Problem financing.

[chocolate fountain man]

Hi, I was wondering if someone could give me a few pointers please.
My wife and I decided to start a small catering business using a trailer on a regular market pitch, we only started in September and for a few weeks it was great. Takings of £150+ per day with little outlay ,low overheads etc; We decided there was money to be made and we ventured into Popcorn and Candy floss, I hear you laugh,don't , 63p worth of sugar becomes £35 of candy floss, a £30 bag of corn over £400 of popcorn ! And when did you last see a child pay for any of these by cheque or plastic? That is part of our problem, what ever we earnt we ploughed straight back in. We have bought £0,000s of equipment ,we now wish to buy a chocolate fountain , we set up a website and borrowed a friends fountain to see how it would go, we set up at a Wedding fayre and we got bookings on the day and have had more since. We have a Business plan we have the bookings and we are looking for finance for the machine. I have been out of work for 3 years as I have had both hips replaced and my wife has been out of work longer, raising children then looking after me for a couple of years:redface: I know I can't get Credit ,my rating is poor as I have a CCJ and I am in dispute with Lloyds TSB over Loan insurance ,if they'd take me to Court and let the Judge decide I would stand by his verdict, pm if you want to know more, anyway my wife applied for a loan of £2500 , she has Banked with them for years and was given a Credit card last year, but she was refused. I have a good solid business plan and the cash flow forecast ,even at worst case scenario, show's income of £9,288 even allowing for a 10% APR repayment of £130 a month. The problem also arises as we didn't bank the money we made ,we reinvested.
Any advice would be most welcome. I forgot to mention they wouldn't even take my Army pension of £135 a week into consideration I offered to get it paid into her account !

chocolatefountainsindevon. co. uk (without the spaces) go on GOOGLE it we have a very high ranking on web traffic alone,no seo used ;-)

[Billmccallum]

If getting funding is an issue, why not look at lease purchase.... see http://www.chocolatefountainwarehouse.co.uk/Leasing_2e

I don't know the company, so can't offer any feedback.

[chocolate fountain man]

Hi Bill, thanks for that , they're the supplier I bought from when I exhibited , they also need credit checks and I had an informal word with them and the general opinion was "if you fail with the Banks you'll fail with us." Someone suggested e-bay, you can get them a lot cheaper , they're either ex hire and probably need a total overhaul which runs into hundreds,or, Chinese, bless their little cotton socks they try but they fail and back up and spares are not available in the UK

[fundingportal]

I'm afraid from what you say you will fail with any conventionnal (Loan, HP, Lease) finance. Also an APR of 10% is very ambitious at this stage of your business.

have you tried Zopa? You mentioned your wife has a credit card, what is the limit on that?

Alternatively, you might find a supplier who will rent you a unit on a short term basis

[leemason]

I'd second Zopa (www.zopa.com). I am an investor in Zopa (only in a small way at the moment) and it's an excellent way of circumventing the banks to get a loan. It's not for everyone but it's worth a go and if you are successful then the interest rate will be a lot lower than the banks!

[chocolate fountain man]

Thanks again for the replies. We tried Zopa after the Bank turned her down, they also use a system akin to the Banks for Credit rating, we got a very nice e-mail off them detailing this and a few points, including, being with your employer less than 2 years or recent self employment, so no joy there.

When I first thought of starting up I approached the British Legion with a view to getting a "Small business loan" via The Poppy Fund, I spoke with an advisor who said it sounded a good proposition as I would have assets to resell if it failed etc to repay the loan, I didn't need the loan then as I used savings, but he did say come back with all the paperwork in place and all the documents we need if you need to and it can be arranged in a couple of weeks. I went back to them this week, lo and behold , the Government has stopped the provision of "Small business loans" to anyone discharged prior to 2001, and here was me thinking the Charity was set up to help all those who served. Not those the Government dictates.

It was brought in with such stealth , when I phoned the British legion Helpline to tell them about it they didn't even know as the scheme was run from Tidworth and the Helpline is in London, they were quite literally tellnig me I was wrong until I guided them to the relevant website.

I must admit though they phoned me yesterday and said they were looking into it.

[chocolate fountain man]

Sorry I forgot to add, my wifes Credit card has a £750 limit and we are retaining that for contingencies.

I am even considering selling my car and hiring a van as and when to raise it but most van hire companies exclude towing and it would be very expensive in the long term. Before anybody mentions V5 loans , I even looked at that the APR is astronomical and you would have to be mad to use it.

[fundingportal]

If you car has any value, sale & leaseback might be an option.

Log Book Loans are indeed expensive, but could still be viable in the ROI on your purchase is sufficient (on a worst case basis!) to pay off the equipment in a few months.

[chocolate fountain man]

I did look into it but as the loan would get paid back over about 6 months the interest on that is still horrendous. About a £1000 for 6 month loan term.

Even the "doorstep loan company" Provident would be a better option, if it was an option, I even gave their site a scan and as we would be new customers we would be eligible to a £300 -£500 loan only ,and they do state they provide an early resettlement rebate where appropriate.

[bizloanservices]

You've clearly looked into all the options and so you may to fall back to the tried and tested method ... save up for it! Put a plan in place as to how much you can set aside out of each show you do (you've done it before with the other equipment you've bought).

Do not be tempted to take large chunks of cash - all you are doing is draining much needed cash flow to finance future shows/overheads; build up a reserve bit by bit.

You can either save to buy it in one go or you could save a portion. Armed with a sizeable contribution you could pitch your request to family and friends. Send out copies of your Business Plan and if anyone is interested offer them a rate on interest which is acceptable to you and a higher rate than they would get with the bank.

You must also change your banking habits. Whilst its easy to think you are saving on bank charges by not banking your takings, you're missing out on building a history with your bank. How you operate your account is one of the factors a bank will look at when assessing a request. An account with little or no activity won't help your case.

Good luck.

[chocolate fountain man]

You've clearly looked into all the options and so you may to fall back to the tried and tested method ... save up for it! Put a plan in place as to how much you can set aside out of each show you do (you've done it before with the other equipment you've bought).

Do not be tempted to take large chunks of cash - all you are doing is draining much needed cash flow to finance future shows/overheads; build up a reserve bit by bit.

You can either save to buy it in one go or you could save a portion. Armed with a sizeable contribution you could pitch your request to family and friends. Send out copies of your Business Plan and if anyone is interested offer them a rate on interest which is acceptable to you and a higher rate than they would get with the bank.

You must also change your banking habits. Whilst its easy to think you are saving on bank charges by not banking your takings, you're missing out on building a history with your bank. How you operate your account is one of the factors a bank will look at when assessing a request. An account with little or no activity won't help your case.

Good luck.

I now realise the error of my ways regarding banking ,if they'd seen the amount of cash going through my hands in the last few months they would be surprised to say the least ! A lot of activity would have been seen lots of ins and outs, as i said in an earlier post we knew what our plans were and it seemed a waste of time putting it in to draw out a few days later to pay for new machinery or stock, believe me in this business cash is a definite positive and the discounts are immediate.

As for saving for the chocolate fountain, I have the money in the Bank now to cover it, but , the key word as far as I can see at the moment is contingency, life is full of what if's.OK I go out and by the CF, on the way back from collecting it my car is involved in an accident, could I fulfil my bookings without that back up? No.

As for overheads, apart from a machine needing servicing, DIY on the Candy floss and Popcorn or repairs (and still under Manufacturers guarantee for another 9 months anyway) there are none. The CF requires servicing every 500 hours, approximately 160 bookings away. I operate from home with my equipment in a very secure lockup, any electricity I use is at the venue, my stock is non existant ,apart from a 25 Kilo sack of corn a month which I get delivered as I need it "Next day", for Candy floss , the day Tesco and ASDA ,Sainsburys and Lidl all run out of granulated sugar on the same day is yet to come. If I have a party for 25 kids 2x 63p bags of sugar makes them all happy, and going by todays rate with the popcorn as well, 1 kg was more than enough, and "Mum" even thanked me on facebook for it . Little did she realise the £110 she gave me for my 3 hours "work" had cost me less than £3 !!!

I have been having informal talks with a small business advisor by e-mail over the last 2 days and he has suggested forming a small limited liability company of two hundred shares and selling 99, so that I retain 51% at a price of £25 to friends, family and any other intersted parties with a buy back value of £35, it would cost me £1000 in the long term ,however ,I would be happy to pay that to enable me to move forward . When the last shares are bought back I could dissolve the Company and restart as a sole trader.

My Business plan is based on absolute worst case scenario and is showing an expected profit of £9000+ and that is only with the confirmed bookings I have, with Deposits in the Bank already and I have a lot more enquiries. It is also excluding my Income from my War Pension and my wifes income, which together is over £1000 a month. So this year the Bank will see a minimum of £2100 going through it, I have no other credit commitments, so at the end of the year I can see myself saying "Bye bye Halifax, Hello Santander", unless of course Santander buy out Halifax (or have they already ,never know).

Again be honest and tell me what you think of the small LLC and if you were in my shoes would you give it a try?

Be brutal I'm an adult and can take it on the chin without taking offence honestly.

[chocolate fountain man]

You've clearly looked into all the options and so you may to fall back to the tried and tested method ... save up for it! Put a plan in place as to how much you can set aside out of each show you do (you've done it before with the other equipment you've bought).

Do not be tempted to take large chunks of cash - all you are doing is draining much needed cash flow to finance future shows/overheads; build up a reserve bit by bit.

You can either save to buy it in one go or you could save a portion. Armed with a sizeable contribution you could pitch your request to family and friends. Send out copies of your Business Plan and if anyone is interested offer them a rate on interest which is acceptable to you and a higher rate than they would get with the bank.

You must also change your banking habits. Whilst its easy to think you are saving on bank charges by not banking your takings, you're missing out on building a history with your bank. How you operate your account is one of the factors a bank will look at when assessing a request. An account with little or no activity won't help your case.

Good luck.

I now realise the error of my ways regarding banking ,if they'd seen the amount of cash going through my hands in the last few months they would be surprised to say the least ! A lot of activity would have been seen lots of ins and outs, as i said in an earlier post we knew what our plans were and it seemed a waste of time putting it in to draw out a few days later to pay for new machinery or stock, believe me in this business cash is a definite positive and the discounts are immediate.

As for saving for the chocolate fountain, I have the money in the Bank now to cover it, but , the key word as far as I can see at the moment is contingency, life is full of what if's.OK I go out and by the CF, on the way back from collecting it my car is involved in an accident, could I fulfil my bookings without that back up? No.

As for overheads, apart from a machine needing servicing, DIY on the Candy floss and Popcorn or repairs (and still under Manufacturers guarantee for another 9 months anyway) there are none. The CF requires servicing every 500 hours, approximately 160 bookings away. I operate from home with my equipment in a very secure lockup, any electricity I use is at the venue, my stock is non existant ,apart from a 25 Kilo sack of corn a month which I get delivered as I need it "Next day", for Candy floss , the day Tesco and ASDA ,Sainsburys and Lidl all run out of granulated sugar on the same day is yet to come. If I have a party for 25 kids 2x 63p bags of sugar makes them all happy, and going by todays rate with the popcorn as well, 1 kg was more than enough, and "Mum" even thanked me on facebook for it . Little did she realise the £110 she gave me for my 3 hours "work" had cost me less than £3 !!!

I have been having informal talks with a small business advisor by e-mail over the last 2 days and he has suggested forming a small limited liability company of two hundred shares and selling 99, so that I retain 51% at a price of £25 to friends, family and any other intersted parties with a buy back value of £35, it would cost me £1000 in the long term ,however ,I would be happy to pay that to enable me to move forward . When the last shares are bought back I could dissolve the Company and restart as a sole trader.

My Business plan is based on absolute worst case scenario and is showing an expected profit of £9000+ and that is only with the confirmed bookings I have, with Deposits in the Bank already and I have a lot more enquiries. It is also excluding my Income from my War Pension and my wifes income, which together is over £1000 a month. So this year the Bank will see a minimum of £2100 going through it, I have no other credit commitments, so at the end of the year I can see myself saying "Bye bye Halifax, Hello Santander", unless of course Santander buy out Halifax (or have they already ,never know).

Again be honest and tell me what you think of the small LLC and if you were in my shoes would you give it a try?

Be brutal I'm an adult and can take it on the chin without taking offence honestly.

[chocolate fountain man]

OOOOOPPPS ! Sorry about the double post, not sure how that happened nor how to delete?

Just went to check my mail and found a new posting on Facebook from todays Birthday Party as follows (in reply to "Happy to help, hope they all enjoyed it ;-)" ) Her reply was "Yeh thanks :) more fatter and much more fuller! I may have to book u up for my eldest sons party! Just gota decide what he wants although he definatly wants candy floss! " i also had 3 enquries from other mums .

[oldeagleeye]

Frankly OP I think that you are in danger of missing the plot. Your making £30 quid an hour selling just popcorn and candy floss. If you only did 20 hrs a week your on £600 a week.

Why the hell you worrying about chocolate fountains then. Haven't most parents already bought them anyway and got sick to death of chocolate yet you want to spend £2,000 quid on one. WHY. Because you see yourself as Mr Chocolate Fountain man.

How sweet. Must come from trying to win the hearts & minds of Afghans. Pity they don't believe in ied's filled with popcorn.

Seriously. Why not start with a cheap home job then about £20 quid. It may not do the volume but it could end up earning you enough over a couple of months to buy a decent used commercial job.

The bottom line is mate. You already had the right idea and right priorities to start with. Get out there and get the pitches adding a few complimentary products perhaps. I guarantee your raise money you want far quicker than trying to borrow it.

Rob

[chocolate fountain man]

Frankly OP I think that you are in danger of missing the plot. Your making £30 quid an hour selling just popcorn and candy floss. If you only did 20 hrs a week your on £600 a week.

Why the hell you worrying about chocolate fountains then. Haven't most parents already bought them anyway and got sick to death of chocolate yet you want to spend £2,000 quid on one. WHY. Because you see yourself as Mr Chocolate Fountain man.

How sweet. Must come from trying to win the hearts & minds of Afghans. Pity they don't believe in ied's filled with popcorn.

Seriously. Why not start with a cheap home job then about £20 quid. It may not do the volume but it could end up earning you enough over a couple of months to buy a decent used commercial job.

The bottom line is mate. You already had the right idea and right priorities to start with. Get out there and get the pitches adding a few complimentary products perhaps. I guarantee your raise money you want far quicker than trying to borrow it.

Rob

At the moment I'm not able to do 20 hours per week selling candy floss and popcorn, it's not really the time of year to, May to September is.

If you are willing to pop down to Argos and pay £30 pay for your daughters wedding then thats fine, personally I wouldn't nor would the people booking me.

Why do I want to be chocolate fountain man? £200 in 2 hours Average. If I get the large bookings for officers and SNCO messes that could be up to a thousand ,so go figure ! For your information I already have a booking for one mess function and mess managers talk !!!

I take great exception to your reference regarding ied's having been involved in an ied incident 20 plus years ago , seeing a good friend killed by one and another (18 year old at the time) lose his legs one above and one below the knee, where your comment came from I don't know but it was offensive, ied's are not a new thing you know.

*Seriously* over the last few years I saved and bought a catering trailer and then moved on and on and I know where I'm heading. So don't sit there and tell to start with £20, I have equipment worth more than £10,000 in my lock up and trailer, including the value of the trailer.

When I hire out a Candy floss machine and Popcorn cart , yesterday and later today , for a kids Birthday Party I also provide a Sephra Elite chocolate fountain, thats the hearts and minds campaign I have and yesterday it cost me an extra £2 and the lady who booked me was so pleased she gave me an extra £10, I also got 3 enquiries from other parents and the Birthday boys Mum has booked me for her other sons Birthday.

To ensure I get the bookings for the chocolate fountains I always ask if any children are going ,typically 10% are children so I provide candy floss and popcorn for them,costs coppers. if no children are going I provide a couple of small ice swans as chillers for the fruit dips .

I am still seething from your bloody comment .

[oldeagleeye]

Then you took it completely the wrong way buddy. Go and polish your broach.:rolleyes:

[chocolate fountain man]

Now I've had a fag, TYVM I am trying to cut down or stop, a little more info for you .

The regular pitch I have for my catering trailer is in a tourist town, which is also home to a Community College, at this time of year I am only allowed to operate 1 Day per week even now I am making a profit of £80 on an average 6 hour day, if you knew anything about candyfloss you would appreciate that moisture in the air soon spoils it and also is attracted to the spinning head and bowl therefore making any sugar in them spoiled also, so it's a waste of time trying , I do take some down when I have some left over from a weekend event, bagged up, but they lose their volume so are less attractive.

During March and specifically from Easter sales increase quite sharply, 2 Days a week trading and profits of £200 a day, June -September £350-£500 on historical sales and without popcorn or candy floss. Not bad for average 7 hours trading. Where are the figures from, the previous pitch operator, he has no interest in the pitch and is now semi retired, he's 45 and has his fingers in different pies in Indonesia and Thailand and lives in Spain but comes over occasionally and visits the pitch for a coffee and a bacon roll when in town,his mum lives there.

I know I can make £600 in 20 hours the maths is simple, have you never wondered why Showmen live in £85,000 trailers? Why do you think they move around, the kids would get sick of candy floss and popcorn and fairground rides every day, go back for a few days every few months they look forward to it, I don't have that option, so I wait for the tourists to come to me.

Some of your comments were really very silly when you way them up you know, how can you possibly compare a 18" Argos CF to a feature that stands nearly 7' high and holds about 10x more weight in chocolate alone than the one you are comparing it to weighs when full? Most brides would throw it at you if they were told they were having a chocolate fountain an ended up with one of those on their table.

And please explain where the ied reference comes from are is it just smart arsed term you've picked up off TV you thought you'd bounce around, do me a favour "mate" don't use it in front of someone who has experience of them otherwise the next thing you see may be "Incoming!".

Oh and that leads to one final thing , I suppose you voted for either Conservative or lib dems? It is partly down to them I am in the position I am, in September I contacted the British legion and told them my plans and we discussed various options and I decide to use my saving and reinvest and was told funding under "Small business loan" would be able to help me out in the future with an expansion if I needed it. The present Government closed that option in November without telling the Public especially ex Servicemen, as they provide an "element" of funding they say the RBL can only provide loans to people discharged post 2001, pity they are so thick ,like others I can think of, who seem to think "things go away" after a while some things affect people for a lifetime physically and emotionally. There are people around who still need help from WW2 let alone NI (OpBanner) or Op Corporate (rather inapproriate name unless you take into account the potential oil and mineral revenue in the Falklands/South Georgia) Op Desert Storm and others but the people in the latter are still of working age and have plans, they may need help but now can't get it, there again the Government can say " They aren't accepting jobs ,cut their benefits" a good cost cutting exercise then in your book is it.

[chocolate fountain man]

Then you took it completely the wrong way buddy. Go and polish your broach.:rolleyes:


Then explain Buddy ! What the hell has ied's got to do with this ?

[chocolate fountain man]

BTW I think you'll find it's brooch and they aren't brooches.

[chocolate fountain man]

Then explain Buddy ! What the hell has ied's got to do with this ?

In the words of Diana Ross ,I'm still waiting, however, Old eagle eyes or whatever your name is don't worry about replying, as I stated in the opening post what I am looking for is serious replies to some ,for some of you, fairly basic questions.

I did say I didn't want belittling or berating, I didn't want smart arsed sarcastic comments about 20 Hours a week at £30 =£600, I may have been a squaddie but it was a requirement to have basic English and Maths you know. I certainly didn't ask for ied's to be introduced into the conversation.
I was seeking constructive comments not some attempt at demolishing my ideas ,failed by the way, or some personal remarks as to how I want to be " the chocolate fountain man" aw sweet ? how pathetic, I want to be the guy who's earning a lot of cash for comparatively little outlay and excellent returns. I hold my hands up, I made one or 2 silly mistakes, instead of putting the cash I earned in the Bank to actually show cash was coming in I reinvested, and even did the same with cheques for larger events. Tell me old eagle eyes, hand on heart , can you honestly tell me, you or your company earnt £700 clear profit for 3 hours work within 3 months of starting your business? Or the days equivalent , if you're so old and wise were they still using Florins and farthings back then?

I have a plan, my plan, if you don't like it feel free to bugger off to some other post and make your comments there. If you would like to help with some real advice ,of the type in the original post , you're welcome to do so. But keep it to the questions asked unless it totally relevant.

One final thing, if you want to make masked remarks about Service or ex Service personnell, if I misread it explain yourself because I have PM's from other people who saw it that way as well, then please remember this we all signed a Cheque that would no doubt be bigger than any you have or ever will write. "For the defence of the Realm it's lands ,property and people I promise to pay any price up to and including my life." to think I served for some people that don't appreciate it,was it worth it? Hell yes ,because most people do.

[Esk247]

To be honest, you're in a bit of a sticky puddle with this kind of thing.

With a poor credit rating very few people are going to loan to you and even if they do, you're going to end up paying over the odds on the loan amount.

I'd suggest re-renting a friends chocolate fountain instead of buying one, or borrowing one, or something. Then building the choccy fountain side of the business using borrowed equipment that doesn't actually cost you anything. Then re-invest that money in to buying some more machinery yourself, you may find that you need a better machine after running this part of the business for a few months.

Trial and error.

Ensure with the business plan that you have been hard on yourself and not too optimistic with figures. Ensure that you have planned for the worst case scenario. If your figures work out quite well in the worst case scenario then just imagine how succesful you will be if things go the right way for you.

I think that looking for another person or company to fund you is just going to get you in even more debt and stress. You're also going to spend weeks or months trying to find someone when you could be setting this business up right now.

[bizloanservices]

To be honest, you're in a bit of a sticky puddle with this kind of thing.

With a poor credit rating very few people are going to loan to you and even if they do, you're going to end up paying over the odds on the loan amount.

I'd suggest re-renting a friends chocolate fountain instead of buying one, or borrowing one, or something. Then building the choccy fountain side of the business using borrowed equipment that doesn't actually cost you anything. Then re-invest that money in to buying some more machinery yourself, you may find that you need a better machine after running this part of the business for a few months.

Trial and error.

Ensure with the business plan that you have been hard on yourself and not too optimistic with figures. Ensure that you have planned for the worst case scenario. If your figures work out quite well in the worst case scenario then just imagine how succesful you will be if things go the right way for you.

I think that looking for another person or company to fund you is just going to get you in even more debt and stress. You're also going to spend weeks or months trying to find someone when you could be setting this business up right now.

Sound and practical advice - put your head down and start hoarding the cash. It may delay your plans but at least you have made a start.

[chocolate fountain man]

To be honest, you're in a bit of a sticky puddle with this kind of thing.

With a poor credit rating very few people are going to loan to you and even if they do, you're going to end up paying over the odds on the loan amount.

I'd suggest re-renting a friends chocolate fountain instead of buying one, or borrowing one, or something. Then building the choccy fountain side of the business using borrowed equipment that doesn't actually cost you anything. Then re-invest that money in to buying some more machinery yourself, you may find that you need a better machine after running this part of the business for a few months.

Trial and error.

Ensure with the business plan that you have been hard on yourself and not too optimistic with figures. Ensure that you have planned for the worst case scenario. If your figures work out quite well in the worst case scenario then just imagine how succesful you will be if things go the right way for you.

I think that looking for another person or company to fund you is just going to get you in even more debt and stress. You're also going to spend weeks or months trying to find someone when you could be setting this business up right now.

Now that is the kind of reply I don't mind at all, constructive and sound even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear :redface: But I take it on board and thank you for it.

I appreciate what you say about paying over the odd's hence my Idea of paying 40% ROI to buy back any shares, it would cost me a £1,000 but that would be better than some proposals V5 loans etc in the relatively short term.

the option of borrowing one is kind of realistic ,but, Kath the friend who has one lives in Sheffield and I live in Torbay, so any profits would be taken up with collecting and delivering,neither of us would trust a courier, sorry any couriers out there I did some part time work as one and saw how they treat things at "the hub".

Renting one "dry" is nearly as expensive as hiring one with dips and chocolate!

Regarding being harsh with a business plan, think Opus Dei and self flagelation:rolleyes: I have cut to the bone and even included parking fees, and based the 3 days a week during summer on the average taking NOW £80 a day profit as opposed to a very realistic £350+ and only included the confirmed bookings which I have the deposit cheques for.

On reflection the Log book loan may be the loan of last resort and may be my only option. I have bookings for the CF from March on ,so in the words of Dawn French as her character in the Vicar of Dibleys CF scene " I'm going in." Thanks again.

[chocolate fountain man]

If you post and I don't get back with a reply it's only because I'm off out to earn some more readies !

[Chris Ashdown]

You state you reinvested all your takings into the business, what have you done about tax and NI

No sensible person is going to buy shares in a small company living day to day they will want a long term project the gives good dividends at low risk, buy your own history you are a high risk by your credit rating

How many people would want a chocolate fountain drink when the are dressed up to the 9's it's women who would be the biggest buyers and they will have invested a lot of money to look great at a wedding and would you want your children running around with hot choc's spilling it on there other guest's, then again maybe it's an army thing an I was a matalot

I would suggest just growing as you are, and for quite days off season, attend local market days or car boot sales.

Selling hot chocolate drinks does not need a fountain, your succesfull at what you are doing so just try and do more of it and build up a working relationship with the bank

[Chris Ashdown]

When you sell shares in the company, they own that bit of the company, there is no reason for them to sell you back the shares, and laws dictate you have to pay them their proportion of any dividend's paid out, and dividends is your cheapest way of getting money out of the company

[davezzr]

I quite like the idea of these chocolate fountains and the returns look good between £200-£450 for a 3 hour hire at an event ie wedding,henparty, birthdays etc.
I know the machine (a good tall one)can cost up £2500 here,or about $1000+ from hong Kong. I can see with the right advertising this could be a nice little earner

[chocolate fountain man]

You state you reinvested all your takings into the business, what have you done about tax and NI

No sensible person is going to buy shares in a small company living day to day they will want a long term project the gives good dividends at low risk, buy your own history you are a high risk by your credit rating

How many people would want a chocolate fountain drink when the are dressed up to the 9's it's women who would be the biggest buyers and they will have invested a lot of money to look great at a wedding and would you want your children running around with hot choc's spilling it on there other guest's, then again maybe it's an army thing an I was a matalot

I would suggest just growing as you are, and for quite days off season, attend local market days or car boot sales.

Selling hot chocolate drinks does not need a fountain, your succesfull at what you are doing so just try and do more of it and build up a working relationship with the bank

Again relevant questions, NI paid by DD every month for basic contributions, the rest of it I will pay when I have traded for a year and know what to pay,same for IR, how can you expect me to go knocking on HMRC door asking how much I have to pay when I have no accounts yet? Do you pre pay your Income tax, I wasn't aware you could ! Obviously I put money aside for those.

The business doesn't live day to day , it is self financing apart from my initial cash injection, I have already been asked if I would like to sell the whole as a going concern,and no I don't want him to buy half and take half the profits for ever and a day, I did the leg work so can he, that to me smacks of "there's money in this" if I did sell today I'd sell for no less than £15k. If I'd realised how well it was going to go I would have done things differently , que sera sera.


How many people want a chocolate fountain, lots, who would want a chocolate fountain drink? Not sure never seen or tried one. Have you ever seen the way a chocolate fountain operates? www.chocolatefountainsindevon.co.uk (http://www.chocolatefountainsindevon.co.uk) checkout the pictures of Brides in their dresses and Birthday events with ladies and gents and not forgetting kids wearing their best kit and not a problem, anyone who I think may have a problem using it in the conventional/ traditional way ,elderly ,infirm or very young, I offer a bowl with dips and chocolate in and a fork or spoon. You don't drink it you cover your chosen dips,mounted kebab style on a skewer, with chocolate and then, by holding them close to the rim of the fountains bowl transfer it over to a paper plate , with a supplied serviette, consume, repeat. As for who wants a load of melted chocolate around with a load of people who've had a few,one of the first things I say when theyy start talking about what time they want it, get it out of the way by 10 before Uncle Bert starts the Okey Cokey business off. Oh and it is 74 -76 degrees so certainly not hot enough to burn children. Not much more than room temperature is it's melt point as you may have found at some stage in your life.

I am in the quiet season for my market catering pitch and it will always be quiet September to March in a tourist oriented town. That is why I need to build up a business that will see me through and give me more cash flow during summerand a regular income during the winters.

You mention hot chocolate again ,no direspect here honestly, I think you have some crossed wires , hot chocolate and a chocolate fountain are 2 totally seperate entities. I put in one post that I made £700 in 3 hours , 5 including set up and clean up, selling hot chocolate and popcorn at a school event, that was drinking chocolate, not related to the fountain at all. One is a liquid the other is melted chocolate .

I know I'm successful at what I'm doing now but I want to be more successful year round. Another thing you mention regarding operating at Car boots and Markets, at this time of year the weather isn't really appropriate for any of the products outside.

And maybe it is an Army thing we left the kids at home for Mess do's:p

To be frank I thought a ROI of 40% was quite good, far better than a Bank.

Thanks for your input anyway.

[chocolate fountain man]

I quite like the idea of these chocolate fountains and the returns look good between £200-£450 for a 3 hour hire at an event ie wedding,henparty, birthdays etc.
I know the machine (a good tall one)can cost up £2500 here,or about $1000+ from hong Kong. I can see with the right advertising this could be a nice little earner

At last a man with vision,lol, but DO NOT ever touch a Chinese one ! I have seen the quality, not good at all. The one I am looking it is a Sephra 2000, it extends up to 44" ,total of nearly seven feet on the table, and that serves up to 600 people and to answer your next question yes I am ambitious. A 53" Chinese copy is £859 delivered. The Sephra is made in the USA as is most of my equipment and is the World leader 3 x the price but worth every penny for peace of mind and longevity. £250 is easy money, I already have deposits that had I asked for the full amount up front I wouldn't be on here trying to find ways of raising what is a relatively small amount :mad:,up to £1,000 is possible and more ,probably 3 -4 times a year. I just wish I'd mentioned the CF to Exeter University Students Guild before they priced the tickets, what they could have factored in on ticket price would have covered the CF:cool:, as it is they had me for candy floss and I threw in free Poppcorn as a sweetener, big deal I threw away £10 of profits ,hang me for it but not until after the other event I got off the back of that.

[Chris Ashdown]

Sorry a bit out of touch with CF just thought you put marshmallow on a stick in or had a hot drink, understand where you are coming from now

Most self employed put a third away for tax man and have some left over. well worth getting the self employed rules from a accountant so you know when and how much you need to pay and avoid any bad shocks

[chocolate fountain man]

All in hand mon ami.

[oldeagleeye]

First of all OP lets get a few things straight. Who I vote for is irrelevant and I wouldn't cross the street to pissete an any politician that was on fire. They have all treated our armed services with nothing but contempt despite their retorick. Furthermore. It is nothing new. The way royalty and governemts have seen it for centuries is that you are all nothing more than mercenaries who take the 'Kings Shillin'.

Do you think the hat about the 2nd World War. The troops were giving a 30 shilling de-mob suit and told on your bike. After the Vietnam war that spat at troops returning and more recently the Labour government sent our armed forces into an illegal war and without the right equipment.

Against that most of us in Britain have supported our armed forces including me. Don't jump down my throat then because the government moved the goal posts on small loans. Something amongst other things you seem to have an attitude problem with.

Let me mark your card then. There is no way on this Gods earth you would have got a government loan to set up shop as a mobile caterer anyway. The scheme you referred to may have been run by the government but the criteria and risk assessment left to the banks so if they wouldn't give you a loan anyway. End of story.

Let me mark you card again. You are not going to sell shares in a mobile catering van in the way you seem to think that you can because you ain't got a business. Your a self employed caterer that is all.

I don't mean any disrespect in that but you are in no different a position to a bricklayer or minicab driver. The whether can ruin your day. You might get the flu. The van or car may break down. These may be gambles you are prepared to take but not an investor. All of which takes me full circle to my original post which you with obviously a chip on your shoulder too personally.

The fact is however that this sort of business has to be self financed and that means using what equipment you have now to make profits and not dreaming of the higher one a CF may possible make.

You stated in a previous post I quote
"You mention hot chocolate again ,no direspect here honestly, I think you have some crossed wires , hot chocolate and a chocolate fountain are 2 totally seperate entities. (BTW - they are not entities - they are products )
I put in one post that I made £700 in 3 hours , 5 including set up and clean up, selling hot chocolate and popcorn "

Well if you made £700 in selling hot chocolate with the aid of a cheap water bolier I would have said that you have lost the plot and all because of this fixation with being Mr Chocolate Fountain with a big flash machine

Well go for it. Buy 5 cheap CF and stack them up like champaign glasses. Cost £100 quid. 2 gigs and you will have earned enough to buy the machine you want.

If you want another constructive option. Do what the black cab drivers do. share the cost of the van and work your own pitches. If it's worth £10K you should get £5K. Enough to buy the machine and some working capital.

[chocolate fountain man]

Sorry about the late reply here, was out sorting the trailer.

You're correct in many cases regarding military history and the mercenary reference, to this day are Rgt's that in the early days were formed with Germanic troops, usually Hannoverian. Waterloo, Charleois, Heugomont, without the Prussians amongst others it would have been a Great FRENCH victory .

We aren't in that period anymore.

By it's very definition every person who "signs up" is a mercenary, we are prepared to fight for who ever pays us , whether that be a Government or a revolutionary Force ,most people don't see it that way if you are a member of a regular force raised by statute but the bottom line is we are.

Conscription during WW2 was a very different matter it was in a time of emergency the numbers involved were tremendous, whole Village and small towns were left without men between 17 and 40, because they were conscripted into "Pals" Rgts or battalions,WW1 and 2, these were drawn from local areas and obviously fought alongside each other, many of these units were virtually wiped out especially in WW1. The numbers involved made it damn near impossible to give financial aid to each individual, we only paid off the last of the War debt to the USA a few years ago. I have nothing but sheer respect for these men and feel humbled to this day in their presence.

You are dead right I have a chip on my shoulder about the RBL and wrong about the funding for a catering trailer, back in the summer of last year it was discussed and all was in place, until I decided to use my savings to go ahead with it. the option was there to go back and get the funding if 1. I made a profit and needed a bigger unit 2. Needed any more equipment. Simple enough. When I did go back it was no longer an option because of a Government decision , nothing to do with the Haig Fund. Lot's of people have had funding through them for Small business, window cleaners, plumbers , brickies , they aren't or weren't frowned upon because they were looking to be making a wage and not wanting £250k to become the next Lord sugar, I know of someone who got laid off as a brickie , he was lent £3,000 for a van and materials ,that was what it was there for,he has a nice little business going for himself now, a liveable wage. We aren't all looking to be multi-millionaires. So as far as marking my card on that , what you refer to wasn't at the time anything to do with the Government, it was a Legion thing decided at Branch and County levels. Bugger all to do with Banks or credit agencies. They knew you and took you at your word, as long as you'd done your homework and knew what you were doing they helped out. End of story.

I am also more than aware of the possibilites of weather,illness etc preventing me from trading for a while ,hence, as I have stated before , I have over £2500 for contingencies. Use that I hear. Contingencies I say.

I have no personal chip on my shoulder I just didn't like ied comments dropped in for no reason and found it offensive, simple.

Apart from my initial cash injection it is totally self financed, I'll get that back when I get where I want to be. In the interim there is a very great potential to make even more money , I want to chase that,have seen how much money there is involved with Weddings? a budget of £5k is small,very small. Do you have a problem with me having ambition, I thought this forum was to help people succeed,not to tell them they'll fail at every turn.

Initially I asked for help or advice on where I may look for funding in the short time, i.e; is their a Company around that may say "Your trailer is worth £5k we'll lend you £2.5 for X months @ £xxx and you retain the use. " Asset finance I believe it's called, I've looked on the web and if I had a truck worth £20k it's possible for £2.5K I'd spend weeks trawling the web maybe to find something and maybe not, there was a possibity someone on here could just say "yep,try ABC finance". Or some other alternative.

Oh yesss , the Hot chocolate and popcorn, sadly that was an end of term "Thank you" to the students at a local college for good results, attendance etc; I wish I had one every week, I'd only work 5 hours a week (set up/ cleaning inc) and not have to bother you guys. Sadly they don't come around weekly. I am booked for their Spring fair though.

What is it with this "Mr Chocolate fountain" ? What I have done is identified a potential moneymaker end of ! Have you actually seen the set up I did on my website? Probably not or you would know why people want them.

Your last paragraph makes a bit of sense actually, why the hell didn't you post that first instead of some comment about ied's , would have been a lot more beneficial. May well be worth a look into.

[chocolate fountain man]

Sorry to split hairs here about the hot chocolate and fountain chocolate , but the 2 are entities as well as products, an entity is described as having a distinct and seperate existence, you can drink hot chocolate but not use it in a fountain , you certainly wouldn't want drink fountain chocolate especially in its preheated solid form. A product is a term which could also be applied though. Not being a pedanrt but I forgot to mention it in my previous post, as you felt it relevant ,I thought a reply was as well.

[chocolate fountain man]

I have just re-read the post in which you mentioned ied's and I have a sincere aplogy to make to you , hand on heart , I took it the wrong way and the red mist came down. So please accept my most sincere apologies.

I know you're posts have intended to be helpful ,but at times they have come across as seeming a bit negative, probably not meant that way and please if you haven't already, have a look at my website.
www.chocolatefountainsindevon.co.uk (http://www.chocolatefountainsindevon.co.uk)
and tell me honestly that compares with an Argos item number 260/3474 ?http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=10001&catalogId=1500002701&langId=-1&searchTerms=CHOCOLATE+FOUNTAIN

Once more ,my apologies.

[chocolate fountain man]

I'm afraid from what you say you will fail with any conventionnal (Loan, HP, Lease) finance

Good job Santander thought differently. I went in to open a business account , took in my business plan, my personal account statement from A N Other Bank. I didn't ask for a loan, I didn't think I had a hope in hell as I had no financial records for just the business, between me starting this thread and the time I went to the Bank I had just under £1,000 cash and I had £240 in deposit cheques to open the account with, an hour later I had the money for the new fountain. He looked at the plan, saw what was obviously takings on my personal statement (nearly £5k in the 3 quiet months of the year ,new start up, and buying in machines) , asked a few questions and offered me a loan ,subject to status, I thought I would fail there but no.
He just said it was all OK and the paperwork done and dusted in minutes.

Strangely enough, as this thread hasn't been posted on recently, the fountain should be arriving anytime today, and being put to work Saturday night. How's that for coincidence ?

It is also nearly "paid for" on the bookings I have taken for it.

So maybe if the Banks see someone who wants to borrow thousands for an idea they can't see any PROOF of potential earnings in the current climate they may shy away from lending, but, if they see someone who wants to borrow a small amount and has proof they can make it pay they are happy to lend.

If I was a Bank manager and approached by 20 sole traders each with a good proposal, I'd be happier to lend £2.5 to each of them than lend one SMB £50k, eggs and baskets comes to mind.

I've had loads of bookings for the fountains , got lots of bookings for the candy floss and popcorn machines as well, so late summer holiday, when it goes quiet again, a few weeks on the boat, may make the Spanish coast this year, wind and weather dependant.

To those who sent words of encouragement ,thank you, to those who thought I'd fail,or give up trying/looking, sorry, you were wrong my friends and should have a more positive attitude.

To those who think it can't get worse in this recession, it can ,it may well do, but, once we're as low as we can get the only way is back up , so let's look forward to that.

[leemason]

Well done chocolate fountain man! It just shows that if you have confidence in a business idea and keep on going you will find a way... I lesson to many.

[Chris Ashdown]

Well done, wish you all the best

[the Chocolate]

Well done,it's great to hear good news.

[Alfa Amore]

This may not be what you wanted to hear either but the leasing companies will be much easier to negotiate with if you put down a larger deposit. I did a dela with a leasing company on behalf of a client by gettin 9 months in advance instead of the usual 3 months and they passed it with no problem. You may need to find more than you orginally wanted to but not the full purchase price.

[theretaildoctor]

Before you go down he route of commercial financing like Zopa, try the banks using their SFLGS, now renamed but they should be applied for if you have no assets or bad history. Failing that, and there is a real chance you wont get it, dont get tied down with loans. Work it through with a business link advisor, or grow it organically

[chocolate fountain man]

Well guys it's been a while and I thought an update may be appropriate for anybody interested ?

Any subscribers to the thread will know I had a "silly idea" that I wanted to realise as I could see the potential, the market was there recession or no recession, the market is always there, the market is what you want to aim it at. My initial markets were the ever ready for a cuppa and a bacon butty brigade ,good quality and reasonable price, always there. I progressed through simple things like fresh donuts to candy floss and popcorn , then the brainwave hit me. A chocolate fountain. What Father giving away his Daughter doesn't want to give his little girl the day she wants? I had problems raising finance, but, eventually with the help of Santander I got what I needed. Along the way I found the Government had closed a potential route for finance for Ex Servicemen via the Royal British Legion.

Here's the update, I had a loan from Santander for £5000, note the word HAD it no longer exists ! We have taken deposits for Weddings up to November 2013 ! We have virtually every weekend booked for next Summer, we have also got bookings for Midweek dates. For each booking we took a 25% deposit, these deposits have covered the loan and more.

We are renowned for our presentation and quality of products, we even make our own homemade fudge , ice swans and other items unique to us.

We have recently bought a Champagne fountain that are usually offered for hire as a stand alone item for upwards of £150, we offer it for free as an incentive to those seeking to hire a large chocolate fountain, then reel them in !!!! It costs us NOTHING to run, cleaning couldn't be easier, 10 minutes fresh water flushing through it then 5 minutes pumping a steriliser through, we have hired it out on it's own and it is booked for various Parties in the run up to Christmas. These will cover the cost of it and it will still have 6 months warranty on it.

Yep we are still using the catering trailer, only now as the Summer season is over we are concentrating on "Event catering", we've been booked, along with others, to attend a BBC live outside broadcast event with a projected footfall of 10,000+ ,sod the burgers and bacon butties that day , "the rest" can have them and we are taking along a hot dessert that is quick to make and unless you have been to the USA probably something you haven't seen before, why cater the same as the rest when lot's will want a dessert and ,with luck, I'll be the only one there providing them. Think outside the box. If my guestimates are correct we should be in line for profits of around £2500 on the day after pitch fees,stock,gas and Casual payments Etc; even if it pours down and we go home with loads of stock it has a 12 month shelf life and is easily stored. Beats having a freezer full of ice cream or burgers :cool:

So what else have we achieved? Thank God the weather was kind. We agreed to do lots of Charity events , Village fayres, Schools, AGE UK, Help 4 Heroes amongst others, we donated between 25 and 40% of the takings after expenses to the charities and have donated £100s and £100s, at the last one we came away with nearly £400 for 4 hours "work" and it could have been more if the rain had held off for another hour. We've been rebooked by many for next year before we left this years event. We've also been booked to attend a large charity auction / Dinner night by a large High Street Bank for next weekend, they asked for 10% of the takings and I'm not going to argue, only chance I'll ever get of seeing the Tax I paid the Government and they gave to the Bank to bail them out.

We are riding the wave in an Ocean of recession, when the economic climate changes we will still ride it, Fathers of Brides will still want to see their daughter have the best day they can, mums and dads will still pop their hand in their pocket for a quid or two for a Candy floss, and like the pennies the pounds add up.

We have more and more irons in the fire. We will get bigger , we will get better.

The recession has worked in our favour manufacturers of concession equipment have lowered prices to keep stock moving, we can make savings of 20% on earlier this year.

The dream of a few weeks off to sail over the Bay of Biscay ? Forget it this year toooooo busy . Instead I treated myself to an old Velocette Venom to do up on my days off, I'll never be able to ride again but I still love bikes so hey why not?

Oh and by the way, it wasn't only me who got huffy about the Government intervention on where Charity money donated by the Public for all former Servicemen and women went. The RBL has now decided to retract the decision made regarding funding and a modified system is now in place whereby ALL former Service personnel can apply for funding.

Six months ago I was seriously on my uppers and desperate to make it work, people were saying forget it, not a chance, not a hope in hell. Just goes to show if you have faith in yourself and your ideas and can get people onside it can be achieved.

One motto that made me realise what I had to do was on the front page of a typically American publication, provided from an equipment manufacturer. "Recession Hell !!! Sell, sell, sell............" best thing an Americans ever said.

Sorry the syntax and grammar were everywhere, bit tired, just thought I'd give you an update.

Any of you out there with a dream or an idea, sit your bum down get a cuppa and think long and hard, don't just think the good ,think "What if?" and if you come back to yourself with " This is a bloody good idea" throw it to the lions on here, if they come back to you with negatives see if you can make them positives, people see things from different angles, whatever they say think it through, if they are right hold your hands up and see if you can find something else, if they are wrong dig your bloody heels in and strive to achieve what you want.

To all the former subscribers, thank you , even for the negative ones, yes even the ones the contributors removed, because knowing I was right and you were wrong made me even more determined.

To anyone looking for help, good luck, times are still hard but better times are coming, someone out there may just be able to lend a helping hand.

[Chris Ashdown]

Bloody good show, glad it's worked out for you and admire your get up and go

With forums you get many negative answers as well as positive ones, you will probably find the negative ones are not really ment in a negative way but just pointing to things you may not have considered or pitfalls others have experienced, many start-up companies do look through rose tinted glasses and few forum members have any real experience in most fields apart from their own

Your charity is great but dont forget as you get larger you owe a great amount of reserves to protect your employees from the ups and downs of business which can be quite a challenge

[fionak288]

Hi Chocolate Fountain Man, I thought this might be useful for your query.

Experian® has just launched SME Finance Finder, a free online service for SMEs designed to match their particular finance needs to the most appropriate brokers and lenders.

SME Finance Finder – the first service of its kind in the UK – allows SMEs to tap into a wide pool of potential finance options, including mortgages, invoice finance and asset finance. It saves valuable time and introduces SMEs to a range of finance options and providers that they may not have been aware of.

It enhances the chances of the application being submitted to the right provider for the right type of funding and therefore being accepted first time. It ensures the business is matched with the provider and form of finance most suited to the applicant, and that the application is completed and presented appropriately to the lender.

For more information, please visit experian.co.uk/financefinder

[Somecamel]

Hi Chocolate Fountain Man, I thought this might be useful for your query.

Experian® has just launched SME Finance Finder, a free online service for SMEs designed to match their particular finance needs to the most appropriate brokers and lenders.

SME Finance Finder – the first service of its kind in the UK – allows SMEs to tap into a wide pool of potential finance options, including mortgages, invoice finance and asset finance. It saves valuable time and introduces SMEs to a range of finance options and providers that they may not have been aware of.

It enhances the chances of the application being submitted to the right provider for the right type of funding and therefore being accepted first time. It ensures the business is matched with the provider and form of finance most suited to the applicant, and that the application is completed and presented appropriately to the lender.

For more information, please visit experian.co.uk/financefinder

Just looks like a lead generation site to me

[VanillaL]

Hi CFM
Have been reading your thread with interest and just wanted to say really well done for sticking with your ideas and hope things get better and better for you and your business good luck VL