs]

I was having one of those strange debates in the pub the other night. I mentioned that I was thinking of getting a patio heater for occasional use when I have garden parties / BBQs etc. I was criticised for this on the basis that patio heaters are extremely un-environmentally friendly and that many people think they should be banned etc.

The odd thing was that some of the anti-patio heater people have over-the-top exterior Christmas Lights burning for the whole of December. We tend to see more and more excessive exterior Christmas lights on houses. The trend around here if for entire streets to join forces and try and outdo rival streets.

So my question is: Which seasonal product do you condiser the worse offender Patio Heaters or Christmas lights?

[MH1]

Can't help on the enviromental issue but the patio heaters were a good earner this year, halogen not gas :D

So xmas lights for me.:D

[Dawg]

It's a bit of a "do you still beat your wife" type question. Using either will get you cold dark looks and a clucking from henvironmentalists.
The heater has a function over and above mere decoration, which should be in it's favour.

[DotNetWebs]

...The heater has a function over and above mere decoration, which should be in it's favour.

I agree. This is the argument I was making to my house-adorning friends.

I would also argue that, contrary to the environmentalists' arguments, a patio heater is relatively efficient compared to the alternate method of keeping people warn outside. Ever since humans first discovered fire people have made bonfires to keep them warm. I have been to many a party where a bonfire or campfire has been lit. I have lit many fires myself. The problem with bonfires [from an efficiency point of view] is that they take a long time to get going and tend to burn for hours (or even days) after they have ceased to be used by the people that lit them. Also the vast majority of heat from them is radiated straight up into the atmosphere. Patio heaters on the other hand can be controlled to only use energy when it is required. They also have a hood that radiates the heat in a more efficient pattern.

I believe at least one major retail chain has given in to pressure and stopped selling patio heaters. I personally think they are less of an environmental 'villain' than excessive exterior Christmas lights.

Anyway, like I said, it was just one of those odd pub 'debates' that occurs after a few pints! :eek:

Regards

Dotty

[Pelenna]

Not sure on the whole patio heater/christmas lights debate, but surely you can't compare a bonfire to a patio heater - bonfires usually burn wood, which is carbon neutral (or so I'm told, open to correction!), and which is lying around anyway. At least the bonfires we have do :)

[sirearl]

It's a bit of a "do you still beat your wife" type question. Using either will get you cold dark looks and a clucking from henvironmentalists.
The heater has a function over and above mere decoration, which should be in it's favour.

would that be global warming.?:p:D


Earl

[LisaHoughton]

We have a chiminea ... it's brilliant!:D

[DotNetWebs]

Not sure on the whole patio heater/christmas lights debate, but surely you can't compare a bonfire to a patio heater - bonfires usually burn wood, which is carbon neutral (or so I'm told, open to correction!), and which is lying around anyway. At least the bonfires we have do :)

That's a good point.

Wood from sustainable sources is carbon neutral but what if you burn some old furniture? The carbon you are releasing could otherwise have been locked up for hundreds of years. Is it better to release a greater amount of CO2 from this wood than you would release from the burning of a limited amount of gas?

Regards

Dotty

[Pelenna]

Hmmm, also a dang good point. We live in a forestry so if we do have bonfires it tends to be using fallen wood from the trees around us. I just couldn't bring myself to have a patio heater though (I'm too much of a skinflint if nothing else!) - we just go inside when it gets cold!

[Dawg]

I must remember to ask the people who smoke outside a local pub, warmed by 3 patio heaters, (on a seafront), whether their cigarettes are carbon neutral.

(This is true, by the way. Walking my dogs at night I often stroll past this pub, 3 burning patio heaters, maybe, maybe one smoker, and an exhilarating sea breeze redistributing the heat most efficiently. Is this the modern equivalent of lighting your cigar with a £20 note? Even a grumpy, cynical ole Dawg thinks this is a golden FFS)

No Christmas lights tho'

[Pelenna]

Cor, all we get at the local is a tin roof next to the kitchen extract fan!

[maruby]

I think peeps are being encouraged to switch to a chiminea these days?
Thanks for this thread - I've just been transported back to Paris, drinking wine outside a cafe under a patio heater....

[AdamJ]

Patio heaters are marvellous. Buy a Toyota Pious then go and sit in the garden in the middle of winter under a big gas burner. Magic.

We had a big patio heater - only two problems. One, it burned the top of my head everytime I sat under it. And two, it couldn't cope with Snowdonia winds and snapped in two. Back to the chimnea again but not as convenient for a quick evening coffee in the garden on a brisk cold day.

[Dawg]

Had to give the wife one of those Pious cars after she gave me a Hummer.

[flck72]

Yes some people go overboard with the ole Christmas lights but nothing like the National Lampoons Christmas Vacation yet. Don't get me wrong I am trying pretty darn hard to be environmentally friendly in business, home and garden. Patio heaters was tempted a long time ago until I realised this was a bad green decision, although if I was outside on a cold night at someones place with a patio heater, i would huddle under it.:D

[Jenni384]

I can't really decide between the two.
I think patio heaters are a big waste of energy, and can't see me ever buying one.
I also think extravagant xmas lights are not only a waste but look awful! A few tasteful ones are fine but some houses I see would make me laugh if it wasn't for the shocking waste of electricity. But that's just my opinion ;)
Dawg, I almost laughed at your post, if it wasn't for the.... [see above]

I'm sure I read that little things like electricity usage pale in comparison to taking a holistic approach to the environmental issues which would get down to the nitty gritty of the food we eat and the clothes we wear. Trouble is most people, myself included, find it difficult to make those kind of huge adjustments. *ponders*

[Dawg]

I also think extravagant xmas lights are not only a waste but look awful! ...... But that's just my opinion

Ahh! The Taste and Safety people have a branch in Marlborough....?:)

[DotNetWebs]

It seem patio heaters are to banned by the EU:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3279948.ece

They seem like an easy target to me. According to experts quoted in this article, leaving TVs on standby wastes 5 times as much energy as patio heaters (with normal usage patterns).

I would love to see the same experts make a comparison with some of the over-the-top Christmas light displays.

Regards

Dotty

[SillyJokes]

It seem patio heaters are to banned by the EU:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3279948.ece

They seem like an easy target to me. According to experts quoted in this article, leaving TVs on standby wastes 5 times as much energy as patio heaters (with normal usage patterns).

I would love to see the same experts make a comparison with some of the over-the-top Christmas light displays.

Regards

Dotty

Easy target they may be but lets nip them in the bud before they get out of hand. It's ridiculous to heat a patio - the bodies underneath would start to smell again.

OTT Christmas lights - I'm so glad I don't live in a street with these. Trashy, hideous, greedy commercialisation. Bah Humbug. Two lumps of coal is more than enough Christmas Cheer.

But, yes, you are right about goods on standby. We should ban both these things AND turn off our TVs. Is it so very hard to do?

[sirearl]

Had to give the wife one of those Pious cars after she gave me a Hummer.


yep I got a pious wife and she's a bit of a Hummer.:|

Earl

[sirearl]

xmas light maybe 20 watts

patio heater 3,000 watts Plus

no brainer for us Einstein's

Earl

[abovezero]

xmas light maybe 20 watts

patio heater 3,000 watts Plus

no brainer for us Einstein's

Earl
It is not easy to work this one out like that I think. I guess a lot more people have Christmas lights than patio heaters, and so the total energy used may not be in the ratio 3000:20 as you suggest.

When I was a kid most people had one string of lights around the branches of their Christmas tree, now ridiculous numbers over people cover the front of their houses in coloured lights - a bit more than 20 Watts worth I should think. but how do you stop people being so wasteful and environmentally unfriendly?

And as for patio heaters, well they are going to give you an enormous carbon footprint.