Global warming in the UK

[sirearl]

Global warming in great britain is this a problem when for 8 months of the year one freezes ones nuts off.

The last few days down here in Kent have seen temperatures of about 18 c,so am I complaining about global warming:rolleyes:

It would seem that the US has maybe suffered the most from the effects of global warming,maybe pay back time for there blatant use of the earth's resources.

On a personel level has anyone been affected by global warming ?


Earl

[RedEvo]

On a personel level has anyone been affected by global warming ?

Yes, I've been made very angry by the manipulation of 'evidence' on both sides of the debate whilst the good old tax payer gets done over and made to feel bad sat in the middle looking confused.

d

[ken_uk]

Im sure it was hotter in 1976 than it was last summer...

[Chris H]

Im sure it was hotter in 1976 than it was last summer...
I'm sure they used to hold ice fairs on the Thames for a few weeks every year back in Edwardian times, erm make that a century or two ago....

[AdamJ]

On a personel level has anyone been affected by global warming ?


That's a question nobody can answer with any degree of certainty. Even the scientists (e.g. Lovelock) who think everyone else is underestimating global warming say you can't tie global warming to individuals and individual events.

[Gill]

Im sure it was hotter in 1976 than it was last summer...

I agree I am sure it was too - and '77 silver jubilee year - what fun......

[RedEvo]

I'm sensing some kindred spirits in here ;)

d

[sirearl]

John Travolta global warming champion.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-23390848-details/With+five+private+jets,+Travolta+still+lectures+on +global+warming/article.do

[green mum]

I miss the blizzards we had back in the 70's when I was a little nipper. shame my daughter will probably never experience that (at least not in Plymouth)

I remember building a snowman as tall as my dad... aaaggh those were the days....

[AdamJ]

I remember in the late 70s Stuart Hall (he did our local news back then) standing in a village which was normally at the bottom of a reservoir, muttering about how we were out of water due to the long hot period of weather. That was shortly followed by a winter when small children could disappear over their heads in snowdrifts (we walked to school back then), and the following summer big areas of our town flooded due to excessive rain.

If anecdotal evidence has any scientific weight at all the worst of climate change must be behind us.* :)


*and lets face it, its completely meaningless as a scientific proof!

[Gill]

Stuart Hall -gosh yes I remember him - do you know he had a company called Stuart Hall International Travel - true - why mention it, why is it funny? Work it out come on!
Gill

[Comspec]

I find it difficult to convince myself to care too much - thinking that realistically what is the point of somewhere as small as Northern Ireland trying to save some fuel, etc, whilst the USA is guzzling away like a mad thing.

Stil, I suppose every little helps.

[RayB]

I posted this in another thread, but I'll repeat my thoughts on the issue here:

Global warming IS happening
BUT it would happen without humans - it is cyclical
For example, we had an Ice Age only 10,000 years ago, yet it was warm enough for the Romans to have vineyards in the UK 2000 years ago
HOWEVER, I do believe our modern ways are "tipping the balance" and exaggerating these natural rythyms.
The danger is hitting a tipping point whereby we hit a cycle phase that cannot be reversed
MORE of a worry is how we are wasting our natural non-renewable resources such as oil - and also the landfill burden - we cannot continue to bury and burn needless rubbish
We MUST recycle more and conserve resources for future generations in view of this.2p

[Smudge]

Is Global warming caused by us, or is the Sun just getting warmer. Some people think the later. The middle ages temperatures were warmer than they are now, just after the middle ages there was a mini 'Ice Age' when the Thames froze regularly, and the decade after the 2nd World War, the previous decade being the most industrial in history, temperatures dropped.

It could be that the world will ajust to hotter temperatures, it is thought once the world warms, there will be more cloud cover, a term called 'Global Dimming'. So protecting the world from the Sun's rays.

If you think of all the aspects that Global Warming has had on industry by reducing CO2 and all the changes that have been made to reduce CO2, what if CO2 wasn't to blame for the world getting warmer. Who will we point the finger at for saying its CO2.

I do know that we would of used renewable sourses of energy once fossil fuels have depleated.

[RedEvo]

I posted this in another thread, but I'll repeat my thoughts on the issue here:
Global warming IS happening
BUT it would happen without humans - it is cyclical
For example, we had an Ice Age only 10,000 years ago, yet it was warm enough for the Romans to have vineyards in the UK 2000 years ago
HOWEVER, I do believe our modern ways are "tipping the balance" and exaggerating these natural rythyms.
The danger is hitting a tipping point whereby we hit a cycle phase that cannot be reversed
MORE of a worry is how we are wasting our natural non-renewable resources such as oil - and also the landfill burden - we cannot continue to bury and burn needless rubbish
We MUST recycle more and conserve resources for future generations in view of this.2p

Great post, I broadly agree although I'm not convinced - based on the evidence I've read - that humans are tipping the balance. I remain open minded on this issue.

d

[RayB]

although I'm not convinced - based on the evidence I've read - that humans are tipping the balance. I remain open minded on this issue.

d

On that point I tend to agree, I remain open minded too. But I do think humans can contribute to exaggerating natural rythyms.

[Cred-X]

I don't want to depress anyone, but the UK is not exactly the best place for monitoring climate change because we live in a temporate zone.

Have a look at somewhere that is,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_ice_packs

Am I worried about the fact that there is considerably less ice than before? Yes.

Do I think that we humans have had an effect on that? Evidence would seem to suggest that we have.

[AdamJ]

Am I worried about the fact that there is considerably less ice than before? Yes.


Than before when?

To go back to Mr. Lovelock (chappy who proposed the Gaia hypothesis and very ardent campaigner for mankind doing something about climate change now) - even he points out that ice at both poles is unusual in the earth's history. Its having ice at both poles which is the more unusual event, not that it is now melting.

[RayB]

Which brings us back to the cyclical point I was making earlier

[England-Villages]

Yes, I've been made very angry by the manipulation of 'evidence' on both sides of the debate whilst the good old tax payer gets done over and made to feel bad sat in the middle looking confused.

d

I think you have a point here, which too, seems to be Steves major problem in Atlanta.

That is, the government only jumping on this issue because they saw in advance how they could manipulate the fears of people through the media, to then come up with so called solutions, whilst all the time, using it as a further reason to put greater pressures on business and the general public through more taxes and legislation.

This I think is wrong. The government, if they truly cared, would not do this and then lo and behold what do that go and do, but give the go ahead for the biggest ever open cast coal mine in the country to be situated in Wales.:eek:

Their hypocrisy on this issue is therefore astounding in it's audacity and cheek - on the one hand lecturing us all about how to become a greener and more eco responsible society, whilst adding to further legislation and taxes and then, behind everyones backs, doing the complete opposite themselves allowing the go ahead on this huge mining venture.

No wonder people get confused about what is the best thing to do and too, no wonder people get turned off the issues, if all they do, is to provide added burdens to peoples lives when they should be providing tangible benefits to make life easier, not harder.

I could go on, but will refrain at this point in time.

[Cred-X]

Than before when?



To be honest Adam, I don't know.

I'm sure there are a million and one different hypotheses buzzing around. But I can only go by what scientific evidence is being produced in the here and now. The North West Passgage being open is a pretty clear indication that something big is happening and it's starting to happen now.
The ice pack has reduced to 27% less than the last previously recorded low and 46% lessthan the average.

The fact is though that we can either try and do something about what we can see with our eyes right now, or just hope that it's a cycle of life and that the last 200 years of industial revolution, deforestation and ocean polution dont really count for anything.

My original post was just pointing out the fact that the UK is not the best place to try and gauge these things. Places that suffer extreme shifts, are.

[frockery]

MORE of a worry is how we are wasting our natural non-renewable resources such as oil - and also the landfill burden - we cannot continue to bury and burn needless rubbish

I think the depletion of oil and other finite natural resources is going to be the biggest challenge to our way of life and doing business in the not so distant future. We are so oil dependant that we are immensely vulnerable when supply is restricted and prices subsequently rocket.

Sadly, renewable energy developments and micro-renewable installations are starved of essential resources which could help shift the balance away from our current oil dependency and the govt's obsession with 'new nuclear'.

As for waste, it is pretty shameful the amount we consign to landfill and incineration when much of it can be reused or recycled. The polluter, not the punter, should be made to pay for the excess packaging we are forced to endure, and don't get me started on the menace of plastic bags....

Regards, Alison

[England-Villages]

Plastic bags and packaging is one of my major gripes too Alison, especially when you see the debris along many of the beaches and rives in this country, and too, the amount of plastics rubbish littering the oceans and sea floor.

[Jayne]

What gets me, on the TV they say things like, we haven't had floods like this in over 100 years, then blame it on global warming. Therefore what cause the floods 100 years ago? I don't think there were many cars, planes etc to blame?

Jayne

[Gill]

I too agree that global warming is happening and I do also believe that it is cyclical - it would have happened anyway, it has happened before.
Therefore we cannot stop it - however we can limit the damaging effects of our current greedy, speedy lifestyles which may act as a catalyst thus quickening the process - surely it is all about responsibility?
I understand the frustration - what difference can 'I' make - but if enough 'I's try it would add up and could make a difference - soon we won't have a choice anyway. Of course we have become cynical as we are given 'do as I say not as I do' situations but still it comes down to individual and corporate awareness, and responsibility, surely.
Just my twopenneth, hope you don't mind.
Gill

[Cornish Steve]

I think you have a point here, which too, seems to be Steves major problem in Atlanta.

That is, the government only jumping on this issue because they saw in advance how they could manipulate the fears of people through the media, to then come up with so called solutions, whilst all the time, using it as a further reason to put greater pressures on business and the general public through more taxes and legislation.
You got it in one. More taxes means more money for the politicians, which in turn means more power for the politicians. Any excuse will do, and environmentalism is serving their purposes quite nicely.

The whole issue of climate change is, frankly, confusing. We don't know the underlying causes - or even if there is anything other than the usual cycle. If we do nothing, we may learn in a century's time that we screwed up the planet. If we become obsessed about retreating to nature, we risk the advance of civilization only to find we had nothing to do with climate change. I'm sure we all want to do something anyway, because we've nothing to lose, right? However, it shouldn't be at the cost of depriving people of personal freedoms or forcing an unwanted ideology on everyone. Common sense should prevail.

What gets me, on the TV they say things like, we haven't had floods like this in over 100 years, then blame it on global warming. Therefore what cause the floods 100 years ago? I don't think there were many cars, planes etc to blame?
Spot on. Do they think we're just daft?

[Jayne]

I think though I can scientifically answer the last ice age, from the scientists who discovered that cows farts are adding to global warming. It's quite logical really, dinosaurs are bigger, so fart more and caused a bigger catastrophe.

I should have been a scientist!

Jayne :)

[England-Villages]

You got it in one.

I got it on one of your posts in the business general section when I replied with the 'Ahhhhhhhhhh', at that point, I could see where you were and had been coming from. Sorry it took me so long.:D

[RayB]

You got it in one. More taxes means more money for the politicians, which in turn means more power for the politicians. Any excuse will do, and environmentalism is serving their purposes quite nicely.

Spot on. The "crime" in all this is how politicians are jumping on the issue purely as an excuse to levy more stealth taxes. E.g. the proposed extra taxation on collecting your rubbish.

That is hardly likely to get the average Joe in favour of looking after the planet and our resources is it?

We should be getting INCENTIVES to be greener - not TAXES

And that is what it all boils down to really - looking after the planet as best we can for future generations.

[Cornish Steve]

We should be getting INCENTIVES to be greener - not TAXES
I agree entirely.

- Introduce national award schemes for the most eco-friendly home projects.
- Award discounted rates to those who cut their water or electricity use by 20% or more.
- Abolish VAT for goods that are formally categorised as eco-friendly.
- Give a tax refund to anyone who buys a hybrid car (this works nicely in the US).

While I fundamentally disagree with taxes in general (it's legalised theft and it assumes government knows better how to spend our money than we do), I have no problem with surcharges that are used to subsidise related items. For example, charge a 5% surcharge on electricity from regular sources in order to subsidise and hence reduce the cost of electricity from greener sources. We must just be sure the government doesn't keep any of it but reallocates it all.

[AdamJ]

I think the depletion of oil and other finite natural resources is going to be the biggest challenge to our way of life and doing business in the not so distant future.

There was a great article in New Scientist about 6 months or so ago about other resources than oil and it was shocking. I wish I'd kept it - it was stuff like critical minerals in computer chip production have 10 years of known supply, etc. It really stressed the case of the pressures for innovation in the next few decades aren't going to be for increased technology but more about finding different ways to make today's technology continue to work.

[Cornish Steve]

I know this isn't exactly hi-tech, but has Britain introduced multiple-occupancy lanes on motorways at all? It's a good way to encourage car-sharing and hence to reduce significantly our dependence on oil. Related to this is making motorways toll roads, with reduced rates if more than one person is in the car.

[Cred-X]

Hi Steve,

Well we have 2+ car sharing lanes on a few of Bristols main roads, but not that many and I haven't seen it on any motoways.
As for Toll roads, wouldn't that just become yet another tax on the motorist?
I thought we did away with the olde worlde Tolls in favour of the annual road fund licence. If I'm on a business trip and have to use the motorway, charging me a toll for only being a single person in the car would be just another penalty or tax.
I think 2+ is a great idea for commuter routes. Let's hope they expand on it and try to promote it.

[AdamJ]

Related to this is making motorways toll roads, with reduced rates if more than one person is in the car.

Regarding tolls per-se, I see you're in the US where if you're going long distances the interstates are pretty much the only viable route to get to your destination in the same decade in which you started. Here, the UK is so small that's not the case - (although Cornwall was about as far from the rest of the UK as you can get in England!). If the motorways become tolls people will just use other A roads instead - e.g. from here to Birmingham I can go up the M5, but if that has a toll then its just as easy to go up the A46 to Evesham and up to Birmingham that way. Net result of the toll, no reduced traffic overall, just increased congestion on the lesser roads going through our towns and villages.

Added to that, people on business trips will just add it to their expenses, and their employers will just add it to the cost of their goods and services meaning the end consumer will just end up paying that little bit more. Again, with no impact on traffic.

Multiple-occupancy could possibly work in London and Birmingham but otherwise it seems like it has little potential for any major reductions in journeys or CO2 emissions. In Tewkesbury you can contact a central car-sharing number but the chances of someone going from the same starting point, along the same route, to the same destination, leaving and returning at the same times are very remote, particularly in the smaller cities, even those such as Manchester or Leeds. There may be a slight reduction in CO2 emission from some people who can use it, but probably not 'significant'. You have that nice interstate right into Atlanta with the multi-occupancy lane slightly barrier-ed off from the other routes and whenever I've driven down there it is much quicker in the rush-hour if there are a couple of you and you can use it, but that's in Atlanta - in Wigan it wouldn't work quite so well.

[Cornish Steve]

As for Toll roads, wouldn't that just become yet another tax on the motorist?
I thought we did away with the olde worlde Tolls in favour of the annual road fund licence.
I agree completely that the net result must not be more taxes; however, instead of charging everyone the same amount regardless of how many people use a vehicle (annual licence), I'm thinking that a toll of some type would allow the charge to be less for those who share a vehicle - another example of a reward for using less fuel. I take your point though.

You have that nice interstate right into Atlanta with the multi-occupancy lane slightly barrier-ed off from the other routes and whenever I've driven down there it is much quicker in the rush-hour if there are a couple of you and you can use it, but that's in Atlanta - in Wigan it wouldn't work quite so well.
Yes, I was sharing an idea that works well here to see whether there's any value in running with it in Britain. For those who commute every day by car, there's nothing worse than being stuck in traffic day after day. The authorities can 'reward' those who share a journey by letting them use a 'fast track' lane. But maybe it wouldn't.

In some cities, some serious bicycle lanes might make a difference - although rotten weather might be a put-off. I used to cycle 3-4 miles every day to a railway station on my journey to London, but it was no fun when it was pouring down with rain. Without a bike lane, I never felt that safe driving on very busy roads.