PPC, SEO or both?

[DT07]

I am trying to find ways to market my website online through PPC advertising. I have set up an account however am finding it really time consuming to manage and is not producing the sort of traffic I require. Is it worth me getting someone to manage this for me - budget is only about £100 -£150 per month at the moment.

Also - is it worth me investing in SEO if I am spending money on PPC at this early stage in my business?

Finally - am finding it difficult to convert visits to bookings

Website is totaleating.co.uk

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks
Deepa

[I, Brian]

I don't know any PPC companies who will manage an account as small as £100-£150. You may want to read up on PPC management to help make the process easier for you.

As for SEO - good for established sites, not so good for newer sites. And if you're only prepared to stump up £100-£150/month for PPC you probably won't get much for a similar spend on SEO.

2c.

[DuaneJackson]

It's not worth looking at getting a company to manage it with that budget.

PPC and SEO are things that shoudl be used together. "accounting software" was costing us a fortune in PPC fees. So we made sure we were number one in the natural results for this and other expensive terms and we pay for ads on other, cheaper terms.

[Words of Magic]

I would test drive the pay per click marketing vehicle first before forking out funds for SEO work. Pay per click advertising is time consuming and many people make costly mistakes for example paying too much per click, using the wrong ad, using the wrong keywords and a host of other issues.

There are numerous companies that offer pay per click advertising programs, and each of their terms and conditions are slightly different. For example, some of them allow you to write just about anything you want in your actual ads, while others are very strict about ad content. In addition, some pay per click advertising programs are much more successful than others. Before signing up with any of them, you should do some research to see which programs have the best reputations for helping website operators turn clicks into sales.

If other marketing methods just aren't working for you, maybe it's time for you to check out pay per click advertising. This is a very straightforward, easy way to get hundreds, or even thousands, of potential customers to view your products or services with the intent to buy.

I have completed Google’s Adwords marketing training and have achieved the accredited status of "Google Adwords Professional". As such, I understand Google Adwords inside and out. This is an important qualification in Internet marketing, because pay-per-click programs can change almost daily, leaving you frustrated and confused.

If you need any help, don't hesistate to get in contact.

Wishing you all the success in the world,

[SteveGibson]

Finally - am finding it difficult to convert visits to bookings

Website is totaleating.co.uk

Looking at your site, I can't imagine why anyone would book through it.

What's wrong with calling up the restuarant of your choice and making the booking over the phone?

Or, at least, that's what I'd be thinking if I arrived at your site.

I'd suspect many of your visitors might have the same thought and that's why they're not booking through you.

Steve

[sirearl]

I agree with Steve where's the phone number,if I want a cab I phone.

You can do SEO to a usefull level its not difficult ,just read up some SEO sites and it won't cost you a bean .start with http://www.highrankings.com/ there's loads more good info on the web.

same goes for PPC there has been lots of good posting on here about PPC managment by Steve ,Ibrian and others.

Earl

[RayB]

Hi Deepa,

I'd agree with Steve and Earl. First impressions the site looks like a Restaurant Directory. If the end game is to get the visitor to book a table this is not obvious to me.

I'd also agree with Duane's comments - when we launched we had to rely solely on PPC to target our keywords - costing £'000's per month.

However, we started SEO in tandem so as the site aged we would be organically ranked high for our main keyphrases - of which we are now thereabouts/within touching distance.

This then allows me to continue using PPC for a larger variety of much less competitive keywords that are not suited to onpage/organic optimisation.

[PintoPotts]

Take a look at my marketing blog (link below) there are two articles you will find of interest:

'Yes or No to SEO' and 'How to waste money with Google Adwords'.

Please feel free to leave a comment on the blog.

Good luck!

[Pet Nanny]

I would never use adwords. Tried it once and it was a complete waste of time. Neither do I look on the pay per click companies when I use google.

Just thought I would add my two penneth.

Nina
www.ninasnanniesforpets.co.uk (http://www.ninasnanniesforpets.co.uk)

[SteveGibson]

Tried it once and it was a complete waste of time.

I'm curious, what "was a complete waste of time"?

Wouldn't it be fair to say that you tried it and you couldn't turn a profit with it for your business.

Or to put it another way:

you tried it and you couldn't turn a profit with it for your business

In which case, it's just like saying:

"I tried to SEO my site once, I didn't increase my search engine traffic so SEO is a complete waste of time"

Steve

[sabian1982]

Personally i'd prioritise SEO then PPC. What you need to think is that even when the SEO aspect is finished (for the time being) the results of the SEO will live on - good results from the SEO is also more likely to generate a better long term return. PPC on the other hand will stop as soon as you run out of money or stop the campaign - hence its essentially money that you will never see again. Just my 2 pence :)

[sirearl]

Personally i'd prioritise SEO then PPC. What you need to think is that even when the SEO aspect is finished (for the time being) the results of the SEO will live on - good results from the SEO is also more likely to generate a better long term return. PPC on the other hand will stop as soon as you run out of money or stop the campaign - hence its essentially money that you will never see again. Just my 2 pence :)

As An SEO I can't agree,There are only 10 top spots on most SE,so what do the other thousands and thousands of websites do.

They either spend a small fortune on a top SEO with no guarantee of getting one of those top spots.

Or they Go for PPC which will Guarantee them a top spot:)

With PPC it all comes down to your return on your PPC investment.I have associates who run PPC very successfully and have done so for long periods.

If you are suddenly presented with a highly profitable product PPC is unbeatable.

If your spending £3.00 on PPC and it returns you £5.00 your way ahead of a site thats on page 3 of google:)

Earl

[DuaneJackson]

For once Earl, I think we can agree!

I'd also add - SEO takes time, especially on a new site.With PPC you can be up and runniing straight away. So it makes sense to prioritise getting PPC sorted before you start on SEO

[sirearl]

For once Earl, I think we can agree!



Blimey Duane do you mean to say you have not agreed with every pearl of wisdom I have uttered to date.

No wonder you ain't got that crappy old Aston yet :D

[DuaneJackson]

Blimey Duane do you mean to say you have not agreed with every pearl of wisdom I have uttered to date.

Most certainly! I don't say anything though. I just sit here at my desk and shake my head in disdain and say to myself "what IS he on about?"

[sirearl]

Most certainly! I don't say anything though. I just sit here at my desk and shake my head in disdain and say to myself "what IS he on about?"


Are the folly of youth :rolleyes:

[RedEvo]

Just to concur with others. PPC = quick results, SEO is for the long haul.

d

[Yorganic]

budget is only about £100 -£150 per month at the moment.

Budget is irrelevant - what's your CTR and conversion rate? That would help us supply advice.

Finally - am finding it difficult to convert visits to bookings

Thats more likely to be an issue with the site not the campaign unless you are attracting the wrong people via poor keyword choice or poor ad writing.

As for SEO, I'd prove you business case via PPC first if is at all in question.

[SteveGibson]

Just to concur with others. PPC = quick results, SEO is for the long haul.

I agree too, particularly if the domain is fairly young.

PPC to test the business model and make sure the site converts its traffic.

Then, once you've got a site that's making a profit from paid traffic, you can start work on bringing more and more traffic to it.

Originally Posted by DT07
Finally - am finding it difficult to convert visits to bookings

Thats more likely to be an issue with the site not the campaign unless you are attracting the wrong people via poor keyword choice or poor ad writing.

As for SEO, I'd prove you business case via PPC first if is at all in question.

Good advice.

SEO tends to be an up-front cost which is intended to be recovered over the long term, so it makes no sense to test a business model with it.

It's more logical to pay for a limited amount of traffic (e.g. 1,500 clicks) and see if it converts before making unnecessary long term commitments.

Plus, if the site converts this initial paid traffic, it could increase your budget for SEO, not decrease it.

Steve

[inkcartshop]

i would look at your keywords first, put eating into google and the no1 site is London Eating, try book restaurant and you get toptable uk, view the source or keywords of the two pages, you have too many and search engines will not pick up more than about 150 letters in the keyword tab in the main page, also google adwords shows sites you dont want your customers to see, look into this first before you spend lots of money on PPC or SEO.:)

[RedEvo]

SEO tends to be an up-front cost which is intended to be recovered over the long term, so it makes no sense to test a business model with it.

This, in my view, is bang on!

d

[sirearl]

Just one further point although No SEO worth his salt is going to Guarantee a No 1 on google ,He should be able to assess the likelyhood of getting your site on page one of google,and a time frame for doing it,

And providing they are using white hat .don't worry about the methods they are using.The name of the game is to get you sales and a few pennies in the kitty.

and if they can do that .Job done

Earl

[UKSBD]

Just to add, the beauty of PPC is you can set up a landing page which is
100% geared to converting without even having to worry about Google.

How many people who just dabble in PPC. just pick one of their existing pages
and send all the PPC. traffic to it ?
Rather than experienced PPC. people who set up different individual landing
pages specifically for PPC. traffic.

I'm not saying an optimised page shouldn't be a nice landing page, but it is far
easier to create a better converting page when your not having to build it
with one eye on google all the time.

[Pet Nanny]

Steve, why do I always have to justify my comments. Perhaps it would be easier if I do not make any!

Just wanted to say that I personally never click on companies that use ad words. I tried them once and hardly got any clicks. We have a good position on google now, and are doing really well.

Nina

[sirearl]

Just to concur with others. PPC = quick results, SEO is for the long haul.

d

Although I would agree with you in the main .I think there may be a bit of over emphasis on the time scale for SEO to kick in.A decent SEO will get you up there pretty quick,within a month.even quicker using external sources.

I myself started a virgin site 4 weeks ago which now ranks No 1 on MSN for a very competative term.

Now before anyone shouts MSN is easy well there are 1.5 million other sites trying to get to No 1 and although MSN may only have 5% of the UK search engine market thats still a hell of a lot of people.;)

Earl

[SteveGibson]

Nina

It was the remark:

"tried it once and it was a complete waste of time"

that I commented on because it seems to put all the blame on the marketing medium without taking responsibility for whether it was appropriate for the business or whether it was used effectively.

Your statement

Neither do I look on the pay per click companies when I use google.

I didn't even comment on.

There are a lot of people who never click on the ads.

In a thread around 6 weeks ago, I mentioned that, when surfing for information, I almost never click on the ads. But, when I'm looking to buy something, I often use them.

And other people commented on their own "google behaviour" (including peple who, like you, don't use the ads).

The thread is here: Google search behaviour (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=33998)

Hope this clears things up,

Steve

[Pet Nanny]

Sorry Steve, didn't mean to throw a hissey fit, but people on here can be a bit scary at times!

I hear so much about google adwords, and I honestly never click on them. They are just on the right hand side and when I have clicked on them they have been boring. But then what do I know lol

Nina

[sirearl]

Nina




I didn't even comment on.

There are a lot of people who never click on the ads.

In a thread around 6 weeks ago, I mentioned that, when surfing for information, I almost never click on the ads. But, when I'm looking to buy something, I often use them.


Steve

I think this behaviour is possibly the result of top ranked organic site titles and descriptions not being so sales orientated as PPC adds.

my personal pitch in list of importance is:

Cheap
Quality
UK made
Discounted
vast range
24 hour delivery.

and tip of the day always include your telephone No in your title or description, like the yellow pages people are looking to phone you as often as not ,without even entering your site !!

I would be interested to hear other peoples lists?

Earl

[SteveGibson]

when I have clicked on them they have been boring. But then what do I know lol

More than you might think ...

In the last couple of years, Google has started talking about making the quality and relevance of the ads similar to the quality and relevance of the organic listings.

As far as I know, they've not come out and said exactly why they're doing this (vague comments about "quality user experience", but here's my theory:

........
People were clicking on the ads on the right hand side of the google listings and, too often, were being taken to low quality, low relevance sites.

This led some people to generalise that the ads were, to put it bluntly, crap. And they started to become innoculated against them.

Now, this was bad news for Google because it was killing the reputation of their advertising program (and harming their ad revenues).

So, they're now bumping up the cost per click for ads that they deem "irrelevant" or sites that they judge to be "poor quality".

(trying to price them off the page)

And, the idea is that, by improving people's experience with the ads, the right hand side of the page will have a higher reputation and attract more clicks.
..........

So, your attitude towards the ads is sufficiently widespread that Google is working round the clock to try to please people like you.

Steve

[SteveGibson]

I think this behaviour is possibly the result of top ranked organic site titles and descriptions not being so sales oriented as PPC adds.

I agree.

Steve