Unpaid customer invoice

[3DSDS]

Hi,

I am after some advise on chasing payment of an invoice which is now over due. The invoice relates to a steelwork project which i have detailed and have invoiced in monthly installments. The project became late due to mainly problems caused by the main contractor. I have an email stating that the delays are none of of my fault. The project changed on numerous occasions where I have had to fit the changes around my ccurrent workload. The project continued for 2 months following the supposed end date and in the end I was unable to incorporate the changes due to other confirmed work. We agreed that my client would take the drawings to complete. I have since heard nothing and by first invoice is due for payment (60 days). I have been told that there are no payments due to come out to me and no other reason has been given. I state on my invoices that if not contacted within 7 working days of issue we deem this invoice to be approved and payment will be processed by the due date. I stated 30 days on my invoice but their order stated 60 days. where do I proceed from here???

[MancunianCreative]

Got contracts? Lawyer up.

Not got contracts. Cry about it. Then get contracts.

[3DSDS]

Got contracts? Lawyer up.

Not got contracts. Cry about it. Then get contracts.

I have an agreed order issued at the start of the project for invoices to be paid in 60 days of issue. The invoices have not been queried until now when I chase up payment. Not getting a reply from the MD who passes payment. Need some practical advice on how to recover this outstanding amount. I have also been told that following the issue of my drawings for them to update and issue to the works, they are saying that I am still responsible for the drawings....surely if they have altered and revised them then they are now responsible. Where would I stand if something came back from site as being wrong. who can prove what, could I just say for instance that it was correct when I issued the drawings????

[MancunianCreative]

Is it a contract tho?

[3DSDS]

Is it a contract tho?
It was an order to supply the drawing work as per my quotation specifying an order number, payment terms and value. Nothing was signed as such.

[winsoar]

If you still need help with this I can refer you to a very good debt chasing company. If you have approval for the work to go ahead I'm sure you have a good chance of being paid.

[3DSDS]

If you still need help with this I can refer you to a very good debt chasing company. If you have approval for the work to go ahead I'm sure you have a good chance of being paid.
I would appreciate that if you could send the details over.

[playboy_bunnie]

OR you can use the HMCS service to request payment.

More info here:

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1083910795

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/Makingacourtclaimformoney/DG_195688

I did this when a client constantly ingnored emails and phonecalls for payment of services I had provided. Sent him a letter recorded delivery and he denied recieving it despite signed for!
He ended up paying double what he owed me in the end, so its worth looking into.

[belmorefinance]

Hi,

I am after some advise on chasing payment of an invoice which is now over due. The invoice relates to a steelwork project which i have detailed and have invoiced in monthly installments. The project became late due to mainly problems caused by the main contractor. I have an email stating that the delays are none of of my fault. The project changed on numerous occasions where I have had to fit the changes around my ccurrent workload. The project continued for 2 months following the supposed end date and in the end I was unable to incorporate the changes due to other confirmed work. We agreed that my client would take the drawings to complete. I have since heard nothing and by first invoice is due for payment (60 days). I have been told that there are no payments due to come out to me and no other reason has been given. I state on my invoices that if not contacted within 7 working days of issue we deem this invoice to be approved and payment will be processed by the due date. I stated 30 days on my invoice but their order stated 60 days. where do I proceed from here???

If none of the above work, you can get in touch with Touch Financial. They have a great team helping us in such situations all the time, so if still interested please let me know and will have that sorted for you.

Cheers

[Ian J]

If none of the above work, you can get in touch with Touch Financial. They have a great team helping us in such situations all the time, so if still interested please let me know and will have that sorted for you.


Touch Financial are factoring brokers and factoring companies wouldn't be interested in a scenario like this

[Neil@Cremanass]

I can help with this... I am part of a national company who deal with credit management and debt collection. We are the ONLY company in the UK who guarantees its service, and I have particular, recent experience with recoverring monies from a large steel company.
Email me your details and I would be happy to have a chat with you: nrobinson@cremanass.co.uk
regards
Neil

[PCCallout]

Really moneyclaim dot gov dot uk is the cheapest way to chase debts. You will have to provide evidence of breach though

[Geoff T]

@Neil - save me trawling through your website please... the word "guarantee" intrigues me...

[ITsoldUK]

I can help with this... I am part of a national company who deal with credit management and debt collection. We are the ONLY company in the UK who guarantees its service, and I have particular, recent experience with recoverring monies from a large steel company.
Email me your details and I would be happy to have a chat with you:
regards
Neil

Guarantees? Yowzer that is a dangerous word to use in the world of DRA

How is that working out for ya???

How much do you spend on baseball bats and crowbars ;)

[Neil@Cremanass]

We offer 2 guarantees, as follows:

1. Credit checking - If you do business with a customer and stay within
the recommended credit limit, we will refund your invoice (up
to £1,000) if they go into liquidation. We do this as we are totally
confident in the accuracy of the reports, and in our ability to monitor
on a daily basis. I believe this is totally unique.
2. Debt Collection - We guarantee to collect 10 X the cost of our annual
fee (so long as you are owed 12 X the cost), or we will refund our fee
to you, or give you next years service for free. This is of course more
of a money back guarantee, rather than a guarantee of collection, but
in any event is something that, as far as I am aware, no other
company offers.
I hope this clarifies things for you, however please feel free to contact me if not, and I would be more than happy to tell you more.
Kind regards, Neil.

[internetspaceships]

I'm probably going to get battered for saying this but that's really a bad use of the word guarantee.

It's smoke and mirrors and really doesn't guarantee anything. As you say, the second part is basically a refund of fees so let's assume that's exactly that, nothing more.

Concentrating on the first part.

I come to you and you sanction a client with a 50k credit limit.
They go bust on me and you pay me a maximum of £1000.

That's provided they go into liquidation. What about them not going into liquidation but still not paying up? Where am I then in relation to the guarantee?

If I have missed something then I'm willing to take it on the chin but I don't currently see anything to justify the banner waving about a guarantee. Please enlightment me or correct me if I am utterly wrong.

[Neil@Cremanass]

Hi Internetspaceships, and thanks for your post. You make valid points, and I am only too happy to offer further clarification:

1. Credit Checking Guarantee - We meet many businesses who have lost money through customer's going into liquidation, and we are confident that the accuracy of the reports we provide, and our ability to monitor your customers, will help to prevent you losing money in this way. In theory a company can go bust overnight, however in reality there are likely to be signs of a problem weeks, if not months in advance.
Our service carries the guarantee as we know we can deliver, and keep you fully informed on the financial stability of your customer. By using our service you should never really lose money through a customer going bust, however if you do, we will refund your invoice up to £1,000. We do this as a gesture, and in reality it does cover the average invoice value that many of our client's raise. There are of course those who's average invoice value is much larger, in which case our guarantee is almost insignificant, however lets face it - there is no other company who provides any guarantee at all on credit checking, so the fact that we do, indicates our commitment to providing you with a quality service.

2. Debt Collection - You asked what would happen if you had a customer who owed you money but had NOT gone into liquidation - Well in that case, you would be welcome to refer the matter to us to commence collection of that debt. Incidentally, we place no restrictions on what debts we are prepared to "go after"; In other words, if we recommended a credit limit for your customer of say £10,000, and you made a decision to trade with them to the tune of £50,000 - we would still be more than happy to collect that debt, despite the fact that you had traded beyond the recommended credit limit. Linking back to the 1st point, if that customer were to subsequently go into liquidation, our credit checking guarantee would not apply, as you had traded beyond our recommended limit, however in such a case, this is insignificant. It is after all your business, and you will occasionally make strategic business decisions which outweigh our guidelines - we respect and understand that of course, we are simply there to offer support.
The guarantee on our debt collection process is indeed a money back guarantee as stated previously, however remember that we honour this if we fail to collect 10 X the cost of our service - which again, is something that no other company provides. We recover on average, 95% of our client's debts within 28 days, with 60% being recovered within the 1st 7 days alone. We do this in a professional and ethical manor, during which time we work tirelessly to maintain the goodwill between our client's and their customers.

3. Litigation - If we fail to recover monies through our collection process, we offer fixed fee, in-house litigation should you require it.

I do hope that this answers your questions, and provides the clarification you were seeking. If not, please reply and I would be more than happy to expand further on any issue about which you are unclear.

You certainly don't deserve to be "battered" as you say, on the contrary, it is extremely useful to air these points in public so that any interested readers gain a thorough understanding.

Many thanks and kind regards.
Neil

[internetspaceships]

1. Credit Checking Guarantee - We meet many businesses who have lost money through customer's going into liquidation, and we are confident that the accuracy of the reports we provide, and our ability to monitor your customers, will help to prevent you losing money in this way. In theory a company can go bust overnight, however in reality there are likely to be signs of a problem weeks, if not months in advance.
Our service carries the guarantee as we know we can deliver, and keep you fully informed on the financial stability of your customer. By using our service you should never really lose money through a customer going bust, however if you do, we will refund your invoice up to £1,000. We do this as a gesture, and in reality it does cover the average invoice value that many of our client's raise. There are of course those who's average invoice value is much larger, in which case our guarantee is almost insignificant, however lets face it - there is no other company who provides any guarantee at all on credit checking, so the fact that we do, indicates our commitment to providing you with a quality service.

Not completely correct. A non recourse invoice discounting/factoring facility can do exactly this as they assume responsibility for the debt at outset.[/I]


2. Debt Collection - You asked what would happen if you had a customer who owed you money but had NOT gone into liquidation - Well in that case, you would be welcome to refer the matter to us to commence collection of that debt. Incidentally, we place no restrictions on what debts we are prepared to "go after"; In other words, if we recommended a credit limit for your customer of say £10,000, and you made a decision to trade with them to the tune of £50,000 - [I]( this is not relevant to my question at all) we would still be more than happy to collect that debt, despite the fact that you had traded beyond the recommended credit limit.

Linking back to the 1st point, if that customer were to subsequently go into liquidation, our credit checking guarantee would not apply, as you had traded beyond our recommended limit, however in such a case, this is insignificant. It is after all your business, and you will occasionally make strategic business decisions which outweigh our guidelines - we respect and understand that of course, we are simply there to offer support.

Again the above doesn't relate to my question at all.


The guarantee on our debt collection process is indeed a money back guarantee as stated previously, however remember that we honour this if we fail to collect 10 X the cost of our service - which again, is something that no other company provides. We recover on average, 95% of our client's debts within 28 days, with 60% being recovered within the 1st 7 days alone. We do this in a professional and ethical manor, during which time we work tirelessly to maintain the goodwill between our client's and their customers.

What's your exact definition of a debt? An over due sum of money or an invoice amount?


3. Litigation - If we fail to recover monies through our collection process, we offer fixed fee, in-house litigation should you require it.

So you charge another fee for providing the litigation service on top of the one you've already charged for?


I do hope that this answers your questions, and provides the clarification you were seeking. If not, please reply and I would be more than happy to expand further on any issue about which you are unclear.

Apologies but it really doesn't clarfy much I'm afraid. I'm not seeing any straight answers yet but if you could answer my points above it will become clearer

You certainly don't deserve to be "battered" as you say, on the contrary, it is extremely useful to air these points in public so that any interested readers gain a thorough understanding.

Great, let's do that.

Many thanks and kind regards.
Neil


Hi Neil as above Sir.

[Neil@Cremanass]

Non-recourse factoring / Invoice discounting does work differently. Of course there is credit checking involved, however the factoring company or bank will then pay a percentage of the invoice, typically 80%. Apart form the huge cost involved, particularly with the non-recourse variety, there are restrictions on which invoices they will accept. There is also the inconvenience of the personal guarantees which often need to be put in place.
Our service provides credit checking and daily monitoring, which offers protection, but we don't buy the invoices off you. Running hand-in-hand with our debt collection service, we are able to help extracate you from factoring arrangements, essentially reducing your costs, removing your personal guarantees, and giving you back control of your business. The definition of a debt is whatever you, our client, deem it to be; If your standard credit terms are 30 days, you might wish to instruct us on day 31, day 37 etc etc... YOU decide when you would like us to start collection, and YOU decide which customers you want us to collect from. Whether it be one invoice, or 100 invoices, either is fine, as long as they are overdue (i.e. beyond your credit terms).
The success of our other core services makes the need for litigation rare, however it is offered, and is priced on a case by case basis, however at a level much lower than the cost of using a solicitor.
In summary, our client's like to be able to use us for all of their requirements, rather than having one company do this, another doing that, and a 3rd doing the other - so to speak.

I hope this offers the clarification you are looking for, if not then please of course let me know and I am at your service.

Kindest regards
Neil

[anna_idsltd]

Have you actually sent them a reminder yet?

Pointless going the legal/credit chasing route before several attempts to get the invoice paid first

I don't think it matters whether there was a contract or not. More to the point was there anything written or said that asked you NOT to do the work? If not, therefore an unwritten business agreement was put in place once known as a 'Gentleman's agreement'

A couple of firm chases first then start looking at more harsh routes to recouping the money

[Geoff T]

A couple of firm chases first then start looking at more harsh routes to recouping the money

Wanted to refute the impression this gives... Sorry - but this assumes that third parties are "harsh" - couldn't be more wrong... Credit Control, whether in-house OR outsourced, is as much about maintaining the client-customer relationship as it is about collecting money...

Just wanted to clarify that... it's important to the work that I - and many other members - do each day...

[pre-legal]

I agree with anna_idsltd

Have you actually sent them a reminder yet?

Pointless going the legal/credit chasing route before several attempts to get the invoice paid first


and also as per your other thread - "Unpaid Invoices remain unpaid" at this stage you are still looking at using "pre-action protocols", not to repeat myself but ...

Your actions and behaviours prior to taking a debtor to Court are covered by the pre-action protocol and Civil Procedure Rules (CPR). These set the standards and timetables for the conduct of debt cases before proceedings are started.

Together these rules and protocols set effective and enforceable standards for the efficient conduct of pre-action litigation.

The pre-action protocol introduced significant and beneficial changes for you:
- an obligation on both parties to consider settlement and / or alternative dispute resolution (ADR), thereby taking away the fear of being "first to blink"
- the introduction of a short delay, usually 14 days, for the late payer to investigate, consider and respond to the claim
- both you as claimant and late payer are expected to provide evidence that alternative means of resolving their dispute were considered "appropriate and proportionate" to the case

The pre-action process starts with your Letter of Claim and should include all documents you hold as evidence and you can request disclosure of all evidence on which they intend to rely from the late payer. As you have already made an offer to settle repeat this again so it is recorded with your letter.

The late payer is obliged under Civil Procedure Pre-action Protocol to co-operate in the sharing of the information being sought and to identify any issues they may have and any facts on which they intend to rely.

Your focus should be to answer 5 key questions. Who is the debtor, make sure you register your claim against the legal entity? Can I prove the claim - support documentation? Have I taken all practical steps to recover payment prior to issuing proceedings? Have all genuine queries and disputes been resolved, and can I demonstrate that? Is the late payer worth pursuing - can they pay?

Importantly for you, the late payer is obliged to:
- co-operate in the sharing of the information being sought by you, including providing copies of all documents they are asked for
- Identify any issues they may have, and
- Identify all the facts on which they intend to rely

They are also required to disclose:
- The documents on which they intend to rely
- The documents that:
adversely affect their own case
adversely affect another party’s case and
support another party’s case
- The documents which they are required to disclose by a relevant practice direction.

(These documents include documents that are now or have been in their physical possession or control with someone acting on their behalf eg agent or solicitor).

For further information checkout pre-actionADR.org.uk