The "best" ecommerce product

[Simon Brummitt]

If you are serious about developing an e-commerce site iShop offer a one-stop solution. Hosting, domain services, email, software, advanced tools, stats analysis, payment solution, SEO and marketing assistance and much more. With over ten years experience and hundreds of sites developed the iShop solution offers everything in one tried and tested package. It isn't cheap but it is most definitely the best. ishop.co.uk is the portal address just click 'Build a shop' link under services on the left for more details or call Mat Middlecott who is project manager.

[awebapart.com]

the iShop solution offers everything in one tried and tested package. It isn't cheap but it is most definitely the best
Coincidently, I have recently added an article to the FAQ section of my site called What is the best ecommerce solution (http://www.awebapart.com/home/faq/Best_ecommerce_solution)? - with the upshot of the article being that, in my opinion, no-one can say they have the best ecommerce solition per se, because a solution is dependent upon a problem, i.e. what a business needs, and different businesses will need different things. As a simple example, we offer a hosted managed ecommerce service (http://www.awebapart.com) too, but not every business wants a hosted managed service (and some have good reasons for this), so in that respect any hosted managed service, your service or our service, will not even be close to being the best solution for those businesses.

[Simon Brummitt]

We can say that we have the best e-commerce solution if the problem you are trying to solve is to sell products online. Our proven track record and experience ensure that the solutions we offer actually work. We have invested millions in iShop so that our merchants need not worry about anything other than the products they sell and fulfilment. No other solution on offer in the UK comes close to what we provide. That is not to say that what you offer isn't going to suit some people, many people on this forum have sites that they are happy with using PayPal or Google basket and I guess it goes some way to reaching their goals. Those solutions would not impress a serious business expecting to turnover say in excess of £2 million per annun. We have merchants that have reached £1 million a month online sales from a zero start just a few years ago. Unfortunately not every business can reach those dizzy heights due to the type of products that they sell, but what iShop does do is make you top in your field online, if you have a serious business that can compete on price and delivery times. You will show top of Google and receive free traffic to most of your key-words. However, it takes more than just a professional looking website to succeed, selling online requires exactly the same foresight and business acumen as selling through any other channel.

[Dawg]

Simon,
I just dropped into this thread as it has resurfaced after a dormancy. Your claims might be true. IShop might be as good as you say. But your post, I'm afraid, just comes across as sub spam blather. Shouting "I'm best, I'm best", in a hitherto reasoned conversation doesn't really put your product in the best light, however good it might be.

[Simon Brummitt]

Hi Dawg

Should anyone wish me to back up our claims I would be happy to do so. When you are the best it doesn't hurt to say so. Except here maybe.

[Dawg]

I'm sure you can back your claims.
yadda yadda yawn.

[Simon Brummitt]

That's not what I had in mind!

[Dawg]

Simon:
You will show top of Google and receive free traffic to most of your key-words.

On your site you have 4 client sites featured: Active toys, Tool Shop Direct, Price Buster Golf and Pocket Gifts. So let's Google:
activetoys.co.uk. Search for "activity toys"
toolshopdirect.co.uk. Search for "tools"
pricebustergolf.co.uk. Search for "golf clubs"
pocketgift.co.uk. Search for "gifts" and for "small gifts"

Google.co.uk page 1: none
Google.co.uk page 2: nada
Google.co.uk page 3: zilch

Now I only scanned those 12 pages and may have missed one, but "top of Google"?
Dang! Tell me it ain't so, Joe!

[DuaneJackson]

Off topic, but it's entertaining - so I'm splicing it off into a new topic.

[RedEvo]

You old Dawg you ;)

Lovin that post!!

d

[RayB]

Simon:


Google.co.uk page 1: none
Google.co.uk page 2: nada
Google.co.uk page 3: zilch


LOL - Quality post

Anywhere near the top for spam though?

[Simon Brummitt]

This is probably not the thread to prove a point but I will attempt to teach you something here. If you will listen that is. Firstly Active Toys sell branded goods, so a search for "activity toys" would not benefit our company much, so lets look at some of the things that we actually sell online.
Paddling Pool Heaters - Google No.1
Swingball - Google No.3
Trampoline covers - Google No.2
Bestway Pools - Google No.9
Frame Pools - Google No.3
I could go on for over 200 first page listings on things we sell that people actually search for. We do have many generic terms like 'garden games' 'outdoor toys' that appear on googles first page. The people searching for 'activity toys' are not buyers they are lookers. Once they find a toy they like they will no doubt search for it by name, that’s when we will appear and sell it to them.

Pricebuster golf is one of our merchants so I can't tell too much here but I can tell you that you would not mind their multi million pound turnover for yourself. I can tell you that they had 185,000 unique visitors last month.

Pocket gift shop is ours so I can tell you anything. It used to be called zipposhop.co.uk but we agreed with Zippo in the US to change the name a year or so ago. My point being that we sell mainly Zippos.

Page one listings for the following useful terms:
zippo
zippos
zippo uk
zippo lighter
zippo shop
engraved zippo

I could also demonstrate that for each of the individual items we have first page listings.

So the first lesson here is to target USEFUL keywords that will sell your products. I notice that you sell 'dog treats' and show no listings on Google for that search term. If you would like FREE assistance to change your google visibility (to page one) just ask.

[RayB]

Simon,

Thanks for the "lesson" and "for teaching" us idiots how great you are. The reason you have gotten this response is that the thread is spammy and dictartorial - it not how we do things here.

We help - not preach

Welcome

[Simon Brummitt]

This is probably not the thread to prove a point but I will attempt to teach you something here. If you will listen that is. Firstly Active Toys sell branded goods, so a search for "activity toys" would not benefit our company much, so lets look at some of the things that we actually sell online.
Paddling Pool Heaters - Google No.1
Swingball - Google No.3
Trampoline covers - Google No.2
Bestway Pools - Google No.9
Frame Pools - Google No.3
I could go on for over 200 first page listings on things we sell that people actually search for. We do have many generic terms like 'garden games' 'outdoor toys' that appear on googles first page. The people searching for 'activity toys' are not buyers they are lookers. Once they find a toy they like they will no doubt search for it by name, that’s when we will appear and sell it to them.

Pricebuster golf is one of our merchants so I can't tell too much here but I can tell you that you would not mind their multi million pound turnover for yourself. I can tell you that they had 185,000 unique visitors last month.

Pocket gift shop is ours so I can tell you anything. It used to be called zipposhop.co.uk but we agreed with Zippo in the US to change the name a year or so ago. My point being that we sell mainly Zippos.

Page one listings for the following useful terms:
zippo
zippos
zippo uk
zippo lighter
zippo shop
engraved zippo

I could also demonstrate that for each of the individual items we have first page listings.

So the first lesson here is to target useful keywords that will sell your products. I notice that you sell 'dog treats' and show no listings on Google for that search term. If you would like FREE assistance to change your google visibility just ask.

[DuaneJackson]

This is probably not the thread to prove a point but I will attempt to teach you something here. If you will listen that is.

Hi Simon,

I'm not really interested in the discussion about whether your ecommerce system is the dogs wotsits or not, but don't you think it's a bit arrogant to assume the participants of the thread need you to teach them anything?

It just struck me as being a bit patronising and likely to rub people up the wrong way.

Anyway - welcome to UKBF and enjoy your stay!

[Dawg]

I'm very happy to learn, and thanks for the offer.
"Dog treat" is a very competitive term, and I wish I ranked for it. Maybe you would be kind enough to get me there.
On lesser terms, but quite good ones, lets see: (organic listings only)
"natural dog treats" page 1 number 1 Google uk
"pure dog treats" page1 number 1 Google uk
"organic dog treats" page 1 number 2 Google uk, (dang!), but...
"organic dog biscuit" page 1 number 1 Google uk

But I don't make claims. Or excuses.

[Simon Brummitt]

I didn't call anyone an idiot, you just responded like one. My reply was not intended to be spammy. I only preach what I know to be true and provable. I help anyone who is prepared to ask, that is my business. I have personally invested millions of my own cash into e-commerce and am passionate about it. iShop didn't just happen it took many people ten hard years to create.

[Simon Brummitt]

Duane

I apologise to anyone here that got rubbed up the wrong way. If saying, implying, proving or suggesting that I know something to be true is arrogant, well so be it. For those that would like to benefit from our experience I will always help when and where I can. I am not always right, just most of the time.

[RayB]

I only preach what I know to be true and provable.

"preach" - and there lies the problem.

[DuaneJackson]

Hi Simon,

No need to apologise - it doesn't matter to me if you rub people up the wrong way.

I think Ray was spot on above in saying:

"The reason you have gotten this response is that the thread is spammy and dictartorial - it not how we do things here."

This is a very busy, useful and friendly forum. I'm sure we could benefit from your wisdom and you may even learn a thing or two as well.

My comments were really as a disinterested party trying to warn you that you're coming across as a bit of a cock, which isn't the best way to reap the benefits of this site or portray yourself in a public forum.

[Dawg]

Cor Si!
Your not even on first page for "zip it":)

Yours etc,
'umble Dawg.

[franco_24]

There has to be some way of harnessing all this tit for tat google searching into a new kind of google wack for business. It could catch on with the general public and just look what it would do for trade! I mean if I had a dog I would have bought some of the dog biscuits.

The problem with key words is that every one has a different interpretation of what they want people searching for. For example Dawg quite rightly demonstrated that he actually has got some very important key words for his product. Obviously he has researched it. Similarly with ishops they have the right key words for the branded products that they want found on google. Interesting what happens when I type in 'dawg biscuits' LOL.

Generic search for camping for example. Do you go for tents or the other equipment that goes with it? Do you go for brand or colour or price or type? Whatever you do you won't catch everyone. You just have to try and catch most.

:)

[Simon Brummitt]

The honest answer is that you go for as much as you can get. It is unlikely that someone looking for a 'fly fishing reel' would search 'fly fishing' on Google. It is more likely that they will search for the product generic term ie.'fly fishing reel' or even for an actual reel ie.'leeda LC3'. However the term 'fly fishing' will generate the most traffic, but not necessarily the most orders. It takes longer to get the higher level key words to the top but it is worth the effort in the long run.

[RayB]

I'm very happy to learn, and thanks for the offer.
"Dog treat" is a very competitive term, and I wish I ranked for it.


This is quite a good SERP you have though:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2005-18%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=dog+biscuits&meta=


:D

[awebapart.com]

This thread has been created by moderators as an off-shoot to the OPs original reply moved from another thread (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=31989&page=4), so for any newcomers please don't take it too out of context (i.e. the OP didn't create a new thread entitled 'The best ecommerce product').

However some statements do need picking up on...

We can say that we have the best e-commerce solution if the problem you are trying to solve is to sell products online.
As a supplier who also provides hosted managed ecommerce solutions, I can say with fair certainty that both your solution and my solution are not the best ecommerce solutions if the problem we are trying to solve is to sell products online for these scenarios:

1. Companies that require ownership of their own bespoke ecommerce systems hosted on their own servers either due to their sheer size or intended growth size (e.g. amazon, dabs, amazon/dabs wannabees), their positioning, their unique requirements, their requirement to not be tied to any other supplier, their need to own their system as an asset of the company which they might later intend to sell, (e.g. venture owned startups, entrepreneurs businesses) etc

2. Companies that are selling products with special requirements that are not the typical 'put in a box and deliver products', e.g. custom designed (consumer to consumer) products like www.zazzle.com (http://www.zazzle.com), online design your own business card type products like vistaprint.co.uk, digital rights management electronic download products like itunes, ondemand video products, realtime booking products like holidays (that need to link in to operator's back end systems), car rental, subscription based products with recurring payments, other complex B2B (business-to-business) or C2C (consumer-to-consumer) requirements that typical B2C (business to consumer) ecommerce solutions do not cater for etc.

3. Products that you want to auction, i.e. the ebay way

4. Second hand products that Fred Bloggs wants to sell, again ebay might be better

5. and generally, companies with major show-stopping requirement X, where X isn't a feature of our solutions

Please try to avoid making sweeping statements.

Those solutions would not impress a serious business expecting to turnover say in excess of £2 million per annun.

Even quoting impressive numbers for your hosted managed service does not necessarily make your solution the best choice all round. There are plenty of larger clients of hosted managed services from other suppliers who obviously had good reason for going with their chosen supplier instead, e.g. Venda's clients (http://www.venda.com/page/ukclients).

Looking at your portfolio I am sure you offer a good service, and your sites have got some (not all) onsite SEO features in place. Generally I'm a big believer of the hosted managed service model as a solution that can meet many (not all) company's needs, because it should mean that the supplier improves the system as part of the service, and every system can be improved, even the 'best' ones!

Welcome to the forum.

[kulture]

You ar right simon, the best key phrases to optimise for are the ones that people who are looking to buy use. Not those generic terms that possibly have the most searches. Obviously the wordtracker type site that can come up with key prases AND conversion rates will be a winner.

What I have found (and use myself) is that when you are looking to buy something, you use as specific a search phrase as you can. Typically down to the model number etc. Thus in any ecommerce package I believe that the individual page titles for the individual product details MUST be able to be set by the admin. Anything less is no good.

[Simon Brummitt]

Dawg

Am I right that you are using multiple domains selling the same products.

www.dog-treats.co.uk (http://www.dog-treats.co.uk/)
www.dogstreats.co.uk (http://www.dogstreats.co.uk/)

I don't know if you are aware that this is one of the deadly sins on Google and can get you blacklisted completely. It is extremely difficult to get your listings back once they do de-list you. It is fine having multiple domains but they should all point to ONE main domain. Be careful how you link, I know that there is a right and wrong way. I would need to check with our tech team which way to do it. Once you have done that I have a short list of things that will improve your Google listing for 'dog treats'

[Chris Kaday]

I would be more interested to know how the companies you mentioned broke the million mark in such a short time - OK OK your system but not just system surely

Chris Kaday

[DuaneJackson]

Am I right that you are using multiple domains selling the same products

I wasn't aware of that one. Can you give us an references for it?

I'm aware of duplicate content issues - but duplicate products?

[RayB]

Am I right that you are using multiple domains selling the same products.
I don't know if you are aware that this is one of the deadly sins on Google and can get you blacklisted completely.

What a load of utter bolloc*ks

Deliberabtely creating link farms will get you banned but there is absolutely nothing in Googles guidelines to stop you having a handful of sites on the same topic.

Jeez

[Dawg]

I don't know if you are aware that this is one of the deadly sins on Google and can get you blacklisted completely.

This would mean that nobody could have any testing sites, which would surprise me. Dogstreats is just that. But please do let us know what your techies say: hey, thats what a forum is about.:)
There has been a recent thread (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=40844)about Duplicate content, if that would interest you at all.

[DuaneJackson]

I wasn't aware of that one. Can you give us an references for it?
What a load of utter bolloc*ks


The above is an example if duplicate content - but not the kind that will get you in trouble with google. They say exactly the same thing but with different levels of tact : )

[Tin]

If you are serious about developing an e-commerce site iShop offer a one-stop solution. Hosting, domain services, email, software, advanced tools, stats analysis, payment solution, SEO and marketing assistance and much more. With over ten years experience and hundreds of sites developed the iShop solution offers everything in one tried and tested package. It isn't cheap but it is most definitely the best. ishop.co.uk is the portal address just click 'Build a shop' link under services on the left for more details or call Mat Middlecott who is project manager.

Just thought I'd add my 2p worth. I was just about to delete the above as spam before Duane split the post earlier today. I don't think it helps Simon to be seen coming in guns blazing about your product, we're all passionate about what we do but are maybe a bit quieter in how we do it.

Aplologies but thought that needed saying.

Anyhow... welcome to the forum. Look forward to seeing you around the place.:)

Ray

[Simon Brummitt]

Give me one good reason why you would want more than one site selling the same ten products if it isn’t to obtain multiple listings for the same products. It isn't bo*****s. We have a merchant with the same issues.

www.pineonline.co.uk (http://www.pineonline.co.uk/)
www.furnituremad.co.uk (http://www.furnituremad.co.uk/)
www.furniture247.co.uk (http://www.furniture247.co.uk/)
www.suitesofas.co.uk (http://www.suitesofas.co.uk/)

He is blacklisted on Google for doing exactly what Doug is doing. He has spent the last two years trying to sort out the mess. Doug carry on at your peril. Perhaps Ray knows more than me, take your pick.

[DuaneJackson]

Simon, please can you give us an authoritive citation for the claim that having multiple sites selling the same product will get you penalised?

As far as I am aware, if the copy if different then there is no problem.

[RedEvo]

so lets look at some of the things that we actually sell online.
Paddling Pool Heaters - Google No.1
Swingball - Google No.3
Trampoline covers - Google No.2
Bestway Pools - Google No.9
Frame Pools - Google No.3
I could go on for over 200.........


The estimated world search volumes in these make interesting reading.

d

[RayB]

He is blacklisted on Google for doing exactly what Doug is doing. He has spent the last two years trying to sort out the mess. Doug carry on at your peril. Perhaps Ray knows more than me, take your pick.

They may be blacklisted, but it won't be for having a handful of sites on the same topic, unless they sites were heavily interlinked to create a link farm, but even then they were bound to have been doing something far more naughty

Perhaps Ray knows more than me, take your pick

I sure do, by virtue of having read the Google Webmaster Guidelines and Terms of Service many times and by regularly reading Matt Cutts Blog for understanding how to do white hat SEO

PS - your client sites are not blacklisted - you know that I guess

[Simon Brummitt]

I hadn't read the guidelines for a while, even at a glance it makes it quite clear to me that you should not do what Dawg is doing.

<quote>Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66359).

Both shops sell the same ten products. How much more substantial can you get?

<quote> A good rule of thumb is whether you'd feel comfortable explaining what you've done to a website that competes with you. Another useful test is to ask, "Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?"

Clearly it does not help Dougs users.

[RayB]

<quote>Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66359).

You are confusing duplicate content with products.

Also, you did not answer me when I pointed out that the urls you quoted are not blacklisted - but you knew that already I guess?

Are those sites using your platform?

If Yes, you might want to learn about "friendly url's"??

Please feel free to ask any questions on e-commerce - we are here to help you

[DuaneJackson]

Please feel free to ask any questions on e-commerce - we are here to help you

Ditto. I'm happy to give you any pointers you may need, Simon.

[Dawg]

Simon,
I'm not sure if you actually read the Google guidelines you linked to. I think you should.

"Duplicate content on a site is not grounds for action on that site unless it appears that the intent of the duplicate content is to be deceptive and manipulate search engine results. If your site suffers from duplicate content issues, and you don't follow the advice listed above, we do a good job of choosing a version of the content to show in our search results."

Nothing I have done on my testing site is either deceptive or manipulative, and in fact content is never as much as 85% similar, the generally accepted cutoff point.
"
"A good rule of thumb is whether you'd feel comfortable explaining what you've done to a website that competes with you. Another useful test is to ask, "Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?"

Well yes. It helps my users as they can find me in another way, If the search engines didn't exist there would be no conversation, so that's a strange little thing they've said.

BTW, is "Doug" the same as Dawg? Confusing..

"He is blacklisted on Google for doing exactly what Doug is doing. He has spent the last two years trying to sort out the mess. Doug carry on at your peril. Perhaps Ray knows more than me, take your pick."

Fortunately I don't have to make a pick. There are several very knowledgeable people on this forum who proffer first rate advice without bluster, and here, and off forum the consensus of advice is that I am doing nothing that Google will penalize.

I hope that I'm wrong, but I do feel that because I had a go at your, ahem, interesting claims of national superiority,("No other solution on offer in the UK comes close to what we provide...it is most definitely the best" ), you are doing a wounded walrus impression, lashing out at me without thought.

It would be great to have someone of your experience and obvious dedication contributing here, and I suggest we all leave this now; start again another day.

[Simon Brummitt]

Dawg sells ten products on each site. The names of those products are identical as are the products you will receive if you purchase them. OK some of the text may vary, but it is clear to me that the only benefit is to gain more traffic from search engines. It does not benefit his customers.

We do use friendly URL's on new sites ( www.heat-outdoors.co.uk (http://www.heat-outdoors.co.uk) was launched yesterday) but it will take some time for all of our customers to change to the new system. It makes precious little difference to rankings on Google anyway.

As for the urls, yes I was aware that they are not blacklisted, I should have been clearer in my statement. My customer lost 90% of his free traffic as a result of having multiple sites selling identical products. It was as bad as being blacklisted. He still has some top listings 'leather sofas' is one example. I can assure you that it cost him a great deal of revenue.

[RayB]

My (http://www.My) customer lost 90% of his free traffic as a result of having multiple sites selling identical products.

Wrong, although your customer may have lost 90% of his traffic for duplicate content, nothing to do with products.

Ahem, a well known search engine beginning with G has multiple sites - some ending with .com others ending .co.uk, .fr, .au, .ca - no duplicate content penalties there.

Again, you will find this Forum as wealth of help and information and you can fill the extensive gaps in your e-commerce knowledge for free by asking questions - as many as you like.

[Dawg]

Simon
OK some of the text may vary, but it is clear to me that the only benefit is to gain more traffic from search engines

Thank Gawd you aren't in charge of Google, then 'eh?
You are talking the utmost drivel. Apart from the FAQS page (66%), the similar content % never goes above 23%, and on the product page it is 10%. They are on different hosts, at different domains, have no recognizable duplication that will be penalized: yet you, (who has to ask his 'techies' for backup, and who admits they have only scanned a source), you continue your preaching, based on your experience with a client who might have made a cobblers of it, or might have had that cobblers made for him.
I say Pah!

[Simon Brummitt]

Dawg

Google can see what you are doing which is why you have such poor listings. Why waste your time on all these sites when one carefully managed site would bring greater rewards?
I hadn't realised at first that you had created your own mini link farm. Not one of these sites offers any real new content. They are a waste of your time and money. Good luck, may you sell many biscuits and be happy.
End of.
Simon


www.bone-o-fido.co.uk (http://www.bone-o-fido.co.uk)
http://dogstreats.co.uk/
http://dawgmarkets.co.uk
http://idawg.co.uk
www.dog-treat.co.uk (http://www.dog-treat.co.uk)
www.dawganic.co.uk (http://www.dawganic.co.uk)
www.dawgpix.co.uk (http://www.dawgpix.co.uk)
www.organic-dog.co.uk (http://www.organic-dog.co.uk)

www.calmdawg.com (http://www.calmdawg.com)

P.S. Sorry if I missed any.

[RayB]

Dawg

Google can see what you are doing which is why you have such poor listings.



Simon,

You are way out of your depth now and are frankly just coming across as a prize prat.

Finally, you have the offer to join us and let us help you fill in the massive gaps in your e-commerce knowledge.

You have a huge amount to learn, but we are here to help - you are not beyond saving (yet)

[DuaneJackson]

you are not beyond saving (yet)

Sorry Ray, I have to disagree there.

I've come to the conclusion that this entire thread is just one big wind-up anyway! : )

[Simon Brummitt]

Ray, get a life.

Out of my depth, you are joking of course. We can all learn from each other, but the gaps in my knowledge are far from massive. I never stop learning but it frustrates the hell out me when I know that I am right on this. Dawg can get on without my help as he can clearly do no wrong. Why should I care anyway? Prize Prat - no not me. I have learned nothing here today other than to keep my opinions to myself. Which is what I will do from now on.
Typically British - Support the under Dawg.

[RayB]

Ray, get a life.

oh, hit me baby one more timeOut of my depth, you are joking of course.Nopebut the gaps in my knowledge are far from massive.
You are the biggest prat, and the most self centred, I have witnessed here.

Of course, I could stomach that if you were correct in your aspersions - but you are constantly talking SH*T - so never mind.

[DuaneJackson]

And I think that draws us to the end of this thread.

It's not going to go anywhere useful now. So I'll lock it.

Simon, this thread is #1 on google for your name. If you'd like the thread deleted then just PM me and I'll do so.