Ethical Phone numbers

[gibby]

Hi

got approached the other day by a wholesale co that we refused to do business with as we have to ring their rip off 0870 number

I explained that we & our customers dont like unethcial 0870 & 0845 numbers as the owners make millions form them but the firm couldnt see it


We have the same with courier firms as the last firm we used were terrible for keeping customers on the line with their 0870 number
in the end the customers rang us not the couriers to chase up missed deliveries.

Why can't these daft firms understand that customers & businesses alike dont like unethical ways of making a profit from hidden fees?

G

[dev99]

g
couldn't agree more

[Claire B]

I have also found this when calling premium rate numbers and the 0870numbers are the worst. I'm sure that call centre staff have been trained to keep you on the phone for as long as possible with unecessary questions as it undoubtedly racks up their profit.

Wasn't there a campaign recently Say No to 0870?

[RedEvo]

I explained that we & our customers dont like unethcial 0870 & 0845 numbers as the owners make millions form them but the firm couldnt see it

Eh....... 0845 numbers are not rip off. Our resident phone expert cjd

0845 was introduced as a Lo-Call number as callers are charged at local rates (when called from landlines) no matter where they are. Unfortunately, there is no longer a different charge for local and national calls to ordinary geographic numbers so the marketing distinction has been lost. They are however cheaper to call than geographic numbers 2p rather than 3p pm (day).

See this (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=46850) for full text.

d

[cjd]

If Ofcom get it right - unlikely - the most 'ethical' number to have will be an 03. But they look as tho' they're going to bollox it up.

Otherwise a normal geographic number is perfect for most purposes.

[gibby]

I understand the way the 0845 numbers are sold - as a business I part owned a while back sold these until I stopped it
they tell prospective buyers it gives customers the same rate to call anywhere in the UK, plus gives you cred

for the last few years everyone can call an 01 or 02 number for the same price or normally for free from a call package - but 0845 are charged at a higher rate

The are also sold or given free to companies as they can be moved quickly to direct calls to other lines, but then so can an 01 & 02 number if you do it right

revenue is made by the telco on 0845 numbers as they do get some of the call cost - but not by the firm using it - unlike 0870 numbers

G

[PI Guy]

I have an 0870 number which transforms faxes into a PDF doc and delivers it to my email in tray. It's brill and all my customers don't blink twice at the cost of it.

I also have a 0800 number for them to ring me and my local clients get my 0208 number and my mobile.

[safenet]

for the last few years everyone can call an 01 or 02 number for the same price or normally for free from a call package - but 0845 are charged at a higher rate



What? From a normal BT line it would cost me more to call a non-local geographic number than it costs me to call 0845.

How is it unethical for my business to run an 0845 number when I give my clients the option of either using that, a geographic number, and a mobile?

Cheers

Chris

[AdamJ]

Why is this a 'green' issue??

[toystoyou]

I have an eco-friendly and ethical company with an 0870 tel number but I make no money from it.
I work from home and don't want my home phone number all over my website so this was an alternative to getting net nutcases knowing my home number.
Not everyone makes money from their 0870 numbers some use them because they're a good alternative.
julie

[KM-Tiger]

I have an eco-friendly and ethical company with an 0870 tel number but I make no money from it.

Then whoever is providing that number is making money from your callers.

Albeit only pence, but you think that's ethical?

[ADW]

I really don't think 0845 numbers are unethical at all and as for 0870 they are not that bad. I am under the impression that these are just local/national rate numbers respectively and are charged so accordingly. There are plenty of other numbers when you can make a bit on the side but these are premium rate and shouldn't be lumped into the same bracket as 0845 or 70 numbers.

P.s. I don't know what this has to do with Green issues either or is that where the ethical part comes in?

[maruby]

I have an eco-friendly and ethical company with an 0870 tel number but I make no money from it.
I work from home and don't want my home phone number all over my website so this was an alternative to getting net nutcases knowing my home number.
Not everyone makes money from their 0870 numbers some use them because they're a good alternative.
julie

Julie - I use VOIP running via my broadband connection - noone has my home number and I am able to loads of other stuff with the number such as set office hours.

It's worth giving it a go ;)

[cjd]

I have an eco-friendly and ethical company with an 0870 tel number but I make no money from it.
I work from home and don't want my home phone number all over my website so this was an alternative to getting net nutcases knowing my home number.
Not everyone makes money from their 0870 numbers some use them because they're a good alternative.
julie

The supplier of the number is making about 4-5p per minute from your customers calling your number.

You should seriously consider changing it to an normal geographic number; Ofcom's research says that 73% of potential customers won't call 0870 numbers. Please have a look at this earlier thread.

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=46850

[gibby]

fair point - although you could have a 2nd 01/02 number added on to your line.

Nice site too!

if you look at it from the customers point of view

if they have a call package they would normally call you for free - but your charging them almost 10p a min
if they dont have a call package they would normally be charged 3p but you charging them 10p

If they are using a mobile they can call for free or on a low rate but not with your 0870
& although your not making money from it, the telco that gave you the 0870 can be making up to 5p a min


So the big question is - do you care about your customers?

If you do you wouldnt expect them to pay 10p a min for a call that normally is free. Personally I think its poor customer service.

Also - what if its costing you business?
There is a big movement on the net to ban these numbers. People do not like them & what if its just costing you one order per month or customers dont buy agian after trying to sort a problem on your 0870

Just this week warnings were given to consumers about online stores that are taking money but not supplying goods.
One of the big points they asked customers to look for was a real phone number as firms can hide behind these numbers as any McNugget can get these numbers.

Its abit like having a shop & charging customers to come through the door.

Finally I know theses number do cost firms money as when we used to market 0800 numbers - when everyone was paying for calls - it was easy to triple the calls coming in as customers do prefer to call for free rather than pay to call.

check out
www.saynoto0870.com
for info on the feelings of the public

G

[Rhyl Lightworks]

I work from home and don't want my home phone number all over my website so this was an alternative to getting net nutcases knowing my home number.

julie

We have a normal geographic phone no. (albeit a business one not a home one) on our site, and I can't recall one occasion when we have been rung by a 'net nutcase'. We only get genuine enquiries, and the occosional telesales call, but registering with tps cuts these down to very few.
Barrie

[Richie N]

The rate has been reduced calling 0870 numbers

[Page]

0845 - a sort of rip off - since for those of us who use mobile numbers to ring them they are not included in our free minutes.

But maybe that is the mobile phone providers "scam" as opposed to the 0845 number owners.

[cjd]

The rate has been reduced calling 0870 numbers

Oh no it hasn't ;-)


Ofcom announces 0870 number delay (communications)

6 November 2007

Industry watchdog Ofcom has reportedly delayed plans to end the preponderance of 0870 corporate information lines - whose high charges have been criticised by consumer groups.

Previously, Ofcom had said that it would take action to bring the call charges down to the national standard landline rate by February 2008.
Currently, 0870 numbers charge up to 40p per minute.

Nevertheless, the Guardian reports that the watchdog has delayed the implementation of its cost-cutting scheme by a "short period".

Under the plans, firms who continued to charge a higher rate would be forced to play consumers a pre-recorded message prior to calls, informing them of the extra fees which would be levied.

Commenting on the delay, a spokesperson for Ofcom said: "There's no change to our overall policy. The key point about these changes is bringing down the price of calls to 0870, which will happen in spring next year [and] the pre-call announcement option would only be relevant to providers who chose to depart from that general rule.

"We will keep any delay to a minimum."

The 0870 lines are currently used by many businesses - as well as some government departments.

Latest figures cited by the newspaper suggest that calls to numbers with an 08 prefix cost consumers £850 million per year.

[toystoyou]

Our customer's mostly get in touch by email as we always reply to them promptly so they have little need to call our 0870 number. And from those who have called it we have had no complaints about the expense yet.
The majority of calls we receive through our 0870 line are calls from people asking us to advertise with them, people who, when I explain I am very busy wrapping santa grotto toys right now, will not get off the line and let me get on with my business, sales people who will blatantly lie to get me to call them back, sales people who try very hard not to take no for an answer. If these companies want to spend their money calling an 0870 line then who I am to stop them.
My business is ethical, I use only recycled paper, I switch off all electrical/electronic machines every night, I reuse all packaging, I sell only ethical/eco-friendly toys, etc, etc, etc. My telephone number, in my humble opinion, is not an ethical issue and has no effect on the environment. It is a convenient means to an end for my business.
Julie

[dave_n]

Then whoever is providing that number is making money from your callers.

Albeit only pence, but you think that's ethical?

what do u suggest they do....make nothing from providing an 0845 number?????????

[Chris H]

Why is this a 'green' issue??

A very good question!

I can only think there's a mistaken assumption that if something is 'green' then it must be 'ethical'.

Unless someone knows different...

[cjd]

A very good question!

I can only think there's a mistaken assumption that if something is 'green' then it must be 'ethical'

Yup; green, organic, moral, ethical, ecofriendly, responsible all mean exactly the same now.

[You weren't supposed to notice :cool:]

[Chris H]

Yup; green, organic, moral, ethical, ecofriendly, responsible all mean exactly the same now.

[You weren't supposed to notice :cool:]

:p I'm sure that's the wrong thing to say on this part of the forum!

[Underpressure]

We actually provide 0870, 0845 ans 0844 numbers.

Its true that we get a percentage of the call cost but its not ground breaking by any stretch. There are also expenses that go with those numbers.

Here is the reality;

Calls to an 0870 number from a standard BT landline line will cost the caller (including VAT):
7.91p (Daytime)
3.95p (Evening)
1.5p (Weekend)
Call cost is dropping shortly.

Calls to an 0844 number from a standard BT landline line will cost the caller (including VAT):
5p (Daytime)
5p (Evening)
5p (Weekend)

Calls to an 0845 number from a standard BT landline line will cost the caller (including VAT):
3.95p (Daytime)
1p (Evening)
1p (Weekend)

People that we deal with like these numbers because it gives them a national presence. Some of them do not want a local number and some like to provide various calling options to their customers.
They also like that they can move around freely and keep the same number with out any trouble.

We have not had any complaints about call charges or issues with that side of things.

They are not premium numbers, they are cheeper to call than mobiles, they can be very efficient business phone numbers depending on your requirements.

Bit more expensive than geographic numbers 'yes'. Unethical 'no'.